| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 07:52 - Aug 9 with 5448 views | nrb1985 |
never underestimate;
a) the stupidity of voters - see Brexit
b) the right wing media's ability to gas light low information voters into voting against their own interests - see Brexit
I'm convinced this is going to be a lot closer than people think. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 7:53]
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:12 - Aug 9 with 5373 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Don’t worry, they are currently coming up with new vote winning policies, like withdrawing from the ECHR, which has been suggested this morning. So that will get a few votes from the knuckle draggers.
Cun£s.
Someone upvote me before DaveU arrives. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:12 - Aug 9 with 5371 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 07:52 - Aug 9 by nrb1985 |
never underestimate;
a) the stupidity of voters - see Brexit
b) the right wing media's ability to gas light low information voters into voting against their own interests - see Brexit
I'm convinced this is going to be a lot closer than people think. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 7:53]
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That's my feeling too. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:15 - Aug 9 with 5365 views | GlasgowBlue |
But Starmer is rubbish and isn’t inspiring voters to elect a Labour government. Or something like that. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:25 - Aug 9 with 5335 views | Guthrum |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 07:52 - Aug 9 by nrb1985 |
never underestimate;
a) the stupidity of voters - see Brexit
b) the right wing media's ability to gas light low information voters into voting against their own interests - see Brexit
I'm convinced this is going to be a lot closer than people think. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 7:53]
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It is. But given some of the figures being bandied around, that will still result in a massive landslide, the Tories left with 200 seats rather than being reduced to half that.
As Trump found in 2020 (and depite the help of a strictly binary, highly-polarised system), there is not enough weight in your two categories to win an election. If all moderates and floating voters have been driven away, you're stuffed. Starmer does not have the baggage which allowed Theresa May to crawl close enough to the line in 2017. Nor is there the political impasse which helped Johnson two-and-a-half years later. Added to which are several more years of scandal, unpalatable policies and economic failure. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:29 - Aug 9 with 5320 views | Churchman |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 07:52 - Aug 9 by nrb1985 |
never underestimate;
a) the stupidity of voters - see Brexit
b) the right wing media's ability to gas light low information voters into voting against their own interests - see Brexit
I'm convinced this is going to be a lot closer than people think. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 7:53]
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Great article. I get what you are saying, but I think it’s gone too far for that.
They are totally disconnected from reality. They’re clinging on to bogus ideals and weak, witless, unpleasant people. They are bankrupt in every way.
Worst of all, they’ve made all but the 5% they represent poorer. Our country has had its social fabric ripped away in so many ways. They don’t care. They never did, but at least they once had the good grace to try and hide it.
People are not blind. A few, like a couple of friends of mine, will vote for them (through fear?) but the tories are finished. They will be smashed. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:43 - Aug 9 with 5285 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:29 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
Great article. I get what you are saying, but I think it’s gone too far for that.
They are totally disconnected from reality. They’re clinging on to bogus ideals and weak, witless, unpleasant people. They are bankrupt in every way.
Worst of all, they’ve made all but the 5% they represent poorer. Our country has had its social fabric ripped away in so many ways. They don’t care. They never did, but at least they once had the good grace to try and hide it.
People are not blind. A few, like a couple of friends of mine, will vote for them (through fear?) but the tories are finished. They will be smashed. |
Struggling to see how things will improve after the next election. Granted we will have different set of politicians holding the reins but more often than not when Starmer opens his mouth he gives the impression he will continue with at least 70% of the policies.
It isn’t just about winning the next election it is about where we will be in 10 years time. We need to know how /when things are going to change/get better and how they are going to be paid for.
A significant number just never vote, not being willing to take responsibility for their actions.
I’m looking at this in the same way I did in 60’s we don’t just need to change leaders we need to build a new Britain and that has to be paid for. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:59 - Aug 9 with 5247 views | StokieBlue |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:15 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
But Starmer is rubbish and isn’t inspiring voters to elect a Labour government. Or something like that. |
Sometimes it is more about voting someone out than voting someone in.
SB |  | | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 09:09 - Aug 9 with 5221 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:15 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
But Starmer is rubbish and isn’t inspiring voters to elect a Labour government. Or something like that. |
He isn't, or something like that.
Turn out will be very low. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 09:11 - Aug 9 with 5211 views | BloomBlue |
I genuinely believe the LibDems are going to surprise a lot in the next GE, with having their best ever GE result. When it comes to the day of voting I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the 2 main parties and for a change will go LibDem. I appreciate that runs the danger of a hung parliament, but maybe given everything not a bad thing. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 09:41 - Aug 9 with 5136 views | Guthrum |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:43 - Aug 9 by Pinewoodblue |
Struggling to see how things will improve after the next election. Granted we will have different set of politicians holding the reins but more often than not when Starmer opens his mouth he gives the impression he will continue with at least 70% of the policies.
It isn’t just about winning the next election it is about where we will be in 10 years time. We need to know how /when things are going to change/get better and how they are going to be paid for.
A significant number just never vote, not being willing to take responsibility for their actions.
I’m looking at this in the same way I did in 60’s we don’t just need to change leaders we need to build a new Britain and that has to be paid for. |
Yes. And we have to teach people they can't have nice stuff for free. Endless tax cuts* just starve the country of the resources needed to run and maintain it. Perhaps buy less throwaway cr@p on Amazon and improve the UK instead.
* Or outright avoidance in the case of some businesses. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 09:41 - Aug 9 with 5132 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:43 - Aug 9 by Pinewoodblue |
Struggling to see how things will improve after the next election. Granted we will have different set of politicians holding the reins but more often than not when Starmer opens his mouth he gives the impression he will continue with at least 70% of the policies.
It isn’t just about winning the next election it is about where we will be in 10 years time. We need to know how /when things are going to change/get better and how they are going to be paid for.
A significant number just never vote, not being willing to take responsibility for their actions.
I’m looking at this in the same way I did in 60’s we don’t just need to change leaders we need to build a new Britain and that has to be paid for. |
The thing is that Labour are only promising increased spending (which is the only thing that will get us out of the hole we are in) if there is growth but growth seems a long way of given the NIESR report.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/09/risk-of-uk-recession-at-next-ge
As evidence of the mess we are in, MD in Private Eye reports in the current issue that we have half the number of intensive care beds of the European average, and a quarter of that of Germany.
That explains why we had to effectively shut down the NHS during Covid (exacerbating already long waiting lists), when Germany was able to take in Covid patients from other countries. Indeed, my understanding is that Spain, which suffered from Covid as much as we did, has nothing like the waiting lists we have.
Unless and until we are prepared to pay taxes at European levels, and both parties have ruled that out, it is difficult to see things improving given that someone from the NIESR suggests we appear to be in for low growth and relatively high inflation for some time. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 9:45]
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:09 - Aug 9 with 5060 views | nrb1985 |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:29 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
Great article. I get what you are saying, but I think it’s gone too far for that.
They are totally disconnected from reality. They’re clinging on to bogus ideals and weak, witless, unpleasant people. They are bankrupt in every way.
Worst of all, they’ve made all but the 5% they represent poorer. Our country has had its social fabric ripped away in so many ways. They don’t care. They never did, but at least they once had the good grace to try and hide it.
People are not blind. A few, like a couple of friends of mine, will vote for them (through fear?) but the tories are finished. They will be smashed. |
I look at the amount of YouTube subs GB news has vs. something like the News Agents and I do worry that there's still enough toothless simpletons out there still to be duped.
Albeit your entire post is spot on. Cnts the lot of them. | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:10 - Aug 9 with 5060 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 09:41 - Aug 9 by DJR |
The thing is that Labour are only promising increased spending (which is the only thing that will get us out of the hole we are in) if there is growth but growth seems a long way of given the NIESR report.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/09/risk-of-uk-recession-at-next-ge
As evidence of the mess we are in, MD in Private Eye reports in the current issue that we have half the number of intensive care beds of the European average, and a quarter of that of Germany.
That explains why we had to effectively shut down the NHS during Covid (exacerbating already long waiting lists), when Germany was able to take in Covid patients from other countries. Indeed, my understanding is that Spain, which suffered from Covid as much as we did, has nothing like the waiting lists we have.
Unless and until we are prepared to pay taxes at European levels, and both parties have ruled that out, it is difficult to see things improving given that someone from the NIESR suggests we appear to be in for low growth and relatively high inflation for some time. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 9:45]
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"The German healthcare system uses a mixed model combining public and private elements. It is based on mandatory health insurance, with coverage provided by either statutory health insurance (Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung) or private health insurance (Private Krankenversicherung).
It's a modern health service that isn't treated as the national religion. If anyone suggested such a system in the UK they would be branded a heretic. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:12 - Aug 9 with 5046 views | MattinLondon |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:15 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
But Starmer is rubbish and isn’t inspiring voters to elect a Labour government. Or something like that. |
Depending on people’s political viewpoint, its makes quite interesting reading on how he is perceived. On one hand, he doesn’t appear to be that inspiring - but he doesn’t really have to be.
The mad Brexiters that are currently in power simply come across as deluded and desperate and are doing the oppositions job for them. There’s no need for Labour to rock the boat or to say anything controversial. Their policy of removing private schools tax exemption made the Daily Mail angry and currently, there’s no point rocking the boat and upsetting affluent voters.
But, the flip side to this is that Labour simply appears a bit drab, too Tory Light and lacking any sort of radical ideas to get the country moving. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:14 - Aug 9 with 5044 views | Blueschev |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:15 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
But Starmer is rubbish and isn’t inspiring voters to elect a Labour government. Or something like that. |
I don't think that people find the choice between John Major and John Tyndall particularly inspiring, which increasingly looks like what's on offer at the next election. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:34 - Aug 9 with 4987 views | SomethingBlue |
I'm ever so cautious on this because the current mob will stop at nothing – and I do mean absolutely nothing – to stay in. They are bad people. It would be very, very naive not to understand this. We're in for a total sh7tshow of a 12 months and I just hope people hold their nerve. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 10:35]
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:35 - Aug 9 with 4965 views | aardvaark |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 07:52 - Aug 9 by nrb1985 |
never underestimate;
a) the stupidity of voters - see Brexit
b) the right wing media's ability to gas light low information voters into voting against their own interests - see Brexit
I'm convinced this is going to be a lot closer than people think. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 7:53]
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absolutely...the one negative about democracy is that many of the people are inherently stupid. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:40 - Aug 9 with 4940 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:10 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
"The German healthcare system uses a mixed model combining public and private elements. It is based on mandatory health insurance, with coverage provided by either statutory health insurance (Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung) or private health insurance (Private Krankenversicherung).
It's a modern health service that isn't treated as the national religion. If anyone suggested such a system in the UK they would be branded a heretic. |
I am not as blinkered on this sort of thing as you might think.
For example, if no party is willing to raise taxes, I wouldn't have an objection to those who can afford to paying something towards their NHS care, if that is the only way to raise revenue.
Of course, that's never going to go anywhere for the very reason you mention.
And if we were to go down, say, the Spanish route, with private and public hospitals, at least the private sector would take an equal share of the strain (A&E etc) rather than, as currently in this country, creaming off the easy work. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 10:44]
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:50 - Aug 9 with 4882 views | Ryorry |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:40 - Aug 9 by DJR |
I am not as blinkered on this sort of thing as you might think.
For example, if no party is willing to raise taxes, I wouldn't have an objection to those who can afford to paying something towards their NHS care, if that is the only way to raise revenue.
Of course, that's never going to go anywhere for the very reason you mention.
And if we were to go down, say, the Spanish route, with private and public hospitals, at least the private sector would take an equal share of the strain (A&E etc) rather than, as currently in this country, creaming off the easy work. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 10:44]
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Currently, the NHS are actually farming a lot out to the private sector.
The only two people I know who've had or are lined up for operations recently (one eye, one knee surgery) were both referred by the NHS to a local private hospital for the ops to be carried out. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:51 - Aug 9 with 4875 views | Herbivore |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 08:15 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
But Starmer is rubbish and isn’t inspiring voters to elect a Labour government. Or something like that. |
Both things can be true at the same time. The Tories have been imploding since 2016, with the implosion seemingly gaining momentum year on year. I don't think the current polling and likely outcome of the next GE is down to Starmer providing inspirational leadership and a vision for the future that the masses can get behind, it's down to Labour not being the Tories. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:03 - Aug 9 with 4818 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:50 - Aug 9 by Ryorry |
Currently, the NHS are actually farming a lot out to the private sector.
The only two people I know who've had or are lined up for operations recently (one eye, one knee surgery) were both referred by the NHS to a local private hospital for the ops to be carried out. |
But if the knee operation doesn't last because it isn't done properly, I fear it won't be the private hospital picking up the pieces. | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:06 - Aug 9 with 4812 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:14 - Aug 9 by Blueschev |
I don't think that people find the choice between John Major and John Tyndall particularly inspiring, which increasingly looks like what's on offer at the next election. |
After the sh1tshow we've had over the past few years, a 'John Major' would be very welcome indeed. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:15 - Aug 9 with 4755 views | Blueschev |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:06 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
After the sh1tshow we've had over the past few years, a 'John Major' would be very welcome indeed. |
It's perfect for you Glassers, you get to vote Tory without the shame of voting Tory. | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:17 - Aug 9 with 4750 views | EdwardStone |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:06 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
After the sh1tshow we've had over the past few years, a 'John Major' would be very welcome indeed. |
Major has the veneer of being a decent man, but he blocked any compo for the tainted blood victims and inflicted the complete train-wreck of rail privatisation upon us. His weak vaccillation over Europe set the scene for Brexit and his failure to understand any form of environmental imperative cement his toxic legacy
Just another flint-hearted, idealogical nut -job, albeit with slightly better table manners |  | | |
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