| Farage releases a statement 08:43 - Aug 5 with 9694 views | Mullet |
Blaming the BLM stuff and harking back to it is very interesting, especially as he was one of the main voices shouting “two tier policing”
I wonder why he’s not been firing off tweets rampantly this time? Or giving interviews? Sounds like the shoe is finally about to drop on him hopefully. [Post edited 5 Aug 2024 10:31]
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| Farage releases a statement on 11:44 - Aug 5 with 1980 views | Guthrum |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:07 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
Whether you like Farage or not, don't you think that we should actually address the underlying social, economic, and cultural issues?
It's very frustrating how partisan the country is and it feels like a lot of people are as bad as the politicians in that it's more about scoring points and winning the argument than actually finding solutions.
We like to think that we are highly evolved, but we haven't changed much in hundreds of years. You can look back on history so see how things will play out in future.
Only cracking down on violence doesn't address the underlying problem.
On the macro level, we have a social contract in that we do not resort to violence because our representatives are supposed to listen to our concerns and at least address them. Neither side of that social contract has been upheld.
There is no choice but to punish the people who have physically attacked people.
At the same time we can't just be content that we can lock up the working class people and demonize them in order to sweep the underlying issue under the carpet. The violent people and peaceful protesters are just the tip of the iceberg. Successive governments have been running up the national debt and sowing the seeds for long term problems for short term gain. Even peaceful protesters and politicians who are listening to the grievances are painted as hate preachers and racists bigots.
Starmer was right to hear the concerns of the BLM protesters even though there were riots and looting. There will always be opportunist criminals.
The ideal response from a politician would be something along the lines of "This violence and intimidation is entirely unacceptable and will be punished to the full extent of the law. In our system we use peaceful protest as a means to let our voices be heard. We will listen to your grievances when they are presented in an appropriate manner". |
The problem with that being these riots are essentially undemocratic. Similar to the events of January 6th 2021 in the USA.
The public voted in July to turn away from a government which was prioritising anti-immigration and anti-"woke" rhetoric, towards one promising to concentrate on economic stability. Judging by that and by the relatively small number of rioters (a few dozens to hundreds in each case), these grievances are a distinctly minority viewpoint. Why should they be addressed above those of the wider public, just because they've started smashing stuff up?
The working class are often cited in this argument, but I don't really see what it has to do with things. It's not like all working people in the UK are upset about immigration.
The national debt is irrelevant to most people in the street. Even cuts to public services have more to do with a fear of taxation in an environment where the cost of doing anything has massively inflated over recent decades. Cost of living is the biggest immediate issue, which is more down to external factors (e.g. the loss of cheap Russian gas) and supermarket profits than government debt. |  |
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| Farage releases a statement on 11:44 - Aug 5 with 1983 views | blueasfook |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:19 - Aug 5 by Meadowlark |
The fact that the BBC support him is bad enough, but I didn't expect to see his racist right wing views advertised on here! |
I don't think its "advertising" as you put it. It's putting up his statement for it to be debated and knocked down. Should we pretend such views don't exist? People who post this stuff shouldn't be necessarily labelled as promoting it. Mullers is certainly no Right Wing supporter I don't think. |  |
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| Farage releases a statement on 12:10 - Aug 5 with 1881 views | TractorFrog |
‘Big Chungus sends his throbbing love’ - Nigel Farage |  |
| They'd all laugh at me if they knew what I was trying to do. To create a new strain of super-wine in half-an-hour with a fraction of nature's resources and a FOOL for an assistant. 'Bernard Black, he's mad,' they'd say, 'he's insane, he's dangerous.' Well I'll show them! I'll show them all! | | Poll: | Who should start in CM with Cajuste? |
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| Farage releases a statement on 12:12 - Aug 5 with 1882 views | Mullet |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:44 - Aug 5 by blueasfook |
I don't think its "advertising" as you put it. It's putting up his statement for it to be debated and knocked down. Should we pretend such views don't exist? People who post this stuff shouldn't be necessarily labelled as promoting it. Mullers is certainly no Right Wing supporter I don't think. |
I’m gonna be kind and assume he’s got completely wrong end of the stick here. Appreciate your post though. | |
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| Farage releases a statement on 12:23 - Aug 5 with 1832 views | lowhouseblue |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:44 - Aug 5 by Guthrum |
The problem with that being these riots are essentially undemocratic. Similar to the events of January 6th 2021 in the USA.
The public voted in July to turn away from a government which was prioritising anti-immigration and anti-"woke" rhetoric, towards one promising to concentrate on economic stability. Judging by that and by the relatively small number of rioters (a few dozens to hundreds in each case), these grievances are a distinctly minority viewpoint. Why should they be addressed above those of the wider public, just because they've started smashing stuff up?
The working class are often cited in this argument, but I don't really see what it has to do with things. It's not like all working people in the UK are upset about immigration.
The national debt is irrelevant to most people in the street. Even cuts to public services have more to do with a fear of taxation in an environment where the cost of doing anything has massively inflated over recent decades. Cost of living is the biggest immediate issue, which is more down to external factors (e.g. the loss of cheap Russian gas) and supermarket profits than government debt. |
"The public voted in July to turn away from a government which was prioritising anti-immigration and anti-"woke" rhetoric, towards one promising to concentrate on economic stability. Judging by that and by the relatively small number of rioters (a few dozens to hundreds in each case), these grievances are a distinctly minority viewpoint."
labour ran on a pledge to reduce net immigration. opinion polls at the election showed that 66% of people want less immigration and 43% think that immigration has a negative impact on british society. in the last 3 years total net immigration has totalled 2 million.
rioting isn't articulating any coherent political view - it a bunch of beered up racist low lifes looking for a scrap spurred on by a hand full of far right thugs - and it's an error to try to identify rioters as a meaningful political force. but equally you can't just ignore where a very large portion of the public stand on current levels of immigration or pretend that you can have a net inflow of 2 million people over 3 years without real social pressures emerging. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Farage releases a statement on 12:25 - Aug 5 with 1817 views | eireblue |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:07 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
Whether you like Farage or not, don't you think that we should actually address the underlying social, economic, and cultural issues?
It's very frustrating how partisan the country is and it feels like a lot of people are as bad as the politicians in that it's more about scoring points and winning the argument than actually finding solutions.
We like to think that we are highly evolved, but we haven't changed much in hundreds of years. You can look back on history so see how things will play out in future.
Only cracking down on violence doesn't address the underlying problem.
On the macro level, we have a social contract in that we do not resort to violence because our representatives are supposed to listen to our concerns and at least address them. Neither side of that social contract has been upheld.
There is no choice but to punish the people who have physically attacked people.
At the same time we can't just be content that we can lock up the working class people and demonize them in order to sweep the underlying issue under the carpet. The violent people and peaceful protesters are just the tip of the iceberg. Successive governments have been running up the national debt and sowing the seeds for long term problems for short term gain. Even peaceful protesters and politicians who are listening to the grievances are painted as hate preachers and racists bigots.
Starmer was right to hear the concerns of the BLM protesters even though there were riots and looting. There will always be opportunist criminals.
The ideal response from a politician would be something along the lines of "This violence and intimidation is entirely unacceptable and will be punished to the full extent of the law. In our system we use peaceful protest as a means to let our voices be heard. We will listen to your grievances when they are presented in an appropriate manner". |
Until all the criminals are caught, you won’t know the demographics of the perpetrators.
In the past people have been shocked, SHOCKED! even, to find out there are middle class football hooligans.
When we see brickies and glaziers cleaning up after the rioters, I don’t think it is fair to lay this at the feet of working class people.
I think that is an unfair statement, to somehow equate the riots with working class people.
The majority of working class people that I see are standing up to, and repairing the damage done by, far right thugs. |  | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 12:39 - Aug 5 with 1740 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Farage releases a statement on 12:23 - Aug 5 by lowhouseblue |
"The public voted in July to turn away from a government which was prioritising anti-immigration and anti-"woke" rhetoric, towards one promising to concentrate on economic stability. Judging by that and by the relatively small number of rioters (a few dozens to hundreds in each case), these grievances are a distinctly minority viewpoint."
labour ran on a pledge to reduce net immigration. opinion polls at the election showed that 66% of people want less immigration and 43% think that immigration has a negative impact on british society. in the last 3 years total net immigration has totalled 2 million.
rioting isn't articulating any coherent political view - it a bunch of beered up racist low lifes looking for a scrap spurred on by a hand full of far right thugs - and it's an error to try to identify rioters as a meaningful political force. but equally you can't just ignore where a very large portion of the public stand on current levels of immigration or pretend that you can have a net inflow of 2 million people over 3 years without real social pressures emerging. |
Hard to argue against any of that, as Labour did borrow from the language of the Tories and Reform. Really depressing stuff that they went that route rather than actually tackle the misinformation around immigration, but here we are.
When you consider that the vast majority of immigrants come on work and study visas, it seems to me like that the whole argument is a bit dishonest. Most people arriving we either need or they support one of our major industries (education). In the case of education they're essential in keeping many universities afloat (supporting thousands of jobs). But we all know the UK public are good at cutting off our noses to spite our faces. |  |
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| Farage releases a statement on 12:55 - Aug 5 with 1679 views | Guthrum |
| Farage releases a statement on 12:23 - Aug 5 by lowhouseblue |
"The public voted in July to turn away from a government which was prioritising anti-immigration and anti-"woke" rhetoric, towards one promising to concentrate on economic stability. Judging by that and by the relatively small number of rioters (a few dozens to hundreds in each case), these grievances are a distinctly minority viewpoint."
labour ran on a pledge to reduce net immigration. opinion polls at the election showed that 66% of people want less immigration and 43% think that immigration has a negative impact on british society. in the last 3 years total net immigration has totalled 2 million.
rioting isn't articulating any coherent political view - it a bunch of beered up racist low lifes looking for a scrap spurred on by a hand full of far right thugs - and it's an error to try to identify rioters as a meaningful political force. but equally you can't just ignore where a very large portion of the public stand on current levels of immigration or pretend that you can have a net inflow of 2 million people over 3 years without real social pressures emerging. |
Wide difference in rhetoric, tho. Nobody like then-Deputy Chair of the Conservatives Lee Anderson telling people to 'F**k off back to France'. Labour's flagship policy wasn't an elaborate fantasy scheme to fly asylum seekers to Africa.
The net inflow of people is, in part, because we no longer have agreements with our neighbours about collective handling of migrants. Starting in 2020. Whose fault is that? | |
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| Farage releases a statement on 13:30 - Aug 5 with 1599 views | Europablue |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:13 - Aug 5 by Whos_blue |
Grifting c unit just wants a bigger (and more legitimate) platform to spout his bile.
If parliament isn't recalled and I'm not sure it should, his next move will be to continue his attack on Starmer and also bleat on in faux exasperation that he is being denied his right to free speech. The bloke is just a sh1tstain.
Talking of sh1tstains, Cleverly has weighed in on Starmer today spouting some gibberish about Starmer's holiday. Desperate stuff and a shameful deflection from any responsibility of the last 14 years of tory (mis) rule. |
It's difficult to tell the difference between Labour and the Tories in recent history. Neither party is the solution. There needs to be a legitimate left and right that all but the extremists can find palatable. Even when we don't agree with people who think differently we have to accept the right of people to hold views that are different from ours. Immigration is a topic that needs to be discussed. Immigration demands infrastructure and therefore planning. We absolutely need to debate our approach to immigration. We need to be able to openly discuss issues like how transgender policies can have legal consequences, what is appropriate behaviour in public, and what is suitable for children. We won't discuss whether it is ok to discriminate based on race or whether you can physically attack someone based on their physical attributes or even beliefs.
I don't think that people are so stupid that open debate would not let the best argument win out. There are so many attempts to withhold the truth from us.
I don't think it would be difficult for people to understand that there are bad apples amongst Muslims just as there are amongst all groups. I think the government response to the Muslim grooming gangs, but particularly the collusion of the police forces has eroded a lot of public trust. The Covid era was also very damaging. Added to that social media spreads rumours that sound credible based on historical crimes then peaceful and community-minded Muslims suffer unjustified attacks. |  | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 13:54 - Aug 5 with 1558 views | Europablue |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:22 - Aug 5 by Swansea_Blue |
It's a bit of a leap to suggest that this is a response to growing national debt. These are events that are being stirred up by organised racists and white supremacists. Those have always existed unfortunately, irrespective of the socio-economic issues. I wouldn't give any legitimacy to farage's claim that 'uncontrolled mass migration' is the cause of everyone's problems. There has been plenty of evidence to show this isn't the case.
Not that we shouldn't be striving for a more equal society with opportunities for all, but when people do that they get labelled as 'woke'. |
The national debt is a huge problem it means that we don't have any money left to deal with so many problems and people are really struggling right now, and that is reaching a critical mass. The economy is inherently linked with social unrest. When the economy is doing well, less people are struggling and people don't riot if they have something to lose.
Successive governments have identified immigration as the solution to increasing our GDP to plug the hole for pensions. This makes immigration an economic issue. The problem is that uncontrolled immigration is bad for the economy. It is terrible to allow British kids to think that certain jobs are beneath them and only let the immigrants do them. We shouldn't be importing an underclass to serve us. Desperate immigrants will also accept lower living standards. The important economic metric is not GDP, but median earnings. The housing shortage cannot be solved with this level of immigration.
As much as you may dislike Farage. Don't sweep the immigration issue under the carpet.
We have a reckless policy to immigration. We can only have public services as long as we have enough people paying into them. The goal should be no illegal immigration and only targeted immigration based on the need for skills and to the extent that we have appropriate infrastructure. Cultural differences are a whole other issue, but I find that the better off people are economically the less they have a problem. The working class bear the greatest burden from immigration and the rich claim almost all of the benefits. | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:10 - Aug 5 with 1507 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:22 - Aug 5 by Swansea_Blue |
It's a bit of a leap to suggest that this is a response to growing national debt. These are events that are being stirred up by organised racists and white supremacists. Those have always existed unfortunately, irrespective of the socio-economic issues. I wouldn't give any legitimacy to farage's claim that 'uncontrolled mass migration' is the cause of everyone's problems. There has been plenty of evidence to show this isn't the case.
Not that we shouldn't be striving for a more equal society with opportunities for all, but when people do that they get labelled as 'woke'. |
Don't worry he's been justifying the far right violence all along.
The boards very own Farage.
1930s Germany and he would have been firmly in the Hitler has a point brigade.
Camouflaged behind shallow intellectual rationalisation but the end is the same |  | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:24 - Aug 5 with 1460 views | Europablue |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:30 - Aug 5 by Nthsuffolkblue |
What do you think are the underlying social, economic, and cultural issues and why do you think it is reasonable to have expected the new government to have solved them in a few weeks? How does recalling parliament help the government to solve them?
And why do you think these are what people are rioting about rather than in response to racist fanatics inflaming a response to a tragic incident perpetrated by a very disturbed individual for unknown reason? Or do you know something that isn't in the public domain? |
I laid out my thought about the economic and immigration problems in a previous post, so please refer to that if you want to.
I think baxterbasics made a good point about recalling parliament, so I would only support recalling Parliament if there was a material reason to do so and not just for the sake of posturing. That doesn't necessarily mean that there needs to be new legislation. It could help to have a debate acknowledging that there are two separate issues that have been mixed together my misinformation and misguided actions (misguided meaning directed in the wrong direction, not to excuse any actions that deserve heavy punishment). On the one hand, there is a tragedy that has rightly got a lot of people angry. I don't know the details exactly, but I think the suspect is a legal immigrant. On the level of national interest, it is worse when a criminal is an illegal immigrant because the government had the power for that person not to be in country in the first place. If as I believe, he was a legal immigrant, there may still be some relevant questions, but it's not much different from a citizen committing a horrific act.
On the other hand is historic terrorist attacks that were carried out by extremist Muslims and the gang abuse of young girls mostly, I think, by Pakistani Muslims and the response from the police and successive governments.
There is legitimate anger about these two things. I'm angry about them, I'd imagine that you are and everyone else posting here is angry about them.
Some people jumped to conclusions, there might have even been people maliciously directing that legitimate anger in an illegitimate direction. As a result innocent people were targeted. There is no excuse for not doing proper research, they are responsible for the actions and should be punished by the law.
The new government isn't directly responsible for these social issues, but they are directly responsible for how they respond to them. It is inflammatory to refer to everyone who thinks there is a problem as racist and far-right.
Two things are true at the same time. That horrible tragedy was highjacked and that must have made a horrific situation even worse for the families of the victims.
There is still an underlying issue with equally enforcing the law and prosecuting all groups under the law and general integration. | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:27 - Aug 5 with 1438 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:24 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
I laid out my thought about the economic and immigration problems in a previous post, so please refer to that if you want to.
I think baxterbasics made a good point about recalling parliament, so I would only support recalling Parliament if there was a material reason to do so and not just for the sake of posturing. That doesn't necessarily mean that there needs to be new legislation. It could help to have a debate acknowledging that there are two separate issues that have been mixed together my misinformation and misguided actions (misguided meaning directed in the wrong direction, not to excuse any actions that deserve heavy punishment). On the one hand, there is a tragedy that has rightly got a lot of people angry. I don't know the details exactly, but I think the suspect is a legal immigrant. On the level of national interest, it is worse when a criminal is an illegal immigrant because the government had the power for that person not to be in country in the first place. If as I believe, he was a legal immigrant, there may still be some relevant questions, but it's not much different from a citizen committing a horrific act.
On the other hand is historic terrorist attacks that were carried out by extremist Muslims and the gang abuse of young girls mostly, I think, by Pakistani Muslims and the response from the police and successive governments.
There is legitimate anger about these two things. I'm angry about them, I'd imagine that you are and everyone else posting here is angry about them.
Some people jumped to conclusions, there might have even been people maliciously directing that legitimate anger in an illegitimate direction. As a result innocent people were targeted. There is no excuse for not doing proper research, they are responsible for the actions and should be punished by the law.
The new government isn't directly responsible for these social issues, but they are directly responsible for how they respond to them. It is inflammatory to refer to everyone who thinks there is a problem as racist and far-right.
Two things are true at the same time. That horrible tragedy was highjacked and that must have made a horrific situation even worse for the families of the victims.
There is still an underlying issue with equally enforcing the law and prosecuting all groups under the law and general integration. |
"I don't know the details exactly, but I think the suspect is a legal immigrant. On the level of national interest, it is worse when a criminal is an illegal immigrant because the government had the power for that person not to be in country in the first place. If as I believe, he was a legal immigrant, there may still be some relevant questions, but it's not much different from a citizen committing a horrific act."
That's a very long winded way of saying "no, but I want to blame immigrants anyway!" |  |
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| Farage releases a statement on 14:32 - Aug 5 with 1423 views | Europablue |
| Farage releases a statement on 12:25 - Aug 5 by eireblue |
Until all the criminals are caught, you won’t know the demographics of the perpetrators.
In the past people have been shocked, SHOCKED! even, to find out there are middle class football hooligans.
When we see brickies and glaziers cleaning up after the rioters, I don’t think it is fair to lay this at the feet of working class people.
I think that is an unfair statement, to somehow equate the riots with working class people.
The majority of working class people that I see are standing up to, and repairing the damage done by, far right thugs. |
It's not to tar working class people with the same brush. Actually, the term working class is not even appropriate, because a lot of them will be out of work. I think the vast majority will be people who feel like they have no prospects and don't have a stake in society. You might get a few middle-class larpers in there, but privileged kids usually stick to climate protesting/vandalism/terrorism. | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:41 - Aug 5 with 1383 views | Europablue |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:10 - Aug 5 by reusersfreekicks |
Don't worry he's been justifying the far right violence all along.
The boards very own Farage.
1930s Germany and he would have been firmly in the Hitler has a point brigade.
Camouflaged behind shallow intellectual rationalisation but the end is the same |
I'm afraid you are so desperate to have a hate figure that you will ignore any truth within what I say.
You might have a childish goodies and badies attitude. None of us want political violence from any group. Actually, I won't speak for you. I will just say that I don't want to see political violence from any group.
I just don't think your plan of calling everyone racist and fascist is really working. We have to look at things away from the emotions of the situation and think what might actually improve the situation going forward.
People should form their own opinions about others, listening blindly to idiots on the internet is why these organized attacks have taken place in the first place. | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 15:04 - Aug 5 with 1335 views | Europablue |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:27 - Aug 5 by Nthsuffolkblue |
"I don't know the details exactly, but I think the suspect is a legal immigrant. On the level of national interest, it is worse when a criminal is an illegal immigrant because the government had the power for that person not to be in country in the first place. If as I believe, he was a legal immigrant, there may still be some relevant questions, but it's not much different from a citizen committing a horrific act."
That's a very long winded way of saying "no, but I want to blame immigrants anyway!" |
That's a very long winded way of saying "even though you didn't say it, I want you to blame immigrants anyway to match my own narrative and preconceptions". | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 15:19 - Aug 5 with 1271 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Farage releases a statement on 10:38 - Aug 5 by eireblue |
There was also a parliamentary committee thing that did an investigation and report into this.
As we have seen, and will see, police sometimes make arrests immediately, or take their time. It is an operational decision they make.
No evidence was found of two tier policing. |
EDL supporters were throwing bricks and fence posts at Police Officers, and set a fire at the fire exit of a hotel with children, and many adults, inside. They weren't met with baton charges, or horses running at them, or kettling.
So, compared to eg the policing of the student fees protests, if there is any two tier policing in evidence it is that the police have set a very high bar for violence from EDL supporters to be met with a physically aggressive response. | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 17:19 - Aug 5 with 1170 views | BlueBadger |
| Farage releases a statement on 13:30 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
It's difficult to tell the difference between Labour and the Tories in recent history. Neither party is the solution. There needs to be a legitimate left and right that all but the extremists can find palatable. Even when we don't agree with people who think differently we have to accept the right of people to hold views that are different from ours. Immigration is a topic that needs to be discussed. Immigration demands infrastructure and therefore planning. We absolutely need to debate our approach to immigration. We need to be able to openly discuss issues like how transgender policies can have legal consequences, what is appropriate behaviour in public, and what is suitable for children. We won't discuss whether it is ok to discriminate based on race or whether you can physically attack someone based on their physical attributes or even beliefs.
I don't think that people are so stupid that open debate would not let the best argument win out. There are so many attempts to withhold the truth from us.
I don't think it would be difficult for people to understand that there are bad apples amongst Muslims just as there are amongst all groups. I think the government response to the Muslim grooming gangs, but particularly the collusion of the police forces has eroded a lot of public trust. The Covid era was also very damaging. Added to that social media spreads rumours that sound credible based on historical crimes then peaceful and community-minded Muslims suffer unjustified attacks. |
Imagine calling yourself 'Europa' and then turning out to support Nigel Farage's grifting. |  |
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| Farage releases a statement on 17:27 - Aug 5 with 1134 views | eireblue |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:24 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
I laid out my thought about the economic and immigration problems in a previous post, so please refer to that if you want to.
I think baxterbasics made a good point about recalling parliament, so I would only support recalling Parliament if there was a material reason to do so and not just for the sake of posturing. That doesn't necessarily mean that there needs to be new legislation. It could help to have a debate acknowledging that there are two separate issues that have been mixed together my misinformation and misguided actions (misguided meaning directed in the wrong direction, not to excuse any actions that deserve heavy punishment). On the one hand, there is a tragedy that has rightly got a lot of people angry. I don't know the details exactly, but I think the suspect is a legal immigrant. On the level of national interest, it is worse when a criminal is an illegal immigrant because the government had the power for that person not to be in country in the first place. If as I believe, he was a legal immigrant, there may still be some relevant questions, but it's not much different from a citizen committing a horrific act.
On the other hand is historic terrorist attacks that were carried out by extremist Muslims and the gang abuse of young girls mostly, I think, by Pakistani Muslims and the response from the police and successive governments.
There is legitimate anger about these two things. I'm angry about them, I'd imagine that you are and everyone else posting here is angry about them.
Some people jumped to conclusions, there might have even been people maliciously directing that legitimate anger in an illegitimate direction. As a result innocent people were targeted. There is no excuse for not doing proper research, they are responsible for the actions and should be punished by the law.
The new government isn't directly responsible for these social issues, but they are directly responsible for how they respond to them. It is inflammatory to refer to everyone who thinks there is a problem as racist and far-right.
Two things are true at the same time. That horrible tragedy was highjacked and that must have made a horrific situation even worse for the families of the victims.
There is still an underlying issue with equally enforcing the law and prosecuting all groups under the law and general integration. |
“.. I don't know the details exactly, but I think the suspect is a legal immigrant…”
I can see the problem you have been writing so much stuff on this topic you haven’t had time to check.
If you are referring to the tragedy in Southport, it was a U.K. citizen born in Cardiff that was arrested. Hope that helps. | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 17:32 - Aug 5 with 1114 views | BlueBadger |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:07 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
Whether you like Farage or not, don't you think that we should actually address the underlying social, economic, and cultural issues?
It's very frustrating how partisan the country is and it feels like a lot of people are as bad as the politicians in that it's more about scoring points and winning the argument than actually finding solutions.
We like to think that we are highly evolved, but we haven't changed much in hundreds of years. You can look back on history so see how things will play out in future.
Only cracking down on violence doesn't address the underlying problem.
On the macro level, we have a social contract in that we do not resort to violence because our representatives are supposed to listen to our concerns and at least address them. Neither side of that social contract has been upheld.
There is no choice but to punish the people who have physically attacked people.
At the same time we can't just be content that we can lock up the working class people and demonize them in order to sweep the underlying issue under the carpet. The violent people and peaceful protesters are just the tip of the iceberg. Successive governments have been running up the national debt and sowing the seeds for long term problems for short term gain. Even peaceful protesters and politicians who are listening to the grievances are painted as hate preachers and racists bigots.
Starmer was right to hear the concerns of the BLM protesters even though there were riots and looting. There will always be opportunist criminals.
The ideal response from a politician would be something along the lines of "This violence and intimidation is entirely unacceptable and will be punished to the full extent of the law. In our system we use peaceful protest as a means to let our voices be heard. We will listen to your grievances when they are presented in an appropriate manner". |
I don't think we should be listening to the V Real Concerns of nazis mate. [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 15:13]
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| Farage releases a statement on 17:40 - Aug 5 with 1093 views | eireblue |
| Farage releases a statement on 14:32 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
It's not to tar working class people with the same brush. Actually, the term working class is not even appropriate, because a lot of them will be out of work. I think the vast majority will be people who feel like they have no prospects and don't have a stake in society. You might get a few middle-class larpers in there, but privileged kids usually stick to climate protesting/vandalism/terrorism. |
Well I am glad you will stop using the term working class in relation to this.
But I fear, you are in danger of doing the same thing again, lots of un-employed people will not have rioted, also we can see that many of the people arrested and charged are employed.
So I really don’t think you can use terms like “lots” without adequate data.
No, I think the one thing we can say, with a degree of accuracy, is a group of people throwing things and being violent to Muslims, whilst chanting racist things, really can be accurately described as far- right thugs.
It is accurate and fits with the known data, and videos, and is the most specific thing we know about these people, from the available evidence.
Also, I am minded to say, over the last ohhhh, let’s say 14 years there have been plenty of people that feel like they don’t have a stake in society.
But there haven’t been regular riots on this scale, whereby people in such a state have decide to attack a specific part of U.K. society.
No it really does seem that these have been sparked off by far right wing thugs, using wrong data, to encourage other far right wing thugs to do thuggish things.
Honestly, it does seem the term that fits most accurately. | | | |
| Farage releases a statement on 18:26 - Aug 5 with 1029 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Farage releases a statement on 11:07 - Aug 5 by Europablue |
Whether you like Farage or not, don't you think that we should actually address the underlying social, economic, and cultural issues?
It's very frustrating how partisan the country is and it feels like a lot of people are as bad as the politicians in that it's more about scoring points and winning the argument than actually finding solutions.
We like to think that we are highly evolved, but we haven't changed much in hundreds of years. You can look back on history so see how things will play out in future.
Only cracking down on violence doesn't address the underlying problem.
On the macro level, we have a social contract in that we do not resort to violence because our representatives are supposed to listen to our concerns and at least address them. Neither side of that social contract has been upheld.
There is no choice but to punish the people who have physically attacked people.
At the same time we can't just be content that we can lock up the working class people and demonize them in order to sweep the underlying issue under the carpet. The violent people and peaceful protesters are just the tip of the iceberg. Successive governments have been running up the national debt and sowing the seeds for long term problems for short term gain. Even peaceful protesters and politicians who are listening to the grievances are painted as hate preachers and racists bigots.
Starmer was right to hear the concerns of the BLM protesters even though there were riots and looting. There will always be opportunist criminals.
The ideal response from a politician would be something along the lines of "This violence and intimidation is entirely unacceptable and will be punished to the full extent of the law. In our system we use peaceful protest as a means to let our voices be heard. We will listen to your grievances when they are presented in an appropriate manner". |
"This violence and intimidation is entirely unacceptable and will be punished to the full extent of the law. In our system we use peaceful protest as a means to let our voices be heard. We will listen to your grievances when they are presented in an appropriate manner"
I'm sorry, but it's like your post is oblivious to how the country has been run and the policies the conservatives introduced during their period of governance.
Politicians have spent over a decade listening and pursuing right-wing immigration policies. It's led to us pursuing policies like leaving the EU and all the instability that came from it.
It's time to stop listening to the right-wing and start pursuing evidence-based immigration policies and communication.
What we are seeing now is not based on immigration, it is based on racism. No one who has genuine concerns around immigration needs to be attacking people and setting fire to buildings. |  |
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| Farage releases a statement on 18:34 - Aug 5 with 977 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Farage releases a statement on 17:27 - Aug 5 by eireblue |
“.. I don't know the details exactly, but I think the suspect is a legal immigrant…”
I can see the problem you have been writing so much stuff on this topic you haven’t had time to check.
If you are referring to the tragedy in Southport, it was a U.K. citizen born in Cardiff that was arrested. Hope that helps. |
He could have a point though about 2nd generation immigrants. We have conclusive proof that they can have neither the overall country's interests at heart nor those of the population. We've seen that from Sue Ellen Braverman, Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Jimmy Dimly, Sajiid Javid (one of the least worse in fairness), Rishi Sunak, Zia Yusuf (Reform Chair) and, surprisingly, Dominic Raab. I hadn't realised or had forgotten the Raabster was a second generation immigrant (father was a Czech jew who was given sanctuary here in WWII).
But yes, spot on. If people spent as much time checking information as they did reading it and taking it at face value, we'd be in a much better place. | |
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| Farage releases a statement on 18:49 - Aug 5 with 920 views | lowhouseblue |
| Farage releases a statement on 12:55 - Aug 5 by Guthrum |
Wide difference in rhetoric, tho. Nobody like then-Deputy Chair of the Conservatives Lee Anderson telling people to 'F**k off back to France'. Labour's flagship policy wasn't an elaborate fantasy scheme to fly asylum seekers to Africa.
The net inflow of people is, in part, because we no longer have agreements with our neighbours about collective handling of migrants. Starting in 2020. Whose fault is that? |
the "agreements with our neighbours about collective handling of migrants" related to a small proportion of total net migration in recent years. the boats and asylum seekers and unstructured immigration is high profile and gets everyone's attention but it's a small percent of the recent 2 million. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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