| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland 15:46 - Oct 12 with 3691 views | noggin |
or am I misunderstanding his speech? |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 19:46 - Oct 12 with 873 views | lowhouseblue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 19:40 - Oct 12 by Kievthegreat |
That sort of thinking is tantamount to 'Remainers saying Brexit is crap is the reason Brexit is so crap'.
"Hard brexit" was set out as the course of action by Theresa May when she had a majority in Parliament before the 2017 election. The red lines were drawn such that hard brexit was inevitable. It's historical revisionism to blame hard brexit on the results of the 2019 election. |
no it's saying that remainers in parliament (in all parties) refusing to accept the referendum result gave us a much harder brexit than was easily available. it also gave us boris. i can't see how any of those involved in the parliamentary games at that time can look back and think they did well. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:11 - Oct 12 with 833 views | Herbivore |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 19:25 - Oct 12 by lowhouseblue |
no the opposition didn't have a mandate to undermine the deal and by implication the referendum result. it was in the their hands to get may's deal through. they thought they could play a game and reverse the referendum and that is one of the greatest misjudgements in post war uk politics. [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 19:25]
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So the opposition should have waved through a deal that didn't meet the tests they'd outlined in order for them to pass a deal because they should have foreseen it might
lead to a worse deal and a bigger Tory majority some months later? That's a hot take even by your standards.
The notion it was remainers who scuppered May's deal is also a fair whack of revisionism, if May had got the DUP and ERG wing of her party on board her deal would have passed. At some point those who supported and drove Brexit need to take some ownership of it instead of blaming everyone else. |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:27 - Oct 12 with 808 views | unstableblue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 19:42 - Oct 12 by WicklowBlue |
A view from the other side of the water, that Frost est al keep changing the goal posts in negotiations. Granted both sides shouldn't be having a go at each other on twitter, but very little sympathy over in the Emerald Isle for constantly changing the goal posts on a signed agreement.
http://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/1010/1252786-brexit/
Of course both sides will present themselves in the best light but feeling is patience is running out on the EU side. Triggering article 16 will mean a world of pain for the Irish and the UK. [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 19:45]
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Is there much coverage there of the improved Ireland to Dunkirk trade route? Sounds significant |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:32 - Oct 12 with 802 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 19:46 - Oct 12 by lowhouseblue |
no it's saying that remainers in parliament (in all parties) refusing to accept the referendum result gave us a much harder brexit than was easily available. it also gave us boris. i can't see how any of those involved in the parliamentary games at that time can look back and think they did well. |
If I remember correctly most of the remainders in the Tory party did back May. It was the ERG loons who opposed. To blame the opposition is to not understand how parliament works, but I’m sure you do really.
We had threads on it at the time looking at the numbers. I’m fairly sure May could have got it through if not for opposition from within her own party. |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:37 - Oct 12 with 791 views | Swansea_Blue |
Listening to the news on the way home half an hour ago and a N. Irish fella in the piece on trade problems pipes up “the problem is the EU now see GB as a third world country”.
A marvellous Freudian slip. We’re not there yet mate, but are certainly trying our best! | |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:40 - Oct 12 with 783 views | WicklowBlue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:27 - Oct 12 by unstableblue |
Is there much coverage there of the improved Ireland to Dunkirk trade route? Sounds significant |
Yes there is but not headline news, as in we are lording over not using the land bridge.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2021/1011/1252968-dunkirk-irish-ferry/ |  | | |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:50 - Oct 12 with 768 views | WicklowBlue |
Just to add, today was Irish Budget day and this caught my eye:
"Michael McGrath says that Ireland marks 50 years of EU membership during the lifetime of this Government.
He says Ireland will receive just over €1 billion of funding from the Brexit Adjustment Reserve - the biggest single allocation for any member state, representing just over 20% of the total fund.
"As the member state most impacted by Brexit, we will use this funding to help counter the adverse economic and social consequences of Brexit in areas such as enterprise supports; supports for the fisheries and agri-food sectors, re-skilling and retraining; and checks and controls at our ports and airports" | | | |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:52 - Oct 12 with 766 views | unstableblue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:50 - Oct 12 by WicklowBlue |
Just to add, today was Irish Budget day and this caught my eye:
"Michael McGrath says that Ireland marks 50 years of EU membership during the lifetime of this Government.
He says Ireland will receive just over €1 billion of funding from the Brexit Adjustment Reserve - the biggest single allocation for any member state, representing just over 20% of the total fund.
"As the member state most impacted by Brexit, we will use this funding to help counter the adverse economic and social consequences of Brexit in areas such as enterprise supports; supports for the fisheries and agri-food sectors, re-skilling and retraining; and checks and controls at our ports and airports" |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 21:00 - Oct 12 with 756 views | WicklowBlue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:37 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Listening to the news on the way home half an hour ago and a N. Irish fella in the piece on trade problems pipes up “the problem is the EU now see GB as a third world country”.
A marvellous Freudian slip. We’re not there yet mate, but are certainly trying our best! |
I don't think any of us Irish see GB that way, but hey that doesn't make for great soundbites! But there again as per this thread it's all aimed at divisiveness and moving the conversation away from the main protagonists. i.e. how do we all make this work for everyone rather than sensationalism.
Certainly Frost calling out removing the ECJ powers will be a deffo no go on the EU side. | | | |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 21:12 - Oct 12 with 736 views | WicklowBlue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:52 - Oct 12 by unstableblue |
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It's terrible isn't it? Even with a customs border down the Irish sea (which the Unionists object to, but the other option is a land border between NI and ROI which is against the GFA) surely some sense can prevail or solutions found?
Being Irish born and bred with my parents meeting each other and living in Ipswich for many years before relocating to Ireland. It's ridiculous how our powers that be keep putting barriers between us. Obviously there are more extremist views on both sides... [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 21:22]
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 21:36 - Oct 12 with 715 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 21:00 - Oct 12 by WicklowBlue |
I don't think any of us Irish see GB that way, but hey that doesn't make for great soundbites! But there again as per this thread it's all aimed at divisiveness and moving the conversation away from the main protagonists. i.e. how do we all make this work for everyone rather than sensationalism.
Certainly Frost calling out removing the ECJ powers will be a deffo no go on the EU side. |
Isn't the former EU negotiator standing in next years French Presidential elections, and doesn't he want to curb the powers of ECJ as they impact on French freedom? |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 22:16 - Oct 12 with 680 views | WicklowBlue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 21:36 - Oct 12 by Pinewoodblue |
Isn't the former EU negotiator standing in next years French Presidential elections, and doesn't he want to curb the powers of ECJ as they impact on French freedom? |
I'm not sure why you are replying to my post with this? If you want to continue down what the French are discussing rather than the EU stance on negotiations go for it.
As I stated Frost calling out the ECJ is effectively a redline for the EU. I have no problem with the ECJ, in fact that is what binds the EU together. Hence that will be the breaking point, why is Frost suddenly calling out the role of the ECJ in NI? Along with your post seems like the usual whataboutery....
What are your thoughts on how the issue with the NIP can be resolved? (Quick hint, it doesn't involve the French political situation) | | | |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 00:00 - Oct 13 with 628 views | factual_blue |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 16:43 - Oct 12 by noggin |
A very predictable crisis. The government knew what would happen when they signed the agreement. |
Or is it a cunning plan by the UK government to leave Ulster with no sensible alternative but to join Eire?
Although sense isn't a quality found widely in the appalling people who appear to make up the Unionist community. |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 06:46 - Oct 13 with 562 views | BlueBadger |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 20:37 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Listening to the news on the way home half an hour ago and a N. Irish fella in the piece on trade problems pipes up “the problem is the EU now see GB as a third world country”.
A marvellous Freudian slip. We’re not there yet mate, but are certainly trying our best! |
We certainly fit the 'riddled with corruption, shortages and rampant inflation' part.... |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 08:26 - Oct 13 with 521 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 19:20 - Oct 12 by giant_stow |
I meant that the unionists got talked into accepting the del by the tories.
And thanks, but you've now got 3 examples in the thread of when the eu has shown flexibility on major issues, so I'm not sure there's anything exceptionally English about asking for more pragmatism of this sort in resolving beexit. |
The UK are no longer members of the club so what reason would the EU make an exception for them? The exceptuons or cnsiderations were made for countries that remained in the EU ( like the UK keeping the Pound ). |  | | |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:29 - Oct 13 with 441 views | giant_stow |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 08:26 - Oct 13 by Eireannach_gorm |
The UK are no longer members of the club so what reason would the EU make an exception for them? The exceptuons or cnsiderations were made for countries that remained in the EU ( like the UK keeping the Pound ). |
Northern Ireland is affectively still part of the Single Market though (i think) and at the EU's insistence. I'd say that makes it an EU matter and even if you disagreed, wouldn't concerns about peace in the island of Ireland qualify this as an something requiring special thought and flexibility? |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:39 - Oct 13 with 435 views | Herbivore |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:29 - Oct 13 by giant_stow |
Northern Ireland is affectively still part of the Single Market though (i think) and at the EU's insistence. I'd say that makes it an EU matter and even if you disagreed, wouldn't concerns about peace in the island of Ireland qualify this as an something requiring special thought and flexibility? |
The Withdrawal Agreement is bilateral, the EU could not unilaterally insist on anything. Your language on this is very interesting, seems you have entirely swallowed the government and UK media narrative on this. | |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:46 - Oct 13 with 432 views | giant_stow |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:39 - Oct 13 by Herbivore |
The Withdrawal Agreement is bilateral, the EU could not unilaterally insist on anything. Your language on this is very interesting, seems you have entirely swallowed the government and UK media narrative on this. |
So the UK govt wanted Northern Ireland to be part of the Single Market? Genuine question, as I'm confused now. | |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:58 - Oct 13 with 409 views | Herbivore |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:46 - Oct 13 by giant_stow |
So the UK govt wanted Northern Ireland to be part of the Single Market? Genuine question, as I'm confused now. |
The UK government agreed to it. If they didn't want it they shouldn't have agreed to it and should instead have offered a workable alternative. | |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 13:03 - Oct 13 with 391 views | bluelagos |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:46 - Oct 13 by giant_stow |
So the UK govt wanted Northern Ireland to be part of the Single Market? Genuine question, as I'm confused now. |
The UK govt accepted and agreed to NI remaining part of the single market. That was part of the agreement they came to and sold to the public as Boris's "Oven ready deal".
That "Oven ready deal" is what the same Govt are now saying needs changing. |  |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 13:08 - Oct 13 with 384 views | giant_stow |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 12:58 - Oct 13 by Herbivore |
The UK government agreed to it. If they didn't want it they shouldn't have agreed to it and should instead have offered a workable alternative. |
Ah so you were objecting to my wording. If you prefer, the EU insisted in those bilateral negotiations, that the only way to avoid a hard border was to have NI in the Single Market or there's be no deal. The Tories accepted that and now regret it. Fine!
Once again I agree I'm not defending the Brexit mess, but here we are. As NI's in the Single Market, I think they can afford to show some flexibility - that was my point. | |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 13:10 - Oct 13 with 371 views | giant_stow |
I hope their pragmatic offer isn't scupperred by Frost aiming too high. | |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 13:12 - Oct 13 with 356 views | Herbivore |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 13:10 - Oct 13 by giant_stow |
I hope their pragmatic offer isn't scupperred by Frost aiming too high. |
Frost has already aimed too high, he's brought the role of the ECJ into it which he knows is something that's not up for negotiation. | |
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| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 13:15 - Oct 13 with 346 views | giant_stow |
| Lord Frost blaming EU for post brexit problems in Northern Ireland on 13:12 - Oct 13 by Herbivore |
Frost has already aimed too high, he's brought the role of the ECJ into it which he knows is something that's not up for negotiation. |
Agreement at last! | |
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