| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league†09:50 - Sep 1 with 6768 views | unstableblue |
…. And a poor start due to errors from new players… and the refrain this morning is “If Cook doesn’t get us automatic promotion he’s a complete fraud” “there are no excuses for Cook not to secure automatic promotion”
I agree play-offs is an absolute must. But this concept that we now have some god given right for automatic promotion seems a little naive - this is league one, this is football, we are now the team everyone wants to beat and play up against.
This amount of squad flux and bedding in is unheard of in our history. It’s going to take time to get all the moving parts in synch. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
You’ve also got Sheff Weds, Sunderland, Wigan, Wycombe, Rotherham, Portsmouth. Are they going to suddenly roll over… “Ipswich squad looks strong here beat us and take the 3 points”
Plus these teams like Burton, MK they are just no pushovers.
You win games through 3 things, and we’ve only got one of those factors through having the best squad (note Sheff Weds, Wigan, Sunderland look good on paper also), you also need confidence/belief/desire/cohesion (where we look miles off currently), and system/tactics (where the buck stops with Cook)
Play offs is a minimum (and hopeful promotion through that route), in a few months starting to dominate teams and show excellence in performance is also a must, and a hope that if it clicks in time to mount a serious top two challenge.
But football is tough…. We’ve no god given right even with the obvious squad strength.
BACK THE PROJECT. This will take time.
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| Oh my God! Mick has gone… let it go!!! on 11:42 - Sep 1 with 773 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league� on 10:14 - Sep 1 by BlueBadger |
What I don't get is it's all the 'mid table in the Championship/keeping Mick on/etc is accepting mediocrity' crowd who are now happy to accept failure at an unprecedented level.
Failing to get promoted with what is basically a Championship standard squad would take the Banter Era to a low that we couldn't even envisage previously. [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 18:41]
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We’re not talking about the Championship 4 years ago
We’re taking about now
Shall I spell it out SLOWLY… there is NO ‘operation p!ss the league’ we have no god given right… it is going to take a whole series of factors and a bit of luck
If cook doesn’t have us in the play offs and playing brilliant cohesive football come May… HE SHOULD GO
If he doesn’t get a win in Sept then he might have to go!!!
But as the owners stated we may take a year!!
Get a grip | |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:43 - Sep 1 with 776 views | textbackup |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 09:57 - Sep 1 by itfcjoe |
Make excuses as much as you want - but promotion is the only show in town this year and it has to be achieved.
There are likely some scenarios where not achieving it won't be seen as a total failure and where Cook may retain his job.
No-one says we have a god given right to go up, but we have put a squad together who is capable of it, we have a manager who has been there and done it on more than one occasion.
Cook is under huge pressure now, and there will be no one putting him under more pressure than himself.
Too many fans have talked about the club settling for mediocrity - we have a proven winner in charge, an overpowered squad and the pressure is on.
Cook knows the score here, and will back himself 100%. The road won't be smooth - but if we don't improve soon then he knows he is bang in trouble.
The club isn't going to be allowed to drift like it did under Lambert in this league, and where being in contention for the play offs is seen as good enough |
I vaguely remember reading (may have been u) saying we are to recruit as if we are a championship club. I think we’ve done so.
Imagine if we had signed someone of Morsys quality in that playoff season, or Celina or Edwards. |  |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league� on 11:46 - Sep 1 with 769 views | jayessess |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:10 - Sep 1 by Ryorry |
Exactly - and there seem to be quite a few people who think football is just a question of progression based on logic - "we have a and b, therefore c must follow in d amount of time".
If only it were a mathematical formula - we'd be there already! |
It's not that though, is it? If we all thought promotion was guaranteed we'd all be emptying the savings and running to the bookies.
Nobody thinks the rest of the league will roll over or that anything will be given to us. But lots of us think that "par" for a good manager at a well run club is to achieve on the pitch something that reflects the financial resources available to you.
It's not impossible that we finish 10th with one of the biggest (if not the biggest) budget in the league. But it would be a terrible performance by the club. It would mean that 9 other League One managers had out-performed ours and it would be obvious that we should pursue a change. [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 11:49]
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:46 - Sep 1 with 768 views | homer_123 |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:25 - Sep 1 by unstableblue |
Thanks good post.
The bile and anger below in this post typifies the point I’m making - it is going to take time, this level of squad change is unprecedented, this league is difficult to get out of, there is NO ‘p!ss the league’ as much as you can scream about it.
People need a reality check.
I really hope we make automatic, we have a brilliant chance now with the quality of this squad. But to state ‘there are no excuses for not going up automatically’ sounds naive at best!!
NOW if we are not in the play-offs and by the end of the season playing extremely good and cohesive football - COOK has to go. If we have no wins this month… COOKs position is in question? If we are bottom half of table in the new year…. Cook probably has to go.
A god given right to automatic promotion- sorry that’s foolish. |
'...bile and anger...'
What are you reading? Where is any of that below? |  |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:48 - Sep 1 with 764 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 09:57 - Sep 1 by itfcjoe |
Make excuses as much as you want - but promotion is the only show in town this year and it has to be achieved.
There are likely some scenarios where not achieving it won't be seen as a total failure and where Cook may retain his job.
No-one says we have a god given right to go up, but we have put a squad together who is capable of it, we have a manager who has been there and done it on more than one occasion.
Cook is under huge pressure now, and there will be no one putting him under more pressure than himself.
Too many fans have talked about the club settling for mediocrity - we have a proven winner in charge, an overpowered squad and the pressure is on.
Cook knows the score here, and will back himself 100%. The road won't be smooth - but if we don't improve soon then he knows he is bang in trouble.
The club isn't going to be allowed to drift like it did under Lambert in this league, and where being in contention for the play offs is seen as good enough |
Nothing to disagree with here Joe, other than the "Too many fans have talked about the club settling for mediocrity" line. The only ones talking about mediocrity are the 'promotion or bust' types as a put down for everybody else.
The only people accepting mediocrity are a few old codgers in the Co-Op with a blanket over their knees and a flask by their side. No-one on TWTD, that I've seen, is accepting of mediocrity. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:51 - Sep 1 with 746 views | timothyeo |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:48 - Sep 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Nothing to disagree with here Joe, other than the "Too many fans have talked about the club settling for mediocrity" line. The only ones talking about mediocrity are the 'promotion or bust' types as a put down for everybody else.
The only people accepting mediocrity are a few old codgers in the Co-Op with a blanket over their knees and a flask by their side. No-one on TWTD, that I've seen, is accepting of mediocrity. |
No one on TWTD?
There's been posters happy with us finishing top half this season. Pretty sure someone called Wallingford springs to mind, but I can't be bothered to go through old posts. |  | | |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:52 - Sep 1 with 751 views | Vaughan8 |
Some people are going to be disappointed I think going on this thread.
To say "not getting automatic promotion is a failure" implies you think we should be winning most of our remaining games. 41 left, we need about 90+ points so say over 2 points a game.
In the same breathe these people say "I didn't say we expect to walk the league" - Just saying that you do though? getting 2 points a game is pretty tough especially when we've got 0.6 a game so far....
I don't know a lot of these players we've bought but people are saying they should/could be playing above league 1 which is fine. However, having good individuals "on paper" doesn't necessarily mean we will win a load of games. | | | |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league� on 11:57 - Sep 1 with 742 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league� on 11:46 - Sep 1 by jayessess |
It's not that though, is it? If we all thought promotion was guaranteed we'd all be emptying the savings and running to the bookies.
Nobody thinks the rest of the league will roll over or that anything will be given to us. But lots of us think that "par" for a good manager at a well run club is to achieve on the pitch something that reflects the financial resources available to you.
It's not impossible that we finish 10th with one of the biggest (if not the biggest) budget in the league. But it would be a terrible performance by the club. It would mean that 9 other League One managers had out-performed ours and it would be obvious that we should pursue a change. [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 11:49]
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And that’s why the minimum is play off place and playing cohesive and excellent football that is a platform for success
Top two is not a given… as much as people rant and rave [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 12:05]
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:57 - Sep 1 with 750 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:46 - Sep 1 by homer_123 |
'...bile and anger...'
What are you reading? Where is any of that below? |
Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ by Mullet 1 Sep 2021 10:25I assume it's because they got shown up as the clueless, fickle and unbelievably entitled hypocrites they now look by being so militant and dishonest this time around?
We should never even be in this league, maybe going up means they're scared of being shown up again after positioning themselves as such experts and true fans compared to the rest of us?
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| THIS (n/t) on 12:00 - Sep 1 with 722 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 10:19 - Sep 1 by The_Major |
Whilst I agree going up should be expected, and I stand to be corrected, but at the fans forum a few weeks ago, didn't all three of Ashton, O'Leary, and Cook say that if it takes more than a year, then so be it?
However, saying that, I'm assuming that they're thinking heroic failure (lose in playoffs or finish 7th on GD) rather than finish 12th. What will be, will be. |
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| Sanity (n/t) on 12:02 - Sep 1 with 712 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:52 - Sep 1 by Vaughan8 |
Some people are going to be disappointed I think going on this thread.
To say "not getting automatic promotion is a failure" implies you think we should be winning most of our remaining games. 41 left, we need about 90+ points so say over 2 points a game.
In the same breathe these people say "I didn't say we expect to walk the league" - Just saying that you do though? getting 2 points a game is pretty tough especially when we've got 0.6 a game so far....
I don't know a lot of these players we've bought but people are saying they should/could be playing above league 1 which is fine. However, having good individuals "on paper" doesn't necessarily mean we will win a load of games. |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:02 - Sep 1 with 711 views | jayessess |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league� on 11:57 - Sep 1 by unstableblue |
And that’s why the minimum is play off place and playing cohesive and excellent football that is a platform for success
Top two is not a given… as much as people rant and rave [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 12:05]
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Didn't see any ranting or raving in my post.
The same logic applies to 6th as 10th, really. It would be, relative to budget, below par. There are lots of managers out there who out-perform the resources available to them, not sure why we'd be so keen to continue with one who was significantly under that line. | |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:05 - Sep 1 with 696 views | jayessess |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:52 - Sep 1 by Vaughan8 |
Some people are going to be disappointed I think going on this thread.
To say "not getting automatic promotion is a failure" implies you think we should be winning most of our remaining games. 41 left, we need about 90+ points so say over 2 points a game.
In the same breathe these people say "I didn't say we expect to walk the league" - Just saying that you do though? getting 2 points a game is pretty tough especially when we've got 0.6 a game so far....
I don't know a lot of these players we've bought but people are saying they should/could be playing above league 1 which is fine. However, having good individuals "on paper" doesn't necessarily mean we will win a load of games. |
I'm not sure "we've already wasted a month worth of winnable games" is mitigating circumstances for the manager, is it? | |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:08 - Sep 1 with 678 views | Vaughan8 |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:05 - Sep 1 by jayessess |
I'm not sure "we've already wasted a month worth of winnable games" is mitigating circumstances for the manager, is it? |
Just have your own conversation and when you are ready to talk about what everyone else is, then join in. | | | |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:08 - Sep 1 with 675 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:02 - Sep 1 by jayessess |
Didn't see any ranting or raving in my post.
The same logic applies to 6th as 10th, really. It would be, relative to budget, below par. There are lots of managers out there who out-perform the resources available to them, not sure why we'd be so keen to continue with one who was significantly under that line. |
Sorry buddy wasn’t aimed at you, have edited. More those ranting and raving that we now have a god given right to take an automatic place.
As I’ve stated a few times I think if Cook doesn’t get a win in September his position comes into question
If we’re not top and half and beginning to cruise by January he should be sacked
And if we don’t take a play off berth and be playing very strong and cohesive football by May - he should be sacked.
But my point is this - way too many factors that could cause us to miss an automatic place to say it’s a CERTAINTY | |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:09 - Sep 1 with 675 views | Ryorry |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league� on 11:46 - Sep 1 by jayessess |
It's not that though, is it? If we all thought promotion was guaranteed we'd all be emptying the savings and running to the bookies.
Nobody thinks the rest of the league will roll over or that anything will be given to us. But lots of us think that "par" for a good manager at a well run club is to achieve on the pitch something that reflects the financial resources available to you.
It's not impossible that we finish 10th with one of the biggest (if not the biggest) budget in the league. But it would be a terrible performance by the club. It would mean that 9 other League One managers had out-performed ours and it would be obvious that we should pursue a change. [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 11:49]
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"it would be obvious that we should pursue a change."
Not if we're showing obvious signs of steady progress it wouldn't. "Pursuing a change" in those circumstances would be more likely to set us back than move us forward positively.
Some people just aren't being realistic - but then, that's football I guess! |  |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:09 - Sep 1 with 670 views | homer_123 |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:57 - Sep 1 by unstableblue |
Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ by Mullet 1 Sep 2021 10:25I assume it's because they got shown up as the clueless, fickle and unbelievably entitled hypocrites they now look by being so militant and dishonest this time around?
We should never even be in this league, maybe going up means they're scared of being shown up again after positioning themselves as such experts and true fans compared to the rest of us?
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Do you really class that as 'bile and anger'? | |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:12 - Sep 1 with 658 views | jayessess |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:08 - Sep 1 by Vaughan8 |
Just have your own conversation and when you are ready to talk about what everyone else is, then join in. |
The conversation is about our expectations of the manager/club, isn't it? | |
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| Totally agree…. on 12:15 - Sep 1 with 648 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 10:05 - Sep 1 by Guthrum |
It's not about a 'God-given right', but an expectation given the investment in the club, the calibre of the players hired and the pedigree of the Manager in charge. It shouldn't take half the season to instill the cohesion necessary to get that lot consistently winning games - or, at least, not throwing them away in the last half an hour.
These are experienced professionals, who have spent their entire lives since childhood adapting to how an ever-shifting array of colleagues play the game. Teams are rarely identical for more than a few weeks at a stretch. They know how to fit in, quickly. Those that don't (unless, perhaps, supremely talented) are unlikely to have got this far.
Indeed, with such widespread change, you don't have the potential issue of new men having to break into existing cliques and friendship groups. Everyone is getting to know each other all at once. Partnerships can be formed from the off, rather than old ones broken and remade. |
BUT does that mean that in the time remaining we’ll win more games than Sheffield Weds, Wigan, Sunderland, Wycombe, Rotherham???
Only time will tell
But your right our expectation given the quality of squad and manager has to be play-offs minimum but critically playing very positive, aggressive and cohesive football come May.
The football Gods are cruel Guthrie, and you need a bit of luck to get the confidence and a run going. That has yet to happen.
Also we are THE team to beat!! | |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:20 - Sep 1 with 629 views | Oldboy |
I said top 6. |  | | |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:27 - Sep 1 with 612 views | unstableblue |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:20 - Sep 1 by Oldboy |
I said top 6. |
That’s the bare minimum... but more importantly Top 6 and by the spring playing as a very strong, cohesive and formidable looking team
Playing well enough to have caught one of our many rivals, factoring the bumps we’ll have along the way
Let’s see | |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:29 - Sep 1 with 603 views | Mullet |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:09 - Sep 1 by homer_123 |
Do you really class that as 'bile and anger'? |
Of course not. It’s just embarrassing for the OP and his kindred spirits isn’t it? If it helps, I’m always chuckling with threads like these.
Classic twtd tactic of projecting one’s emotions onto the person pointing out they’re completely wrong as per.
We are seriously hearing talk that being a league and a half below where they list their rag, after even more backing is acceptable and all will come good where doom and gloom was present before…. Hilarious |  |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough league� on 12:29 - Sep 1 with 600 views | jayessess |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:09 - Sep 1 by Ryorry |
"it would be obvious that we should pursue a change."
Not if we're showing obvious signs of steady progress it wouldn't. "Pursuing a change" in those circumstances would be more likely to set us back than move us forward positively.
Some people just aren't being realistic - but then, that's football I guess! |
Thing is, I don't think your scenario is a very realistic one.
It's not realistic about the impact of budget on football teams and the expectations that people running football clubs attach to their investment.
It's not realistic about the effects another season in L1 would likely have on the club, including the willingness of the fanbase to renew season tickets for a 4th season in L1, the SMCP difficulties that would entail, the problem of having a bunch of players on big contracts that they aren't living up to, of having other players with unfulfilled career expectations.
It's not realistic about how hostile the fanbase would be after falling short, except under a very very narrow range of circumstances.
I don't think it's very realistic about scenarios where we get to 6th. Are we failing so badly at Christmas that title-winning form in the 2nd half of the season only gets us so far? Cook would be long gone at that point. Are we so inconsistent that we hover around 6th all season and 6th is our peak form? The owners didn't pay all that money to peak as the 6th best team in the league.
People forget that a season is a very long time to be racking up defeats and failures. There's this tendency to engage in dispassionate assessments ("we need continuity, the manager should get 2 seasons come what may") that completely ignore the state the club will actually be in if they happen. [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 12:41]
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:33 - Sep 1 with 578 views | itfcjoe |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 11:43 - Sep 1 by textbackup |
I vaguely remember reading (may have been u) saying we are to recruit as if we are a championship club. I think we’ve done so.
Imagine if we had signed someone of Morsys quality in that playoff season, or Celina or Edwards. |
I think there are very few of our signings who if, for example, Hull had signed in the league above anyone would have throught they were a poor signing.
It's a Championship squad, getting paid Championship money, and in 12 months time we'll be watching a Championship team |  |
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| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:38 - Sep 1 with 569 views | Oldboy |
| Come off it TWTD!! 19 new players.. many of them just arrived.. a tough leagueï¿ on 12:27 - Sep 1 by unstableblue |
That’s the bare minimum... but more importantly Top 6 and by the spring playing as a very strong, cohesive and formidable looking team
Playing well enough to have caught one of our many rivals, factoring the bumps we’ll have along the way
Let’s see |
I would say that if we are not in or very close to top 10 at Xmas then Cook will be gone. The owners have backed him heavily this window and would expect top 10 as a minimum by then. | | | |
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