| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... 12:53 - Jun 12 with 5156 views | itfcjoe |
....did the virus start in a wet market, or next to the top secret military operation investigating coronavirus etc by a state who will kill everyone who steps out of line.
Obviously not talking about a deliberate leak here, but some fascinating stuff from Sunday Times Insight team, who are the best in the business
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inside-wuhan-lab-covid-pandemic-china-america
Tweets from one of journo's - George Arbuthnott @arbuthnoo - copy and pasted here
REVEALED: Scientists in Wuhan working alongside the Chinese military combined the world’s most deadly coronaviruses to create a new mutant virus - just before the Covid-19 outbreak.
US investigators with access to top-secret intelligence told Insight they believe Chinese scientists were running a covert project of dangerous experiments, which caused a leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology and started the Covid-19 outbreak.
The Sunday Times has reviewed hundreds of documents, including previously confidential reports, internal memos, scientific papers and email correspondence that has been obtained through sources or by freedom of information campaigners in the three years since the pandemic began
The Wuhan institute was engaged in increasingly risky experiments on coronaviruses it gathered from bat caves in southern China. Initially, it made its findings public and argued the associated risks were justified because the work might help develop vaccines
This changed in 2016 after researchers discovered a new type of coronavirus closely related to Covid-19 in a mineshaft in Mojiang where people had died from coronavirus symptoms
Rather than warning the world, the Chinese authorities did not report the fatalities. The viruses were transported back to the Wuhan institute and a veil was drawn over its research on the mine viruses.
According to the US investigators, the classified programme was to make the mineshaft viruses more infectious to humans.
They believe this led to the creation of the Covid-19 virus, and it leaked out into Wuhan after a laboratory accident
The investigators say the project was kept secret because it was funded by the Chinese military. Evidence shows People's Liberation Army scientists were working alongside the Wuhan institute on experiments with the world’s most deadly coronaviruses in the lead up to the pandemic.
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:05 - Jun 12 with 3499 views | J2BLUE |
Military scientists working on viruses.
I'm sure that will end well. |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:07 - Jun 12 with 3482 views | itfcjoe |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:05 - Jun 12 by J2BLUE |
Military scientists working on viruses.
I'm sure that will end well. |
7 million deaths due to coronavirus, which likely was from this lab | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:12 - Jun 12 with 3450 views | the_toff |
In my simple mind it's generally accepted to have started in Wuhan, that much we know and agree on.
When you consider the nature of the work being conducted in the Wuhan institute of virology (the only one of its kind in China), it's not a huge leap to think it might be related and the result of an accidental leak is it? Feels like quite a coincidence if not. |  | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:19 - Jun 12 with 3401 views | J2BLUE |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:07 - Jun 12 by itfcjoe |
7 million deaths due to coronavirus, which likely was from this lab |
I was more thinking about the next release which might not be accidental. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:37 - Jun 12 with 3312 views | EastAnglianBoy |
Conspiracy theory nonsense from Joe. | | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:41 - Jun 12 with 3279 views | Fixed_It |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:07 - Jun 12 by itfcjoe |
7 million deaths due to coronavirus, which likely was from this lab |
If it wasn't for those pesky Western scientists... |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:49 - Jun 12 with 3242 views | giant_stow |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:37 - Jun 12 by EastAnglianBoy |
Conspiracy theory nonsense from Joe. |
Harsh - I don't think anyone can say for sure either way with any certainty. |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:51 - Jun 12 with 3190 views | J2BLUE |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:49 - Jun 12 by giant_stow |
Harsh - I don't think anyone can say for sure either way with any certainty. |
To be fair, he didn't. Occam's Razor would suggest it was a lab leak. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:55 - Jun 12 with 3171 views | blueasfook |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:12 - Jun 12 by the_toff |
In my simple mind it's generally accepted to have started in Wuhan, that much we know and agree on.
When you consider the nature of the work being conducted in the Wuhan institute of virology (the only one of its kind in China), it's not a huge leap to think it might be related and the result of an accidental leak is it? Feels like quite a coincidence if not. |
I believe it came from the lab. I also believe China knew about it maybe 2 or 3 months previously with the first cases appearing Oct/Nov 2019. They only came clean when they knew it would go global. |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:10 - Jun 12 with 3077 views | homer_123 |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:51 - Jun 12 by J2BLUE |
To be fair, he didn't. Occam's Razor would suggest it was a lab leak. |
If it quacks like a duck... |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:18 - Jun 12 with 3016 views | CaptainAhab |
Looks pretty conclusive from that article.
Most certainly not just conspiracy nonsense, they were up to some pretty nefarious stuff over there, taking the worst viruses they could find and making them more deadly and actively encouraging the leap to human transmission.
Too much coincidence and cover up for it not to have originated from the Wuhan lab.
I can't believe the report hasn't caused more of a stir, it should be huge news and the Chinese government and military (and US investors) should be held to task. I guess most people just want to move on from thinking about Covid now, so they'll most likely get away with it. | | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:21 - Jun 12 with 2993 views | blueasfook |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:18 - Jun 12 by CaptainAhab |
Looks pretty conclusive from that article.
Most certainly not just conspiracy nonsense, they were up to some pretty nefarious stuff over there, taking the worst viruses they could find and making them more deadly and actively encouraging the leap to human transmission.
Too much coincidence and cover up for it not to have originated from the Wuhan lab.
I can't believe the report hasn't caused more of a stir, it should be huge news and the Chinese government and military (and US investors) should be held to task. I guess most people just want to move on from thinking about Covid now, so they'll most likely get away with it. |
Also, what would we collectively do about it? Make them close down their labs - not going to happen. Fine them hugely - they wont pay. Bomb them - guaranteed to start WW3. China have gotten away with it. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:22 - Jun 12 with 2978 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 13:55 - Jun 12 by blueasfook |
I believe it came from the lab. I also believe China knew about it maybe 2 or 3 months previously with the first cases appearing Oct/Nov 2019. They only came clean when they knew it would go global. |
Didn't most normal people come to this conclusion about three years ago? |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:25 - Jun 12 with 2946 views | blueasfook |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:22 - Jun 12 by Lord_Lucan |
Didn't most normal people come to this conclusion about three years ago? |
Yes, I have long believed this. Just stating its what I believe. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:51 - Jun 12 with 2836 views | Guthrum |
Except that it is also plausible that it could have come from animals at the market. Secure labs tend to be quite careful about not letting stuff out. We will probably never know what really happened, unless something is found in Chinese archives a hundred years or so from now, assuming the Communist government no longer exists.
William of Ockham expressed it as a guideline, not a concrete law. |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:52 - Jun 12 with 2822 views | J2BLUE |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:10 - Jun 12 by homer_123 |
If it quacks like a duck... |
Not sure you're allowed to say that anymore. | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:54 - Jun 12 with 2809 views | NthQldITFC |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:10 - Jun 12 by homer_123 |
If it quacks like a duck... |
...it's a bio-engineered bat. |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:17 - Jun 12 with 2729 views | unbelievablue |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:51 - Jun 12 by Guthrum |
Except that it is also plausible that it could have come from animals at the market. Secure labs tend to be quite careful about not letting stuff out. We will probably never know what really happened, unless something is found in Chinese archives a hundred years or so from now, assuming the Communist government no longer exists.
William of Ockham expressed it as a guideline, not a concrete law. |
Occam's razor is oft misunderstood. It's not 'the simplest explanation is the most likely'. It's a guideline which suggests one should search for explanations with fewer variables. That doesn't necessarily work in this instance. |  |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:51 - Jun 12 with 2569 views | Sarge |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:51 - Jun 12 by Guthrum |
Except that it is also plausible that it could have come from animals at the market. Secure labs tend to be quite careful about not letting stuff out. We will probably never know what really happened, unless something is found in Chinese archives a hundred years or so from now, assuming the Communist government no longer exists.
William of Ockham expressed it as a guideline, not a concrete law. |
These are Chinese secure labs though, which means if they’re anything like everything else made there they will be low quality, crappily put together knock offs of something else. It’s also generally a good idea to believe the opposite of whatever China is saying so if it does end up looking like it leaked from a lab it’ll be added to the pile of things that “totally didn’t happen” like the Tiananmen square massacre and the Uyghur genocide. | | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:56 - Jun 12 with 2547 views | PhilTWTD |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:51 - Jun 12 by Guthrum |
Except that it is also plausible that it could have come from animals at the market. Secure labs tend to be quite careful about not letting stuff out. We will probably never know what really happened, unless something is found in Chinese archives a hundred years or so from now, assuming the Communist government no longer exists.
William of Ockham expressed it as a guideline, not a concrete law. |
My hybrid theory is that it came from a pangolin who was working at the labs. |  | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:58 - Jun 12 with 2513 views | homer_123 |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 14:52 - Jun 12 by J2BLUE |
Not sure you're allowed to say that anymore. |
I 'typed' it - is it the same thing? | |
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:59 - Jun 12 with 2508 views | StokieBlue |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:51 - Jun 12 by Sarge |
These are Chinese secure labs though, which means if they’re anything like everything else made there they will be low quality, crappily put together knock offs of something else. It’s also generally a good idea to believe the opposite of whatever China is saying so if it does end up looking like it leaked from a lab it’ll be added to the pile of things that “totally didn’t happen” like the Tiananmen square massacre and the Uyghur genocide. |
They were built by the Chinese using French expertise under contract.
There is a good podcast on the BBC about this, I've only listened to the first episode and they are only 2 into the series but it's a good start. It's called "Fever".
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| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 16:02 - Jun 12 with 2489 views | Sarge |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:56 - Jun 12 by PhilTWTD |
My hybrid theory is that it came from a pangolin who was working at the labs. |
That puts a whole new spin on Linkin Park’s first album. I never interpreted In the End has being a Pangolin’s lament at failing to stop a deadly virus from escaping but now I won’t be able to unhear it. | | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 16:05 - Jun 12 with 2445 views | PhilTWTD |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 16:02 - Jun 12 by Sarge |
That puts a whole new spin on Linkin Park’s first album. I never interpreted In the End has being a Pangolin’s lament at failing to stop a deadly virus from escaping but now I won’t be able to unhear it. |
I don't know whether to apologise or say 'You're welcome'. | | | |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 16:19 - Jun 12 with 2384 views | factual_blue |
| Coronavirus looking more and more like Occam's Razor..... on 15:56 - Jun 12 by PhilTWTD |
My hybrid theory is that it came from a pangolin who was working at the labs. |
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