| Budgets....Or squad value? 13:46 - Apr 24 with 6912 views | BigCommon |
I find this " budget" argument quite pointless and a little annoying, when it's thrown at us, by some sets of oppo fans...
Take Plymouth for example. OK, so they haven't paid transfer fees for a fare few of their star performers? So what? I haven't done the maths, but if you add up the value of certain loan players, and add to the value of their overall squad. Is their such a massive chasm, between their squad value, ie, what their manager has at his disposal. And ours, or SW or Derby's, etc..?
Only reason I mention it, is because, it's the laziest argument I've heard, to validate Schumakers award for L1 manager OY...When you look in his box of tools, they arent cheap and nasty tools he's using....
I still think he's done a good job and Plymouth have played some good football to be where they are, no question...But that particular caveat of "It's all been done on a low budget " is a bit misleading, imo. Kinda suggests he's had nothing to work with.
I guess I'm being protective of KMc, because the argument implies that KM and Ipswich results are all down to budget. Which we know , is not entirely true... |  | | |  |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:40 - Apr 24 with 1315 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
Coming from someone who once said KM was Smarmy. You couldn't be more wrong
Firstly, plymouth have been on the fair share of good fortune with officials. That's not saying town haven't on occasions but plymouth have too, including one of the goals in the first game between the clubs.
2. You are right. We've spent.
But. You haven't watched the likes of Wolfenden. Burgess this season who KM has turned into a deadly defensive duo, neither player was purchased under KM. He also held the trust in an unproven teenager who was nominated for the young player of the season. He's been coached well, played a few different roles for us and is a better player now than when he came in. |  |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:42 - Apr 24 with 1308 views | BigCommon |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
I would argue that your squad is worth more than 10m, whether you own the players or not. It's still a 10 million plus squad.
Which is the point I was trying to make in the OP. | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:42 - Apr 24 with 1302 views | Illinoisblue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
It’s a very narrow look, though, isn’t it, to focus on budget. This is his first full season as a manager and he’s doing great. Clearly it’s no hindrance to have ambitious backers but let’s be clear: a big part of the reason we got new players in the Jan window is because we lost loan striker John-Jules to injury, and lost midfielder Evans for the season meaning we had to play a 19-year-old kid in his place.
I don’t recall those “snide” remarks and doubt very much that McKenna gives much thought to your manager. |  |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:46 - Apr 24 with 1270 views | pointofblue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
Perhaps McKenna still had Houghton’s foul on Chaplin in the build up to the equaliser at Home Park in mind when he said that! An awful lot is perhaps harsh, though margins - which he also said - is possibly fairer, considering where Plymouth sit in the xG table compared to the actual table. Mind games no doubt at work, either way. But credit to you, you’re taking more of your chances. If we’d managed to do that, especially between Halloween and Valentines Day, we’d probably be champions by now.
I’d say there is no question Schumacher deserves manager of the year, and has done a better job than McKenna and Moore, even if both Town and Wednesday usurp Argyle in the top two, not that I can see that happening. Maybe controversial, but I think McKenna has matched expectations but little more than that. |  |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:51 - Apr 24 with 1238 views | LankHenners |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
Sorry but that's a load of tripe. Like most managers (or managers who aren't Joey Barton) he's always pretty respectful to the opposition club and manager, Plymouth and Schumacher included. You'll have to point out the 'decisions' comment as I can't recall it.
In general I think most people here would find Plymouth fans to be a good bunch and be either pleased or at worst ambivalent about them finding success but seems to be a few of your lot about this season with chips on their shoulders determined to play victim and claim no-one likes you, is mean to you, writes you off etc. regardless of the truth of things.
Fair enough if the club want to play that card internally for motivational purposes but the fanbase can give it a rest, especially if they're coming onto opposition forums to do it. |  |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:52 - Apr 24 with 1224 views | lizzibee |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 13:56 - Apr 24 by Illinoisblue |
The end of season banter wars are going to be quite something. If we go up, it will all be “they bought promotion, money money, blah blah”. With added digs if we finish second. “Best team in L1 couldn’t even buy their way to the league title.” It will get very salty.
If the worst happens, then it will be best to avoid the internet for a few months. Budgies will be using those “Norwich city, we’re coming for you” video clips and adding “you’ll need to be in the same league to do that, lol” |
Dont forget the 'we cheated by pretending we had three internationals to move the Barnsley game' and 'we manage to get the refs we want by writing to the EFL'. Sure they won't get mentioned alongside (especially on Owlstalk). | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:08 - Apr 24 with 1145 views | mattrolow |
I've raised this before and got told I don't understand how loans work.
Plymouth have done a great job and assembling a squad, including identifying excellent loan signings and signings that they have, and that should be applauded. They're relentless in their ability to find a way to win games even if it's by the one goal, or a deflection...
It's just a shame they can't accept that they are performing above their budget and are using the loan market to do this. There seems to be some weird denial that loan players add anything to their squad at this very moment. Going into next season, obviously you can't count them.
You can't have the best full back in the league, apparently, but then say he doesn't count in the squad value argument because he's on loan.
It's incredibly impressive and should be applauded, it's just not the fairytale they're trying to say it is. | | | |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:13 - Apr 24 with 1129 views | itfcjoe |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
This is part of this weird narrative some Plymouth fans have that no one is giving them enough credit. Everyone speaks glowingly of Plymouth.
“I think they’ve done very, very well, it must be said,” he continued. “I think they got 80 points last year, which is very unusual for that not to get you in the play-offs. Again, they are on 57 points already this season which is an incredible tally, really.
“They are obviously doing a lot of things well. They’ve got a good manager [Steven Schumacher], they’ve got good organisation, they are good in all phases and they’ve had individuals stepping up at big moments.
“They’ve won a lot of tight games through very, very good individual goals and they’ve won a lot of tight games through big saves from their goalkeeper [Michael Cooper].
“We respect them and we know they are a strong opponent, but we focus on ourselves, and we have to be ready for Saturday and bring the best of ourselves.”
And
“They’ve been very impressive,” McKenna said. “They were very impressive at the back end of last season, the second half of the season and were unlucky given their points total not to be in the play-offs because I think in any other season they would have been.
“They were unlucky to just miss out but it’s not affected them in any way, they’ve evolved the squad again this year, made some good additions personnel-wise, they’ve evolved their systems a little bit, they’ve got a little bit more variation now in how they play.
“Steve’s continued his good work since he’s been in that role and has continued to improve the team and it’s no surprise that they’ve got such a good home a record and have had such a good start because they’re a well-balanced and well-coached team across all phases and they have good players in their squad to boot.”
Argyle have coped with losing midfielder Panutche Camara to Town and striker Luke Jephcott, who joined Swindon on loan.
“I think they’re a club who have a clear model of playing, I think that always helps, for one. And that’s where we want to be as well,” McKenna continued.
“I think if you have a clear model of play and you know the requirements for each position then it’s a lot easier to make additions where players can slot into the team and fit into what you do very well.
“I think Plymouth have been pretty consistent over the last few years with Steven and with Ryan Lowe before that in terms of the system and the style of play.
“And when you have that, it enables them to make smarter additions to the group and I think they’ve managed to that this year.” |  |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:20 - Apr 24 with 1092 views | mattrolow |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:13 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
This is part of this weird narrative some Plymouth fans have that no one is giving them enough credit. Everyone speaks glowingly of Plymouth.
“I think they’ve done very, very well, it must be said,” he continued. “I think they got 80 points last year, which is very unusual for that not to get you in the play-offs. Again, they are on 57 points already this season which is an incredible tally, really.
“They are obviously doing a lot of things well. They’ve got a good manager [Steven Schumacher], they’ve got good organisation, they are good in all phases and they’ve had individuals stepping up at big moments.
“They’ve won a lot of tight games through very, very good individual goals and they’ve won a lot of tight games through big saves from their goalkeeper [Michael Cooper].
“We respect them and we know they are a strong opponent, but we focus on ourselves, and we have to be ready for Saturday and bring the best of ourselves.”
And
“They’ve been very impressive,” McKenna said. “They were very impressive at the back end of last season, the second half of the season and were unlucky given their points total not to be in the play-offs because I think in any other season they would have been.
“They were unlucky to just miss out but it’s not affected them in any way, they’ve evolved the squad again this year, made some good additions personnel-wise, they’ve evolved their systems a little bit, they’ve got a little bit more variation now in how they play.
“Steve’s continued his good work since he’s been in that role and has continued to improve the team and it’s no surprise that they’ve got such a good home a record and have had such a good start because they’re a well-balanced and well-coached team across all phases and they have good players in their squad to boot.”
Argyle have coped with losing midfielder Panutche Camara to Town and striker Luke Jephcott, who joined Swindon on loan.
“I think they’re a club who have a clear model of playing, I think that always helps, for one. And that’s where we want to be as well,” McKenna continued.
“I think if you have a clear model of play and you know the requirements for each position then it’s a lot easier to make additions where players can slot into the team and fit into what you do very well.
“I think Plymouth have been pretty consistent over the last few years with Steven and with Ryan Lowe before that in terms of the system and the style of play.
“And when you have that, it enables them to make smarter additions to the group and I think they’ve managed to that this year.” |
Exactly this, it's a weird narrative.
Everyone thinks Plymouth have done an amazing job and would congratulate them for being up there. I don't think anyone begrudges them going up - as long as its not in place of their team.
Just wish they wouldn't keep looking for this extra gold star for doing it. Tiresome. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 16:24]
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:23 - Apr 24 with 1077 views | clive_baker |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:13 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
This is part of this weird narrative some Plymouth fans have that no one is giving them enough credit. Everyone speaks glowingly of Plymouth.
“I think they’ve done very, very well, it must be said,” he continued. “I think they got 80 points last year, which is very unusual for that not to get you in the play-offs. Again, they are on 57 points already this season which is an incredible tally, really.
“They are obviously doing a lot of things well. They’ve got a good manager [Steven Schumacher], they’ve got good organisation, they are good in all phases and they’ve had individuals stepping up at big moments.
“They’ve won a lot of tight games through very, very good individual goals and they’ve won a lot of tight games through big saves from their goalkeeper [Michael Cooper].
“We respect them and we know they are a strong opponent, but we focus on ourselves, and we have to be ready for Saturday and bring the best of ourselves.”
And
“They’ve been very impressive,” McKenna said. “They were very impressive at the back end of last season, the second half of the season and were unlucky given their points total not to be in the play-offs because I think in any other season they would have been.
“They were unlucky to just miss out but it’s not affected them in any way, they’ve evolved the squad again this year, made some good additions personnel-wise, they’ve evolved their systems a little bit, they’ve got a little bit more variation now in how they play.
“Steve’s continued his good work since he’s been in that role and has continued to improve the team and it’s no surprise that they’ve got such a good home a record and have had such a good start because they’re a well-balanced and well-coached team across all phases and they have good players in their squad to boot.”
Argyle have coped with losing midfielder Panutche Camara to Town and striker Luke Jephcott, who joined Swindon on loan.
“I think they’re a club who have a clear model of playing, I think that always helps, for one. And that’s where we want to be as well,” McKenna continued.
“I think if you have a clear model of play and you know the requirements for each position then it’s a lot easier to make additions where players can slot into the team and fit into what you do very well.
“I think Plymouth have been pretty consistent over the last few years with Steven and with Ryan Lowe before that in terms of the system and the style of play.
“And when you have that, it enables them to make smarter additions to the group and I think they’ve managed to that this year.” |
Disgusting from KM, publicly slating Plymouth like that. My mum used to say if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. |  |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:27 - Apr 24 with 1053 views | pointofblue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:20 - Apr 24 by mattrolow |
Exactly this, it's a weird narrative.
Everyone thinks Plymouth have done an amazing job and would congratulate them for being up there. I don't think anyone begrudges them going up - as long as its not in place of their team.
Just wish they wouldn't keep looking for this extra gold star for doing it. Tiresome. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 16:24]
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Bournemouth were far worse in 2014/15. That was painful, as there approach was more like ours than Plymouth’s, yet were still presented as punching above their weight. | |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:36 - Apr 24 with 1027 views | NthQldITFC |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
Wow. Over-sensitive if you ask me.
I like Plymouth and want you to come up with us. And Barnsley. |  |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:41 - Apr 24 with 1004 views | xrayspecs |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
KM has been very complimentary about PAFC, as he has been with all the clubs in the division,he is not the type of manager who disrespects other teams.
KM did make a comment about your tendency to come out on the right side of tight games. It was not about decisions per se. This was in the context (at the time) of Town mainly being on the wrong end of dubious refereeing decisions, deflected equalisers etc. His point was that this is a fine margins game and fortune should even itself over time.
We have had in our current run a few decisions go our way, which is nice to see, albeit another stonewall penalty not given on Saturday. Your recent deflected winner at Exeter and the 96th minute winner at Shrewsbury, you are certainly continuing to find ways to win games. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 16:51]
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 17:54 - Apr 24 with 905 views | Vegtablue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:28 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Didn't think that was a dig? I'm not aware of another L1 club spending as much as Ipswich.
However - on that point. We're definitely not happy with McKenna for his generally snidy remarks such as 'Plymouth have had an awful lot of decisions'. I can't recall him ever saying anything nice about us.
Very poor. Even more so given the respective budgets. Comes across unlikable and bitter towards Schuey. |
Ha! I have a strong hunch McKenna would be complimentary of 'Schuey' if invited. Has he been asked about Argyle outside of the build-up/aftermath to our matches together? Does your man talk much about Ipswich or McKenna? Has he been kind to us? I hope he has!
The XG L1 table has your lads currently in 7th on 67 points and our lads in 1st on 105 points. I'm not convinced it's sustainable to run that far ahead of probabilities in the medium term, so I do wonder how Plymouth will compete in the Championship next season. Probably Cooper accounts for a portion of those extra points, which is perhaps sustainable if you keep hold of him. Maybe your players are also just better at shooting! But Championship players are a step above here too.
Schumacher is a worthy manager of the season for what he's in the process of achieving and he's clearly worked with less resources. In McKenna it's not just the points total, which is awesome (but we've invested enough for these!); it's the systems of play and they put us a wide margin ahead of the rest of the league in attacking and defensive performance markers (if not points!). | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 17:55 - Apr 24 with 904 views | Argyle_Fan |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:37 - Apr 24 by Kropotkin123 |
5 worthy CM replacements? Must be having a laugh. We've had a 19 year old youth team player, with no previous league experience step up and start 10 games and come on as a sub for 7. He did well, but we haven't had midfield options for a significant portion of the season.
In defence we lost two of our three first choice CB. One had his face broken, FFS.
Other clubs talk about their/our injuries like we didn't lose our best CBs and CMs. Why aren't we talking about losing our strikers? Because we only had one to begin the season, until we got Hirst in. We had our injury crisis earlier than others, and therefore had our dip in automatic promotion form earlier than others.
No one would be talking about Chaplin if we hadn't improved him as a player. Barnsley sold him to us!!! He score 4 in over 30 games for Barnsley prior to joining us. He scored 9 last season. His 23 goals this season are down to his hard work and our coaching, not because we bought a proven player who was guaranteed to be great.
EDIT: And FYI, Chaplin's transfer fee was ~£750k. When we tried to buy Whittaker it was for >£1m. So you had someone playing for you who was worth >£1m. This is why people don't buy the whole no money thing. You've had highly valued players on loan. We've purchased highly valued players. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 15:50]
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The thread is about comparing Ipswich's budget vs Argyle. Up until Jan of this year (when we were at our best and had yet to sign Matete), we had 3 cm's. Randell, Butcher and Houghton. Randell is an academy lad. Butcher rejected a contract extension from Accrington and Houghton was released by MK Dons. Comparing that to your side - you have Morsy, Ball, Camara, Evans, Humphreys - have I missed anyone? When I say worthy, I was referring to the extra depth, the higher profile of player. I'm not disputing potential injuries - I'm just comparing the options. We literally had Randell, a released lad from MK Dons, and a journeyman type player from Accrington. The latter two of whom wouldn't get a sniff in your side.
Comparing the value of a purchase with a loan player (Whittaker), doesn't seem a very balanced argument. Firstly, Whittaker had a bang average loan at Lincoln. He wasn't hot. He wasn't in demand. Furthermore, you and Wednesday have utilised the loan market, despite your post reading as though you haven't. Whether TJJ or Hirst or anybody epse matched upto Whittaker however, is a separate topic. But you've been benefitting from the loan market also.
I know you've had injuries but you haven't had injuries or loss of players anywhere near as bad as us. Losing Whittaker, Cooper and Randell is losing perhaps the 3 most gifted players in the squad. Azaz was out for 2 months. Scarr the same. As far as I can see, your very best players have largely been unaffected - the likes of Chaplin, Morsy, Davis etc (I'm talking long term injury).
You guys have the best roster of players but if you lost Broadhead, Morsy and Chaplin for effectively the rest of the season (Randell just came back for his 1st start vs Cambridge), I think that would have a massive impact on your side. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 18:07]
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:01 - Apr 24 with 890 views | Vegtablue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 16:13 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
This is part of this weird narrative some Plymouth fans have that no one is giving them enough credit. Everyone speaks glowingly of Plymouth.
“I think they’ve done very, very well, it must be said,” he continued. “I think they got 80 points last year, which is very unusual for that not to get you in the play-offs. Again, they are on 57 points already this season which is an incredible tally, really.
“They are obviously doing a lot of things well. They’ve got a good manager [Steven Schumacher], they’ve got good organisation, they are good in all phases and they’ve had individuals stepping up at big moments.
“They’ve won a lot of tight games through very, very good individual goals and they’ve won a lot of tight games through big saves from their goalkeeper [Michael Cooper].
“We respect them and we know they are a strong opponent, but we focus on ourselves, and we have to be ready for Saturday and bring the best of ourselves.”
And
“They’ve been very impressive,” McKenna said. “They were very impressive at the back end of last season, the second half of the season and were unlucky given their points total not to be in the play-offs because I think in any other season they would have been.
“They were unlucky to just miss out but it’s not affected them in any way, they’ve evolved the squad again this year, made some good additions personnel-wise, they’ve evolved their systems a little bit, they’ve got a little bit more variation now in how they play.
“Steve’s continued his good work since he’s been in that role and has continued to improve the team and it’s no surprise that they’ve got such a good home a record and have had such a good start because they’re a well-balanced and well-coached team across all phases and they have good players in their squad to boot.”
Argyle have coped with losing midfielder Panutche Camara to Town and striker Luke Jephcott, who joined Swindon on loan.
“I think they’re a club who have a clear model of playing, I think that always helps, for one. And that’s where we want to be as well,” McKenna continued.
“I think if you have a clear model of play and you know the requirements for each position then it’s a lot easier to make additions where players can slot into the team and fit into what you do very well.
“I think Plymouth have been pretty consistent over the last few years with Steven and with Ryan Lowe before that in terms of the system and the style of play.
“And when you have that, it enables them to make smarter additions to the group and I think they’ve managed to that this year.” |
Ha even sillier then he has been complimentary! Often fans spin these narratives in order to create stronger bonds among themselves, which is probably why Plymouth fans are reluctant to shed themselves of the notion that the rest of the league is disrespectful / dismissive of them. | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:06 - Apr 24 with 875 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 17:55 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
The thread is about comparing Ipswich's budget vs Argyle. Up until Jan of this year (when we were at our best and had yet to sign Matete), we had 3 cm's. Randell, Butcher and Houghton. Randell is an academy lad. Butcher rejected a contract extension from Accrington and Houghton was released by MK Dons. Comparing that to your side - you have Morsy, Ball, Camara, Evans, Humphreys - have I missed anyone? When I say worthy, I was referring to the extra depth, the higher profile of player. I'm not disputing potential injuries - I'm just comparing the options. We literally had Randell, a released lad from MK Dons, and a journeyman type player from Accrington. The latter two of whom wouldn't get a sniff in your side.
Comparing the value of a purchase with a loan player (Whittaker), doesn't seem a very balanced argument. Firstly, Whittaker had a bang average loan at Lincoln. He wasn't hot. He wasn't in demand. Furthermore, you and Wednesday have utilised the loan market, despite your post reading as though you haven't. Whether TJJ or Hirst or anybody epse matched upto Whittaker however, is a separate topic. But you've been benefitting from the loan market also.
I know you've had injuries but you haven't had injuries or loss of players anywhere near as bad as us. Losing Whittaker, Cooper and Randell is losing perhaps the 3 most gifted players in the squad. Azaz was out for 2 months. Scarr the same. As far as I can see, your very best players have largely been unaffected - the likes of Chaplin, Morsy, Davis etc (I'm talking long term injury).
You guys have the best roster of players but if you lost Broadhead, Morsy and Chaplin for effectively the rest of the season (Randell just came back for his 1st start vs Cambridge), I think that would have a massive impact on your side. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 18:07]
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I know you've had injuries but you haven't had injuries or loss of players anywhere near as bad as us
Erm
Before injury. Evans was top 2 in league 1 for key passes in attacking areas. We lost him for 2 months. Then more.
Harness had scored regular goals.. got injured.
JJ the same as was influential in our high pressing game. Out for season.
We lost Evans and Ball resulting in having 1 fit CM with senior football experience | |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:11 - Apr 24 with 841 views | Wakh |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 17:55 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
The thread is about comparing Ipswich's budget vs Argyle. Up until Jan of this year (when we were at our best and had yet to sign Matete), we had 3 cm's. Randell, Butcher and Houghton. Randell is an academy lad. Butcher rejected a contract extension from Accrington and Houghton was released by MK Dons. Comparing that to your side - you have Morsy, Ball, Camara, Evans, Humphreys - have I missed anyone? When I say worthy, I was referring to the extra depth, the higher profile of player. I'm not disputing potential injuries - I'm just comparing the options. We literally had Randell, a released lad from MK Dons, and a journeyman type player from Accrington. The latter two of whom wouldn't get a sniff in your side.
Comparing the value of a purchase with a loan player (Whittaker), doesn't seem a very balanced argument. Firstly, Whittaker had a bang average loan at Lincoln. He wasn't hot. He wasn't in demand. Furthermore, you and Wednesday have utilised the loan market, despite your post reading as though you haven't. Whether TJJ or Hirst or anybody epse matched upto Whittaker however, is a separate topic. But you've been benefitting from the loan market also.
I know you've had injuries but you haven't had injuries or loss of players anywhere near as bad as us. Losing Whittaker, Cooper and Randell is losing perhaps the 3 most gifted players in the squad. Azaz was out for 2 months. Scarr the same. As far as I can see, your very best players have largely been unaffected - the likes of Chaplin, Morsy, Davis etc (I'm talking long term injury).
You guys have the best roster of players but if you lost Broadhead, Morsy and Chaplin for effectively the rest of the season (Randell just came back for his 1st start vs Cambridge), I think that would have a massive impact on your side. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 18:07]
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Werent Birmingham rumoured to have signed Cosgrove for £2m?
Azaz and Mumba would command fees far in excess of £1m
Whitaker bids rejected at north of £1m
Yeah, your budget is less, well done. However, there is little difference (On paper) between the team you have assembled and loaned and the team we have purchased. Yes we have loaned 2 but both on loan with a view to buy as i understand it.
Our teams paper value was less a few years ago when we had Chalobah on loan. It's all a very silly argument.
Well done on what you have achieved but we have done the loan thing. I am sure if were wernt moving to a more sustainable club we would have been competing against you in the loan market instead.
Personally i think the number of loanees should be reduced to three. When we had 8 it never felt like our Ipswich. Finally it does. | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:15 - Apr 24 with 816 views | Argyle_Fan |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:40 - Apr 24 by FrimleyBlue |
Coming from someone who once said KM was Smarmy. You couldn't be more wrong
Firstly, plymouth have been on the fair share of good fortune with officials. That's not saying town haven't on occasions but plymouth have too, including one of the goals in the first game between the clubs.
2. You are right. We've spent.
But. You haven't watched the likes of Wolfenden. Burgess this season who KM has turned into a deadly defensive duo, neither player was purchased under KM. He also held the trust in an unproven teenager who was nominated for the young player of the season. He's been coached well, played a few different roles for us and is a better player now than when he came in. |
Sure we have been, but I'm sure Ipswich and Weds have too. After 40+ games we have sat above Ipswich for nearly all if not the entire time? I can't recall. Seems an unnecessary comment from McK therefore.
I have no issue with Ipswich nor do I feel the need to say McK hasn't done well for you. But like many Argyle fans, we're not too fond of the man.
But otherwise I much prefer Ipswich to go up over Wed and if the league was to start today you would win it. Far too good for this league. | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:20 - Apr 24 with 775 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:15 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
Sure we have been, but I'm sure Ipswich and Weds have too. After 40+ games we have sat above Ipswich for nearly all if not the entire time? I can't recall. Seems an unnecessary comment from McK therefore.
I have no issue with Ipswich nor do I feel the need to say McK hasn't done well for you. But like many Argyle fans, we're not too fond of the man.
But otherwise I much prefer Ipswich to go up over Wed and if the league was to start today you would win it. Far too good for this league. |
I've said all season. I'd love for town and plymouth to go up then set up and end of season friendly before holidays in memory of Mariner. | |
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:22 - Apr 24 with 741 views | Argyle_Fan |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:06 - Apr 24 by FrimleyBlue |
I know you've had injuries but you haven't had injuries or loss of players anywhere near as bad as us
Erm
Before injury. Evans was top 2 in league 1 for key passes in attacking areas. We lost him for 2 months. Then more.
Harness had scored regular goals.. got injured.
JJ the same as was influential in our high pressing game. Out for season.
We lost Evans and Ball resulting in having 1 fit CM with senior football experience |
Without derailing the thread we have had just as many injuries. More importantly we lost our absolute very best players. Cooper, Whittaker, Randell, Azaz and Mumba are/were the best 5 at the club. Lost the first four - Randell and Azaz for something like 2-3 months and the other two permanently. Similarly, lost our number 1 cb for also 2 months (Scarr). Without blowing smoke up Schuey's backwide - it's the loss of the loss of these key players that's made what Schuey has done remarkable. It's like removing Morsy, Broadhead, Chaplin and Davis and Walton. Correct me if I am wrong - but my impression is that they are some of your very crucially important players. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 18:26]
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| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:23 - Apr 24 with 729 views | OldFart71 |
Really all a pointless argument and who cares. jealousy is a terrible thing. Just because my wife doesn't have legs right up to her backside, I don't have a £50,000 car in the driveway and my house doesn't have 15 bedrooms and six bathrooms and I haven't got a few mil in the bank doesn't make me jealous of the bloke that has. Not saying I wouldn't like them, but who wouldn't. Same as those in the Prem who look at Man City and those in League One who say " Well Ipswich should be near the top, they've spent the best part of £4 million on players" Doesn't guarantee anything i'm afraid. You only have to look at the struggles Kieran's old team Man Utd have had. Pogba at £90 million, Ronaldo second time around on massive wages. We have been lucky that Gamechanger choose us to invest in. I emphasize choose us as I presume they would have had any number of clubs to choose from. I also emphasize invest as they are not in it for the complete fun of it, they are playing high stakes with a pension fund and their ultimate aim will be to take money out of the club and probably sell. We as fans are aware of this. So for those that see us a chequebook ITFC think again. We will enjoy the ride and on this particular ride it's pay after you have got off. | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:29 - Apr 24 with 702 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 15:01 - Apr 24 by Guthrum |
Indeed. That also covers a period of significant squad turnover/renovation, plus spending on infrastructure. So probably higher than it would be otherwise.
Our Chief Exec, Mark Ashton, assures us that net transfer spending this year is practically zero, taking into account that fees are paid in installments and that we have sold several players (or received top-ups/installments from previous deals). |
A very minor, but perhaps interesting, correction is that Ashton actually said that ITFC would break even on transfer fees over 3 seasons, including next season. (We have picked up quite a bit in inwards fees in the meantime). He added that, even if we were to sell a player for £millions, we would still be left with a far stronger squad than when he came in. I don't think I would dispute that, and it does show that an active trading business model is a big part of our plan. | | | |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 18:30 - Apr 24 with 702 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Budgets....Or squad value? on 17:55 - Apr 24 by Argyle_Fan |
The thread is about comparing Ipswich's budget vs Argyle. Up until Jan of this year (when we were at our best and had yet to sign Matete), we had 3 cm's. Randell, Butcher and Houghton. Randell is an academy lad. Butcher rejected a contract extension from Accrington and Houghton was released by MK Dons. Comparing that to your side - you have Morsy, Ball, Camara, Evans, Humphreys - have I missed anyone? When I say worthy, I was referring to the extra depth, the higher profile of player. I'm not disputing potential injuries - I'm just comparing the options. We literally had Randell, a released lad from MK Dons, and a journeyman type player from Accrington. The latter two of whom wouldn't get a sniff in your side.
Comparing the value of a purchase with a loan player (Whittaker), doesn't seem a very balanced argument. Firstly, Whittaker had a bang average loan at Lincoln. He wasn't hot. He wasn't in demand. Furthermore, you and Wednesday have utilised the loan market, despite your post reading as though you haven't. Whether TJJ or Hirst or anybody epse matched upto Whittaker however, is a separate topic. But you've been benefitting from the loan market also.
I know you've had injuries but you haven't had injuries or loss of players anywhere near as bad as us. Losing Whittaker, Cooper and Randell is losing perhaps the 3 most gifted players in the squad. Azaz was out for 2 months. Scarr the same. As far as I can see, your very best players have largely been unaffected - the likes of Chaplin, Morsy, Davis etc (I'm talking long term injury).
You guys have the best roster of players but if you lost Broadhead, Morsy and Chaplin for effectively the rest of the season (Randell just came back for his 1st start vs Cambridge), I think that would have a massive impact on your side. [Post edited 24 Apr 2023 18:07]
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If you are going to reply to me, do me the favour of reading the whole thing and remember what you wrote. Here's a reminder:
We're somehow ahead of you and have been pretty much all season, despite also losing Whittaker, Cooper, Randell, Azaz and many others to very lengthy injuries.
You introduced injuries, and I responded to it. So screw this comment...
The thread is about comparing Ipswich's budget vs Argyle.
1. Evans was our best player. We were second when we lost him. Ball was injured. Camera was injured. Humphreys was a youth team graduate with no prior experience. That you list him is a testament to our youth team coaching and his ability. Not our budget.
2. You listing your injury crisis as worse is just because you know your team better than you know our team. Your results and consistency would support that ours crisis was worse, as yours hasn't impacted you as much. We dropped out of the top two in our crisis. When we have a fully fit squad we have torn things up. W11, D1, L0, F34, A2 |  |
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