| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate 09:26 - Feb 15 with 20111 views | tractordownsouth |
Big choice for momentum now if he contests the election as an independent. Their MPs are mostly from the newer intakes and they won’t want to give up their jobs to campaign for Corbyn against a Labour candidate, but having alienated the moderate factions they need his base on board. [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 9:28]
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| Half the thread pulled on 15:19 - Feb 20 with 662 views | Zapers |
| Half the thread pulled on 14:54 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I'm fully woke. Not sure "wake up!" is quite the rebuttal you think it is either. |
And therein lies the problem. Idealistic dreams. |  | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:24 - Feb 20 with 643 views | tractordownsouth |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 13:46 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
I've not seen Starmer put forward any policies that could genuinely be described as socialist. |
The stuff on windfall taxes, non-doms, banning zero hour contracts and the £28bn climate pledge have been a big part of Starmer's agenda. The communication hasn't been top notch but the policies are there. | |
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| Half the thread pulled on 15:25 - Feb 20 with 638 views | noggin |
| Half the thread pulled on 15:19 - Feb 20 by Zapers |
And therein lies the problem. Idealistic dreams. |
How are idealistic dreams a bad thing? |  |
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| Half the thread pulled on 15:29 - Feb 20 with 620 views | Zapers |
| Half the thread pulled on 15:25 - Feb 20 by noggin |
How are idealistic dreams a bad thing? |
If you want to live in lala land, move to LA. | | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:32 - Feb 20 with 613 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:19 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Only making rail companies public if they are failing is not socialism, it's pragmatism. Even the Tories have managed that, and nobody other than Chico would describe the Tories as socialists. Nothing Labour is currently proposing could meaningfully be described as socialist, nothing they are proposing is offering much of a challenge to the rampant neoliberalism we've been subjected to from Thatcher onwards. |
if a company is failing it's much, much cheaper to nationalise them as they're breaching contract.
would you promise to nationalise everything on day 1 (socialism) risking legal challenges and paying way above the odds?
or nationalise them when they come out of contract (partial socialism)?
or commit to privatising everything (not socialism)?
i would say labour's position (not policy) is the middle one, and the sensible socialist one. what's yours? | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:48 - Feb 20 with 593 views | blueasfook |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:09 - Feb 20 by Ryorry |
On very limited time, just to say that all this stupid division amongst Labourites is exactly what hands power to the #ToryCriminalsUnfitToGovern.
We need to play them at their own game. Unite!  Divided we fall. |
"Tories love to play divide and rule, dont play their game" |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:04 - Feb 20 with 577 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:24 - Feb 20 by tractordownsouth |
The stuff on windfall taxes, non-doms, banning zero hour contracts and the £28bn climate pledge have been a big part of Starmer's agenda. The communication hasn't been top notch but the policies are there. |
The national green energy company is probably the closest thing to a genuine social democratic policy that they are offering but it's pretty thin gruel on the whole. Slightly kinder neoliberal capitalism is not socialism. |  |
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| Half the thread pulled on 16:05 - Feb 20 with 577 views | Herbivore |
| Half the thread pulled on 15:19 - Feb 20 by Zapers |
And therein lies the problem. Idealistic dreams. |
You seem to have nothing to offer other than unwittingly proving my point about the woeful levels of political education in this country. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:08 - Feb 20 with 568 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:32 - Feb 20 by positivity |
if a company is failing it's much, much cheaper to nationalise them as they're breaching contract.
would you promise to nationalise everything on day 1 (socialism) risking legal challenges and paying way above the odds?
or nationalise them when they come out of contract (partial socialism)?
or commit to privatising everything (not socialism)?
i would say labour's position (not policy) is the middle one, and the sensible socialist one. what's yours? |
Have they said they will nationalise all rail operators as they come out of contract or just failing ones? I'm not sure Labour even know what their position is on this one as they seem to flip flop constantly. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:12 - Feb 20 with 566 views | Ryorry |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 15:48 - Feb 20 by blueasfook |
"Tories love to play divide and rule, dont play their game" |
They only got their landslide GE by holding their noses & incorporating both unlikeable ends of their party.
We (Labour) need to do same to ensure sufficient votes to in power with working majority at next GE.
Saying Labour will get in anyway is a massive, massively dangerous mistake. It'd be like saying we (ITFC) were sure of 3 points at Lincoln. You can never take anything for granted. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:13 - Feb 20 with 560 views | Zapers |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:04 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
The national green energy company is probably the closest thing to a genuine social democratic policy that they are offering but it's pretty thin gruel on the whole. Slightly kinder neoliberal capitalism is not socialism. |
And the minority rule, or do they! | | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:17 - Feb 20 with 557 views | blueasfook |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:12 - Feb 20 by Ryorry |
They only got their landslide GE by holding their noses & incorporating both unlikeable ends of their party.
We (Labour) need to do same to ensure sufficient votes to in power with working majority at next GE.
Saying Labour will get in anyway is a massive, massively dangerous mistake. It'd be like saying we (ITFC) were sure of 3 points at Lincoln. You can never take anything for granted. |
I, for one, would vote Labour again just purely based on the fact they are a sensible party again with reassuring views on matters such as defence, not hugging terrorists and calling them "friends" , a firm stand on anti-semitism, a competent shadow home secretary, etc. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:22 - Feb 20 with 543 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:13 - Feb 20 by Zapers |
And the minority rule, or do they! |
What are you wittering on about? | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:25 - Feb 20 with 538 views | Zapers |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:22 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
What are you wittering on about? |
I'm wittering on about you, the minority. Catch up;) | | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:29 - Feb 20 with 532 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:25 - Feb 20 by Zapers |
I'm wittering on about you, the minority. Catch up;) |
You seem to just be talking a load of sh!te to be honest. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:43 - Feb 20 with 524 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:08 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Have they said they will nationalise all rail operators as they come out of contract or just failing ones? I'm not sure Labour even know what their position is on this one as they seem to flip flop constantly. |
have they said they won't?
no sensible opposition cement such expensive policies a couple of years out, don't think even jc did that.
even the 2019 manifesto made no promises, something like "we will use options to nationalise as the opportunity arises", no dates or costs i don't think.
i would expect something similar when the time comes, but it's all conjecture at present | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:48 - Feb 20 with 515 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:43 - Feb 20 by positivity |
have they said they won't?
no sensible opposition cement such expensive policies a couple of years out, don't think even jc did that.
even the 2019 manifesto made no promises, something like "we will use options to nationalise as the opportunity arises", no dates or costs i don't think.
i would expect something similar when the time comes, but it's all conjecture at present |
Well, it's kind of their job to take positions on things rather than for the electorate to guess what their position might be on the basis that they haven't ruled it out. They haven't ruled out seizing the means of production from private hands either but I'm not going to say they are socialists on that basis either. Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, I'm seeing little that's genuinely socialist from Labour currently. Just look at their ramped up ASBO policy that they've recently announced, nothing remotely progressive or left wing there. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:49 - Feb 20 with 514 views | Zapers |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:29 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
You seem to just be talking a load of sh!te to be honest. |
Mirror mirror, on the wall. | | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:53 - Feb 20 with 508 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:49 - Feb 20 by Zapers |
Mirror mirror, on the wall. |
Grown ups are trying to discuss politics here, mate. Come back when you've got an actual contribution to make. | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:56 - Feb 20 with 503 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:48 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Well, it's kind of their job to take positions on things rather than for the electorate to guess what their position might be on the basis that they haven't ruled it out. They haven't ruled out seizing the means of production from private hands either but I'm not going to say they are socialists on that basis either. Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, I'm seeing little that's genuinely socialist from Labour currently. Just look at their ramped up ASBO policy that they've recently announced, nothing remotely progressive or left wing there. |
yes, we'll have to wait and see.
you never know what's in the manifesto for sure, until the day. hope for the best and petition those who can influence it.
what i can say with some certainty is that they will be by far the best option for unseating the local tory, and will be far better than the current government! | |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:04 - Feb 20 with 476 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 14:02 - Feb 20 by positivity |
nonsense, this myth you're peddling of things being better under thatcher than under brown (or even major) doesn't stand up to scrutiny. i remember thatcher and it wasn't better then
general apathy, and washing your hands of engagement with government that you're proposing brought us brexit, boris, truss, sunak and co |
I particularly liked the bit where Blair rolled back the selling of public housing, the privatisation of utilities and definitely didn't leave the NHS in hoc to PFI's. And things like Sure Start definitely weren't just down to a passing moment of easy credit but well thought out sovereign wealth funds. Thank goodness we have had such meaningful political options since Thatcher. |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:05 - Feb 20 with 475 views | Mullet |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:43 - Feb 20 by positivity |
have they said they won't?
no sensible opposition cement such expensive policies a couple of years out, don't think even jc did that.
even the 2019 manifesto made no promises, something like "we will use options to nationalise as the opportunity arises", no dates or costs i don't think.
i would expect something similar when the time comes, but it's all conjecture at present |
No, and despite the people emphasising his pursuit of nationalisation for opposite reasons, you'd not expect him to either. However, explaining himself or his intentions was one of JC's many many failures as a leader.
It'd be interesting to hear the critics of Starmer breakdown this vis a vis Corbyn's approach too. https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-manifesto-launch-policies-summary-key-p |  |
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| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:07 - Feb 20 with 473 views | Zapers |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:53 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Grown ups are trying to discuss politics here, mate. Come back when you've got an actual contribution to make. |
Contribution, is that what you call it? You constantly live in the dark ages. Your idealistic dreams are not reality. Don't lecture me on my contributions when all you talk about is your unrealistic dreams. Not going to happen, wake up. | | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:10 - Feb 20 with 443 views | Herbivore |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:07 - Feb 20 by Zapers |
Contribution, is that what you call it? You constantly live in the dark ages. Your idealistic dreams are not reality. Don't lecture me on my contributions when all you talk about is your unrealistic dreams. Not going to happen, wake up. |
You have added literally nothing of any value on this thread. The sum total of your contributions might just about make up a terrible haiku. | |
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