| [Redacted] on 14:32 - Feb 24 with 919 views | victorywilhappen |
| Putin declares war. on 14:20 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
Thanks for this. This is good healthy academic debate, but doesn't mean one or other is right or wrong. I'm glad you've finally moved away from all that anti-vax flex nonsense and actually engaged properly |
[Redacted] |  | |  |
| Putin declares war. on 14:32 - Feb 24 with 917 views | Wacko |
| Putin declares war. on 14:24 - Feb 24 by pointofblue |
But again you’re saying that a sovereign state should be told what it can or cannot do in terms of foreign policy because another state might get upset. How does that work in a practical sense? If Ukraine didn’t want to be part of NATO that’s fine, or if they were being coerced into it, but neither of those are true.
I did see the article’s author had said Ukraine should have kept their nuclear weapons - I bet they wish they had now. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 14:25]
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I'm not saying they should or shouldn't. I'm saying if the West want to stop the war that is about to happen, this is a possible solution. Others think it won't make a difference |  |
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| Putin declares war. on 14:34 - Feb 24 with 913 views | Wacko |
His academic arguments are my reference point, not his opinions or character. People think Ricky Gervais is a prick but they can still find him funny | |
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| Putin declares war. on 14:34 - Feb 24 with 908 views | reusersfreekicks |
You utter f@ckwit
Lucky you weren't around in 1939 to publicise Hitler's fears of attacks by other countries
All authoritarian invaders pretend they are the victims
You have been played so stop acting as if you know more |  | | |
| Putin declares war. on 14:35 - Feb 24 with 909 views | pointofblue |
| Putin declares war. on 14:32 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
I'm not saying they should or shouldn't. I'm saying if the West want to stop the war that is about to happen, this is a possible solution. Others think it won't make a difference |
But you’re allowing one sovereign nation dictate to another what it should and shouldn’t do - and bowing down to Russia in the bargain. | |
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| [Redacted] on 14:35 - Feb 24 with 909 views | victorywilhappen |
| Putin declares war. on 14:32 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
I'm not saying they should or shouldn't. I'm saying if the West want to stop the war that is about to happen, this is a possible solution. Others think it won't make a difference |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Putin declares war. on 14:36 - Feb 24 with 898 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Putin declares war. on 08:39 - Feb 24 by blueasfook |
Ordinary Ukrainians are innocent too. As will be ordinary Europeans if we allow him to continue.
Hit him quick and hard. Before he has chance to gather his senses. Hit him again. Finish Russia for good. They've been a dark cloud over Europe for 70 years. |
This is not a tv video game for ignoramuses | | | |
| Putin declares war. on 14:39 - Feb 24 with 880 views | Wacko |
I've offered sources and articles from mainstream media and the fact that pre-2014 nobody named Putin invaded Ukraine. Nothing twisted about it. Just a difference of opinion. | |
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| [Redacted] on 14:40 - Feb 24 with 869 views | victorywilhappen |
| Putin declares war. on 14:34 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
His academic arguments are my reference point, not his opinions or character. People think Ricky Gervais is a prick but they can still find him funny |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Putin declares war. on 14:41 - Feb 24 with 860 views | Mercian |
| Putin declares war. on 14:34 - Feb 24 by reusersfreekicks |
You utter f@ckwit
Lucky you weren't around in 1939 to publicise Hitler's fears of attacks by other countries
All authoritarian invaders pretend they are the victims
You have been played so stop acting as if you know more |
Careful now. Wacko seems one of the types who stand behind the bully and throw abuse but when that bully is not around acts as the victim. I called him an appeaser and he reported me for calling him a Nazi. Brave brave Sir Wacko. |  | | |
| Putin declares war. on 14:42 - Feb 24 with 854 views | Wacko |
Is an invasion war? This is semantics. Don't nitpick. I'm well aware the aggression has happened but NATO haven't engaged yet | |
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| Putin declares war. on 14:43 - Feb 24 with 848 views | WD19 |
| Putin declares war. on 10:58 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
You may be right, but like I said in other posts, we don't know until the status quo is reset to how it was before 2014. It's tough on the Ukrainians to go back to how it was, but surely it's better than an invasion?
I know we've clashed on many things in the past, but it doesn't help you getting frustrated the whole time. I'm not pushing any agenda or imposing my opinions, I'm just playing devil's advocate like I have with all other discussions we've had. I'm trying to look objectively at how and why something is happening, without letting my own morals cloud the judgement. I really hope you can refrain from one word insults and personal political attacks in the future. |
I think the root cause of any discord is you chatting sh*t.
That's just an opinion obviously. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 14:44]
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| [Redacted] on 14:43 - Feb 24 with 846 views | victorywilhappen |
| Putin declares war. on 14:39 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
I've offered sources and articles from mainstream media and the fact that pre-2014 nobody named Putin invaded Ukraine. Nothing twisted about it. Just a difference of opinion. |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Putin declares war. on 14:44 - Feb 24 with 839 views | Wacko |
I don't think you understand the academic process then if you believe the author's character / opinions / choice of tea can affect papers so easily | |
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| [Redacted] on 14:45 - Feb 24 with 834 views | victorywilhappen |
| Putin declares war. on 14:42 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
Is an invasion war? This is semantics. Don't nitpick. I'm well aware the aggression has happened but NATO haven't engaged yet |
[Redacted] | | | |
| [Redacted] on 14:48 - Feb 24 with 825 views | victorywilhappen |
| Putin declares war. on 14:44 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
I don't think you understand the academic process then if you believe the author's character / opinions / choice of tea can affect papers so easily |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Putin declares war. on 15:37 - Feb 24 with 750 views | pointofblue |
Russia have invaded a sovereign country and have now turned around and said the West do not respect international law.
I think irony meters are exploding as well as bombs near Kiev. | |
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| Putin declares war. on 15:41 - Feb 24 with 736 views | Edmundo |
| Putin declares war. on 14:34 - Feb 24 by reusersfreekicks |
You utter f@ckwit
Lucky you weren't around in 1939 to publicise Hitler's fears of attacks by other countries
All authoritarian invaders pretend they are the victims
You have been played so stop acting as if you know more |
Vladimir Putin’s stated goal is the “demilitarisation" and "denazification" of Ukraine (In response, President Zelensky, who is Jewish, asked: "How could I be a Nazi?").
I'm sorry, but anyone who sympathizes with Putin's regime should be locked up. This is bat$hit crazy stuff we haven't heard or seen since Gadaffi.
I just hope the Russians wake up and oust him too. |  |
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| Putin declares war. on 16:20 - Feb 24 with 658 views | jeera |
| Putin declares war. on 13:17 - Feb 24 by Wacko |
Or rather give him back what he had. And funnily enough I did - I also edited in an article showing exactly his immediate demands.
It's simply a question of whether you trust Putin to stick once these demands are met, or whether you think he'll up the ante. Nobody knows. But everyone is free to have an opinion. What I object to is people conflating this one localised opinion with being a dictator-sympathiser. Hence the endless pages |
"Or rather give him back what he had."
What he had?
Yes, you've linked stuff everyone has been hearing for weeks, well done. You've treated common news as though it's some special insight you have.
"whether you trust Putin to stick once these demands are met"
This is the same Putin who assured the World just a few days ago that Russia "Would not invade within the next few days, weeks, months or indeed in fact this year".
That one you mean?
"people conflating this one localised opinion with being a dictator-sympathiser."
That's precisely what you've been doing, sympathising with a dictator.
Hence the endless pages. [Post edited 24 Feb 2022 16:22]
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| Putin declares war. on 16:40 - Feb 24 with 598 views | Kropotkin123 |
I didn't want Norwich to join the Premier League, but I didn't invade Norfolk to get what I wanted. Ukraine had the right to self-determination as an independent and sovereign nation.
NATO's failing is not standing up for Ukraine, rather than not giving him assurances over what another country chooses to do. |  |
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| Putin declares war. on 16:54 - Feb 24 with 571 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Putin declares war. on 16:33 - Feb 24 by Guthrum |
The issue goes back much further than that. The reason most of those countries were queueing up to join NATO was a reaction to 44 years of Soviet Russian domination (including the odd invasion, to suppress any independent thought, plus the delights of the KGB and its imitators). What they most wanted was to prevent that happening again.
Further back again, you have to consider the Russian/Soviet desire to create a buffer against attacks from the west and to get revenge upon states like Poland and Lithuania who had threatened it in the past. |
The real objective is to overthrow the current democracy that is Ukraine and to replace it with a puppet regime much like in Belarus. This is the only way to form a buffer between Russia and Countries that are members of NATO.
If Ukraine were to become part of Russia then Russia would find it was bordered by another two NATO countries in the shape of Poland & Romania which clearly is not the solution Putin seeks. |  |
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| Putin declares war. on 16:57 - Feb 24 with 565 views | hype313 |
| Putin declares war. on 16:54 - Feb 24 by Pinewoodblue |
The real objective is to overthrow the current democracy that is Ukraine and to replace it with a puppet regime much like in Belarus. This is the only way to form a buffer between Russia and Countries that are members of NATO.
If Ukraine were to become part of Russia then Russia would find it was bordered by another two NATO countries in the shape of Poland & Romania which clearly is not the solution Putin seeks. |
Why stop at Ukraine?
This could get very messy very quickly, I just hope there are a few level headed people within the Kremlin that are looking at eachother and thinking this has gone way too far. |  |
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| Putin declares war. on 17:03 - Feb 24 with 539 views | jeera |
| Putin declares war. on 16:57 - Feb 24 by hype313 |
Why stop at Ukraine?
This could get very messy very quickly, I just hope there are a few level headed people within the Kremlin that are looking at eachother and thinking this has gone way too far. |
They are free to speak up if that's how they feel..
Although they may want to make sure they're on the ground floor at the time.
And then not eat or drink anything not prepared by themselves ever again, just to be sure. | |
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| Putin declares war. on 17:24 - Feb 24 with 649 views | pointofblue |
| Putin declares war. on 17:03 - Feb 24 by jeera |
They are free to speak up if that's how they feel..
Although they may want to make sure they're on the ground floor at the time.
And then not eat or drink anything not prepared by themselves ever again, just to be sure. |
Or sit on a park bench. Or sleep at home before boarding up all windows and doors for fear of an arson attack. Or... | |
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