| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate 09:26 - Feb 15 with 20112 views | tractordownsouth |
Big choice for momentum now if he contests the election as an independent. Their MPs are mostly from the newer intakes and they won’t want to give up their jobs to campaign for Corbyn against a Labour candidate, but having alienated the moderate factions they need his base on board. [Post edited 15 Feb 2023 9:28]
|  |
| |  |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:59 - Feb 19 with 1173 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:14 - Feb 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. This “cult” is, in the grand scheme of things, nothing more than a toxic, Corbyn-centric sub-section of ”the left”. There are a great many socialists who aren't Corbynites. |
I've never been a member of the so-called cult, having not voted for Corbyn in both leadership elections, and I would like to think from the tenor of my posts on this site that I would not be regarded as a zealot. Nor have I ever been a member of the hard left, and I am not, and have never been, an antisemite.
I'm just an ordinary member of the Labour Party, and have been since 1985.
In addition, as a member, I would like to think that I have much more investment in what goes on in the party than virtually all the casual commenters on this site because I have an emotional attachment to it. And it would be nice to think that my comments would carry slightly more weight as an actual party member. But sadly there is too much petty point scoring on this site, with people resorting to what I would regard as abuse or memes (if that's the right expression) rather than dealing with the issues.
Anyway, it's not just me who has misgivings about what's going on because as I said in the post which gave rise to this, the respected journalist, Michael Crick, also shares my concerns, not least because dissenting voices in a political party give rise to better decision-making. And I have no doubt there are others who are not cultists who share my concerns.
Incidentally, Mullet is equally right to mention what is going on in the Tory party, with the following example being a continuation of the purge which took place before the last election.
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-02-19/senior-tory-damian-green-rejected-a
All in all, I just sense these are examples of us becoming a much less liberal country, with certain views effectively excluded from both parties.
If people are content with that, so be it, but I think it is something that deserves proper and rational debate, which these days is very much in short supply. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 18:11]
|  | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 18:06 - Feb 19 with 1147 views | Ryorry |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:13 - Feb 16 by leitrimblue |
If I was living in UK and my vote would make the difference of wether Labour or Tories got in I would obviously vote Labour and hope for the best. Who knows, perhaps Starmer is going for a Trojan horse style approach to winning the next election and once PM may take a enormous step to the left. And me an my middle class Socialist Worker friends will be stuffing our mouths with the rich 😉 |
"Who knows, perhaps Starmer is going for a Trojan horse style approach to winning the next election and once PM may take a enormous step to the left".
I think Starmer may be doing just that (tho I rather doubt his step will be "enormously" to the left  ). Think it's been called the 'Joe Biden' approach?
Was gonna refrain from posting on thread till I'd finished all 7 pp, but it seems to keep growing at same pace as I've been reading, a page a day, so apols if this has been said before. |  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:27 - Feb 19 with 1077 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:14 - Feb 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. This “cult” is, in the grand scheme of things, nothing more than a toxic, Corbyn-centric sub-section of ”the left”. There are a great many socialists who aren't Corbynites. |
It's a shame that he accidentally ditched all those nasty lefty policies to appeal to Tories then isn't it....whoops! |  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 23:02 - Feb 19 with 988 views | positivity |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:27 - Feb 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's a shame that he accidentally ditched all those nasty lefty policies to appeal to Tories then isn't it....whoops! |
it's more that he ditched one "nasty" left politician to appeal to ex-labour voters. seems to be working
("nasty" in quotes as it's not what i believe, i think he was more naive and weak than nasty) |  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 07:54 - Feb 20 with 909 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 16:59 - Feb 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Seeing a lot of this “a purge of the left” nonsense on here and across other social media recently. What’s actually happening is antisemites & those denying antisemitism being shown the door.
These are Starmer’s exact words: “Labour will never again lose sight of its purpose or its morals. And it will never again be brought to its knees by racism or bigotry. If you don’t like that, if you don’t like the changes we have made, I say the door is open and you can leave."
No one with any shred of decency could disagree with that. |
Nobody with any decency, certainly nobody with any knowledge, would be pushing this line.
It’s a factional narrative that is nonsense as soon as you scrape the surface.
Simply but well expressed here.
|  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:01 - Feb 20 with 899 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:06 - Feb 19 by Mullet |
I don't see that at all. There are a lot of people who consider themselves "the Left" who are simply a conglomerate of very unpleasant/very zealous assholes, hiding behind their devotion to Corbyn or some other intellectual (arf) position. Whether it was the hijacking of Briana Ghey's vigil to attack Starmer (that was particularly despicable) or something more historic, which has made people go all Judean people's front.
The same has happened between formerly having to be a regular asshole Tory and a weapons grade little England Nazi bastard in the modern Conservative party, where people are running a race to the bottom, all to prove devotion to a cause.
You see this happening in all kinds of spheres when society is volatile, from politics to industries etc. |
Hmmm. I think we’re seeing where the cult is.
You were pushing Enough is Enough the other day but easy to do if you just want to wring your hands and look like you care. The people leaving Labour or being marginalised are the ones who want to see a major and supposedly left of centre party stand up for people in the same way.
Now you want right-wing policies across the board ... | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:03 - Feb 20 with 896 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 19:27 - Feb 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's a shame that he accidentally ditched all those nasty lefty policies to appeal to Tories then isn't it....whoops! |
It’s almost as if getting rid of left-wing policies was the aim all along ... | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:07 - Feb 20 with 891 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 17:59 - Feb 19 by DJR |
I've never been a member of the so-called cult, having not voted for Corbyn in both leadership elections, and I would like to think from the tenor of my posts on this site that I would not be regarded as a zealot. Nor have I ever been a member of the hard left, and I am not, and have never been, an antisemite.
I'm just an ordinary member of the Labour Party, and have been since 1985.
In addition, as a member, I would like to think that I have much more investment in what goes on in the party than virtually all the casual commenters on this site because I have an emotional attachment to it. And it would be nice to think that my comments would carry slightly more weight as an actual party member. But sadly there is too much petty point scoring on this site, with people resorting to what I would regard as abuse or memes (if that's the right expression) rather than dealing with the issues.
Anyway, it's not just me who has misgivings about what's going on because as I said in the post which gave rise to this, the respected journalist, Michael Crick, also shares my concerns, not least because dissenting voices in a political party give rise to better decision-making. And I have no doubt there are others who are not cultists who share my concerns.
Incidentally, Mullet is equally right to mention what is going on in the Tory party, with the following example being a continuation of the purge which took place before the last election.
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-02-19/senior-tory-damian-green-rejected-a
All in all, I just sense these are examples of us becoming a much less liberal country, with certain views effectively excluded from both parties.
If people are content with that, so be it, but I think it is something that deserves proper and rational debate, which these days is very much in short supply. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 18:11]
|
Well said.
There’s now effectively a blanket ban on social democracy in our major parties and media. But that’s just deepening the UK’s isolation from its neighbours and indeed reality.
We’re a basket case. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:14 - Feb 20 with 879 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 23:02 - Feb 19 by positivity |
it's more that he ditched one "nasty" left politician to appeal to ex-labour voters. seems to be working
("nasty" in quotes as it's not what i believe, i think he was more naive and weak than nasty) |
No, he’s ditched the left-wing policies and pretty much all his leadership election pledges.
The man is as empty, opportunistic and as big a liar as Johnson. But, just like with the Brexiteers and Johnson, Starmer is your and other centrists’ liar so it’s all OK. | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:46 - Feb 20 with 811 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 07:54 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
Nobody with any decency, certainly nobody with any knowledge, would be pushing this line.
It’s a factional narrative that is nonsense as soon as you scrape the surface.
Simply but well expressed here.
|
Andrew Fisher? Novara Media? Why not just chuck in an opinion from Chris Williamson (Iran state affiliated media]? |  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:49 - Feb 20 with 805 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 07:54 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
Nobody with any decency, certainly nobody with any knowledge, would be pushing this line.
It’s a factional narrative that is nonsense as soon as you scrape the surface.
Simply but well expressed here.
|
Seal of disapproval from the status quo-ers and smear merchants.
Thanks for the promotion. | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:52 - Feb 20 with 785 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:46 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Andrew Fisher? Novara Media? Why not just chuck in an opinion from Chris Williamson (Iran state affiliated media]? |
Much better sources and objective facts than you’re used to pushing, let’s be fair. But returning to the actual content ...
No answer then? | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:52 - Feb 20 with 784 views | lowhouseblue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:49 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
Seal of disapproval from the status quo-ers and smear merchants.
Thanks for the promotion. |
seriously, find a party which expresses your views, join it, come back and tell us when it gets someone elected. otherwise you're just posing pointlessly. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:52 - Feb 20 with 784 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:01 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
Hmmm. I think we’re seeing where the cult is.
You were pushing Enough is Enough the other day but easy to do if you just want to wring your hands and look like you care. The people leaving Labour or being marginalised are the ones who want to see a major and supposedly left of centre party stand up for people in the same way.
Now you want right-wing policies across the board ... |
Yes, two good friends of mine from the local party, who had been members for years including under Blair and weren't in any way cultists, have left the party since Starmer took over, disillusioned with the way the party is going.
And it mustn't be forgotten that the Blairites who are now in charge saw both Brown and Miliband as dangerous leftists.
Incidentally, membership has fallen to 320,000 from 500,000 and a fair degree of those remaining are in arrears.
As regards myself, I have cut down my membership subscription to the bare minimum, but I am holding on for emotional reasons and to be able to vote in a future leadership election. But with the manipulation of candidate lists to exclude those from the left, and the additional hurdles to stand, any choice in the future is likely to between several bland centrists.
For what it is worth, I think the only prominent person with a bit of radicalism left in the party and worth voting for is Andy Burnham, who I voted for in the 2015 leadership election. But it is not clear whether he will become an MP again.
[Post edited 20 Feb 2023 8:53]
| | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:58 - Feb 20 with 734 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:52 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
seriously, find a party which expresses your views, join it, come back and tell us when it gets someone elected. otherwise you're just posing pointlessly. |
I’m bemoaning the right-leaning rut the country finds itself in politically – perpetuating the kind of neoliberalism that has screwed over the majority but very much served the minority and the politicians who serve them.
You know that there’s nothing progressive on offer, that’s why you support Starmer, Mandelson and the rest of the right-wingers.
But you can stop pretending you have the country’s best interests at heart when the evidence points the other way. | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:06 - Feb 20 with 683 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:49 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
Seal of disapproval from the status quo-ers and smear merchants.
Thanks for the promotion. |
I think it might have been the 'decency' bit. Could be wrong. |  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:06 - Feb 20 with 681 views | lowhouseblue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:58 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
I’m bemoaning the right-leaning rut the country finds itself in politically – perpetuating the kind of neoliberalism that has screwed over the majority but very much served the minority and the politicians who serve them.
You know that there’s nothing progressive on offer, that’s why you support Starmer, Mandelson and the rest of the right-wingers.
But you can stop pretending you have the country’s best interests at heart when the evidence points the other way. |
that's all lovely. but the electorate don't agree with your apocalyptic world view. and unless you're prepared to have a dialogue with the electorate - a group that you regularly on here show you have contempt for - you're never going to change a single thing. you're politically utterly pointless. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:07 - Feb 20 with 678 views | Mullet |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:01 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
Hmmm. I think we’re seeing where the cult is.
You were pushing Enough is Enough the other day but easy to do if you just want to wring your hands and look like you care. The people leaving Labour or being marginalised are the ones who want to see a major and supposedly left of centre party stand up for people in the same way.
Now you want right-wing policies across the board ... |
Personal attacks? That's it? Odd how you were nothing to do with this portion of a civil conversation and seem to be a bit uppity.
I've spent just under 12 years working with some of the most deprived kids and families in the country, nearly 5 working with and for a trade union (for free incidentally). All when I could have moved to cushier jobs, taken more money etc.
Tell me more about my right-wing leanings and posturing. |  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:09 - Feb 20 with 661 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:06 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
that's all lovely. but the electorate don't agree with your apocalyptic world view. and unless you're prepared to have a dialogue with the electorate - a group that you regularly on here show you have contempt for - you're never going to change a single thing. you're politically utterly pointless. |
Actually the policies are popular. Which is why the attacks on Corbin and the left have been largely manufactured over other stuff.
If there was a semblance of policy debate then neither the Tories nor current Labour would represent the majority. But that really isn’t their role, is it? | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:09 - Feb 20 with 654 views | noggin |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:52 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
seriously, find a party which expresses your views, join it, come back and tell us when it gets someone elected. otherwise you're just posing pointlessly. |
So, let me get this straight... Stating a desire for a more progressive government and, with that, a more caring society, is 'pointless posing'? |  |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:15 - Feb 20 with 601 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:07 - Feb 20 by Mullet |
Personal attacks? That's it? Odd how you were nothing to do with this portion of a civil conversation and seem to be a bit uppity.
I've spent just under 12 years working with some of the most deprived kids and families in the country, nearly 5 working with and for a trade union (for free incidentally). All when I could have moved to cushier jobs, taken more money etc.
Tell me more about my right-wing leanings and posturing. |
Personal attacks?? Jeez ...
I mentioned Enough is Enough because it shows the sheer distance between how you talk and the reality of our politics.
Badger does a great job too but he’s the same – both of you utterly hoodwinked into believing the narrative. How’s that working out for the NHS and education? | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:17 - Feb 20 with 578 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:06 - Feb 20 by giant_stow |
I think it might have been the 'decency' bit. Could be wrong. |
Lowers and GB are barrel scrapers – they show their disingenuousness and bad faith at every turn. They have no decency when it comes to the “game of politics”. | |
| |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:17 - Feb 20 with 577 views | DJR |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 08:52 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
seriously, find a party which expresses your views, join it, come back and tell us when it gets someone elected. otherwise you're just posing pointlessly. |
Despite the misgivings expressed on this thread and elsewhere, I will still vote Labour.
But I am not convinced that a strategy of "We're not the Tories, we've ditched Corbyn, and we're better managers than the Tories", coupled with bland policies and a leader with no real personality is a long-term winning strategy.
It mustn't be forgotten that Starmer has only really cut through in the last year or so because of incompetence on the part of the Tories, so I am not convinced support for him is particularly strong.
In addition, Labour still have a lot of hurdles to overcome. They have lost much of Scotland, there will be boundary changes and voter ID which will favour the Tories, and a lot of young people attracted to Labour under Corbyn will presumably either not vote or vote for the Greens.
Don't forget, for all Corbyn's failings, Labour with radical policies in 2017 got a higher share of the vote (despite the loss of Scotland) than Blair did except in 1997.
I campaigned on the streets during that election, and it was clear to me during the campaign that the mood changed when people had a chance to hear properly the policy on offer freed from the anti-Corbyn media narrative, and there was a real desire for more radical policies.
It's just a shame that Starmer has ditched all the promises he made when standing for leadership, and that Labour aren't tapping into any of the radicalism that actually is popular in the country.
And because he has tried to curry favour with the right wing press and failed to show clear blue (red?) water, I think Starmer will be beholden to them when in office, whenever they pipe up as they will do on all sorts of issues. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 9:59]
| | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:20 - Feb 20 with 571 views | leitrimblue |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:09 - Feb 20 by noggin |
So, let me get this straight... Stating a desire for a more progressive government and, with that, a more caring society, is 'pointless posing'? |
Come on, how is that gonna win Jeremy Clarkson or GB,s vote? We need more policy's that appeal to the white middle class they are clearly the most needy in society and need our help |  | | |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:20 - Feb 20 with 571 views | Mullet |
| Corbyn not standing as a Labour candidate on 09:15 - Feb 20 by Darth_Koont |
Personal attacks?? Jeez ...
I mentioned Enough is Enough because it shows the sheer distance between how you talk and the reality of our politics.
Badger does a great job too but he’s the same – both of you utterly hoodwinked into believing the narrative. How’s that working out for the NHS and education? |
No, you were trying to start a "leftier than thou" pissing contest.
The difference being your politics is merely all talk and hypothetical puritanism. You've been doing this dance for years because you simply refuse to accept the reality of British politics, society and ineptitude of Corbyn as a leader and politician. Let alone the fact you don't seem to do anything "real world" either.
As for bringing someone else into this who's not involved after trying to play the innocent. I think you need to take a spot of reflection for a bit to be frank. Your displaying the attitude and approach which has made it necessary to "purge" certain people it seems. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
