| Shamima Begum 11:14 - Feb 22 with 5715 views | TalkingBlues |
Not coming back, again. |  |
| |  |
| Shamima Begum on 13:48 - Feb 22 with 1430 views | DJR |
| Shamima Begum on 13:45 - Feb 22 by DJR |
The following, from the Guardian, indicates that even some Tories object to what is going on.
"Senior Conservatives also condemned the government’s treatment of Begum. David Davis, the vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on trafficked Britons in Syria, said it was “a shameful abdication of responsibility and must be remedied”.
Sayeeda Warsi said citizenship-stripping powers “have been used almost exclusively against Muslims, mainly of south Asian, Middle Eastern and African heritage, creating a two-tier citizenship system completely at odds with British values of fairness and equality before the law.”
She said the “extreme” powers were of concern to 6 million people in Britain with a claim to dual nationality."
EDIT: David Davis is a very sound person when it comes to constitional/civil rights-type questions, and also opposes the Rwanda policy. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 13:57]
|
This, also from the Guardian, indicates the UK is an outlier.
"[Begum's] case has highlighted how Britain is out of step with the US and European allies in its refusal to repatriate nationals from refugee camps in north-east Syria. Several British women detained in Syria retain British citizenship but have not been repatriated.
Last month, Spain became the latest country to start repatriating families of IS fighters from Syrian refugee camps, with two Spanish women and 13 Spanish children arriving at Torrejón military airbase near Madrid."
What a really nasty country we've become. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 13:50]
|  | | |
| Shamima Begum on 13:51 - Feb 22 with 1427 views | blueasfook |
| Shamima Begum on 12:44 - Feb 22 by Zx1988 |
What is it about the openly-racist and Islamophobic policies of the Tory government that particularly appeals to you? |
Bit strong. She affiliated herself with a terrorist organisation intent on killing and/or maiming innocent British and European citizens and committing atrocities in Iraq and Syria.
Personally, I am for allowing her back but to say the government's actions were racist or islamaphobic is wrong. If that were the case, I am sure the court would have overturned their decision. |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 13:57 - Feb 22 with 1398 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Shamima Begum on 13:30 - Feb 22 by DJR |
Sadly, those opposed to the removal of the citizenship of Shamima Begum are very much in the minority, according to the following poll, so if it's a two way street, it's one with two lanes on one side and ten lanes on the other side.
https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum-78-of-britons-support-revoking-is-bride
The Tories know what they're doing. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 13:32]
|
All the political players know what they are doing, as do her Lawyers.
That poll only illustrates that one side is doing a better job of making their argument.
Probably aided by most people being of tbe opinion that she knew where she was going and why. I make no comment as to if she did or not but that's tbe perception that I think most people have. |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 14:00 - Feb 22 with 1386 views | DJR |
| Shamima Begum on 13:57 - Feb 22 by BlueandTruesince82 |
All the political players know what they are doing, as do her Lawyers.
That poll only illustrates that one side is doing a better job of making their argument.
Probably aided by most people being of tbe opinion that she knew where she was going and why. I make no comment as to if she did or not but that's tbe perception that I think most people have. |
I think one side is pushing at an open door, if attitudes in polls to people crossing the Channel are anything to go by. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 14:02]
| | | |
| Shamima Begum on 14:07 - Feb 22 with 1377 views | DJR |
| Shamima Begum on 13:51 - Feb 22 by blueasfook |
Bit strong. She affiliated herself with a terrorist organisation intent on killing and/or maiming innocent British and European citizens and committing atrocities in Iraq and Syria.
Personally, I am for allowing her back but to say the government's actions were racist or islamaphobic is wrong. If that were the case, I am sure the court would have overturned their decision. |
But as I mentioned above, Baroness Warsi, a Tory, appears to think the government's actions are Islamophobic.
Of course, if the government were to advance the case that its actions were Islamophobic, the court would overturn the decision, but even this government are not so stupid as to do that. So in the absence of that, the court has to decide the case on the arguments put forward. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 14:09]
| | | |
| Shamima Begum on 14:10 - Feb 22 with 1367 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Shamima Begum on 13:21 - Feb 22 by Blueschev |
How can the government say that she bare responsibility when they have completely shirked their own responsibility with regards to one of their own citizens? Do they not have a responsibility to prevent such instances occurring in the first place? Why should another country take responsibility for a citizen born and bread in this country? [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 13:32]
|
You'd have to ask the government.
My opinion is I find it hard to believe at 15 she wasnt aware of at least some of the brutality that the regime she was moving to undertook, especially given her mosque at least as I understand it spoke about IS and how it has misinterpreted much of the Koran (I believe though it was a while ago so forgive me if my memory does me a diservice) the attitude of her and her friends was that they don't listen to old clerics.
Regardless of whether the UK has shirked its reasonably or not I dont think it unfair to suggest she bares some of her own and that doing so would have helped her cause | |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 14:13 - Feb 22 with 1360 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Shamima Begum on 14:00 - Feb 22 by DJR |
I think one side is pushing at an open door, if attitudes in polls to people crossing the Channel are anything to go by. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 14:02]
|
True but I'd argue that again, 1 side is making their argument better (which is v different from making a better argument)
I'm just saying it feel to me that both sides are quite happy to user her case to make a point. | |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 14:22 - Feb 22 with 1349 views | noggin |
| Shamima Begum on 13:29 - Feb 22 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
They kneaded to take her nationality into account… |
At the moment, she's just loafing around in Northern Syria. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Shamima Begum on 14:30 - Feb 22 with 1344 views | blueasfook |
| Shamima Begum on 14:07 - Feb 22 by DJR |
But as I mentioned above, Baroness Warsi, a Tory, appears to think the government's actions are Islamophobic.
Of course, if the government were to advance the case that its actions were Islamophobic, the court would overturn the decision, but even this government are not so stupid as to do that. So in the absence of that, the court has to decide the case on the arguments put forward. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 14:09]
|
Surely it's down to her defence team to put forward the case that the government's actions are indeed Islamophobic - and I am sure that would have been one of their arguments in trying to overturn the government's ruling.
Clearly, that argument has not been accepted by the appeal judges. | |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 14:35 - Feb 22 with 1312 views | J2BLUE |
Surprised by the decision.
Don't think she was ever particularly remorseful and always seemed like she was just half-heartedly ticking boxes to appear like a normal western teenager but you would think we would at least bring her back and assess her. Going to take some time to undo the level of brainwashing she was subjected to. |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 14:37 - Feb 22 with 1303 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Shamima Begum on 14:22 - Feb 22 by noggin |
At the moment, she's just loafing around in Northern Syria. |
I think if anything one would flatbread around Northern Syria.
We should also mention what a tragedy all this has been for a once beautiful country. Whist the Assad regime is clearly despot the Syrian people are for the most part (non extremist affiliated ones) lovely. My parents went on holiday there about 18 months before it kicked off and had a wonderful time, found it to a welcoming, friendly and beautiful country steeped in history (which is why they went). Begums trouble pail in significance to tbe damage done to that country through a combination of Assad, Putiin IS et al and probably some ill judged dexiosns within the Western intervention as well | |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 14:42 - Feb 22 with 1284 views | Ryorry |
| Shamima Begum on 13:27 - Feb 22 by eireblue |
Hmm, you raise a very good point.
Those illegal immigrants, well surely their criminal behaviour only started once they entered the U.K. Makes them all the responsibility of the U.K. and they should stay here, since that is where the crime took place.
Logic init. |
Ooh you are naughty 😂 |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 15:13 - Feb 22 with 1217 views | Zx1988 |
| Shamima Begum on 13:51 - Feb 22 by blueasfook |
Bit strong. She affiliated herself with a terrorist organisation intent on killing and/or maiming innocent British and European citizens and committing atrocities in Iraq and Syria.
Personally, I am for allowing her back but to say the government's actions were racist or islamaphobic is wrong. If that were the case, I am sure the court would have overturned their decision. |
Do you honestly believe that the same action would have been taken if the broad facts of the case were similar, but the person in question was a white supremacist, or ultra-fundamentalist Christian? |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 15:14 - Feb 22 with 1213 views | DJR |
| Shamima Begum on 14:30 - Feb 22 by blueasfook |
Surely it's down to her defence team to put forward the case that the government's actions are indeed Islamophobic - and I am sure that would have been one of their arguments in trying to overturn the government's ruling.
Clearly, that argument has not been accepted by the appeal judges. |
That's not how it works.
This article analyses the case, and indicates that the grounds for overturning the Home Secretary's decision were limited to a case in which she had made a mistake in law.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/22/shamima-begum-case-lawyers-can-a | | | |
| Shamima Begum on 15:24 - Feb 22 with 1182 views | Coastalblue |
I watched the thing on TV with her recently, and feel very sorry for her while also feeling she's not being entirely honest or open about some aspects of her story.
Her life has been destroyed regardless of what happens now, she's never going to get over what she's been through and live a normal, happy productive life and that is terrible.
Personally I fail to see how we can just refuse to let a Briton back in the country, that just doesn't make any logical sense and believe she should be allowed to come back.
If she is some extremist who is likely to try and push things further than surely better to know where she is and who she's talking to, clearly if she does come back she'll be under surveillance for the rest of her life.
The reality is that she was a child, who for whatever reasons made some terrible decisions and will spend her entire adult life paying for them, that is very sad.
Bring her home for me, and I say that as somebody who would be living about a mile from her if she returned to her family area. |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 15:33 - Feb 22 with 1159 views | itfcjoe |
| Shamima Begum on 13:35 - Feb 22 by DJR |
I don't think we normally fail to prosecute people just because they're wrong'uns!
And there is always the option of a false identity. [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 13:40]
|
The false identity may protect her to an extent, but she's going to be fairly recognisable as it is - but it's more the security services needing to keep a close eye on her as well |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 15:45 - Feb 22 with 1116 views | Mullet |
It paints our country in a very bad light. Either because of the obvious racism/sexism you can attach to the rhetoric but more subtly that we can not control the situation and betray a lot of weakness in every sense.
There's been a lot of debate about the agency of young girls historically and the examinations of figures like Saville, Andrew Windsor alongside Rotherham/Oldham etc. and this seems to fly in the face of it too. |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 15:48 - Feb 22 with 1106 views | DanTheMan |
She was a child who was groomed and made some very poor decisions. She should return home and face where her crimes can be properly assessed.
There must be something I'm missing for her to be such a danger to national security when she is so high profile and you'd imagine could be easily monitored. |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 16:41 - Feb 22 with 994 views | DJR |
This would appear to prove the point Baroness Warsi has made. | | | |
| Shamima Begum on 16:47 - Feb 22 with 967 views | DJR |
| Shamima Begum on 15:33 - Feb 22 by itfcjoe |
The false identity may protect her to an extent, but she's going to be fairly recognisable as it is - but it's more the security services needing to keep a close eye on her as well |
Talk of false identity brings to mind the time my parents' road in Ipswich got a mention in an article on the front of the Daily Telegraph.
The article was from the early 1980s, a time when there were such things as police houses, some of which were dotted about Broke Hall Estate.
The article mentioned that at some in the past (from recollection a year or so before) houses in my parents' street had been used as safe houses for IRA supergrasses, who obviously were in grave danger if their location was found out.
Fortunately, at the time they were used as safe houses, my parents (for obvious reasons) were none-the-wiser, but maybe they should have twigged given the parties in gardens in their road where "Down the 'RA" was sung with gusto (that's a joke). [Post edited 22 Feb 2023 17:07]
| | | |
| Shamima Begum on 16:50 - Feb 22 with 954 views | Zapers |
What were you whittling on about the other day? Something about not having to pay rent!
But well done for finding a way to get a dig in. Even though In order to do so, you’ve completely twisted words to suit your agenda.
Be careful, suggesting I’m showing support for child groomers is in my opinion bordering on abuse. | | | |
| Shamima Begum on 16:55 - Feb 22 with 906 views | giant_stow |
| Shamima Begum on 15:48 - Feb 22 by DanTheMan |
She was a child who was groomed and made some very poor decisions. She should return home and face where her crimes can be properly assessed.
There must be something I'm missing for her to be such a danger to national security when she is so high profile and you'd imagine could be easily monitored. |
I think she should come back as our problem to deal with, but apparently, there's evidence behind the ruling which couldn't be made public, but the judge saw, so we just don't have all the facts. |  |
| |
| Shamima Begum on 17:02 - Feb 22 with 857 views | Lord_Lucan |
That’s actually completely different as Shamima actively decided on her own part to research and join Isis
Personally I think she should be allowed back.
Pretty p1ssed off though with false equivalence but that’s the way you seem to roll of late.
Hey Ho. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
