| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster 16:28 - Dec 15 with 7058 views | StokieBlue |
Clearly most of the country don't want more restrictions which is absolutely understandable but Omicron is absolutely running riot.
78000 cases today is massive, a 19% increase on cases from last week and more importantly as of Saturday hospitalisations are up 10.4% so that's likely more than that given we have seen a huge jump in cases since Saturday.
Deaths are slightly down this week but that would lag behind hospitalisations.
Given >10 million aren't yet boosted it's hard to see how the current level of restrictions are going to do anything given the steep rise in cases even with them. Most of that rise is going to be from the SE and London as Omicron is only thought to be 5% of cases up North but once it hits there it's going to keep on rising.
It's an impossible situation now where people absolutely understandably don't want more restrictions but without it the trend is only going to go one way over a short time horizon.
Perhaps at the very minimum the schools should close for the last 2 days of term and WFH should become mandatory rather than advice.
What are peoples thoughts? Would people want some tougher restrictions for a few weeks or do we agree with the Tory rebels that enough is enough?
Boris is speaking at 5pm, we shall see what he says. Either way, getting your booster is absolutely key now.
SB [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 16:32]
|  | | |  |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:52 - Dec 15 with 1320 views | J2BLUE |
BJ makes himself look a tit at the best of times but it's even more noticeable when he stands next to Whitty with his science and logic. Followed by "Whitty just contradicted you Prime Minister" before BJ gives us a couple of minutes of stuttering and blustering talking utter boll0cks.
Hopefully in the future he will face some sort of trial over his handling of the pandemic.
Same with that pr1ck Javid looking smug getting his pre-planned one liners in. [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 17:56]
|  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:52 - Dec 15 with 1316 views | Churchman |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:38 - Dec 15 by giant_stow |
The problem with that is that the level of lockdown required to stop this or even slow it might be behind anything we've seen yet, or for that matter beyond anything possible.
As someone already said, the moment to lockdown was a couple of weeks ago.
If the estimate for Omicron cases was 200,000 on monday and its doubling in less than 2 days, a really tough lockdown (Spanish style at min) starting tonight / now might have touched the sides. But its too late.
Sorry to be a downer, but I think we're screwed already.
Edit: apologies if I'm sounding like i know anything! Obviously I don't, but having said that, I did make a decent guess last week, about todays numbers. [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 17:40]
|
No apologies are necessary. Most of us are in the same position as you.
SB is probably our best source of knowledge on this, not least because he discusses it using source/hard info rather than lazy guesswork that the likes of myself are prone to doing.. [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 17:56]
|  | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:57 - Dec 15 with 1276 views | giant_stow |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:52 - Dec 15 by Churchman |
No apologies are necessary. Most of us are in the same position as you.
SB is probably our best source of knowledge on this, not least because he discusses it using source/hard info rather than lazy guesswork that the likes of myself are prone to doing.. [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 17:56]
|
Cheers fella - its easy to get on a speculating roll only to remember you're no expert! Agreed about SB - very considered and a massive asset to the twtd community in this. |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:01 - Dec 15 with 1236 views | BLUEGOLD |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 16:35 - Dec 15 by Ipswich24 |
And where are these 'stats' coming from exactly?
BBC, Sky scaremongering again! |
You are a *unt |  | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:03 - Dec 15 with 1206 views | Mookamoo |
Interesting bit of advise at the end of that press conference.
If you're going to go to a stadium this weekend, make it one where you can get your booster, not to see a match. |  | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:05 - Dec 15 with 1182 views | BlueBadger |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:45 - Dec 15 by factual_blue |
To be fair, this government finds any decision difficult. |
That's unfair. If it involves penalising women, poor people, foreigners, non-white people or LGBTQ people, there's very little indecision. |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:08 - Dec 15 with 1146 views | chrismakin |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:03 - Dec 15 by Mookamoo |
Interesting bit of advise at the end of that press conference.
If you're going to go to a stadium this weekend, make it one where you can get your booster, not to see a match. |
It's pretty much
Stay at home. Social distance. Only go to places that are a priority..... effectively lockdown
But we are to scared to lose the next election so we won't tell you what to do but the 2 people with me will basically tell you what to do without me telling you what to do |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:11 - Dec 15 with 1138 views | footers |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:08 - Dec 15 by chrismakin |
It's pretty much
Stay at home. Social distance. Only go to places that are a priority..... effectively lockdown
But we are to scared to lose the next election so we won't tell you what to do but the 2 people with me will basically tell you what to do without me telling you what to do |
It's pure self-preservation from johnson who, of course, faced one of the biggest rebellions from his own benches in history yesterday.
It's the CRG nutters holding him hostage and he's willing to put himself first, as always. |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:12 - Dec 15 with 1129 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:46 - Dec 15 by giant_stow |
I saw this tweet earlier from one of Grizzlie's links which i think illustrates my point:
|
Those lateral flow tests are wolves in sheep's clothing...still showing Junior as negative despite her positive PCR. |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:15 - Dec 15 with 1109 views | jeera |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:12 - Dec 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Those lateral flow tests are wolves in sheep's clothing...still showing Junior as negative despite her positive PCR. |
Faulty batch?
It would be handy if the products were listed somewhere in order of reliability so people didn't take all results for granted.
Any brands that are known to be rubbish need to go in the bin. |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:18 - Dec 15 with 1106 views | bluelagos |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 17:38 - Dec 15 by giant_stow |
The problem with that is that the level of lockdown required to stop this or even slow it might be behind anything we've seen yet, or for that matter beyond anything possible.
As someone already said, the moment to lockdown was a couple of weeks ago.
If the estimate for Omicron cases was 200,000 on monday and its doubling in less than 2 days, a really tough lockdown (Spanish style at min) starting tonight / now might have touched the sides. But its too late.
Sorry to be a downer, but I think we're screwed already.
Edit: apologies if I'm sounding like i know anything! Obviously I don't, but having said that, I did make a decent guess last week, about todays numbers. [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 17:40]
|
Right, so first thing is the policy is not, nor has it ever been - CV elimination. Would be impossible, end of.
The policy is (rightly or wrongly) to try and ensure the rates of CV don't overwhelm our NHS. To limit the hospitalisations to manageable levels.
So yeah - we are up sh1t creek given the modeled estimates of 200k cases a day. That is why they are going hell for leather with the messaging and rule changes. Arguably not far enough - think that will become clear in the coming days /weeks tbh.
But it is never too late to tighten restrictions. By doing so we reduce the spread. We don't eliminate it, we reduce it and all the time get more people boosted / protected.
Where we end up - fiik. But if current restrictions prove not to be tight enough - then we only have 2 choices - carry on watching things get worse or bring in restrictions to reduce the spread. It's that simple and standing on a sinking ship saying "It's sinking" isn't as a good a strategy as looking for a life boat and using it. Yep, some people may go down with the ship but you can still make the most of a sh1t situation... |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:22 - Dec 15 with 1095 views | giant_stow |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:12 - Dec 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Those lateral flow tests are wolves in sheep's clothing...still showing Junior as negative despite her positive PCR. |
Everyone's experience on LFTs seems so different, but mine is that they've been excellent at picking up infections in many friends and myself now. Absolutely worth it. Can't argue with what you're saying about your kid though. | |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:36 - Dec 15 with 1054 views | giant_stow |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:18 - Dec 15 by bluelagos |
Right, so first thing is the policy is not, nor has it ever been - CV elimination. Would be impossible, end of.
The policy is (rightly or wrongly) to try and ensure the rates of CV don't overwhelm our NHS. To limit the hospitalisations to manageable levels.
So yeah - we are up sh1t creek given the modeled estimates of 200k cases a day. That is why they are going hell for leather with the messaging and rule changes. Arguably not far enough - think that will become clear in the coming days /weeks tbh.
But it is never too late to tighten restrictions. By doing so we reduce the spread. We don't eliminate it, we reduce it and all the time get more people boosted / protected.
Where we end up - fiik. But if current restrictions prove not to be tight enough - then we only have 2 choices - carry on watching things get worse or bring in restrictions to reduce the spread. It's that simple and standing on a sinking ship saying "It's sinking" isn't as a good a strategy as looking for a life boat and using it. Yep, some people may go down with the ship but you can still make the most of a sh1t situation... |
fair enough mr and thats definitely a more positive reading of the situation - i hope you're right. | |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:37 - Dec 15 with 1051 views | The_Major |
This is a chap who knows his stuff, so I'm more likely to take heed of what he's saying that the useless idiot at Number 10.
Oh, and before any fool jumps on here accusing him of scaremongering, let me quote from his Wiki page.
"Nabarro studied at the University of Oxford and the University of London, and qualified as a physician in 1973. He is a member of the Faculty of Public Health (FPH) and the Royal College of Physicians by distinction."
If you think you know better than him, you don't. |  | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:40 - Dec 15 with 1024 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:37 - Dec 15 by The_Major |
This is a chap who knows his stuff, so I'm more likely to take heed of what he's saying that the useless idiot at Number 10.
Oh, and before any fool jumps on here accusing him of scaremongering, let me quote from his Wiki page.
"Nabarro studied at the University of Oxford and the University of London, and qualified as a physician in 1973. He is a member of the Faculty of Public Health (FPH) and the Royal College of Physicians by distinction."
If you think you know better than him, you don't. |
Watched that live. He really does seem concerned. The programme also pointed out the clear contrast in tone between both Witty and the other doctor (apols can't recall her name) and Johnson.
Witty spoke of this breaking a lot of records and not in a good way. |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:55 - Dec 15 with 995 views | Ely_Blue |
So we are told boosters will work then what about those who have been boosted, should they be told to WFH and wrap themselves in cotton wool if they have done the maximum they can do against the virus? Will not going anywhere benefit anyone in those age groups? |  |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:56 - Dec 15 with 976 views | BlueNomad |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 16:39 - Dec 15 by bluelagos |
Some people for sure. Pictures of last years Tory parties breaking the rules at the time will hardly help will they. There is a widespread CV fatigue.
But - I have to say when I was in London Monday night, the mask wearing on the tube was near universal. People don't want to kill their loved ones so most will am sure be sensible(ish). |
It’s true there is fatigue and the parties last year won’t help BUT the former in any other situation provokes the call to dig in, and ultimately if the idiots in and around No 10 want to disregard the rules it doesn’t lessen my desire to protect people. [Post edited 15 Dec 2021 18:57]
|  | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 19:53 - Dec 15 with 895 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 16:48 - Dec 15 by Trequartista |
Stay as we are. Is there any evidence this 10% rise in hospitalisations is due to omicron? The number was 10 yesterday. I don’t see how we are going to fare worse than South Africa when we are far more vaccinated than they are when even 2 doses gives good protection against hospitalisations and death, even factoring in an older population (they still have some old people in SA) |
South Africa is in the Southern Hemisphere. It is Summer in the Southern Hemisphere at the moment. Covid infection rates go down in Summer as there is an effect on the virus from UV light and as people spend more time outdoors.
The fact that the Omicron variant has spread quickly through South Africa during the Summer, when infection rates should have fallen, is very concerning indeed.
Just to complete the Fact Check: the UK is in the Northern Hemisphere and it is winter here right now. | | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 20:04 - Dec 15 with 883 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:15 - Dec 15 by jeera |
Faulty batch?
It would be handy if the products were listed somewhere in order of reliability so people didn't take all results for granted.
Any brands that are known to be rubbish need to go in the bin. |
This lot is called flowflex. | |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 22:22 - Dec 15 with 801 views | Ely_Blue |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 18:12 - Dec 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Those lateral flow tests are wolves in sheep's clothing...still showing Junior as negative despite her positive PCR. |
Which part of this from the governments own covid website and also from the covid LFT packs do people fail to understand
“ Do not use a rapid lateral flow test if you have COVID-19 symptoms. Get a PCR test as soon as possible and self-isolate, even if symptoms are mild.”
Not my words | |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 08:29 - Dec 16 with 638 views | StokieBlue |
Just heard on Radio 4 that 10% of London NHS staff are off sick.
This is another element that really needs to be considered.
SB | | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 08:33 - Dec 16 with 624 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 22:22 - Dec 15 by Ely_Blue |
Which part of this from the governments own covid website and also from the covid LFT packs do people fail to understand
“ Do not use a rapid lateral flow test if you have COVID-19 symptoms. Get a PCR test as soon as possible and self-isolate, even if symptoms are mild.”
Not my words |
She took 12 in 7 days before we got her PCR result. She had no official symptoms at any stage, only getting a slight cough since the positive result which is now gone. | |
| |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 08:36 - Dec 16 with 615 views | StokieBlue |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 08:33 - Dec 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
She took 12 in 7 days before we got her PCR result. She had no official symptoms at any stage, only getting a slight cough since the positive result which is now gone. |
She might have had a very low viral load which didn't show up on the LFT (which might also be why you've not got it?).
PCR's use primers to make many copies of the genetic material in the sample so that if even a very small amount of covid is present it will be magnified and thus detectable.
They just work in different ways, a LFT should be more likely to detect covid if the baseline viral load is high enough.
SB | | | |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 08:39 - Dec 16 with 611 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some difficult discussions are going to have to be had in Westminster on 08:29 - Dec 16 by StokieBlue |
Just heard on Radio 4 that 10% of London NHS staff are off sick.
This is another element that really needs to be considered.
SB |
Just to make the point, and try not to jump down my throat, but that will be positive tests not necessarily being sick and is another reason we need to get to the bottom of the severity of this variant as soon as possible. It may be that nhs staff, well enough to do so and wearing all the appropriate kit will have to continue to work. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
