| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" 09:22 - Jul 9 with 9990 views | StokieBlue |
In the interest of balance and to counter some of the more cherry-picked claims on here over the last few days, here is an open letter in the Lancet, published yesterday by scientists from across a number of organisations advising the government.
"Mass Infection is not an option: we must do more to protect our young"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01589-0/fullt
Some bits for those that don't want to read it:
"We believe this decision is dangerous and premature."
"We believe the government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause plans to abandon mitigations on July 19, 2021."
"The link between infection and death might have been weakened, but it has not been broken, and infection can still cause substantial morbidity in both acute and long-term illness."
"First, unmitigated transmission will disproportionately affect unvaccinated children and young people who have already suffered greatly. Official UK Government data show that as of July 4, 2021, 51% of the total UK population have been fully vaccinated and 68% have been partially vaccinated. Even assuming that approximately 20% of unvaccinated people are protected by previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, this still leaves more than 17 million people with no protection against COVID-19. Given this, and the high transmissibility of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant, exponential growth will probably continue until millions more people are infected, leaving hundreds of thousands of people with long-term illness and disability.4 This strategy risks creating a generation left with chronic health problems and disability, the personal and economic impacts of which might be felt for decades to come."
"Third, preliminary modelling data9 suggest the government's strategy provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants. This would place all at risk, including those already vaccinated, within the UK and globally."
"Fourth, this strategy will have a significant impact on health services and exhausted health-care staff who have not yet recovered from previous infection waves. The link between cases and hospital admissions has not been broken, and rising case numbers will inevitably lead to increased hospital admissions, applying further pressure at a time when millions of people are waiting for medical procedures and routine care."
"Instead, the government should delay complete re-opening until everyone, including adolescents, have been offered vaccination and uptake is high, and until mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation (through investment in CO2 monitors and air filtration devices) and spacing (eg, by reducing class sizes), are in place in schools. Until then, public health measures must include those called for by WHO (universal mask wearing in indoor spaces, even for those vaccinated), the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE), the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (ventilation and air filtration), and Independent SAGE (effective border quarantine; test, trace isolate, and support). This will ensure that everyone is protected and make it much less likely that we will need further restrictions or lockdowns in the autumn."
A number of people have said that in general scientists are behind the opening and it's simply not true. The WHO have said it's unprecedented to be opening up in this way with cases in a steep rise and that no other country in the world has reduced restrictions in this scenario.
They also feel that proceeding as we are will make it more likely to have lockdowns and restrictions in the Autumn (and by extension Winter).
SB |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:49 - Jul 9 with 739 views | 26_Paz |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:27 - Jul 9 by jaykay |
i expect the young from 1939 to 1945 wanted to surrender so they could start living their lives again. |
They wouldn’t have been able to live their lives in that scenario. As people from countries that were occupied by the nazis. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:53 - Jul 9 with 742 views | footers |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:49 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
They wouldn’t have been able to live their lives in that scenario. As people from countries that were occupied by the nazis. |
But you were happy enough to let that generation die because of your selfishness. Some patriot you are. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:58 - Jul 9 with 728 views | bluelagos |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:35 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue |
I don't have the specific new papers but Ferguson has said it could be 200,000 cases per day in August (and 100,000 in July) but for Javid keeps saying 100,000 by the end of August which is pretty disingenuous.
"Health secretary Sajid Javid warned that infections could rise to more than 100,000 cases a day in August after the UK relaxes COVID restrictions.
However Professor Neil Ferguson, an epidemiologist from Imperial College London who sits on the government's New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), says daily coronavirus numbers could be as high as 200,000."
SB |
Ta.
Will wait til monday and check them out then. Agree with your comments about Javid. When he said it, given the cases were doubling every 9 days, and the way it was presented as if it was the "peak" did strike me as utter bollox from him. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:00 - Jul 9 with 714 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:56 - Jul 9 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I have no idea who has put that leaflet together but Isaiah 53:4-5 reads:
"4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed."
It is a prophecy about Jesus' suffering to pay the penalty of death for sin. How anyone can interpret that as "You have been vaccinated by Christ. His blood protects from all!" I do not know! Whoever has produced it has no respect for the Bible which warns strongly against making stuff up in order to claim God's authority. |
Isaiah is OT, surely it is BC...
Edit: I see my error. Sorry ☺ [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 16:04]
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:06 - Jul 9 with 687 views | 26_Paz |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 15:53 - Jul 9 by footers |
But you were happy enough to let that generation die because of your selfishness. Some patriot you are. |
Erm, no I wasn’t / aren’t. They are all double vaccinated now. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:07 - Jul 9 with 691 views | footers |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:06 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
Erm, no I wasn’t / aren’t. They are all double vaccinated now. |
Yeah, now. The ones that are left thanks to the government you voted for and people's selfish attitudes. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:21 - Jul 9 with 663 views | NewcyBlue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:06 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
Erm, no I wasn’t / aren’t. They are all double vaccinated now. |
Two sides of the Covid argument by 26_Paz 11 Feb 2021 12:43It will essentially boil down to that at some point. Covid will kill an amount of people every year going forwards (like flu does). At some point in the future we will have to decide when to open up and accept an amount of deaths as inevitable.
Two sides of the Covid argument by 26_Paz 11 Feb 2021 12:54It’s exactly that. I just consider the point at which we would accept x amount as being sooner than you. It’s fine to disagree, we are not going to all have exactly the same opinions.
You’ve been happy to have deaths as long as you can get back out to having pints… |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:28 - Jul 9 with 646 views | StokieBlue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:06 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
Erm, no I wasn’t / aren’t. They are all double vaccinated now. |
"You can't put a price on freedom".
SB | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:31 - Jul 9 with 629 views | 26_Paz |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:21 - Jul 9 by NewcyBlue |
Two sides of the Covid argument by 26_Paz 11 Feb 2021 12:43It will essentially boil down to that at some point. Covid will kill an amount of people every year going forwards (like flu does). At some point in the future we will have to decide when to open up and accept an amount of deaths as inevitable.
Two sides of the Covid argument by 26_Paz 11 Feb 2021 12:54It’s exactly that. I just consider the point at which we would accept x amount as being sooner than you. It’s fine to disagree, we are not going to all have exactly the same opinions.
You’ve been happy to have deaths as long as you can get back out to having pints… |
That’s not what those comments are saying. I think most people now agree that zero Covid is impossible. It’s now a question of balance between levels of Covid circulation and restrictions. Some feel that balance is in a different place to others. To just shout down anyone whose view on that doesn’t exactly align with one’s own as ‘ignorant’ strikes me as slightly hypocritical. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:33 - Jul 9 with 626 views | chrismakin |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:31 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
That’s not what those comments are saying. I think most people now agree that zero Covid is impossible. It’s now a question of balance between levels of Covid circulation and restrictions. Some feel that balance is in a different place to others. To just shout down anyone whose view on that doesn’t exactly align with one’s own as ‘ignorant’ strikes me as slightly hypocritical. |
People, Government, Public etc just need to realise it is a threat that we have to deal with as a country, if that's regular lockdowns, so beit, go with the data, Just like Australia have done.
Put things in place so that everyone can do it together, |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:35 - Jul 9 with 614 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:31 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
That’s not what those comments are saying. I think most people now agree that zero Covid is impossible. It’s now a question of balance between levels of Covid circulation and restrictions. Some feel that balance is in a different place to others. To just shout down anyone whose view on that doesn’t exactly align with one’s own as ‘ignorant’ strikes me as slightly hypocritical. |
"Ignorant" would be to repeatedly fail to follow scientific advice, have to row back on your position and yet never learn from your mistakes.
I think you need to take a look at Government policy before throwing around the term "ignorant". |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:39 - Jul 9 with 597 views | StokieBlue |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:28 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue |
"You can't put a price on freedom".
SB |
Why have you downvoted this Paz?
Do you deny saying that?
For context, you said that before many had been vaccinated (certainly not double-dosed). I'm not especially keen on the revisionism going on here.
Perhaps now is the time to say it was a misguided comment which you've thought about and wish to rescind.
SB | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:03 - Jul 9 with 570 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 14:45 - Jul 9 by Swansea_Blue |
"A few patients we are caring for still deny Covid exists, even as we strap oxygen masks to their faces."
WTAF? |
If anything, this pandemic really has shown a lack of critical thinking and the fact that so many people believe the first thing they read on social media. The amount of outright lies and conspiracy theories that make it into communities and are re-ignited time and time again because "my mate barry told me" have caused this. It is shocking. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:04 - Jul 9 with 565 views | chrismakin |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:03 - Jul 9 by JammyDodgerrr |
If anything, this pandemic really has shown a lack of critical thinking and the fact that so many people believe the first thing they read on social media. The amount of outright lies and conspiracy theories that make it into communities and are re-ignited time and time again because "my mate barry told me" have caused this. It is shocking. |
Social media is to blame
You've got the likes of Katie Hopkins making Tik Tok videos on how she refused to get the vaccine as she trusts her body to keep her safe and by keeping herself healthy she's ok. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:07 - Jul 9 with 547 views | 26_Paz |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 16:39 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue |
Why have you downvoted this Paz?
Do you deny saying that?
For context, you said that before many had been vaccinated (certainly not double-dosed). I'm not especially keen on the revisionism going on here.
Perhaps now is the time to say it was a misguided comment which you've thought about and wish to rescind.
SB |
Down voted for excessive sarcasm.
I don’t deny saying it.
I can’t remember exactly when I said it, I.e. were cases falling or rising etc but as I’ve explained my view now is that we should be looking to move towards greater freedoms. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:09 - Jul 9 with 549 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 13:33 - Jul 9 by ElderGrizzly |
Basically this.
They've put money over health now, even though the NHS is already overwhelmed and it is only the summer.
It will end in another tragedy sadly |
So they are literally putting money over things as absolutely unthinkable and devastating as the possibility of vaccine-resistant mutations developing.
F*** me, that is appalling. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:10 - Jul 9 with 545 views | chrismakin |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:07 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
Down voted for excessive sarcasm.
I don’t deny saying it.
I can’t remember exactly when I said it, I.e. were cases falling or rising etc but as I’ve explained my view now is that we should be looking to move towards greater freedoms. |
what freedom haven't you had the past 2 months? | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:16 - Jul 9 with 520 views | 26_Paz |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:10 - Jul 9 by chrismakin |
what freedom haven't you had the past 2 months? |
To travel
Go to a nightclub
Go to various sporting events (euro tickets cancelled etc)
To enjoy a beer without being frog marched to a table and following arrows on the floor
I agree current restriction levels are far from unbearable but let’s not pretend we are not still restricted in a way we would have found difficult to believe just 18 months ago. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:19]
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:23 - Jul 9 with 504 views | chrismakin |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:16 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
To travel
Go to a nightclub
Go to various sporting events (euro tickets cancelled etc)
To enjoy a beer without being frog marched to a table and following arrows on the floor
I agree current restriction levels are far from unbearable but let’s not pretend we are not still restricted in a way we would have found difficult to believe just 18 months ago. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:19]
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Travel where, you can go where ever you please in the UK
stick the radio on, turn your lights off have a dance
That's why TV coverage is in place for times when you can't be there
Does standing up make the beer taste any different?
It's just laughable how the above really effects you
Spend a week hidden under your living room table, picture random bombs dropping down all around you for 4 years
Or, not having any food to eat, or barely any water to drink
Think of those being trafficked around the world, abused
People who were and are still slaves in various forms
and then compare how your life has been worse because you don't like drinking a beer at a table. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:24 - Jul 9 with 500 views | hype313 |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:16 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
To travel
Go to a nightclub
Go to various sporting events (euro tickets cancelled etc)
To enjoy a beer without being frog marched to a table and following arrows on the floor
I agree current restriction levels are far from unbearable but let’s not pretend we are not still restricted in a way we would have found difficult to believe just 18 months ago. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:19]
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Woe betide you.
"but let’s not pretend we are not still restricted in a way we would have found difficult to believe just 18 months ago."
Yeah a pandemic came along mate. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:27]
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:28 - Jul 9 with 492 views | Ryorry |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:04 - Jul 9 by chrismakin |
Social media is to blame
You've got the likes of Katie Hopkins making Tik Tok videos on how she refused to get the vaccine as she trusts her body to keep her safe and by keeping herself healthy she's ok. |
You don't have to read or be on social media to arrive at that position. It's exactly where one of my friends (in her 70s) is, and she's literally never seen or been on any social media. |  |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:29 - Jul 9 with 492 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
If things like foreign travel and going to nightclubs are important to Paz then you can't criticise him for complaining about having gone without those freedoms and luxuries for so long.
Comparing it to other potential problems in life really achieves nothing. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:30]
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:31 - Jul 9 with 475 views | chrismakin |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:29 - Jul 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
If things like foreign travel and going to nightclubs are important to Paz then you can't criticise him for complaining about having gone without those freedoms and luxuries for so long.
Comparing it to other potential problems in life really achieves nothing. [Post edited 9 Jul 2021 17:30]
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True
I just find it incredible that some people would rather thousands Die, so that they can get on a plane and lay in the same sun they can get laying in their back garden. | |
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| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:33 - Jul 9 with 467 views | footers |
| Open letter in the Lancet: "Mass infection is not an option" on 17:07 - Jul 9 by 26_Paz |
Down voted for excessive sarcasm.
I don’t deny saying it.
I can’t remember exactly when I said it, I.e. were cases falling or rising etc but as I’ve explained my view now is that we should be looking to move towards greater freedoms. |
It doesn't particularly matter when you said it since you've had the same view throughout the pandemic.
Selfish, irresponsible, stupid - that basically sums up your 'position' on covid. | |
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