| Ball in play - attendance scam 12:19 - Jan 4 with 5949 views | FrimleyBlue |
Now. This is an open question to those that attend football.
But do you as attendees feel a bit scammed out of some of the money you've spent when so much of the game is lost with ball out of play.
I read earlier that apparently Arsenal v Newcastle was something Like 46 minutes of ball in play.
As an attendee to that game.. is it right that you've paid out what you have to watch that....
It's an open question for all to discuss. I'll leave out of it from here as Its not really right for me to have a say when I don't go... |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:59 - Jan 4 with 1389 views | homer_123 |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:58 - Jan 4 by MattinLondon |
Every time a player clutches his head then he has to be off for a minimum of six minutes whilst being assessed. And, as another poster described earlier in this thread, if a player is on the ground then he has to go off and treated off the pitch for a minimum of three mins.
That’ll will eliminate a lot of feigning. |
Also, as a Ref what do you do?
Can you imagine what would happen if a ref didn't stop the game for a head injury because he thought it was fake? |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:00 - Jan 4 with 1383 views | homer_123 |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:57 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
I think people lose sight of the point of the game which is to win. It's all very well us whinging about 'sh1thousing' when we currently have a good team and would beat 20+ sides in the division in a game of pure football but do we really expect other teams to just play to our strengths? Some of the tactics like going down injured or time wasting are hugely frustrating but would anyone be bothered if Walton is taking the p1ss at 2-0 up with ten mins to go against Plymouth?
Teams do what they have to do. People weren't bothered when it was Garner down here or Alan Lee bundling himself to the ground.
If by some miracle we got to the FA Cup final against City we would likely go and defend for 90 minutes, look to nick a goal from a moment of magic or a set piece and waste as much time as we could get away with/
It's frustrating but it's football. If we get to the Prem we will see a lot more of this from our own team. |
Moreover, it's nothing new J2. | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:03 - Jan 4 with 1382 views | itfcjoe |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:52 - Jan 4 by PhilTWTD |
True, but it would almost certainly have come from the club if we were to report it and might look like they were having a pop at particular opposition clubs. |
I'd imagine if someone had a Wyscout account then they'd be able to see it easily - probably a couple of posters do so |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:04 - Jan 4 with 1375 views | Guthrum |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:58 - Jan 4 by MattinLondon |
Every time a player clutches his head then he has to be off for a minimum of six minutes whilst being assessed. And, as another poster described earlier in this thread, if a player is on the ground then he has to go off and treated off the pitch for a minimum of three mins.
That’ll will eliminate a lot of feigning. |
Or do like Rugby and allow reversible concussion/blood subs while players are assessed* or stitched up, allowing the game to continue in the meantime.
* Which would have to be regulated and time-limited. No giving a key player a rest for 25 minutes before bringing them back on to score the winner. |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:09 - Jan 4 with 1360 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:42 - Jan 4 by hype313 |
In the MLS Next Pro they take time wasting on by making players that go down for more than 15 seconds leave the pitch for 3 mins. It's worked really well.
But we won't follow suit as its an American idea. |
I didn't know that, but was going to suggest exactly that sort of thing. This would alleviate a huge part of the time wasting. We want to see excitement, and it's great when it your team on the front foot doing the attacking. Players going down to sap the momentum and excitement out of the game is robbing fans of the best parts of what we go for. Obviously if it is your team under the cosh, you won't feel quite the same way, but all true football fans would have to admit that it is cheating the better teams when one team keeps feigning injury to break up the momentum. |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:11 - Jan 4 with 1351 views | hype313 |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:04 - Jan 4 by Guthrum |
Or do like Rugby and allow reversible concussion/blood subs while players are assessed* or stitched up, allowing the game to continue in the meantime.
* Which would have to be regulated and time-limited. No giving a key player a rest for 25 minutes before bringing them back on to score the winner. |
If you're going down the Rugby route, then best to do what they do with clock stopping in the game and a siren at 90 (80 in Rugby)
That would render this whole Extra Time nonsense, although I get the impression Sky like it as the commentators always get excited when the board comes up. |  |
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| Garner rubbing his head and looking at his hand like it was bloody on 13:12 - Jan 4 with 1334 views | Dyland |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:57 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
I think people lose sight of the point of the game which is to win. It's all very well us whinging about 'sh1thousing' when we currently have a good team and would beat 20+ sides in the division in a game of pure football but do we really expect other teams to just play to our strengths? Some of the tactics like going down injured or time wasting are hugely frustrating but would anyone be bothered if Walton is taking the p1ss at 2-0 up with ten mins to go against Plymouth?
Teams do what they have to do. People weren't bothered when it was Garner down here or Alan Lee bundling himself to the ground.
If by some miracle we got to the FA Cup final against City we would likely go and defend for 90 minutes, look to nick a goal from a moment of magic or a set piece and waste as much time as we could get away with/
It's frustrating but it's football. If we get to the Prem we will see a lot more of this from our own team. |
did my head in tbh. But yes, agree with the point that teams without the same resources will do what they need to do if they can get away with it. It's not a level playing field and that's football. Klopp was moaning about this the other day and it irked me. We know. Get on with it. |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:13 - Jan 4 with 1333 views | SitfcB |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:57 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
I think people lose sight of the point of the game which is to win. It's all very well us whinging about 'sh1thousing' when we currently have a good team and would beat 20+ sides in the division in a game of pure football but do we really expect other teams to just play to our strengths? Some of the tactics like going down injured or time wasting are hugely frustrating but would anyone be bothered if Walton is taking the p1ss at 2-0 up with ten mins to go against Plymouth?
Teams do what they have to do. People weren't bothered when it was Garner down here or Alan Lee bundling himself to the ground.
If by some miracle we got to the FA Cup final against City we would likely go and defend for 90 minutes, look to nick a goal from a moment of magic or a set piece and waste as much time as we could get away with/
It's frustrating but it's football. If we get to the Prem we will see a lot more of this from our own team. |
Spot on.
Whilst it was frustrating watching Lincoln against us both times you have to say fair play to them, four points out of a possible six from us is a very decent return for them, if it were the other way round we’d be crowing about it for sure. |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:13 - Jan 4 with 1337 views | itfcjoe |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:11 - Jan 4 by hype313 |
If you're going down the Rugby route, then best to do what they do with clock stopping in the game and a siren at 90 (80 in Rugby)
That would render this whole Extra Time nonsense, although I get the impression Sky like it as the commentators always get excited when the board comes up. |
I think you just need to stop the clock after a goal, when physio is called on, when substitutions are made centrally - and let the ref manage the rest of the 'timewasting' in game by hurrying it along and making use of his yellow cards.
The ref even doing that part is a flawed system but probably the easiest way to implement something that doesn't totally change the game | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:13 - Jan 4 with 1333 views | Asa |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:58 - Jan 4 by homer_123 |
These aren't exactly new phenomena though are they?
Timewasting has been part of football forever and a day.... |
We spent about the last 5 minutes of the FA Cup final passing it back to Paul Cooper.
It's just part of football. I pay for a football match. It's not paid for by the minute the ball is in play.
It's no different to paying £10 to watch a film which might be 160 minutes long or 80 minutes long.
Yes, it's annoying more now than ever because every team we come up against sees us as a scalp, but I can recall more than once when we were struggling in 2001/02 that we wasted time like anyone when we were winning late on or holding on for a decent point.
Accrington do it at Ipswich. We'd do it at Southampton. Southampton would do it at Man City. City would do it against Real Madrid in the last minutes of the Champions League knockouts if necessary.
Not a discussion to be had for me. |  | | |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:22 - Jan 4 with 1280 views | longtimefan |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:46 - Jan 4 by hype313 |
They brought in the 6 second rule for keepers a few years ago, but like all other ideas, after the first couple of games its completely forgotten. |
Another law change that now annoys me is the keeper being able to take goal kicks where they want. Seemed sensible at first but has now been added to the armoury of time wasting tactics where the keeper will just take it from the side that wastes most time. [Post edited 4 Jan 2023 13:30]
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:24 - Jan 4 with 1263 views | Guthrum |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:13 - Jan 4 by itfcjoe |
I think you just need to stop the clock after a goal, when physio is called on, when substitutions are made centrally - and let the ref manage the rest of the 'timewasting' in game by hurrying it along and making use of his yellow cards.
The ref even doing that part is a flawed system but probably the easiest way to implement something that doesn't totally change the game |
Indeed. In Rugby, the ref actually has to request the clock be stopped for injuries and discipline situations, doesn't happen automatically. Plus, of course, after time is up, play continues until a stoppage occurs.
Otherwise you end up with a situation like American Football, where the game just gets stretched enormously. | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:27 - Jan 4 with 1250 views | FifeITFC |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:57 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
I think people lose sight of the point of the game which is to win. It's all very well us whinging about 'sh1thousing' when we currently have a good team and would beat 20+ sides in the division in a game of pure football but do we really expect other teams to just play to our strengths? Some of the tactics like going down injured or time wasting are hugely frustrating but would anyone be bothered if Walton is taking the p1ss at 2-0 up with ten mins to go against Plymouth?
Teams do what they have to do. People weren't bothered when it was Garner down here or Alan Lee bundling himself to the ground.
If by some miracle we got to the FA Cup final against City we would likely go and defend for 90 minutes, look to nick a goal from a moment of magic or a set piece and waste as much time as we could get away with/
It's frustrating but it's football. If we get to the Prem we will see a lot more of this from our own team. |
Likewise, if we ever find ourselves back in the Premiership against the big sides, I'm sure we'd be doing the same to cling onto a result against the Arsenals, Man Citys, Chelseas, Liverpools, Uniteds etc.
And I can bet not one of our fans would complain about it either. It would be seen as a good result and we'd be encouraging team to do whatever we could to secure the point(s). |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:28 - Jan 4 with 1247 views | Garv |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:57 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
I think people lose sight of the point of the game which is to win. It's all very well us whinging about 'sh1thousing' when we currently have a good team and would beat 20+ sides in the division in a game of pure football but do we really expect other teams to just play to our strengths? Some of the tactics like going down injured or time wasting are hugely frustrating but would anyone be bothered if Walton is taking the p1ss at 2-0 up with ten mins to go against Plymouth?
Teams do what they have to do. People weren't bothered when it was Garner down here or Alan Lee bundling himself to the ground.
If by some miracle we got to the FA Cup final against City we would likely go and defend for 90 minutes, look to nick a goal from a moment of magic or a set piece and waste as much time as we could get away with/
It's frustrating but it's football. If we get to the Prem we will see a lot more of this from our own team. |
You're right, but you're looking at it from the players and clubs' perspectives.
Arguably the point of game is entertainment and spectacle. It's up to those in charge of the game to make sure the spectacle isn't ruined by people trying to win at all costs. That's almost impossible now with the money in the game, but more could be done. |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:10 - Jan 4 with 1174 views | PhilTWTD |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 13:03 - Jan 4 by itfcjoe |
I'd imagine if someone had a Wyscout account then they'd be able to see it easily - probably a couple of posters do so |
You may well be right. |  | | |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:41 - Jan 4 with 1127 views | SomethingBlue |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:10 - Jan 4 by PhilTWTD |
You may well be right. |
Most recent example: 57 min 23 sec of "dead time" vs Lincoln, with 48 min 37 sec of "pure possession" (12 min of that from Lincoln). Probably says it all ... not got time to go through a whole bunch but 57 min is most definitely on the high side. | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:48 - Jan 4 with 1100 views | Metal_Hacker |
Think this encompasses two conversations because when I attend a game and buy my ticket I'm doing jut that - attending the game however long the game might be and how ever long the ball is in play
Alternative theory being then is this , if the game is a cup game and it goes into extra time , do the club have officials outside the ground collecting extra money because the game you paid for was an extra 30 mins long ?
Other conversation being - do I think time wasting should be stamped on and eradicated ?-TOO RIGHT !! I like the US football rule I saw someone post earlier - if you're down for more than 15 seconds or something you're off for 3 minutes |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:53 - Jan 4 with 1069 views | SitfcB |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:41 - Jan 4 by SomethingBlue |
Most recent example: 57 min 23 sec of "dead time" vs Lincoln, with 48 min 37 sec of "pure possession" (12 min of that from Lincoln). Probably says it all ... not got time to go through a whole bunch but 57 min is most definitely on the high side. |
What is classed as dead time? Obviously when the ball goes out, players down, goal kicks? | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:54 - Jan 4 with 1069 views | J2BLUE |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:48 - Jan 4 by Metal_Hacker |
Think this encompasses two conversations because when I attend a game and buy my ticket I'm doing jut that - attending the game however long the game might be and how ever long the ball is in play
Alternative theory being then is this , if the game is a cup game and it goes into extra time , do the club have officials outside the ground collecting extra money because the game you paid for was an extra 30 mins long ?
Other conversation being - do I think time wasting should be stamped on and eradicated ?-TOO RIGHT !! I like the US football rule I saw someone post earlier - if you're down for more than 15 seconds or something you're off for 3 minutes |
Not sure that first point makes a lot of sense. If you are buying tickets to a cup tie everyone knows the possible outcomes before it starts. |  |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:55 - Jan 4 with 1066 views | itfcjoe |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:58 - Jan 4 by homer_123 |
These aren't exactly new phenomena though are they?
Timewasting has been part of football forever and a day.... |
But does that mean things shouldn't be done to try and stop them? The authorities have to keep pushing to make the spectacle better and push harder against those who want to make it worse.
Otherwise sport eventually becomes unwatchable to those in the ground | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:58 - Jan 4 with 1056 views | Sharkey |
I get annoyed that games are so long. I don’t want ten minutes extra time because of all the time wasting (3-minute goal celebrations, fictional head injuries etc) . I want a beer after the game . ( I also don’t know why evening games have to start so late. What was wrong with 7.30?) |  | | |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 15:00 - Jan 4 with 1043 views | homer_123 |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 14:55 - Jan 4 by itfcjoe |
But does that mean things shouldn't be done to try and stop them? The authorities have to keep pushing to make the spectacle better and push harder against those who want to make it worse.
Otherwise sport eventually becomes unwatchable to those in the ground |
That assumes that you don't end up taking away from the game what actually makes it what it is.
VAR is a really good example. It has actually made things worse, made football less of a spectacle and less interesting as a result. | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 15:03 - Jan 4 with 1026 views | J2BLUE |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 15:00 - Jan 4 by homer_123 |
That assumes that you don't end up taking away from the game what actually makes it what it is.
VAR is a really good example. It has actually made things worse, made football less of a spectacle and less interesting as a result. |
Good tech - goal line tech
'Bad' tech - VAR when it is used how it is. They should get 3 replays in slow motion from different angles. If you can't overturn it based on that then it isn't clear and obvious. They tell us it's for clear and obvious errors then they draw the lines and take 3 minutes to work out if someone was 1mm offside.
Obviously the tech itself is not really bad but the way we use it is stupid. | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 15:06 - Jan 4 with 1001 views | homer_123 |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 15:03 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
Good tech - goal line tech
'Bad' tech - VAR when it is used how it is. They should get 3 replays in slow motion from different angles. If you can't overturn it based on that then it isn't clear and obvious. They tell us it's for clear and obvious errors then they draw the lines and take 3 minutes to work out if someone was 1mm offside.
Obviously the tech itself is not really bad but the way we use it is stupid. |
Yep, agreed. | |
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| Ball in play - attendance scam on 16:21 - Jan 4 with 922 views | hadleighboyblue |
| Ball in play - attendance scam on 12:46 - Jan 4 by hype313 |
They brought in the 6 second rule for keepers a few years ago, but like all other ideas, after the first couple of games its completely forgotten. |
I might be wrong but I think that rule still exists , as well as not standing over the ball to prevent a free kick .
Football needs to look at improving things . Rugby is cutting out time wasting and dissent , so why can't football . | | | |
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