| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September 17:20 - Jul 19 with 14267 views | ElderGrizzly |
For large events, such as football.
So vaccine proof/testing here to stay at Portman Road for a while yet.
Our understanding is a test will be allowed for exemptions, so this isn't quite correct. [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 17:22]
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:18 - Jul 19 with 1484 views | xrayspecs |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:10 - Jul 19 by StokieBlue |
That's not a scientific reason though, if there is a risk in September there is equal risk now. The rules will be the same and the variant will likely be the same.
You're basically saying it's fine to open up now and because the NHS has capacity not but later - that's not ideal for the people who end up in hospital before September.
Let's just finally put to bed that the government are actually using the science and the data.
SB |
It is a scientific reason.
There is a risk now, I agree. It may be higher (as the level of infection may be at a higher level) or lower (due to the impact of vaccinations) in September, we simply do not know.
The difference is that the NHS is better able to cope now than it will be in the Autumn, when we know that spare capacity is much lower.
It is science and it is data.
People are being given choices. You can go clubbing now, but you need to understand the risk. In September we are changing our approach, so that the NHS is not overwhelmed. [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 19:22]
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:19 - Jul 19 with 1487 views | JamestownPrince |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 17:51 - Jul 19 by DanTheMan |
I'm confused, which religions would have an issue with the vaccines? I'm not aware of any that have had objections to it, at least among the Abrahamic religions and also Hinduism (I think). |
Ultra Right wing Christians - on one side the "Latin Mass only brigade" (Jesus never spoke in Latin!) that thinks the Pope Francis is in Mortal Sin and as the vaccine is based on work from an aborted fetus 60 years ago, anyone who takes it is going straight to "The lake of fire" - the Body of Christ can only be given on the tongue and not in the hand and everyone must drink out the same infected cup - this is a small % of Catholics (a massive total of ZERO teachers I work / have worked with with have said they believe this (I'm a Prod going back to be working in a Catholic School)
On the other side are Trump supporters, not the educated but the ....White Lives are far more important "Sola Scripture" Protestants - the ones where everything in the Bible is literal, all Rock music is played for the Devil, you should stone the bloke next door as his girlfriend is separated from a wife beater and its her fault, God hates Fags and any vaccine injection is the "Mark of the Beast" and faith alone will cure you.
Please get a jab if you can....... if not read on
But please if you don't get the vaccine - just have a regular test, its free, takes 10 minutes and if it allows me to have a beer / watch football and allow my 84 year old father to die peacefully in 6 months time from Leukemia, rather than me passing Covid on to him and he dies alone in a hospital.
Balls in your half (hopefully not punted up aimlessly by Chambers) | | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:21 - Jul 19 with 1467 views | xrayspecs |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:14 - Jul 19 by StokieBlue |
Their data maybe but not the majority of the modelled data.
It's a ridiculous policy.
SB |
The modelled data is presented to the government, who then decide how to proceed.
The modelled scenarios have a high degree of uncertainty.
The govt (of any colour) then need to decide what they are going to do. | | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:21 - Jul 19 with 1462 views | DanTheMan |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:19 - Jul 19 by JamestownPrince |
Ultra Right wing Christians - on one side the "Latin Mass only brigade" (Jesus never spoke in Latin!) that thinks the Pope Francis is in Mortal Sin and as the vaccine is based on work from an aborted fetus 60 years ago, anyone who takes it is going straight to "The lake of fire" - the Body of Christ can only be given on the tongue and not in the hand and everyone must drink out the same infected cup - this is a small % of Catholics (a massive total of ZERO teachers I work / have worked with with have said they believe this (I'm a Prod going back to be working in a Catholic School)
On the other side are Trump supporters, not the educated but the ....White Lives are far more important "Sola Scripture" Protestants - the ones where everything in the Bible is literal, all Rock music is played for the Devil, you should stone the bloke next door as his girlfriend is separated from a wife beater and its her fault, God hates Fags and any vaccine injection is the "Mark of the Beast" and faith alone will cure you.
Please get a jab if you can....... if not read on
But please if you don't get the vaccine - just have a regular test, its free, takes 10 minutes and if it allows me to have a beer / watch football and allow my 84 year old father to die peacefully in 6 months time from Leukemia, rather than me passing Covid on to him and he dies alone in a hospital.
Balls in your half (hopefully not punted up aimlessly by Chambers) |
Can't say I'm too surprised that it would be the extremists that are upset about it, as they tend to get upset about everything and their literalism tends to only be literal when they dislike something. |  |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:23 - Jul 19 with 1453 views | EddyJ |
Good move from the government.
I don't want to risk having un-vaccinated people near me, unless they have a valid medical exemption.
Getting a vaccination is a civic duty to protect those around you who are vulnerable or unable to get a vaccination themselves. | | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:32 - Jul 19 with 1426 views | Dubtractor |
All I know, is that right now there are anti vaxxers and covid conspiracy types absolutely losing their sh1t about this right now. |  |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:36 - Jul 19 with 1404 views | MattinLondon |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:32 - Jul 19 by Dubtractor |
All I know, is that right now there are anti vaxxers and covid conspiracy types absolutely losing their sh1t about this right now. |
Theres an upside to everything then. |  | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:38 - Jul 19 with 1401 views | StokieBlue |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:21 - Jul 19 by xrayspecs |
The modelled data is presented to the government, who then decide how to proceed.
The modelled scenarios have a high degree of uncertainty.
The govt (of any colour) then need to decide what they are going to do. |
Which is this case is ignore most of the modelling data and lie about the number of probable cases.
Javid has said 100,000 by the end of August so many times to try and make it fact but as it stands we are looking at that in less than 11 days.
They aren't following the data, they are doing what is driven by their ideology.
SB |  |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:43 - Jul 19 with 1379 views | StokieBlue |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:18 - Jul 19 by xrayspecs |
It is a scientific reason.
There is a risk now, I agree. It may be higher (as the level of infection may be at a higher level) or lower (due to the impact of vaccinations) in September, we simply do not know.
The difference is that the NHS is better able to cope now than it will be in the Autumn, when we know that spare capacity is much lower.
It is science and it is data.
People are being given choices. You can go clubbing now, but you need to understand the risk. In September we are changing our approach, so that the NHS is not overwhelmed. [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 19:22]
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It's not, it's playing to their supporters in order to claim they opened up for a bit before being forced back into restrictions because they opened up at a time of hugely increasing cases.
1200 scientists signed a letter calling it an immoral experiment, the WHO have condemned it, the modellers have contradicting the governments prediction of the number of cases and no other country in the world has opened up with cases rising like this. We only need to look at Holland to see where this could go.
The only data you are citing is the level of load on the NHS, there are other things to consider as well.
SB | |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:45 - Jul 19 with 1382 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
This is already on page 3 and I’ve not read every reply so apologies if I’ve repeating someone else..
There’s most likely 2 reasons for this:
1: Tory supporting mates of Boris and co will get a contract to create, manage, operate (or whatever term they want to use) the Covid Passport scheme
2: it’s a stick being used to persuade the younger generation to get the jab
It can’t really be enforced. Pubs and bars (some of which also stay open til 3am) don’t have to do the same. And are we really asking bouncers to act as some sort of Border control? Let’s be honest we can all think of occasions where bouncers have turned a blind eye to all sorts so there won’t be any rigorous checks and no one will be able to effectively monitor that anyway |  | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:48 - Jul 19 with 1357 views | xrayspecs |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:38 - Jul 19 by StokieBlue |
Which is this case is ignore most of the modelling data and lie about the number of probable cases.
Javid has said 100,000 by the end of August so many times to try and make it fact but as it stands we are looking at that in less than 11 days.
They aren't following the data, they are doing what is driven by their ideology.
SB |
You are welcome to your opinion, but try not to present it as fact.
A few points regarding the uncertainty
- cases in England jumped significantly during the Euros, especially around England games. Cases have been falling in recent days.
- Scotland, Wales and Ireland have not seen the same upward trajectory over recent weeks as England.
- So while trend may be upward, recent data is very likely skewed by the football.
- While restrictions were lifted today, a lot of folk continue to observe social distancing rules/wear masks. I would expect this to continue
- Clubs/venues, including ITFC are introducing measures to mitigate risk.
My point is that it is more nuanced than you are claiming.
On the government, I am close to a lot of the modelling work and have some awareness of what is being discussed. It is more balanced, pragmatic and nuanced than you believe. | | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:51 - Jul 19 with 1341 views | WD19 |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:45 - Jul 19 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
This is already on page 3 and I’ve not read every reply so apologies if I’ve repeating someone else..
There’s most likely 2 reasons for this:
1: Tory supporting mates of Boris and co will get a contract to create, manage, operate (or whatever term they want to use) the Covid Passport scheme
2: it’s a stick being used to persuade the younger generation to get the jab
It can’t really be enforced. Pubs and bars (some of which also stay open til 3am) don’t have to do the same. And are we really asking bouncers to act as some sort of Border control? Let’s be honest we can all think of occasions where bouncers have turned a blind eye to all sorts so there won’t be any rigorous checks and no one will be able to effectively monitor that anyway |
The app already exists, so it is just point 2.
Would be a bold move to avoid vaccination in the hope that enough bouncers will consistently let you in to enough pubs to have a normal life in future.
Much easier to just get fkn jabbed and stop being a fkn bellend. |  | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:52 - Jul 19 with 1334 views | Digger77 |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:10 - Jul 19 by StokieBlue |
That's not a scientific reason though, if there is a risk in September there is equal risk now. The rules will be the same and the variant will likely be the same.
You're basically saying it's fine to open up now and because the NHS has capacity not but later - that's not ideal for the people who end up in hospital before September.
Let's just finally put to bed that the government are actually using the science and the data.
SB |
In the words of Tracy Chapman...
If not now, then when? | | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:53 - Jul 19 with 1328 views | xrayspecs |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:43 - Jul 19 by StokieBlue |
It's not, it's playing to their supporters in order to claim they opened up for a bit before being forced back into restrictions because they opened up at a time of hugely increasing cases.
1200 scientists signed a letter calling it an immoral experiment, the WHO have condemned it, the modellers have contradicting the governments prediction of the number of cases and no other country in the world has opened up with cases rising like this. We only need to look at Holland to see where this could go.
The only data you are citing is the level of load on the NHS, there are other things to consider as well.
SB |
It is playing to libertarians in their party, completely agree.
Boris language tonight was recognising that this may not be irreversible.
Lets just say that in a "normal year", the NHS struggles to get through winter without having to cancel other forms of healthcare. Until Covid has burnt out (2-3 years), winters are going to be very tough and the idea that there will not be some restrictions are far fetched.
However, it does not mean opening up now, while we can, is not a bad idea.
As you say, there is a lot of things to balance beyond NHS capacity, mental health etc.
It is and remains a balancing act. [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 19:56]
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:54 - Jul 19 with 1322 views | DanTheMan |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:48 - Jul 19 by xrayspecs |
You are welcome to your opinion, but try not to present it as fact.
A few points regarding the uncertainty
- cases in England jumped significantly during the Euros, especially around England games. Cases have been falling in recent days.
- Scotland, Wales and Ireland have not seen the same upward trajectory over recent weeks as England.
- So while trend may be upward, recent data is very likely skewed by the football.
- While restrictions were lifted today, a lot of folk continue to observe social distancing rules/wear masks. I would expect this to continue
- Clubs/venues, including ITFC are introducing measures to mitigate risk.
My point is that it is more nuanced than you are claiming.
On the government, I am close to a lot of the modelling work and have some awareness of what is being discussed. It is more balanced, pragmatic and nuanced than you believe. |
"cases in England jumped significantly during the Euros, especially around England games. Cases have been falling in recent days."
Where are you seeing the stats for this? The ones I can see on the Government website don't seem to back this up. | |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:56 - Jul 19 with 1302 views | WD19 |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:54 - Jul 19 by DanTheMan |
"cases in England jumped significantly during the Euros, especially around England games. Cases have been falling in recent days."
Where are you seeing the stats for this? The ones I can see on the Government website don't seem to back this up. |
It’s drivel. They were down today due to the usual weekend counting issues.
Will be hitting 60k later this week. | | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:57 - Jul 19 with 1293 views | Dyland |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:51 - Jul 19 by WD19 |
The app already exists, so it is just point 2.
Would be a bold move to avoid vaccination in the hope that enough bouncers will consistently let you in to enough pubs to have a normal life in future.
Much easier to just get fkn jabbed and stop being a fkn bellend. |
The app follows you about though.
Maybe there's a less invasive way of proving your jabs are up to date?
I'm a big vax n jab fan btw.
I am not a big fan of a track and trace app being used as a "passport" for anything.
I may have missed something though. Just saying, loike.
EDIT: Yeh yeh I know you can be traced through your phone no matter what, but that's only if the authorities are actively spying on you.
What are the GDPR implications here anyway?
I really need to keep up, and/or get out more/less [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 20:00]
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:58 - Jul 19 with 1288 views | homer_123 |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:48 - Jul 19 by xrayspecs |
You are welcome to your opinion, but try not to present it as fact.
A few points regarding the uncertainty
- cases in England jumped significantly during the Euros, especially around England games. Cases have been falling in recent days.
- Scotland, Wales and Ireland have not seen the same upward trajectory over recent weeks as England.
- So while trend may be upward, recent data is very likely skewed by the football.
- While restrictions were lifted today, a lot of folk continue to observe social distancing rules/wear masks. I would expect this to continue
- Clubs/venues, including ITFC are introducing measures to mitigate risk.
My point is that it is more nuanced than you are claiming.
On the government, I am close to a lot of the modelling work and have some awareness of what is being discussed. It is more balanced, pragmatic and nuanced than you believe. |
'....but try not to present it as fact.'
With the greatest respect - you've then followed that with:
- While restrictions were lifted today, a lot of folk continue to observe social distancing rules/wear masks. I would expect this to continue
That aside, Scotland was actually the first country to see an uplift in cases due to the Euros ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/30/surge-in-scottish-covid-cases-rais - that's Public Health Scotland).
Now, let's expand this scenario - the same measures that were taken at the Euros are not being taken at local football matches. That said, vaccine checks were pretty much non-existent at the Euros. That aside, it is evidently clear cases rose substantially, that's fact.
Therefore, what measures are ITFC taking that are over and above what we saw at the Euros that will mitigate the clear risk involved in attending a match? [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 20:00]
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:59 - Jul 19 with 1281 views | vapour_trail |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:45 - Jul 19 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
This is already on page 3 and I’ve not read every reply so apologies if I’ve repeating someone else..
There’s most likely 2 reasons for this:
1: Tory supporting mates of Boris and co will get a contract to create, manage, operate (or whatever term they want to use) the Covid Passport scheme
2: it’s a stick being used to persuade the younger generation to get the jab
It can’t really be enforced. Pubs and bars (some of which also stay open til 3am) don’t have to do the same. And are we really asking bouncers to act as some sort of Border control? Let’s be honest we can all think of occasions where bouncers have turned a blind eye to all sorts so there won’t be any rigorous checks and no one will be able to effectively monitor that anyway |
I am sure number 2 is a major factor.
If the threat of not being able to go to clubs, gigs, concerts, festivals, sport etc is there, you can see that driving up vacine rates in the younger age groups. |  |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:00 - Jul 19 with 1278 views | Ftnfwest |
Miss F is only 17 and has missed some of the best times of her life so far in the last 16 months. So now she’s not only not offered a vaccine but also can’t get into these events because she hasn’t had two? |  | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:01 - Jul 19 with 1257 views | WD19 |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:57 - Jul 19 by Dyland |
The app follows you about though.
Maybe there's a less invasive way of proving your jabs are up to date?
I'm a big vax n jab fan btw.
I am not a big fan of a track and trace app being used as a "passport" for anything.
I may have missed something though. Just saying, loike.
EDIT: Yeh yeh I know you can be traced through your phone no matter what, but that's only if the authorities are actively spying on you.
What are the GDPR implications here anyway?
I really need to keep up, and/or get out more/less [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 20:00]
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Different app. | | | |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:02 - Jul 19 with 1248 views | Scuzzer |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:57 - Jul 19 by Dyland |
The app follows you about though.
Maybe there's a less invasive way of proving your jabs are up to date?
I'm a big vax n jab fan btw.
I am not a big fan of a track and trace app being used as a "passport" for anything.
I may have missed something though. Just saying, loike.
EDIT: Yeh yeh I know you can be traced through your phone no matter what, but that's only if the authorities are actively spying on you.
What are the GDPR implications here anyway?
I really need to keep up, and/or get out more/less [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 20:00]
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You are thinking about he wrong app. Dont get confused between the Track and Trace App with the NHS app....which holds your vaccinations record. |  |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:03 - Jul 19 with 1246 views | Dyland |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:01 - Jul 19 by WD19 |
Different app. |
Yeh my family just told me that.
Bet they are somehow linked though, behind an invisible er, secret, er... and that.
Where the tin foil hat emoji ffs Gav. | |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:04 - Jul 19 with 1227 views | homer_123 |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 19:53 - Jul 19 by xrayspecs |
It is playing to libertarians in their party, completely agree.
Boris language tonight was recognising that this may not be irreversible.
Lets just say that in a "normal year", the NHS struggles to get through winter without having to cancel other forms of healthcare. Until Covid has burnt out (2-3 years), winters are going to be very tough and the idea that there will not be some restrictions are far fetched.
However, it does not mean opening up now, while we can, is not a bad idea.
As you say, there is a lot of things to balance beyond NHS capacity, mental health etc.
It is and remains a balancing act. [Post edited 19 Jul 2021 19:56]
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The last sentence is entirely true.
But you've got to admit - this is a monumental gamble, it maybe calculated but it is unprecedented. | |
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| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:05 - Jul 19 with 1225 views | Dyland |
| Govt just announced vaccine 'passports' needed from September on 20:02 - Jul 19 by Scuzzer |
You are thinking about he wrong app. Dont get confused between the Track and Trace App with the NHS app....which holds your vaccinations record. |
Yeh I need to keep up. | |
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