| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 23:27 - Apr 16 with 1477 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 09:37 - Apr 16 by ArnieM |
He’s brand of football is old hat , and frankly significantly outdated in the modern game. Usually his best attributes are to shore up leaky teams battling against relegation, beyond that he rarely
“ builds” ( I think Wolves being the only exception?) |
I think there are plenty of clubs with lower budgets who will still operate in a similar way to MM. We have had to learn to deal with it from opponents at this level and there are plenty of "bigger" clubs at this level who are still struggling to do so.
As for why it has never happened since he left for him. I think it is a combination of things. As with players, sometimes age catches up with managers. Sometimes the set up just doesn't work. The players who are there just can't implement the manager's tactics, those he brings in don't work out (he can no longer look to the ones he had before as they have got too old too).
There are plenty of Cowleys et al who will continue to play the sort of every point is a prisoner tactics that MM did and they will continue to get jobs. |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 12:59 - Apr 17 with 1352 views | 66notout |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 23:08 - Apr 16 by Daninthecampo |
Different times, football moves on, just look at Mourinho hailed the new messiah got totally found out and now managing a mid table italian team |
Mid-table Mourinho?
P W D L F A W D L F A GD PTS
1 Napoli 30 11 2 2 33 13 13 1 1 33 8 +45 75
2 Lazio 30 9 3 3 25 13 9 4 2 24 7 +29 61
3 Roma 30 10 1 4 23 9 7 4 4 19 17 +16 56
4 Milan 30 9 3 2 28 17 6 5 5 21 20 +12 53
5 Inter 30 11 0 5 27 9 5 3 6 21 25 +14 51
6 Atalanta 29 6 3 5 24 18 8 3 4 23 16 +13 48
7 Juventus 30 11 3 1 34 12 7 2 6 13 13 +22 44 (*)*
8 Bologna 30 7 6 3 21 11 5 2 7 18 26 +2 44
9 Fiorentina 29 6 5 4 20 20 5 3 6 14 12 +2 41
10 Sassuolo 30 7 3 5 19 16 4 4 7 19 27 -5 40
11 Udinese 30 4 8 2 24 17 5 4 7 15 22 0 39
12 Torino 30 5 5 5 12 14 5 4 6 19 22 -5 39
13 Monza 30 5 4 6 19 18 5 4 6 16 23 -6 38
14 Empoli 30 5 4 5 13 15 2 7 7 12 22 -12 32
15 Salernitana 30 4 5 6 20 21 2 7 6 14 29 -16 30
16 Lecce 30 2 7 6 15 20 4 3 8 11 16 -10 28
17 Spezia 30 3 8 5 16 24 2 3 9 9 24 -23 26
18 Verona 30 5 2 8 17 23 0 6 9 7 20 -19 23
19 Cremonese 30 2 3 10 9 25 1 7 7 18 29 -27 19
20 Sampdoria 30 1 4 10 8 22 2 3 10 11 29 -32 16
*Juventus deducted 15pts |  | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:09 - Apr 17 with 1347 views | itfcjoe |
He'll prob get another Champ job when a club panics next year, but it needs to be one at a bigger club that is panicking and has some raw materials there to mould. Blackpool were a squad totally set up to play one way and didn't have the players he needed.
Poor choice from him, but can see why he did it as he's never really failed in short term - poor choice from Blackpool though.
I don't think that will be his last job though, he'll have another go at keeping a team up and probably succeed, but then he'll still take one job too many until he is no longer wanted |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:24 - Apr 17 with 1326 views | Parsley |
In terms of where it went wrong, I'd probably guess at Cardiff. After leaving Ipswich his stock was still high as people felt that he did the best job he could with the resources available. (Remember all the 'be careful what you wish for' comments?). He then went on to do a decent job for Ireland in what seemed to be basically a caretaker manager role and got off to a good start with Cardiff.
The start of what should have been his first full season at Cardiff didn't go well and he was sacked in October. Who knows where they would have finished if he'd have been given more time, he'd had a few seasons at all of his previous clubs (I'm ignoring APOEL here). But I think this early sacking is what probably meant the bigger teams in the Championship weren't looking at him and then he ended up taking the Blackpool job which seems like it wasn't a good fit. I could see him getting another go in the Championship but it will be at a club with limited resources and needing to outperform expectations. |  | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:40 - Apr 17 with 1324 views | PhilTWTD |
In the latter period when he was with us, between the announcement of his departure and his exit, he said something to the media while we were chatting rather than in the presser itself along the lines of "perhaps what we do doesn't work any more" and I suspect he was right. |  | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:47 - Apr 17 with 1299 views | Radlett_blue |
Aged 64, I doubt Mick needs to worry about his career being at a "crossroads" as he has been well paid & shouldn't need to work again, while he could also go down the pundit route. As others have said, the best he is likely to get is a lower league firefighting job & I can't see why he'd do that unless he has to have the adrenaline that being in the dugout produces.
That having been said, he was a good manager for ITFC, saving us from a probable relegation & turning us into play off contenders. Even the 2017-18 season started with promise after he brought in the excellent Martyn Waghorn & the useful Joe Garner (typical Mick ugly striker). I'll almost forgive him for signing Tom Adeymi. |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 14:01 - Apr 17 with 1288 views | Buhrer |
Yorkshire. |  | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 14:04 - Apr 17 with 1283 views | MattinLondon |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:40 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
In the latter period when he was with us, between the announcement of his departure and his exit, he said something to the media while we were chatting rather than in the presser itself along the lines of "perhaps what we do doesn't work any more" and I suspect he was right. |
Unfortunately for Mick, his stubbornness seems to be his biggest downfall. He obviously has a lot of strengths but he seems to be far too entrenched in his beliefs to move with the times.
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for him - he was paid handsomely well by Evans to be his human shield and he seemed ok with that until most fans got tired of him. |  | | |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 14:10 - Apr 17 with 1264 views | hype313 |
Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint, under the Evans regime, this place was where Managers came to die, see McCarthy, Jewell, Keane and Lambert. |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 15:11 - Apr 17 with 1203 views | tractordownsouth |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:40 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
In the latter period when he was with us, between the announcement of his departure and his exit, he said something to the media while we were chatting rather than in the presser itself along the lines of "perhaps what we do doesn't work any more" and I suspect he was right. |
Tactically I think it's possible to still do what he does with the right players, but without getting results and making the effort to connect with the fans it goes tits up quickly.
I posted the article on the Blackpool forum and they seemed to think he was unprepared for the job. Apparently in a press conference he said he'd only watched one of their matches on TV before taking over. He applied for other Championship jobs earlier in the season and was clearly looking to get back into management so you'd have thought he'd have made more of an effort to keep up to date with things before jumping back in. |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 15:16 - Apr 17 with 1194 views | tractordownsouth |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:09 - Apr 17 by itfcjoe |
He'll prob get another Champ job when a club panics next year, but it needs to be one at a bigger club that is panicking and has some raw materials there to mould. Blackpool were a squad totally set up to play one way and didn't have the players he needed.
Poor choice from him, but can see why he did it as he's never really failed in short term - poor choice from Blackpool though.
I don't think that will be his last job though, he'll have another go at keeping a team up and probably succeed, but then he'll still take one job too many until he is no longer wanted |
Yeah agreed Mick didn't have the most suitable squad at Blackpool, especially being without Gary Madine for a lot of his time there.
With us he had enough physicality in the team to make the direct football work straight away and the Cardiff squad he inherited had played under Neil Warnock and Neil Harris before him so the style was fairly similar to what they were used to.
Not sure he'll get a Champ job but we'll see. | |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 17:26 - Apr 17 with 1153 views | PioneerBlue |
Why is this a discussion topic in 2023? The game moved on and he and Ipswich went in different directions.
Edited [Post edited 18 Apr 2023 8:21]
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 18:11 - Apr 17 with 1123 views | jayessess |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 15:11 - Apr 17 by tractordownsouth |
Tactically I think it's possible to still do what he does with the right players, but without getting results and making the effort to connect with the fans it goes tits up quickly.
I posted the article on the Blackpool forum and they seemed to think he was unprepared for the job. Apparently in a press conference he said he'd only watched one of their matches on TV before taking over. He applied for other Championship jobs earlier in the season and was clearly looking to get back into management so you'd have thought he'd have made more of an effort to keep up to date with things before jumping back in. |
Don't think you can really point to many teams in the EFL that play McCarthy-like football to great success these days.
His modern-day equivalent is probably people like Nathan Jones, Gareth Ainsworth, Paul Warne, but their direct football is much more front foot - it's all high press, high defensive line, you launch the ball forward and squish the other team into their own penalty area. |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 23:03 - Apr 17 with 1066 views | WeWereZombies |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 17:26 - Apr 17 by PioneerBlue |
Why is this a discussion topic in 2023? The game moved on and he and Ipswich went in different directions.
Edited [Post edited 18 Apr 2023 8:21]
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And yet, after asking why this is a discussion topic, you add three paragraphs to the discussion... |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 23:09 - Apr 17 with 1060 views | Trequartista |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 13:40 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
In the latter period when he was with us, between the announcement of his departure and his exit, he said something to the media while we were chatting rather than in the presser itself along the lines of "perhaps what we do doesn't work any more" and I suspect he was right. |
What he did always worked used to work at Championship level and not at Premier League level. Then the Championship went international. To find success with what he does would now be in League One. He'd probably get Bristol Rovers or some such like into the playoffs. |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 07:56 - Apr 18 with 973 views | Churchman |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 09:37 - Apr 16 by ArnieM |
He’s brand of football is old hat , and frankly significantly outdated in the modern game. Usually his best attributes are to shore up leaky teams battling against relegation, beyond that he rarely
“ builds” ( I think Wolves being the only exception?) |
Wolves went down two divisions after McCarthy left, so whatever he built collapsed.
However, at 64 McCarthy/TC have made a good career in the management game. By and large his way of doing things worked and there is a place for that form of football, even if it fails at the higher levels.
I believe the point made by another poster that everything has a lifespan is true. Maybe the difference in age between him and the players is a factor (wasn’t for Ferguson isn’t for Warnock), maybe his choice of clubs after Ipswich was poor, maybe the modern players don’t respond in the way they did 15 years ago, maybe the game has changed.
Who knows, but he’s had a good run. |  | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 08:22 - Apr 18 with 935 views | PioneerBlue |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 23:03 - Apr 17 by WeWereZombies |
And yet, after asking why this is a discussion topic, you add three paragraphs to the discussion... |
I take your point. Edited. | |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 08:35 - Apr 18 with 929 views | jayessess |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 07:56 - Apr 18 by Churchman |
Wolves went down two divisions after McCarthy left, so whatever he built collapsed.
However, at 64 McCarthy/TC have made a good career in the management game. By and large his way of doing things worked and there is a place for that form of football, even if it fails at the higher levels.
I believe the point made by another poster that everything has a lifespan is true. Maybe the difference in age between him and the players is a factor (wasn’t for Ferguson isn’t for Warnock), maybe his choice of clubs after Ipswich was poor, maybe the modern players don’t respond in the way they did 15 years ago, maybe the game has changed.
Who knows, but he’s had a good run. |
It's probably about how open people are to learning new things, isn't it?
Mick's 10 years younger than Warnock, 11 years younger than Hodgson, hell, he's only 1 year older than Carlo Ancelotti. But he never struck me as a manager who got excited by new coaching innovations or who put much store in being a "student of the game". On the rare occasions that he tried something new, he'd retreat quickly back to Plan A if something went wrong.
Listening to Alan Lee's interview with Blue Monday last year it was really interesting just how ingrained that attitude became at the club. Lee was incredibly cynical about the prospect of playing a different style of football post-McCarthy. Basically the attitude was that with a under-powered budget, there was only one way to play, one way that maximised your resources - very direct on the ball, highly structured off it. That was the way, anything else was naïve. | |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 08:39 - Apr 18 with 927 views | Iwasthere |
I will always be grateful too the fans at Burton who turned to him and chanted "should we pick the team for you" It was the beginning of the end for him, and from that moment he turned on the fans.
He was complicit with Evans with the sole aim to keep us in the championship. He had no ambition other than to take a good salary. There was no pressure on him to get promotion or to compete in cups, it suited him 100%. He is now where he belongs, on the dole, no doubt counting his money and laughing at us mugs who put up with him for far to long. | | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 08:47 - Apr 18 with 918 views | jayessess |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 08:39 - Apr 18 by Iwasthere |
I will always be grateful too the fans at Burton who turned to him and chanted "should we pick the team for you" It was the beginning of the end for him, and from that moment he turned on the fans.
He was complicit with Evans with the sole aim to keep us in the championship. He had no ambition other than to take a good salary. There was no pressure on him to get promotion or to compete in cups, it suited him 100%. He is now where he belongs, on the dole, no doubt counting his money and laughing at us mugs who put up with him for far to long. |
I can't have this much ire for McCarthy given what came after.
He was hired to do a particular job for an owner who wanted to invest at a particular level. On the football side he did that job with diligence, professionalism and competence. On the PR side, not so much. | |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 09:01 - Apr 18 with 891 views | clive_baker |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 12:38 - Apr 16 by patrickswell |
I did get annoyed by a post I saw on Twitter recently after the Derby game which linked to a tweet from the night Mick quit in which the poster cited that as the night things changed at ITFC and led us to where we are now. There’s a few others who’ve used McKenna’s record and form in League One as a stick to bash McCarthy with. I get that aesthetics may be playing a part in that, but given what the club went through between June 2018 and April 2021 - followed by further bumps up to December 2021, I really don’t think that those doing it have quite thought their attacks through. Mick didn’t help himself but he was never the biggest problem at ITFC and it is staggering that he was the only one of Evans’s picks who managed to get even the basics of team management right.
Take his reign out of it, and the Evans era was the longest ongoing run of incompetence and underperformance in the club’s history. |
Agree. Mick left us safely in the Championship with a solid, mid table squad of players. I don't see how it's his fault that he was replaced by a clown who, together with the owner, flogged said players and replaced them with dross from the lower leagues. |  |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 09:45 - Apr 18 with 833 views | Radlett_blue |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 08:47 - Apr 18 by jayessess |
I can't have this much ire for McCarthy given what came after.
He was hired to do a particular job for an owner who wanted to invest at a particular level. On the football side he did that job with diligence, professionalism and competence. On the PR side, not so much. |
Abd what came before. Keane had wasted Evans's cash; Jewell initially did well but then made plenty of ill judged signings & Town were heading for the 3rd tier when Mick arrived. It wasn't always pretty, but the man knew what he was doing.And with the right appointment after Mick left, Twon would have continued to stagnate in the bottom half of the 2nd tier. Evans appointed 6 managers during his reign & Mick was vastly superior to the rest of them. | |
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| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 10:25 - Apr 18 with 810 views | Bluroo |
"Once considered among the finest managers in the Championship"...
I don't think anyone who considers the identify of a football club and the brand of football played to be vitally important, would agree with that statement. | | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 10:42 - Apr 18 with 792 views | MattinLondon |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 10:25 - Apr 18 by Bluroo |
"Once considered among the finest managers in the Championship"...
I don't think anyone who considers the identify of a football club and the brand of football played to be vitally important, would agree with that statement. |
Bit unfair. At Wolves he did play with two out-and-out wingers and they were quite attacking. I seem to remember that whilst doing good things at Wolves he was linked with more prestigious jobs.
But unfortunately for him that was a long long time ago. | | | |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 11:54 - Apr 18 with 764 views | Bluroo |
| Where did it all go wrong for Mick McCarthy? on 10:42 - Apr 18 by MattinLondon |
Bit unfair. At Wolves he did play with two out-and-out wingers and they were quite attacking. I seem to remember that whilst doing good things at Wolves he was linked with more prestigious jobs.
But unfortunately for him that was a long long time ago. |
Bit generous! There is a lot more to establishing a footballing philosophy than playing a couple of wingers occasionally. The article that inspired this conversation reminds us that even his spell at Wolves turned to porridge eventually. | | | |
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