What changed? 14:41 - Oct 9 with 3914 views | quad | I've given it some time to reflect on the West Ham game and it has left me feeling even more disappointed than I was at the time of the game. I can't understand for the life of me how we can go from playing so well against Villa to so poorly against West Ham in such a short space of time. IMO we were superb against Villa (Greaves mistake aside) and deserved to win overall, just about. A lot of criticism on here about the defence, especially Muric and Johnson, but personally I was more disappointed with our attack. Delap obviously had a good game and did little wrong but was feeding off scraps. Hutchinson played a bit better in the last couple of games than he did the previous two. I will get pelters for saying this but he is incredibly frustrating, obviously a brilliant talent, but very lightweight and constantly giving away possession which just invites pressure back on us all the time. Maybe Szmodics should be given a go at 10 and Hutch played on the right, because at the moment it's just not working. Clarke was sublime against Villa IMO but completely ineffective against West Ham, Burns tried hard but was playing far too deep to have any attacking threat (and on a couple of occasions when he got further forward and beat his man he messed it up with a poor final pass or cross). I don't know what the answer is but prior to this game I was feeling really optimistic about our chances of staying up. But if going by that display we are the worst team in the premier league. Even Southampton will take encouragement from a better performance away at Arsenal. Sorry to be so negative but that performance has got me really worried. Looking again at the highlights on MOTD, West Ham could have scored 10. We really need to put in a really strong winning performance against Everton to bring the confidence back and kick on from then. |  | | |  |
What changed? on 14:46 - Oct 9 with 3528 views | homer_123 | Honestly, I think we end up over analysing. I said at the time and I think it's still right now. It was simply a bad day at the office. Under KM there have been few and far between but they happen, and to the very best as well. For me, that's it. The performance and/ or results doesn't warrant a panic or wholesale changes - there is nothing to suggest this is a trend in any way whatsoever. There are things that can be learnt from it and I am confident KM will but it's just one of those games. And in the Prem, you don't get away with them. [Post edited 9 Oct 2024 15:05]
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What changed? on 14:48 - Oct 9 with 3510 views | itfcsuth | No huge over analysis needed. We made too many mistakes, were punished accordingly, and looked well short of our brave and aggressive self in attack. Was a bad day at the office. It isn't the first time we have suffered this season, and won't be the last. At this level, making mistakes makes it very easy for the opposition. |  | |  |
What changed? on 14:49 - Oct 9 with 3506 views | Superblue95 | I’d be more concerned if we’d played well and gotten battered as that would show us to be out of our depth. Every team has off days and prior performances have showed that we are a better side than we demonstrated against West Ham. Getting battered at Leeds last season didn’t throw us off our stride much |  |
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What changed? on 14:51 - Oct 9 with 3488 views | Rozz | It's going to be a very long season if we base our entire outlook for survival on the last 90 minutes of football each week. We are playing teams with experience and resources many times our own. When we have bad days, they are likely to be really bad. I'm holding until after Leicester to make any kind of assessment. 3 good opportunities coming up which we should relish and try to enjoy as fans. |  | |  |
What changed? on 14:52 - Oct 9 with 3483 views | SomethingBlue | Think people are making a little too much of the West Ham game. We'll probably have one like that every month even if we stay up. It's the reality. We cannot be as metronomically brilliant performance-wise as we were in L1 and the Champ against these teams, not yet anyway. And every team can blow you away if you're just 10% off. I noticed quite a lot of fans going to West Ham and saying they expected a win and found it baffling to be honest, it just sets unrealistic expectations and sets the players & staff up for a fall and excessive scrutiny when they do not deserve it. My default in this league is to expect defeat in every single away game and every time we get a point I'll be happy. We'll take our fair share over the piece, we've already proved we can, and if we wring our hands over every disappointment this is going to be an agonisingly long season as there will be plenty more. |  |
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What changed? on 15:07 - Oct 9 with 3403 views | FrimleyBlue | Having seen more of the game, I actually think that as a squad we got a bit to excited like some fans and thought we'd taken that step forward against Villa and we could take the game to West ham without due diligence. I think collectively we are clearly still in the gelling stage, to many players going to head the same ball, players running into each others spaces, and there's a lack of fluency about our attacking efforts. Lets not forget however for most of that first half we were a match for West Ham, we were competitive, but slowly mistakes came in again, not just Muric, but key players, Morsy calling for balls that he wasn' going to keep, hutch not being able to get hold of the ball and get going, Greave out of position alot, not tucking in enabling O'shea to look after his man and Johnson his etc. Davis went forward, but left us exposed as West Ham went direct, he needed to calmly stay big a bit and keep us compact. But despite the mistakes, we were competitive in the fixture, as mentioned recently KM will take time to look at this and decide what is causing it. You don't just make mistakes, your mind has to be in a certain condition for it to be happening. Lets take Greaves first, he seemed better with Wolfy next to him, but was it wolfy or was it when Szmodics was covering Davis so Greaves could remain tucked in and not get drawn away from his position. Davis, for all his efforts going forwards, we in the prem imo can't be relying on our left back to assist our goals and be the highest in the team for chance creations, of course it's a massive help, but that can only work if you've absolutely got the covering LB position sorted for when he does go forward and in Clarke, Phillips.. we haven't quite sorted that. I think we were complacement with our principals on Saturday, we weren't difficult to get behind, we weren't that organised and it never felt comfortable when West Ham came at us, I've not had one game this season where i've felt the awkwardness of watching us trying to defend as a team, our press was off, our midfield were showing it's age and lack of fitness and our defenders were all over the show. Yet somehow between the mistakes, we still gave Westham a game and had our own chances. I saw earlier we've had 7 games compared to 14 to this time last season, different squad of course. But in just 7 games, we've had 2 different cb pairings, a change in keeper, a change in rb, a change in lw, 4 different CM pairings. I've felt we've had various versions of the KM 4 2 3 1, from a 4 2 3 1, to a 3 4 2 , we've had close passing, to direct passing. We've had control of halves, to no control, high press with a 3 to a high pressing 2, we've had 2 deep CMs, then split CM's in 2nd halves. Lots of football stuff going on in just 7 games. Yet despite all the changes, the role changes, the split formations on and off the ball, we've been competitive. It is a shame there's not much time in the prem as we need it, these international breaks really don't help. But I said earlier in games that we won't see the best of this side until christmas maybe after, I hope it's not to late by then, but It can't really happen sooner as we just aren't there yet as a squad. So to answer your question with this very long essay, nothing changed, we're just learning and we may need defeats like saturday to get us moving forwards. [Post edited 9 Oct 2024 15:09]
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What changed? on 15:08 - Oct 9 with 3395 views | Europablue | "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same" Yours is the 17th position in the league and everything that goes with it, And—which is more—you’ll be playing Man Utd and City next season! |  | |  |
What changed? on 15:11 - Oct 9 with 3358 views | smithy69 | Easy to analysis It’s football :) and things happen We go again |  | |  | Login to get fewer ads
What changed? on 15:12 - Oct 9 with 3351 views | usm | We started badly and conceded goals at bad times, which I think knocked us back. We were also perhaps a bit too open and maybe under estimated West Ham. That will happen but I dont think there is any need to change anything particularly, but plenty to learn from. |  |
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What changed? on 15:15 - Oct 9 with 3331 views | hoppy |
What changed? on 14:46 - Oct 9 by homer_123 | Honestly, I think we end up over analysing. I said at the time and I think it's still right now. It was simply a bad day at the office. Under KM there have been few and far between but they happen, and to the very best as well. For me, that's it. The performance and/ or results doesn't warrant a panic or wholesale changes - there is nothing to suggest this is a trend in any way whatsoever. There are things that can be learnt from it and I am confident KM will but it's just one of those games. And in the Prem, you don't get away with them. [Post edited 9 Oct 2024 15:05]
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"Honestly, I think we end up over analysing." Why do you think that is? |  |
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What changed? on 15:15 - Oct 9 with 3332 views | Europablue | What happened after Leeds away and West Brom away and even Cardiff away last season? We just weren't good enough in those games. Just write that result off. We can analyze, but don't dwell on it. West Ham is a horrible place to go with awful fans. No wonder Phillips doesn't like it there! Let's come back after the break in the form we had at home against Villa. |  | |  |
What changed? on 15:15 - Oct 9 with 3327 views | textbackup | We made mistakes at the back, and our attack look a little naive and confused at times. How we long for an experienced head up there to help the younger lads a bit. |  |
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What changed? on 15:19 - Oct 9 with 3295 views | homer_123 |
What changed? on 15:15 - Oct 9 by hoppy | "Honestly, I think we end up over analysing." Why do you think that is? |
Let me mull it over. |  |
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What changed? on 15:20 - Oct 9 with 3286 views | Europablue |
What changed? on 15:12 - Oct 9 by usm | We started badly and conceded goals at bad times, which I think knocked us back. We were also perhaps a bit too open and maybe under estimated West Ham. That will happen but I dont think there is any need to change anything particularly, but plenty to learn from. |
We almost could have conceded goals at worse times. The West Ham match and the Man City match, we made it easy for them rather than making the opposition beat us by being better. |  | |  |
What changed? on 15:28 - Oct 9 with 3213 views | Ftnfwest |
What changed? on 15:12 - Oct 9 by usm | We started badly and conceded goals at bad times, which I think knocked us back. We were also perhaps a bit too open and maybe under estimated West Ham. That will happen but I dont think there is any need to change anything particularly, but plenty to learn from. |
We did but by 35 mins were probably the better team given that we were the away side. Then contrived to put pressure on ourselves via playing out too much and got picked off then and in the second half. We actually had a fairly high possession percentage for us (45%?) particularly 2nd half but west ham were able to sit back and wait for errors. |  | |  |
What changed? on 15:30 - Oct 9 with 3203 views | Illinoisblue | Omari needs a rest and I’m certain he’ll have more impact as sub. Right now, very little is working for him. |  |
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What changed? on 15:36 - Oct 9 with 3164 views | textbackup |
What changed? on 15:30 - Oct 9 by Illinoisblue | Omari needs a rest and I’m certain he’ll have more impact as sub. Right now, very little is working for him. |
The stats will more than likely prove me wrong, but he’s trying these dribbles and losing it so often, then once that’s happened he’ll turn back inside and play it safe. Looks a bit out of ideas as a starter to me. |  |
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What changed? on 15:44 - Oct 9 with 3097 views | FrimleyBlue |
What changed? on 15:36 - Oct 9 by textbackup | The stats will more than likely prove me wrong, but he’s trying these dribbles and losing it so often, then once that’s happened he’ll turn back inside and play it safe. Looks a bit out of ideas as a starter to me. |
Text, i've asked this before but havent had an answer In all of prem football, which clubs play with a hutch type player in a middle role. As far as I can work out anyone with his abilities with the ball are out wide players. |  |
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What changed? on 15:51 - Oct 9 with 3046 views | E_I_E_I_E_I_O | These negative posts imo serve no purpose. We are in the most talented league in the world where even mid table teams like West Ham have world class players and Brazil etc internationals. No need to over think it. These results happen and will happen again. The margins are fine with the finishing quality of the opposition and therefore sometimes a even game will result in a loss of a few goals and vice versa. |  | |  |
What changed? on 16:55 - Oct 9 with 2880 views | textbackup |
What changed? on 15:51 - Oct 9 by E_I_E_I_E_I_O | These negative posts imo serve no purpose. We are in the most talented league in the world where even mid table teams like West Ham have world class players and Brazil etc internationals. No need to over think it. These results happen and will happen again. The margins are fine with the finishing quality of the opposition and therefore sometimes a even game will result in a loss of a few goals and vice versa. |
Football fans discuss football, madness |  |
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What changed? on 19:51 - Oct 9 with 2513 views | badadski | Villa allowed us to play and took it for granted expecting that slowing down the game and trying to retain possession would work but actually played into our hands. West Ham pressed us and were far more aggressive giving us little time and winning the majority of their duals. We thought we could play man for man against them and couldn’t so we lost. |  | |  |
What changed? on 21:53 - Oct 9 with 2173 views | E_I_E_I_E_I_O |
What changed? on 16:55 - Oct 9 by textbackup | Football fans discuss football, madness |
Indeed and that what a forum is for. Personally I just think given the ride we have been on and after 7 games and having started relatively well there is no need for negativity to a one off match. That's just how I see it. |  | |  |
What changed? on 08:05 - Oct 10 with 1704 views | FromReuserWithLove |
What changed? on 15:15 - Oct 9 by textbackup | We made mistakes at the back, and our attack look a little naive and confused at times. How we long for an experienced head up there to help the younger lads a bit. |
Mistakes at the back Confused in attack We're gonna win the fookun league |  | |  |
What changed? on 08:20 - Oct 10 with 1669 views | GlasgowBlue | We didn’t play particularly well and made several individual errors against an established Premier League team who regularly finish in the top half and won the UEFA Conference League just over a year ago. That’s about the long and the short of it. |  |
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What changed? on 10:46 - Oct 10 with 1481 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
What changed? on 15:07 - Oct 9 by FrimleyBlue | Having seen more of the game, I actually think that as a squad we got a bit to excited like some fans and thought we'd taken that step forward against Villa and we could take the game to West ham without due diligence. I think collectively we are clearly still in the gelling stage, to many players going to head the same ball, players running into each others spaces, and there's a lack of fluency about our attacking efforts. Lets not forget however for most of that first half we were a match for West Ham, we were competitive, but slowly mistakes came in again, not just Muric, but key players, Morsy calling for balls that he wasn' going to keep, hutch not being able to get hold of the ball and get going, Greave out of position alot, not tucking in enabling O'shea to look after his man and Johnson his etc. Davis went forward, but left us exposed as West Ham went direct, he needed to calmly stay big a bit and keep us compact. But despite the mistakes, we were competitive in the fixture, as mentioned recently KM will take time to look at this and decide what is causing it. You don't just make mistakes, your mind has to be in a certain condition for it to be happening. Lets take Greaves first, he seemed better with Wolfy next to him, but was it wolfy or was it when Szmodics was covering Davis so Greaves could remain tucked in and not get drawn away from his position. Davis, for all his efforts going forwards, we in the prem imo can't be relying on our left back to assist our goals and be the highest in the team for chance creations, of course it's a massive help, but that can only work if you've absolutely got the covering LB position sorted for when he does go forward and in Clarke, Phillips.. we haven't quite sorted that. I think we were complacement with our principals on Saturday, we weren't difficult to get behind, we weren't that organised and it never felt comfortable when West Ham came at us, I've not had one game this season where i've felt the awkwardness of watching us trying to defend as a team, our press was off, our midfield were showing it's age and lack of fitness and our defenders were all over the show. Yet somehow between the mistakes, we still gave Westham a game and had our own chances. I saw earlier we've had 7 games compared to 14 to this time last season, different squad of course. But in just 7 games, we've had 2 different cb pairings, a change in keeper, a change in rb, a change in lw, 4 different CM pairings. I've felt we've had various versions of the KM 4 2 3 1, from a 4 2 3 1, to a 3 4 2 , we've had close passing, to direct passing. We've had control of halves, to no control, high press with a 3 to a high pressing 2, we've had 2 deep CMs, then split CM's in 2nd halves. Lots of football stuff going on in just 7 games. Yet despite all the changes, the role changes, the split formations on and off the ball, we've been competitive. It is a shame there's not much time in the prem as we need it, these international breaks really don't help. But I said earlier in games that we won't see the best of this side until christmas maybe after, I hope it's not to late by then, but It can't really happen sooner as we just aren't there yet as a squad. So to answer your question with this very long essay, nothing changed, we're just learning and we may need defeats like saturday to get us moving forwards. [Post edited 9 Oct 2024 15:09]
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"I actually think that as a squad we got a bit to excited like some fans and thought we'd taken that step forward against Villa and we could take the game to West ham without due diligence" You don't actually believe that do you ? A Mckenna team not doing their due diligence. We just made too many sloppy mistakes at the back and up front. Which were punished by a very good team. |  |
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