| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate 09:26 - Feb 15 with 20117 views | tractordownsouth |
Big choice for momentum now if he contests the election as an independent. Their MPs are mostly from the newer intakes and they won’t want to give up their jobs to campaign for Corbyn against a Labour candidate, but having alienated the moderate factions they need his base on board. [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 9:28]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:36 - Feb 16 with 1503 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:26 - Feb 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
1916, Cromwell....up the RA! What is the time limit on moral outrage? Fan of Rangers too aren't you.
Imagine there being 2 sides in an armed conflict. I guess at the end of the day it's all about where your sympathies lie. |
No I’m not a Rangers fan. I support Ipswich. I thought they did a very good tribute to Her Maj after her death. I despise the sectarian vitriol spouted by Rangers and Celtic fans. That’s why I was determined to bring my boy up as a Town fan, despite his school mates peer pressure.
Yes, there are two sides to an armed conflict. I tend not to side with the people who are planting bombs in bins outside of McDonalds and in pubs, with the sole intention to kill and maim British civilians, including innocent little kids.
Anyway, to paraphrase Badger, what is it about the terrorist supporting, antisemitic former leader of the Labour party that appeals to you banksy. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 22:39]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:43 - Feb 16 with 1484 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:14 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
So joking about hanging a female MP and supporting the IRA diesnt change your admiration for John McDonnell?
Blimey. |
I don't know John McDonnell's real views on the IRA but he is of Irish Catholic descent, so that may well influence his views.
The thing is that the situation in Ireland is complicated, with Catholics seeing the IRA as freedom fighters and Protestants seeing them as terrorists (but then again the Proddies had their own terrorists who I think carried out more sectarian killings than the IRA). As a result, I do not think it is a proper subject for the sort of knock-about that you are engaged in. In any event, millions of people in Ireland have supported the IRA over time but surely we can't condemn them all.
The good thing is we've moved on from the Troubles, and we even ended up with Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness (an actual member of the IRA) as the Chuckle Brothers. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 22:53]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 23:04 - Feb 16 with 1433 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:43 - Feb 16 by DJR |
I don't know John McDonnell's real views on the IRA but he is of Irish Catholic descent, so that may well influence his views.
The thing is that the situation in Ireland is complicated, with Catholics seeing the IRA as freedom fighters and Protestants seeing them as terrorists (but then again the Proddies had their own terrorists who I think carried out more sectarian killings than the IRA). As a result, I do not think it is a proper subject for the sort of knock-about that you are engaged in. In any event, millions of people in Ireland have supported the IRA over time but surely we can't condemn them all.
The good thing is we've moved on from the Troubles, and we even ended up with Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness (an actual member of the IRA) as the Chuckle Brothers. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 22:53]
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Bit of a stereotype to generalise that all Northern Irish Catholics saw the IRA as freedom fighters. You may have heard of people like Seamus Mallon and John Hume. Many Catholics supported a peaceful reunification if an Ireland through the SDLP.
There seems to be a lot of revision these days regarding the IRA. They were vile terrorists who had no morals about who they murdered. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 23:21 - Feb 16 with 1410 views | tractordownsouth |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:12 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
The best option is probably the Green Party at the moment, in England anyway. We're close to being at the same point we were under New Labour where the Lib Dems actually end up being the 'left' option of the three main parties simply by remaining in the centre and watching Labour drift rightwards. We might already be there to be fair. |
I don’t see what the Green Party offers to be honest. Their NIMBYism shows their lack of interest in young people and seriously investing in our future and I don’t see any realistic climate solutions from them either. The party name makes them attractive to younger people but the main beneficiaries of their policies are wealthy southerners who object to any new developments because don’t want their £1m houses to fall in value.
And all of Starmer’s move away from Corbynism, his biggest policy commitment so far has been on climate investment so the Greens aren’t even an effective left-wing protest vote.
Their views on NATO and the UK aren’t for me either but that’s a separate issue. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 23:27 - Feb 16 with 1390 views | tractordownsouth |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:26 - Feb 16 by thebooks |
Problem is that politics is so volatile now. Simply offering something possibly slightly better won't actually solve the problems that gave rise to Trump, Brexit etc. etc. I see very little legacy from New Labour, apart from PFI and comms and PR.
Also, I think Lab will win so comfortably we might be in a rare position where a vote for the Greens or Corbyn is possible without then letting the Tories in. It's also possible the Greens pick up a few extra seats in places like Bristol because of Starmer (which might pose a longterm problem for Labour, once voting Green is seen as a viable option). |
I can’t see the Greens picking up that seat. When they took Brighton Pavillion from Labour, it was against a party losing office after 13 years in government. They’ve got a much bigger majority to overturn in Bristol and Labour is on an upward curve nationally so won’t be an easy target for a protest vote.
Starmer will definitely put off a chunk of Corbyn voters but I don’t think it will be as many as predicted. Given the cost of living, I reckon many people won’t have the luxury of casting a factional protest vote and will give Labour the benefit of the doubt even if they’re not sold on the leader. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 07:38 - Feb 17 with 1290 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 23:04 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Bit of a stereotype to generalise that all Northern Irish Catholics saw the IRA as freedom fighters. You may have heard of people like Seamus Mallon and John Hume. Many Catholics supported a peaceful reunification if an Ireland through the SDLP.
There seems to be a lot of revision these days regarding the IRA. They were vile terrorists who had no morals about who they murdered. |
Whereas the party you voted for until 2019 only targeted the poor and the vulnerable, so that's okay I guess: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000-excess-deaths-in-gr
I am not comparing the Tories and the IRA by the way, not comparing them. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 07:59 - Feb 17 with 1256 views | GlasgowBlue |
Oh Herbie it’s great to have you back. However short your return will probably be before your next banning. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:13 - Feb 17 with 1227 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:36 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
No I’m not a Rangers fan. I support Ipswich. I thought they did a very good tribute to Her Maj after her death. I despise the sectarian vitriol spouted by Rangers and Celtic fans. That’s why I was determined to bring my boy up as a Town fan, despite his school mates peer pressure.
Yes, there are two sides to an armed conflict. I tend not to side with the people who are planting bombs in bins outside of McDonalds and in pubs, with the sole intention to kill and maim British civilians, including innocent little kids.
Anyway, to paraphrase Badger, what is it about the terrorist supporting, antisemitic former leader of the Labour party that appeals to you banksy. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 22:39]
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The policies proposed by his party. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:50 - Feb 17 with 1171 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 23:04 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Bit of a stereotype to generalise that all Northern Irish Catholics saw the IRA as freedom fighters. You may have heard of people like Seamus Mallon and John Hume. Many Catholics supported a peaceful reunification if an Ireland through the SDLP.
There seems to be a lot of revision these days regarding the IRA. They were vile terrorists who had no morals about who they murdered. |
You are absolutely right to point out the role of the admirable John Hume who received the Nobel Peace Prize.
The point I was trying to make, perhaps clumsily, is that it seems to me (and I may be completely wrong because I am not Irish and not an expert in Irish history) that the IRA (which has had several guises) appears to have an almost mythical status. In Irish law, what is now known as the Old IRA was the army of the revolutionary Irish Republic as declared by its parliament, Dáil Éireann, in 1919. It was subsequently recognized by the Dáil as the legitimate army of the Irish Republic in April 1921 due to the fact that it had fought in the Irish War of Independence. And it is not clear to me that what happened during the Troubles, involving a later version of the IRA, affected what seems to me to be a rather romantic attachment to the IRA (both in Ireland and the States), whether or not people actually supported their violent action. Indeed, it seems to me that this rather romantic view is reflected, say, in the fact that the Irish women's football team recently sang a rebel song which was caught on video, or the fact that Sinn Fein now get the vast majority of Catholic votes.
As regards the Troubles themselves, my sympathies at the time lay with the Unionists perhaps because my parents were Scottish Presbyterians. But as I have grown older and learnt more, I have come round to support for a united Ireland, but I rather doubt that will ever happen because there appear to be a sizable number of Catholics who do not support it.
Personally I think violence should always be avoided if at all possible. But life isn't always that simple, and sometimes the passage of time changes perceptions. It mustn't be forgotten, say, that Nelson Mandela was once regarded as a terrorist. And Menachem Begin was the leader of the insurgency in Mandatory Palestine, and ordered the bombing of a hotel which led to the deaths of 91 people. Of course, one could label him as a terrorist and dismiss everything he subsequently did, but I tend to think he ought to be judged on the cause he fought for (the establishment of the State of Israel) and his achievements as Prime Minister of Israel including the peace deal with Egypt. But of course, anyone who lost family in the bombing will presumably feel very differently. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 10:01]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 10:22 - Feb 17 with 1146 views | leitrimblue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:36 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
No I’m not a Rangers fan. I support Ipswich. I thought they did a very good tribute to Her Maj after her death. I despise the sectarian vitriol spouted by Rangers and Celtic fans. That’s why I was determined to bring my boy up as a Town fan, despite his school mates peer pressure.
Yes, there are two sides to an armed conflict. I tend not to side with the people who are planting bombs in bins outside of McDonalds and in pubs, with the sole intention to kill and maim British civilians, including innocent little kids.
Anyway, to paraphrase Badger, what is it about the terrorist supporting, antisemitic former leader of the Labour party that appeals to you banksy. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 22:39]
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What a supremely well researched and balanced analysis of the conflict in Ireland. You should be an historian. Go on do the Falklands next. 'Spicks gave it the bug un and Maggie sent our boys down to smash um'? |  | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 10:44 - Feb 17 with 1116 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:36 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
No I’m not a Rangers fan. I support Ipswich. I thought they did a very good tribute to Her Maj after her death. I despise the sectarian vitriol spouted by Rangers and Celtic fans. That’s why I was determined to bring my boy up as a Town fan, despite his school mates peer pressure.
Yes, there are two sides to an armed conflict. I tend not to side with the people who are planting bombs in bins outside of McDonalds and in pubs, with the sole intention to kill and maim British civilians, including innocent little kids.
Anyway, to paraphrase Badger, what is it about the terrorist supporting, antisemitic former leader of the Labour party that appeals to you banksy. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 22:39]
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Just relentless smearing and dishonesty from you.
Corbyn is apparently a “terrorist-supporting antisemite” yet there are no grounds to expel him from the party? Even with the current party expelling progressives for minor infractions?
The gap between your bad faith misrepresentations and reality is as wide as the Atlantic. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 10:54 - Feb 17 with 1078 views | Blueschev |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 10:44 - Feb 17 by Darth_Koont |
Just relentless smearing and dishonesty from you.
Corbyn is apparently a “terrorist-supporting antisemite” yet there are no grounds to expel him from the party? Even with the current party expelling progressives for minor infractions?
The gap between your bad faith misrepresentations and reality is as wide as the Atlantic. |
It's a bizarre time we're living in where the right have successfully convinced many people that it's Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell who are the racists. |  | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 12:08 - Feb 17 with 1008 views | itfcjoe |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 21:38 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
So that’s a tick for his misogynistic incitement to violence.
Next up. His support for the IRA when they were blowing up kids outside of McDonalds? |
I think there is a difference that McDonnell is happy to own what he has said and defend it, whereas Corbyn just gets angry at anyone who calls him out on anything and talks around the point.
McDonnell's straight talking, and ability to try and compromise on issues which he did throughout the project showed he had much more political nous than Corbyn |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 12:25 - Feb 17 with 979 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 10:54 - Feb 17 by Blueschev |
It's a bizarre time we're living in where the right have successfully convinced many people that it's Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell who are the racists. |
Indeed. Whether it’s the Tories, current Labour Party or the vast majority of the media, the right-wingers have little to say except attacking the left.
They’ve got no policies worth a damn. No admission that they’ve failed the country for decades. No understanding of the world outside. No vision for the future. No hope. Just their own ambition and self-interest still being presented as the solution when it’s patently been the problem in the first place.
They seem to be doing little else than trying to convince people that up is down, white is black and that the whole clownish sh1tshow is actually a roaring democratic success. Luckily it’s all a game and isn’t screwing over millions of people ... oh. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 12:53 - Feb 17 with 939 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 12:25 - Feb 17 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. Whether it’s the Tories, current Labour Party or the vast majority of the media, the right-wingers have little to say except attacking the left.
They’ve got no policies worth a damn. No admission that they’ve failed the country for decades. No understanding of the world outside. No vision for the future. No hope. Just their own ambition and self-interest still being presented as the solution when it’s patently been the problem in the first place.
They seem to be doing little else than trying to convince people that up is down, white is black and that the whole clownish sh1tshow is actually a roaring democratic success. Luckily it’s all a game and isn’t screwing over millions of people ... oh. |
saying the tories, labour, and "the vast majority of the media"(who do you exclude? socialist worker obvs, but anyone else?) are the same is as bad as conflating corbyn/hezbollah.
lazy student grant hyperbole |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 13:07 - Feb 17 with 904 views | Blueschev |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 12:53 - Feb 17 by positivity |
saying the tories, labour, and "the vast majority of the media"(who do you exclude? socialist worker obvs, but anyone else?) are the same is as bad as conflating corbyn/hezbollah.
lazy student grant hyperbole |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 13:11 - Feb 17 with 900 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 13:07 - Feb 17 by Blueschev |
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whereas koonters and the rest of the judean liberation front will vote for no-one and enable kang! | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 13:44 - Feb 17 with 848 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 10:54 - Feb 17 by Blueschev |
It's a bizarre time we're living in where the right have successfully convinced many people that it's Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell who are the racists. |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:13 - Feb 17 with 800 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 12:08 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
I think there is a difference that McDonnell is happy to own what he has said and defend it, whereas Corbyn just gets angry at anyone who calls him out on anything and talks around the point.
McDonnell's straight talking, and ability to try and compromise on issues which he did throughout the project showed he had much more political nous than Corbyn |
I think that's fair about McDonnell. Abbott, as well was honest enough to admit her support for the IRA during their terror campaign against British citizens.
Corbyn is far more slippery. That's why he had people like Chris Williamson around him during his time as leaders, saying the things he'd like to say but wasn't allowed to because of his position.
Whatever happened to Williamson btw? Oh that's right, he's now a paid up member of the Iranian regime pushing anti semitic conspiracy theories and pro Putin propaganda on Press TV.
We used to have a poster on here who would staunchly defend Chris Williamson and all he stood for. Unfortunately his name escapes me. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:18 - Feb 17 with 794 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:13 - Feb 17 by GlasgowBlue |
I think that's fair about McDonnell. Abbott, as well was honest enough to admit her support for the IRA during their terror campaign against British citizens.
Corbyn is far more slippery. That's why he had people like Chris Williamson around him during his time as leaders, saying the things he'd like to say but wasn't allowed to because of his position.
Whatever happened to Williamson btw? Oh that's right, he's now a paid up member of the Iranian regime pushing anti semitic conspiracy theories and pro Putin propaganda on Press TV.
We used to have a poster on here who would staunchly defend Chris Williamson and all he stood for. Unfortunately his name escapes me. |
Sigh.
Smearers gonna smear. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:26 - Feb 17 with 780 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 12:53 - Feb 17 by positivity |
saying the tories, labour, and "the vast majority of the media"(who do you exclude? socialist worker obvs, but anyone else?) are the same is as bad as conflating corbyn/hezbollah.
lazy student grant hyperbole |
With all due respect, you don’t seem to know what right-wing politics looks like. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:30 - Feb 17 with 754 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:26 - Feb 17 by Darth_Koont |
With all due respect, you don’t seem to know what right-wing politics looks like. |
Now the next general election is coming into view, who do you reckon you'll be advocating for? don't say the SNP as that's cheating! |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:32 - Feb 17 with 746 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:26 - Feb 17 by Darth_Koont |
With all due respect, you don’t seem to know what right-wing politics looks like. |
i'm very aware of what is (and more importantly what isn't) right-wing. the current labour party with starmer/rayner/lammy/burnham/abbott/mcdonell clearly isn't
which parts of the media are exempt from the dk opprobrium? | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:39 - Feb 17 with 737 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:30 - Feb 17 by giant_stow |
Now the next general election is coming into view, who do you reckon you'll be advocating for? don't say the SNP as that's cheating! |
everyone apart from the workers party of britain comes under his definition of "right wing", so the choices are limited.
guessing that his vote or lack of it enables the tories to win, meaning he can keep moaning. win-win! | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:41 - Feb 17 with 734 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:32 - Feb 17 by positivity |
i'm very aware of what is (and more importantly what isn't) right-wing. the current labour party with starmer/rayner/lammy/burnham/abbott/mcdonell clearly isn't
which parts of the media are exempt from the dk opprobrium? |
I'd say they are centre right. Definitely to the right economically, fairly centrist socially. | |
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