Forum | Have we learned from transfer windows? by itfcjoe

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Have we learned from transfer windows? 15:33 - Jun 6 with 9103 views

I think it has been a little bit lost in the wash after the success of the last season, that last summers transfer window was pretty poor......the January window was absolutely superb. What lessons are learned?

Summer
Ladapo (8/10) - good striker, did well for us, but felt was always signed to be a back up

Ball (2/10) - 4 league starts, couldn't get in team ahead of Evans, then when we needed him was injured

Leigh (5/10) - was a very good back up, but ultimately started 3 league games in the season

Harness (6/10) - started the season very well, didn't seem to recover well from injury and then was replaced by end of seasonwhich after spending a decent sized fee surely wasn't the plan

Davis (9/10) - fantastic signing. Nuff said.

Keogh (3/10) - paid a fee for him, started 4 league games. Released at end of season.

Ahadme (1/10) - paid a fee, looked terrible, ended up outside team at Burton

Camara (1/10) - paid a decent fee, 1 league minute

John-Jules (4/10) - looked good at times, but missed over half the season

Some of these ratings may look harsh, I don't think they are, and obviously the players who missed time through injuries may come good in the future so this isn't a writing off of their Ipswich career.

But ultimately out of the 9 players we signed, 6 of them started less than 10 games for us so that is a pretty terrible hit rate. Out of the 3 who did make 10 starts, one of them ended up out of the team despite paying a relatively big fee for him. A pretty poor hit rate and the success of the January window covered at how poor a window we'd had.

January window

Luongo (8/10) - a superb addition who improved us as soon as he was fit. One point deduction for taking a couple of weeks to get fit.

Broadhead (9/10) - The difference maker

Clarke (7/10) - Ended up as big upgrade with room a lot of room to grow into

Hirst (8/10) - Gave us a new dimension up front, and also allowed Ladapo to play less minutes as we were so reliant on him

So for me transfer business this season
9/10 - Davis, Broadhead
8/10 - Ladapo, Luongo, Hirst
7/10 - Clarke
6/10 - Harness
5/10 - Leigh
4/10 - TJJ
3/10 - Keogh
2/10 - Ball
1/10 - Camara, Ahadme

What did we get right in January that we didn't in summer? What are the mitigating factors?

Business done quicker in Jan - targets identified earlier? Recruitment team more in place and with more time to prepare?

January traditionally harder to do business in - why did we buck that trend?

Less risks on signings - Camara was injured, Ahadme was a panic buy

Luck? TJJ and Ball suffering injuries

More aggressive? SIgnings of Clarke and Broadhead shouldn't have been possible for a L1 club.

Interested to know what people think - and what they think we need to do to ensure we have a repeat of January 2023, opposed to Summer 2022.

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:50 - Jun 6 with 2707 views

homer_123

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:45 - Jun 6 by BigCommon
Beat me to it, re Luongo... His presence and added control in MF, allowed Broadhead and Chaplin to excel , further up the pitch. And also gave more license for Davis and Burns to support... I don't think we would have gotten automatics without Luongo.

Luongo has been my revelation of a signing by homer_123 2 May 2023 14:55
His partnership with Morsy has been superb I really believe that this pairing has given cover to the defence whilst allowing much more freedom for our attacking players.

That said, Broadhead has been insane since he has joined us.

18 appearances
8 goals
6 assists
Involved in over 25% of our goals since he joined us

These two have been fantastic haven't they?!?!?

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 17:04 - Jun 6 with 2680 views

PhilTWTD

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:30 - Jun 6 by Metal_Hacker

Personally I don't think we did anything wrong in the Summer apart from miss out on or not identify a striker early enough ( or at least if identified , we didn't get him)

Quite clearly the major breach if there were any lessons to be learnt

Apart from that the purchases in Jan were born from having a fixed style of play , a loss of key midfield players and that missing cutting edge up front at times - that person with the mobility to shift defenders around that we wanted in the Summer (Hirst-type)

In came Luongo to plug that midfield gap and better than imagined I would've thought replacing a good but lightweight Cam , an injured Evans,Ball and Camara

In came Broadhead who was an upgrade on Harness and very much needed adding to that cutting edge along with Hirst

Also in Jan we got Clarke to freshen up the right side which also coincided with the better more consistent form from Burns

If anything was learnt it was whoever we have / had in the building there was always going to be an extra element required depending where we were in the League and the most apparent was that cutting edge missing from the start of the Summer , presumably missing out on Hirst

Maybe there was a lesson to be learnt , that being don't put all your eggs in one basket chasing one player (Hirst) if that was the case

Apart from the striker position I don't think ( finances to be considered) we could have wished for a much better Summer and definitely not a better Jan

So to conclude I guess for me it's have varying options is critical

[Post edited 6 Jun 2023 16:32]

We obviously wanted Hirst and then targeted Will Keane late on before moving for Ahadme even later on. Think we probably felt we were going to get Hirst in the end but Leicester were a bit of a mess behind the scenes apparently with indecision on letting him go or getting him to sign a new deal.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 17:49 - Jun 6 with 2577 views

bobbyramsey

Your lowest ranking players except Keogh all suffered long term injuries and therefore missed huge chunks of the season, can we really hold that against them?

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 17:51 - Jun 6 with 2583 views

itfcjoe

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 17:49 - Jun 6 by bobbyramsey
Your lowest ranking players except Keogh all suffered long term injuries and therefore missed huge chunks of the season, can we really hold that against them?

It’s not about holding anything against them, it’s that 6 of 9 barely contributed to our team this season whixh isn’t great

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:10 - Jun 6 with 2541 views

cbower

We paid bigger fees (Broadhead & Clarke), buisiness done early and we didn't chase someone for weeks right up to deadline (Hirst) leading to a panic buy (Ahadme). Make your move, be aggressive with bids and terms, move on if the deal is dragging. Buying injured players carries risks (see Huws) and Camara signing came out of the blue on deadline day and he was never remotely fit.

bluescouser

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:10 - Jun 6 with 2538 views

LankHenners

A little bit of all of the above really I think isn't it? Injuries - do we push for Broadhead if Harness/TJJ stay fit and keep up form? Do we bother bringing Luogno in for a trial if Ball/Evans don't get injured? Ruthless/aggressive/forward thinking - not many would say we needed a new RB as JD was more than fine but the club were clearly confident that they'd identified a position to improve and a player that could do just that.

Hirst they similarly pushed hard for after missing out in the summer but maybe leads to another point for this summer - Ashton talks very well about no stone unturned and how much goes into the whole process which is clearly true but hard not to feel like they'd made Hirst the prime target, ended up having the whole thing dragged out, he doesn't come here, late in the day we realise we still need another striker so take a bit of a punt on someone who gets injured almost immediately then ends up on loan at the place we got him from.

Very tough to get everything right as so many factors can delay or outright rule out something when you thought there was progress but that sort of situation is something the club really won't want happening again. What does seem clear from January is that we were much better at identifying targets and importantly being able to get them over the line which is something you'd hope we can take forward this summer.

The reality is butterflies are flapping their wings all over the place and a well run club is able to react to and preempt the ripples that causes, be it injuries or a player being sold. Think we're certainly heading that way now with the scouting team having been in place a year pretty much and you'd hope we're well placed to land top targets. Obviously can attract better players now we're in this league but equally are no longer a big/the biggest fish in the pond so have to make smart moves and not get hung up chasing someone and missing out.

What we have shown in January (and summer a bit tbf with Davis) is that we're good at identifying players from the 'young at Prem club not near the first team' pool where you'd imagine we'd be looking again. Only slight complication there is Prem clubs can faff about a bit and some like to have big squads travelling on their tours etc. so might have to be patient on those ones.

The way McKenna talks about 'attributes' when discussing transfers/player profiles, you get the impression he's always learning about what we need and what we lack. Think last season would have been really helpful on that front - things like our improvement after having a really tenacious and energetic midfielder in Luongo coming in, the difference in output between Broadhead and anyone else who's played that LAM/LF position etc. Good thing is he's very clear on what he wants and needs (and is getting better at judging that) so hopefully now the upstairs staff have had enough time to get everything in place to deliver that to him.

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:18 - Jun 6 with 2516 views

cressi

Don't quite agree only 2 players who either did not contribute one was a lack of ability from what I saw and the other player was bought injured and remaned injured all season.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:27 - Jun 6 with 2499 views

chicoazul

Let’s hope we have learned, and can persuade more excellent upgrades in the vein of Broadhead and Clarke to join us instead of the likes of Ahadme and Keogh.
Ashton is 60/40 for me in credit on signings since he arrived not including his Manager selection which was great of course. Quite a few significant failures in Harper Edwards Hladky etc and quite a few great successes in Davis Morsy Chaplin etc. Gotta get it right again this summer or we will struggle for top ten.

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:41 - Jun 6 with 2494 views

the_toff

Can't agree with a lot of this. You won't ever have a team of chiefs and no Indians, not every signing is going to be a key player and when you're signing a 27 year old left back on a free from Morecambe he's unlikely to. Leigh was likely only ever signed as a back up given we invested significantly on Davis before the season started and chased him for weeks. It's not like he proved poor and needed replacing a la Hladky.

Ladapo on a free, to score the goals he did was an incredibly astute bit of business.

Harness contributed a huge amount in the first half, Broadhead is a better player and his and Chaplin's exceptional form kept him out. But at £600k he's already proven valuable.

TJJ - very low risk, young loan signing who had bad fortune with injuries.

Keogh - Don't think he was ever earmarked to come in and play week in, week out. He was another cheap signing to guide a young squad.

Camara and Ball significantly hampered by injuries which can't be legislated for.

Ahadme was another cheap punt off the back of a bright start to the season.

On the whole I thought our business was excellent, considering we were and are hamstrung by FFP constraints there's a finite budget. We've had a net spend of basically zero, our wage bill is probably not too much higher and we've got a much better squad than in the previous year(s).

When you rank them in terms of contribution they roughly rank by way of expense too, which you would expect. I don't think Leigh or Keogh were ever expected to walk in and be POTS material. Camara was the only exception. He's probably the only 1 that didn't justify his wage last season.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 19:12 - Jun 6 with 2436 views

Illinoisblue

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:41 - Jun 6 by the_toff

The “net spend of zero” still doesn’t quite ring true, given we spent over 3million in January alone. I get we don’t pay transfer fees all at once (and likewise don’t receive them all at once either), so exactly how far are we looking back/forwards to get to net zero?

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 19:39 - Jun 6 with 2378 views

Swansea_Blue

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:50 - Jun 6 by homer_123

A post from May? Easy to jump on the bandwagon in May

Luongo will end up being our most influential signing this year by Swansea_Blue 4 Mar 2023 16:22
I'm struggling to think of another signing that was so needed. Not even Leif, as we have Leigh (although with his injury earlier in the season, you could argue Leif was also critically needed. PLus he's been our 2nd best player after chaplin). So, yeah possibly although Davis is another strong shout.

He's doing great today. Takes the pressure of Morsy a lot.

Deserved standing ovation for Luongo by Swansea_Blue 29 Apr 2023 16:39
Do people realise how important he’s been. Hirst and Broady are getting the attention, but Luongo’s partnership with Morsy has turned around our season and let the front men do their thing.

He’s been quietly superb.

Sorry, just yanking your thingy. You’re quite right of course. Without him I think we’d have missed out on the autos.

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 21:37 - Jun 6 with 2259 views

farkenhell

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 19:39 - Jun 6 by Swansea_Blue

A post from May? Easy to jump on the bandwagon in May

Sorry, just yanking your thingy. You’re quite right of course. Without him I think we’d have missed out on the autos.

After one of Luongo's early home games when he came on at half-time (possibly Morecambe?) I remarked in a thread about the difference he made to the solidity of our midfield. Someone replied to say that's easy when you're 3-0 up. Completely missed the point of course. I remember giving a silent thanks for the fact that we have a competent manager picking the team!

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 21:51 - Jun 6 with 2234 views

the_toff

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 19:12 - Jun 6 by Illinoisblue
The “net spend of zero” still doesn’t quite ring true, given we spent over 3million in January alone. I get we don’t pay transfer fees all at once (and likewise don’t receive them all at once either), so exactly how far are we looking back/forwards to get to net zero?

Yes but my point was about 'learning from the Summer transfer window' and the implication that it wasn't a success.

We signed Davis, Harness and Camara for fees thought to be c. £2m combined. We sold Simpson for a rumoured £500k and netted a sizeable sell on from Downes' £12m move to West Ham. So that transfer window was approx. £2m in, £2m out.

[Post edited 6 Jun 2023 21:53]

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 22:11 - Jun 6 with 2196 views

Illinoisblue

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 21:51 - Jun 6 by the_toff
Yes but my point was about 'learning from the Summer transfer window' and the implication that it wasn't a success. We signed Davis, Harness and Camara for fees thought to be c. £2m combined. We sold Simpson for a rumoured £500k and netted a sizeable sell on from Downes' £12m move to West Ham. So that transfer window was approx. £2m in, £2m out. [Post edited 6 Jun 2023 21:53]

I think you and Joe are both right on the transfers; Joe correctly points out that were some big misses - albeit due to injury in many cases - and you are correct in pointing out the signings maybe weren’t duds as portrayed. Show me a club that has a perfect record on transfers… they simply don’t exist.

And good point on Downes; forgotten he’d gone for a sizable fee from Swansea. Another reason why, now we’re in the championship we’ll be getting bigger fees if and when we do sell players.

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 22:12 - Jun 6 with 2186 views

BlueStreak

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:50 - Jun 6 by homer_123

Luongo 10/10 for me. Absolutely superb in almost every game. Downgraded to 9/10 on the scale due to fitness for the first fortnight.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 07:39 - Jun 7 with 2032 views

homer_123

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 19:39 - Jun 6 by Swansea_Blue

A post from May? Easy to jump on the bandwagon in May

Sorry, just yanking your thingy. You’re quite right of course. Without him I think we’d have missed out on the autos.

OUCH!

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RobTheMonk

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:45 - Jun 6 by BigCommon
Beat me to it, re Luongo... His presence and added control in MF, allowed Broadhead and Chaplin to excel , further up the pitch. And also gave more license for Davis and Burns to support... I don't think we would have gotten automatics without Luongo.

Luongo completely revitalised our midfield which was struggling with injury and inexperience. As soon as Morsy and Luongo were a pair, we started dominating games. If he'd been with us from the start of the season and had been fit throughout, he'd have been in the team of the season. You don't get many better players in midfield at League 1 level.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 07:51 - Jun 7 with 2011 views

Herbivore

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:05 - Jun 6 by FrimleyBlue
Basically those who cost a bit were worth it Those on frees or minimal fees weren't. Lesson is. If you want quality. You've got to pay for it.

Not sure it's as simple as that. Ladapo, Luongo, and Leigh were all free and they've all been good signings, albeit Leigh has mainly been needed as back up. Camara cost a decent chunk and hasn't really played, Harness was a decent size fee and has been very hit and miss. We had success with Davis, Broadhead, and Clarke but that shows more that a certain profile of player - well schooled at a Prem academy and some experience of senior football on loan - is likely to be successful for us. Hirst fits that bill as well of course.

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 07:53 - Jun 7 with 1995 views

Metal_Hacker

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 07:51 - Jun 7 by Herbivore

Totally agree - of course it's not as easy at that

Chelsea case in point . Spent how much and how has that worked out ? Those players you mentioned Herbs all free....worked out alright

It's not always black and white

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Have we learned from transfer windows? on 07:59 - Jun 7 with 1977 views

tractorboy1978

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 16:06 - Jun 6 by le2blue

As well as having a recruitment team in place and probably a clearer view of what was needed to upgrade the positions targeted, I also think we were a more attractive proposition in January than last summer. We tried for Hirst and he choose Rovers, Luongo choose a Championship side as did Broadhead...so I'd argue the caliber we were after was harder to convince (Davis being the exception) last summer vs Jan.

KM has also become someone players want to play for now, which will be a key asset for this summer's recruitment, he/we are going places with a clear plan and style which will make the sales process easier.

I agree with your assessments, aside from Davis, I can see us offloading the majority of those players recruited last summer. Time to trade and upgrade.

Great summary. Although I'd add, if we want to be ambitious this summer with our recruitment (as I think we will) then it's not going to be plain sailing to convince players to sign here even with McKenna's enhanced reputation. It is all relative to the level you are playing at. Hopefully we are towards the front of the queue for one or two of the premium loans that go out each summer (see the likes of Archer, Diallo, Doyle, McAtee this year).

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 08:10 - Jun 7 with 1936 views

tractorboy1978

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:10 - Jun 6 by cbower
We paid bigger fees (Broadhead & Clarke), buisiness done early and we didn't chase someone for weeks right up to deadline (Hirst) leading to a panic buy (Ahadme). Make your move, be aggressive with bids and terms, move on if the deal is dragging. Buying injured players carries risks (see Huws) and Camara signing came out of the blue on deadline day and he was never remotely fit.

I think playing the waiting game to get your man and knowing when to move on is a really hard balance to strike. Probably easier in January as most squads are pretty set and it's just a bit of tinkering. There is more upheaval in summer windows and often players don't become available until much later on. I think a lot of clubs like to keep a bit of their powder dry until later in the window.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 08:58 - Jun 7 with 1855 views

Garv

You make it sound like we planned to do all our business in the summer and that we didn't think we would need to do anything in January. I imagine they were always going to go hard in January.

Do you think they planned for Keogh to play many games? Surely not. McKenna would probably tell you he was an important signing anyway.

'Leigh was a very good back up' and never let us down (the opposite) yet only gets 5/10?

You've got a case with Ahadme, Harness and Ball.

Wasn't Luongo a risk in January?

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xrayspecs

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 18:27 - Jun 6 by chicoazul

Ashton neither identifies the targets (recruitment and coaching team) nor prioritises which ones we go after (KM and team). He negotiates the deals and on the face of it has done a good job so far.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 11:03 - Jun 7 with 1736 views

only_one_sir_bobby

An interesting thread and conversation as always Joe. Think it's been said a few times that some of your grades seem very harsh.

Cannot agree with just a satisfactory, or "C grade", 5/10 for Leigh. The only way he was going to play more was an injury to Leif. Whenever he came in, we didn't miss a beat and he played as if he had been a regular starter (see Derby away in partiular). So to almost hold it against him ("ultimately started 3 league games") that Leif was a first name on the teamsheet, seems daft.

Certainly sounds like Keogh offered a huge amount off the pitch. That is something that can't really be rated by fans as we don't see the impact he had. So if you're ranking is solely on what happens on the pitch then fair enough, but in the grand scheme of things, if you asked squad members and staff, pretty sure 3/10 would be bumped up.

Regarding what was different in January, I would throw in a change of luck. You talk about a "terrible hit rate" in the Summer, and how 6 out of 9 started less than 10 games, but 4 of those 6 were injured for large portions of the season/time they were with us. Then you turn to January signings, both Luongo and Broadhead came with injury history, both were slowly introduced (very slowly in Massimo's case), before staying injury free for rest of the season. So our injury luck definitely changed.

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 12:07 - Jun 7 with 1695 views

chicoazul

Have we learned from transfer windows? on 09:17 - Jun 7 by xrayspecs
Ashton neither identifies the targets (recruitment and coaching team) nor prioritises which ones we go after (KM and team). He negotiates the deals and on the face of it has done a good job so far.

But Ashton is ultimately in charge, that’s what being CE means. You have final responsibility.

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