| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate 09:26 - Feb 15 with 20118 views | tractordownsouth |
Big choice for momentum now if he contests the election as an independent. Their MPs are mostly from the newer intakes and they won’t want to give up their jobs to campaign for Corbyn against a Labour candidate, but having alienated the moderate factions they need his base on board. [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 9:28]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:50 - Feb 17 with 1450 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:42 - Feb 17 by positivity |
thatcher's politics were right wing, but not extreme right (cf bolsonaro/trump/mussolini).
it's not normalised in any way in any of the communities that i've lived in, and certainly not in the labour party in my lifetime |
I'm speaking primarily economically at the minute, but it's hard to see how you get much further right than the unfettered privatisation of property and social goods that we've seen in the UK over the past 40 years. We tend to see it as normal, but it really isn't. I don't see much from Starmer that's going to drastically challenge the neoliberal status quo. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:02 - Feb 17 with 1396 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:50 - Feb 17 by Herbivore |
I'm speaking primarily economically at the minute, but it's hard to see how you get much further right than the unfettered privatisation of property and social goods that we've seen in the UK over the past 40 years. We tend to see it as normal, but it really isn't. I don't see much from Starmer that's going to drastically challenge the neoliberal status quo. |
that's the thing though, no party who drastically challenge the status quo will get elected, you have to do it more slowly, show it works.
the partial nationalisation of the health service by the 1945 govt was only possible due to the exceptional circumstances.
there's certainly public appetite for some nationalisation, but a complete reversal of thatcher's policies have to be a long term goal rather than in one manifesto, the costs would be astronomical in one go |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:53 - Feb 17 with 1358 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:33 - Feb 17 by positivity |
interesting graphic thanks, '55's a bit before my time; seems odd that they were right of the sun back then! |
The Sun's change in political stance roughly coincided with the takeover by Rupert Murdoch in 1969, but he was nothing if not opportunistic in supporting Labour during the Blair years, partly because it was in his financial interests to back a winner but maybe more importantly because he thought the Thatcher legacy was safe with Blair.
It will be interesting to see what happens with Starmer, if the current Labour lead is maintained until the next election, but at present there is no evidence of the Sun changing tack from support for the Tories. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 17:54]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:58 - Feb 17 with 1346 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:42 - Feb 17 by positivity |
thatcher's politics were right wing, but not extreme right (cf bolsonaro/trump/mussolini).
it's not normalised in any way in any of the communities that i've lived in, and certainly not in the labour party in my lifetime |
I'm not playing.....you're clearly deluded. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:07 - Feb 17 with 1317 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:53 - Feb 17 by DJR |
The Sun's change in political stance roughly coincided with the takeover by Rupert Murdoch in 1969, but he was nothing if not opportunistic in supporting Labour during the Blair years, partly because it was in his financial interests to back a winner but maybe more importantly because he thought the Thatcher legacy was safe with Blair.
It will be interesting to see what happens with Starmer, if the current Labour lead is maintained until the next election, but at present there is no evidence of the Sun changing tack from support for the Tories. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 17:54]
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i think there was a certain amount of blair courting murdoch which i can't see labour doing now.
the power of the sun is very much denuded compared with the blair years | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:10 - Feb 17 with 1313 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:58 - Feb 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I'm not playing.....you're clearly deluded. |
guessing you're the dictionary definition of sanity?
looking forward to your magical thinking changing things in the real world! | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:14 - Feb 17 with 1308 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:07 - Feb 17 by positivity |
i think there was a certain amount of blair courting murdoch which i can't see labour doing now.
the power of the sun is very much denuded compared with the blair years |
You're absolutely right about the courting but I'm not so sure about your second point because on issues like immigration, Brexit, the culture wars, and setting the agenda more generally, papers like the Sun and Mail (including their online output) still appear to me to have great influence.
Interestingly, the MailOnline is the most visited English-language newspaper website in the world. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 18:30]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:16 - Feb 17 with 1292 views | tractordownsouth |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:22 - Feb 17 by Blueschev |
I'd say the 2017 and 2019 manifestos were very much centre left, and not much of a shift from Miliband. |
Miliband went into 2015 promising spending cuts, so his manifesto was more right-wing than New Labour’s. Without that manifesto, Corbyn wouldn’t have had the space to win the leadership. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:19 - Feb 17 with 1277 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:10 - Feb 17 by positivity |
guessing you're the dictionary definition of sanity?
looking forward to your magical thinking changing things in the real world! |
Magical left field thinking, you'd love it.
How has all that grown up thinking been going for you as far as improving things in the 'real World?' And why is it so important to you to pretend that the current LP is 'left?' Just embrace your center rightism. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:25 - Feb 17 with 1253 views | Blueschev |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:16 - Feb 17 by tractordownsouth |
Miliband went into 2015 promising spending cuts, so his manifesto was more right-wing than New Labour’s. Without that manifesto, Corbyn wouldn’t have had the space to win the leadership. |
I'm not sure your last point is true. There was a reason why it was made so difficult for a left winger to get on to the leadership ballot, that being the political leanings of the membership. As soon as Corbyn got over the threshold I was certain he was going to win. The Labour hierarchy view the membership as a nuisance that are only good for doing the donkey work at branch meetings and election campaigns. Well, that has always been my experience. |  | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:28 - Feb 17 with 1231 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:19 - Feb 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Magical left field thinking, you'd love it.
How has all that grown up thinking been going for you as far as improving things in the 'real World?' And why is it so important to you to pretend that the current LP is 'left?' Just embrace your center rightism. |
bit rich from a brexiter, even a lefty one. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:30 - Feb 17 with 1210 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:19 - Feb 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Magical left field thinking, you'd love it.
How has all that grown up thinking been going for you as far as improving things in the 'real World?' And why is it so important to you to pretend that the current LP is 'left?' Just embrace your center rightism. |
the smoking ban has saved thousands of lives, same with the massive public health investment.
what has your black flag anarchism achieved?
how many people's lives have been improved by your wishing really, really, really hard for change to come?
just embrace your irrelevance, i'll stay on the left making as much difference i can, by voting for whichever is the most left wing *and* electable party. currently that's the labour party by some distance [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 18:43]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:36 - Feb 17 with 1192 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:14 - Feb 17 by DJR |
You're absolutely right about the courting but I'm not so sure about your second point because on issues like immigration, Brexit, the culture wars, and setting the agenda more generally, papers like the Sun and Mail (including their online output) still appear to me to have great influence.
Interestingly, the MailOnline is the most visited English-language newspaper website in the world. [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 18:30]
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the mail aren't as opportunistic as murdoch though, they're not interested in backing a winner, just perpetuating their culture wars.
interesting about the mail, not sure if that proves an influence on voting or just pushing clicks with their sidebar of shame... | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:53 - Feb 17 with 1155 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:30 - Feb 17 by positivity |
the smoking ban has saved thousands of lives, same with the massive public health investment.
what has your black flag anarchism achieved?
how many people's lives have been improved by your wishing really, really, really hard for change to come?
just embrace your irrelevance, i'll stay on the left making as much difference i can, by voting for whichever is the most left wing *and* electable party. currently that's the labour party by some distance [Post edited 17 Feb 2023 18:43]
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"how many people's lives have been improved by has your wishing really, really, really hard for change to come?"
I have lost count of the number of people whose lives have been made richer and improved from having me in them! All the anarchists I know and have known have been active in their wider communities for the better.
"Â i'll stay on the left making as much difference i can, by voting for whichever is the most left wing *and* electable party."
You didn't vote for Corbyn then? Sounds like you literally give your power away with that once every five years 'x'. Real difference comes from actually doing stuff.
Oh and the flag is red and black!! | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:02 - Feb 17 with 1118 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:53 - Feb 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"how many people's lives have been improved by has your wishing really, really, really hard for change to come?"
I have lost count of the number of people whose lives have been made richer and improved from having me in them! All the anarchists I know and have known have been active in their wider communities for the better.
"Â i'll stay on the left making as much difference i can, by voting for whichever is the most left wing *and* electable party."
You didn't vote for Corbyn then? Sounds like you literally give your power away with that once every five years 'x'. Real difference comes from actually doing stuff.
Oh and the flag is red and black!! |
being nice is laudable, but you can be nice *and* make macro improvements to massive amounts more people lives by voting for the best electable candidate.
of course i voted for corbyn's labour, they were the most left wing electable party in my constituency. who did you vote for, or did you just let boris in by not voting?
sorry, the flag looks black on my monitor, i haven't got the magical thinking filter you clearly have! | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:11 - Feb 17 with 1111 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:02 - Feb 17 by positivity |
being nice is laudable, but you can be nice *and* make macro improvements to massive amounts more people lives by voting for the best electable candidate.
of course i voted for corbyn's labour, they were the most left wing electable party in my constituency. who did you vote for, or did you just let boris in by not voting?
sorry, the flag looks black on my monitor, i haven't got the magical thinking filter you clearly have! |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism#:~:text=Anarcho%2Dsyndicalis | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:18 - Feb 17 with 1095 views | tractordownsouth |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:25 - Feb 17 by Blueschev |
I'm not sure your last point is true. There was a reason why it was made so difficult for a left winger to get on to the leadership ballot, that being the political leanings of the membership. As soon as Corbyn got over the threshold I was certain he was going to win. The Labour hierarchy view the membership as a nuisance that are only good for doing the donkey work at branch meetings and election campaigns. Well, that has always been my experience. |
The membership isn’t always the most left-wing aspect. If it had been down to members, David Miliband would have won in 2010, it was the union vote that swung it to Ed.
Corbyn won in 2015 because New Labour and the soft-left had both lost elections in the previous 5 years so the SCG faction was seen as fresh, having not run the party since the 1980s.
There’s a really good section on the membership in Left Out, the book about the Corbyn years. Very few members are factional and Corbyn’s win in 2015 can largely be attributed to the poor campaigns of others. In 2016, members largely felt he hadn’t been given a fair crack of the whip so were willing to back him again. By 2016, the continuity candidate Rebecca Long Bailey suffered because she represented a group which had presided over 2 defeats. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:23 - Feb 17 with 1079 views | GlasgowBlue |
You're missing a letter in the bottom left hand corner mate ;-) |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:42 - Feb 17 with 1043 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:23 - Feb 17 by GlasgowBlue |
You're missing a letter in the bottom left hand corner mate ;-) |
....just admit it GB, even your life has been a little richer since I came into it! | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 21:45 - Feb 17 with 971 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:42 - Feb 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
....just admit it GB, even your life has been a little richer since I came into it! |
Oh absolutely. This place would be poorer without you. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 22:47 - Feb 17 with 935 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:23 - Feb 17 by GlasgowBlue |
You're missing a letter in the bottom left hand corner mate ;-) |
can i guess? is it a u?
as in the proper spelling of canute (unacceptable language apparently!!) to symbolise the futility of expecting the greater force (waves/late period capitalism) to yield simply through force of will? | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:19 - Feb 19 with 751 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:46 - Feb 15 by DJR |
This is really just part of the campaign to rid the Labour Party of people from the left, which is manifesting itself in selections for seats, as well as today's Times' interview with Starmer in which he effectively tells such people to leave the Party.
I watched something in which both Michael Crick (the journalist) and Claire Short (the former Labour minister) thought this was wrong thing to be doing. Crick suggested it was a sign of Starmer's weakness given that previous Labour leaders had tolerated (and even had in their Cabinet) people from the left. Short thought it would lead to bad decision-making because the party was left with too many people who thought the same |
Following on from my earlier post, interesting to see that Joe Biden has welcomed Bernie Sanders into the fold, and even adopted some of his policies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/19/bernie-sanders-oligarchs-ok-angr
Leaving aside any issues with Corbyn, my particular concern is the open attack on people in the Party on the left.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/19/leftwing-labour-mps-fear-losing
The problem it seems to me is that longstanding members of the Labour Party (like me) are effectively being treated as evil incarnate for having the audacity to have views that don't accord with the leadership.
Rather bizarrely, it it McCarthyism but coming from the supposed left, not the right. And it doesn't seem to accord with what is says on my membership card, namely, that Labour is a democratic socialist party. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 16:33]
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:59 - Feb 19 with 704 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:19 - Feb 19 by DJR |
Following on from my earlier post, interesting to see that Joe Biden has welcomed Bernie Sanders into the fold, and even adopted some of his policies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/19/bernie-sanders-oligarchs-ok-angr
Leaving aside any issues with Corbyn, my particular concern is the open attack on people in the Party on the left.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/19/leftwing-labour-mps-fear-losing
The problem it seems to me is that longstanding members of the Labour Party (like me) are effectively being treated as evil incarnate for having the audacity to have views that don't accord with the leadership.
Rather bizarrely, it it McCarthyism but coming from the supposed left, not the right. And it doesn't seem to accord with what is says on my membership card, namely, that Labour is a democratic socialist party. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 16:33]
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Seeing a lot of this “a purge of the left” nonsense on here and across other social media recently. What’s actually happening is antisemites & those denying antisemitism being shown the door.
These are Starmer’s exact words: “Labour will never again lose sight of its purpose or its morals. And it will never again be brought to its knees by racism or bigotry. If you don’t like that, if you don’t like the changes we have made, I say the door is open and you can leave."
No one with any shred of decency could disagree with that. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:06 - Feb 19 with 697 views | Mullet |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:19 - Feb 19 by DJR |
Following on from my earlier post, interesting to see that Joe Biden has welcomed Bernie Sanders into the fold, and even adopted some of his policies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/19/bernie-sanders-oligarchs-ok-angr
Leaving aside any issues with Corbyn, my particular concern is the open attack on people in the Party on the left.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/19/leftwing-labour-mps-fear-losing
The problem it seems to me is that longstanding members of the Labour Party (like me) are effectively being treated as evil incarnate for having the audacity to have views that don't accord with the leadership.
Rather bizarrely, it it McCarthyism but coming from the supposed left, not the right. And it doesn't seem to accord with what is says on my membership card, namely, that Labour is a democratic socialist party. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 16:33]
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I don't see that at all. There are a lot of people who consider themselves "the Left" who are simply a conglomerate of very unpleasant/very zealous assholes, hiding behind their devotion to Corbyn or some other intellectual (arf) position. Whether it was the hijacking of Briana Ghey's vigil to attack Starmer (that was particularly despicable) or something more historic, which has made people go all Judean people's front.
The same has happened between formerly having to be a regular asshole Tory and a weapons grade little England Nazi bastard in the modern Conservative party, where people are running a race to the bottom, all to prove devotion to a cause.
You see this happening in all kinds of spheres when society is volatile, from politics to industries etc. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:14 - Feb 19 with 676 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:06 - Feb 19 by Mullet |
I don't see that at all. There are a lot of people who consider themselves "the Left" who are simply a conglomerate of very unpleasant/very zealous assholes, hiding behind their devotion to Corbyn or some other intellectual (arf) position. Whether it was the hijacking of Briana Ghey's vigil to attack Starmer (that was particularly despicable) or something more historic, which has made people go all Judean people's front.
The same has happened between formerly having to be a regular asshole Tory and a weapons grade little England Nazi bastard in the modern Conservative party, where people are running a race to the bottom, all to prove devotion to a cause.
You see this happening in all kinds of spheres when society is volatile, from politics to industries etc. |
Indeed. This “cult” is, in the grand scheme of things, nothing more than a toxic, Corbyn-centric sub-section of ”the left”. There are a great many socialists who aren't Corbynites. | |
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