| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" 09:22 - Jul 9 with 10001 views | StokieBlue |
In the interest of balance and to counter some of the more cherry-picked claims on here over the last few days, here is an open letter in the Lancet, published yesterday by scientists from across a number of organisations advising the government.
"Mass Infection is not an option: we must do more to protect our young"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01589-0/fullt
Some bits for those that don't want to read it:
"We believe this decision is dangerous and premature."
"We believe the government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause plans to abandon mitigations on July 19, 2021."
"The link between infection and death might have been weakened, but it has not been broken, and infection can still cause substantial morbidity in both acute and long-term illness."
"First, unmitigated transmission will disproportionately affect unvaccinated children and young people who have already suffered greatly. Official UK Government data show that as of July 4, 2021, 51% of the total UK population have been fully vaccinated and 68% have been partially vaccinated. Even assuming that approximately 20% of unvaccinated people are protected by previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, this still leaves more than 17 million people with no protection against COVID-19. Given this, and the high transmissibility of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant, exponential growth will probably continue until millions more people are infected, leaving hundreds of thousands of people with long-term illness and disability.4 This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come."
"Third, preliminary modelling data9 suggest the government's strategy provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants. This would place all at risk, including those already vaccinated, within the UK and globally."
"Fourth, this strategy will have a significant impact on health services and exhausted health-care staff who have not yet recovered from previous infection waves. The link between cases and hospital admissions has not been broken, and rising case numbers will inevitably lead to increased hospital admissions, applying further pressure at a time when millions of people are waiting for medical procedures and routine care."
"Instead, the government should delay complete re-opening until everyone, including adolescents, have been offered vaccination and uptake is high, and until mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation (through investment in CO2 monitors and air filtration devices) and spacing (eg, by reducing class sizes), are in place in schools. Until then, public health measures must include those called for by WHO (universal mask wearing in indoor spaces, even for those vaccinated), the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE), the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (ventilation and air filtration), and Independent SAGE (effective border quarantine; test, trace isolate, and support). This will ensure that everyone is protected and make it much less likely that we will need further restrictions or lockdowns in the autumn."
A number of people have said that in general scientists are behind the opening and it's simply not true. The WHO have said it's unprecedented to be opening up in this way with cases in a steep rise and that no other country in the world has reduced restrictions in this scenario.
They also feel that proceeding as we are will make it more likely to have lockdowns and restrictions in the Autumn (and by extension Winter).
SB |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:35 - Jul 9 with 1560 views | StokieBlue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:24 - Jul 9 by hype313 |
Woe betide you.
"but let’s not pretend we are not still restricted in a way we would have found difficult to believe just 18 months ago."
Yeah a pandemic came along mate. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:27]
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Paz is one of the few people who has been on a foreign holiday during all this.
SB | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:36 - Jul 9 with 1559 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:31 - Jul 9 by chrismakin |
True
I just find it incredible that some people would rather thousands Die, so that they can get on a plane and lay in the same sun they can get laying in their back garden. |
I've not seen him say that on this thread. If he's said it somewhere else then fair enough.
And you know that those two things are not really the same. We've all bemoaned things that we wish we could do, I'm sure. I'd love to get on a plane and go away to somewhere nice right now if I could. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:39 - Jul 9 with 1533 views | Ryorry |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:48 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue |
Even then the worry is that natural infections don't seem to be giving as reliable immunity as vaccinations.
SB |
I know it was found to be relatively short term & not particularly good back in the early days of the pandemic - is there any more up-to-date research that you've come across? |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:46 - Jul 9 with 1524 views | J2BLUE |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:36 - Jul 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
I've not seen him say that on this thread. If he's said it somewhere else then fair enough.
And you know that those two things are not really the same. We've all bemoaned things that we wish we could do, I'm sure. I'd love to get on a plane and go away to somewhere nice right now if I could. |
Can you make it somewhere with no internet connection? |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:01 - Jul 9 with 1505 views | NewcyBlue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:31 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
That’s not what those comments are saying. I think most people now agree that zero Covid is impossible. It’s now a question of balance between levels of Covid circulation and restrictions. Some feel that balance is in a different place to others. To just shout down anyone whose view on that doesn’t exactly align with one’s own as ‘ignorant’ strikes me as slightly hypocritical. |
You freely admitted that your threshold for deaths due to Covid is higher than that of other people.
Just because it makes you look like the turd that you are, you’re now trying to weasel your way around it.
Nobody cares. Everyone has been able to see you for what you are for a long time on here. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:01 - Jul 9 with 1504 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:46 - Jul 9 by J2BLUE |
Can you make it somewhere with no internet connection? |
I don't believe that defending someone in the context of a single thread warrants being removed from the Internet. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:23 - Jul 9 with 1466 views | 26_Paz |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:31 - Jul 9 by chrismakin |
True
I just find it incredible that some people would rather thousands Die, so that they can get on a plane and lay in the same sun they can get laying in their back garden. |
I don’t have a back garden. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:30 - Jul 9 with 1460 views | footers |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:01 - Jul 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
I don't believe that defending someone in the context of a single thread warrants being removed from the Internet. |
It isn't a single thread; it's months and months of the same tripe.
Why you are trying to isolate it to one thread is beyond me, but there ya go. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:30 - Jul 9 with 1461 views | blue62 |
Is there any stats about the number of new infections that have been double jabbed and likewise the deaths, were they all non vaccinated or single jabs.
Be interesting to know the % of the 30,000+ cases or the 100+ hospital admissions were protected or not.
I’m all for opening up and relying on us all to be sensible rather than be dictated to by the government. |  | | |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:32 - Jul 9 with 1457 views | J2BLUE |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:23 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
I don’t have a back garden. |
We do have parks and beaches in the UK though.
People booking foreign holidays has surged.
Do you think that's appropriate? Please don't give me ideological BS about freedom either. If we get a new variant completely resistant to the vaccines we are back to square one. You do get this right? | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:32 - Jul 9 with 1454 views | footers |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:30 - Jul 9 by blue62 |
Is there any stats about the number of new infections that have been double jabbed and likewise the deaths, were they all non vaccinated or single jabs.
Be interesting to know the % of the 30,000+ cases or the 100+ hospital admissions were protected or not.
I’m all for opening up and relying on us all to be sensible rather than be dictated to by the government. |
"Relying on us to be sensible"
Have you been living under a rock since last year? | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:33 - Jul 9 with 1444 views | 26_Paz |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:32 - Jul 9 by J2BLUE |
We do have parks and beaches in the UK though.
People booking foreign holidays has surged.
Do you think that's appropriate? Please don't give me ideological BS about freedom either. If we get a new variant completely resistant to the vaccines we are back to square one. You do get this right? |
As soon as I’ve had my second vaccine in two weeks time I will be joining that surge in bookings! | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:35 - Jul 9 with 1450 views | blue62 |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:32 - Jul 9 by footers |
"Relying on us to be sensible"
Have you been living under a rock since last year? |
Aren’t you then? | | | |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:40 - Jul 9 with 1435 views | footers |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:35 - Jul 9 by blue62 |
Aren’t you then? |
Been sensible? Yes.
Living with NHS staff meant restricting my behaviour so I wasn't a big vector in covid transmission. Some others, like the 'Paz Man', have been doing everything they like without a worry, including holidays and pub crawls in the middle of the pandemic, because 'mental health' or some other b0llocks.
It's selfishness, pure and simple. The same type of person who wouldn't put up blackout curtains because it was an inconvenience, and yet they call themselves patriots. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:46 - Jul 9 with 1422 views | J2BLUE |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:33 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
As soon as I’ve had my second vaccine in two weeks time I will be joining that surge in bookings! |
You ignored the question.
If we do get a new variant, don't come on here bitching that we're locked down again.
Covid weariness is not science. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:47 - Jul 9 with 1418 views | Ryorry |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:16 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
To travel
Go to a nightclub
Go to various sporting events (euro tickets cancelled etc)
To enjoy a beer without being frog marched to a table and following arrows on the floor
I agree current restriction levels are far from unbearable but let’s not pretend we are not still restricted in a way we would have found difficult to believe just 18 months ago. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:19]
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Tbh Paz, if I were you I'd be considering that I was quite lucky to still be alive, not ill with long covid, still working & partnered up. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:58 - Jul 9 with 1401 views | NewcyBlue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:33 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
As soon as I’ve had my second vaccine in two weeks time I will be joining that surge in bookings! |
Don’t forget to pay a visit to any elderly relatives you have. Since you’re not bothered about anyone else’s… | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:03 - Jul 9 with 1394 views | Seablu |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:33 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
As soon as I’ve had my second vaccine in two weeks time I will be joining that surge in bookings! |
You exist purely for self gratification.
As has been pointed out ad-infinitum, you are an odious and wretched little individual.
But then you are well aware of that already. |  | | |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:09 - Jul 9 with 1382 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:30 - Jul 9 by footers |
It isn't a single thread; it's months and months of the same tripe.
Why you are trying to isolate it to one thread is beyond me, but there ya go. |
I don't come here and read things properly enough to keep track of what different people have said, so I honestly have no idea what he has said. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:11 - Jul 9 with 1380 views | Seablu |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:47 - Jul 9 by Ryorry |
Tbh Paz, if I were you I'd be considering that I was quite lucky to still be alive, not ill with long covid, still working & partnered up. |
He mops out trains, has a pretend girlfriend & no moral compass.
It’s like reasoning with a gallstone. | | | |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:12 - Jul 9 with 1374 views | chrismakin |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:23 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
I don’t have a back garden. |
Parks then. Plenty of spaces :) |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:12 - Jul 9 with 1378 views | Seablu |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:09 - Jul 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
I don't come here and read things properly enough to keep track of what different people have said, so I honestly have no idea what he has said. |
Have a little look at his back catalogue.
Lad’s a wrong ‘un. | | | |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:24 - Jul 9 with 1367 views | HARRY10 |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:30 - Jul 9 by blue62 |
Is there any stats about the number of new infections that have been double jabbed and likewise the deaths, were they all non vaccinated or single jabs.
Be interesting to know the % of the 30,000+ cases or the 100+ hospital admissions were protected or not.
I’m all for opening up and relying on us all to be sensible rather than be dictated to by the government. |
'dictated to by the government '
rather a silly and emotive comment
still in the light of that idiocy, lets scrap the drink driving laws, in fact maybe the police as well while we are at it, even the armed forces
after all, we can certainly rely" on us all to be sensible"  |  | | |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:47 - Jul 9 with 1337 views | blue62 |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 18:40 - Jul 9 by footers |
Been sensible? Yes.
Living with NHS staff meant restricting my behaviour so I wasn't a big vector in covid transmission. Some others, like the 'Paz Man', have been doing everything they like without a worry, including holidays and pub crawls in the middle of the pandemic, because 'mental health' or some other b0llocks.
It's selfishness, pure and simple. The same type of person who wouldn't put up blackout curtains because it was an inconvenience, and yet they call themselves patriots. |
There are always idiots, but maybe I am ever hopeful that the majority of people will still proceed with caution.
I've been careful, stuck to the rules. I lost my dad last March and I dont want my mum to go the same way. | | | |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 20:11 - Jul 9 with 1303 views | HARRY10 |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 19:47 - Jul 9 by blue62 |
There are always idiots, but maybe I am ever hopeful that the majority of people will still proceed with caution.
I've been careful, stuck to the rules. I lost my dad last March and I dont want my mum to go the same way. |
I am sorry for your loss
the evidence shows that there will be enough who cannot think beyond their own stupidity - hence the previous lockdowns
it is not a good idea to suggest otherwise | | | |
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