| Trump....all you need to know. 06:58 - Jan 21 with 23653 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Trump also signed an executive order temporarily delaying the enforcement of a federal ban on TikTok for at least 75 days. “I guess I have a warm spot for TikTok that I didn’t have originally,” Trump said at the White House. |  |
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 07:43 - Jan 22 with 1667 views | iamatractorboy |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 07:17 - Jan 22 by Benters |
This. |
The point the OP was making, in case it needs explaining, is Trump was implying he may have been...compensated...for allowing Tiktok to run in the US. Can't believe I'm having to explain that. |  | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 07:49 - Jan 22 with 1633 views | Benters |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 07:43 - Jan 22 by iamatractorboy |
The point the OP was making, in case it needs explaining, is Trump was implying he may have been...compensated...for allowing Tiktok to run in the US. Can't believe I'm having to explain that. |
Don’t then. |  |
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 07:51 - Jan 22 with 1618 views | iamatractorboy |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 07:49 - Jan 22 by Benters |
Don’t then. |
Useful input. Thanks. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 09:35 - Jan 22 with 1533 views | lowhouseblue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 00:13 - Jan 22 by Swansea_Blue |
That’s an impressive attempt to twist things.
Some things are absolutes. Like it is not ok to treat people badly because they are different (as reminded by Mariann Budde), climate change is real, vaccines work, it’s a decent thing to do to improve access to affordable healthcare, especially for people you have power over, Nazi salutes aren’t acceptable, people who storm a seat of Parliament and are involved in the killing of innocents should face justice.
Sometimes there is no room for any grey areas. Trump and his enablers and supporters obfuscate those absolutes. |
you do realise that you've said "Some things are absolutes." and then included in your list things that are highly subjective, relative and subject to judgement: "Like it is not ok to treat people badly because they are different (as reminded by Mariann Budde), climate change is real, vaccines work, it’s a decent thing to do to improve access to affordable healthcare, especially for people you have power over."
you do realise that "ok", "badly", "because", "different", "decent", "improve", "affordable" etc are all context dependent and different people can interpret them in different ways in different circumstances. each involves legitimate debate and interpretation. but you are claiming absolute answers in areas of contested political debate, and you are responding to political controversy with assertions of moral certainty. in doing so you are dismissing the legitimacy of other views. you should think about why you do that, and how it contributes to exaggerating political division and how approaching politics as an exchange of moral certainties makes politics toxic. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 09:47 - Jan 22 with 1507 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 09:35 - Jan 22 by lowhouseblue |
you do realise that you've said "Some things are absolutes." and then included in your list things that are highly subjective, relative and subject to judgement: "Like it is not ok to treat people badly because they are different (as reminded by Mariann Budde), climate change is real, vaccines work, it’s a decent thing to do to improve access to affordable healthcare, especially for people you have power over."
you do realise that "ok", "badly", "because", "different", "decent", "improve", "affordable" etc are all context dependent and different people can interpret them in different ways in different circumstances. each involves legitimate debate and interpretation. but you are claiming absolute answers in areas of contested political debate, and you are responding to political controversy with assertions of moral certainty. in doing so you are dismissing the legitimacy of other views. you should think about why you do that, and how it contributes to exaggerating political division and how approaching politics as an exchange of moral certainties makes politics toxic. |
Some things are absolutes or near to them. As much as you might wish to equivocate. Treating people equally is one of them. Climate change being real us another.
What on earth makes you think that these supposedly disenfranchised people are not being lidtened to? Large swathes of the press and media, many senior politicians, talk abput little else. Its a myth and an excuse.
Are you seriously saying that vaccines working is a matter of opinion? Or that treating people badly for being different is a matter of judgment???!!! And then objecting to people opposing clearly wrong or fascistic rhetoric? [Post edited 22 Jan 9:50]
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:07 - Jan 22 with 1440 views | Europablue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 16:59 - Jan 21 by ElderGrizzly |
The real concern is we are likely to see two Dem appointed Supreme Court justices retire/die in this next 4 years and then it's all up for grabs.
A 7 - 2 Trump/GOP picked Supreme court? All manner of things could be changed.
Who says 2-term Presidents will stay? |
I don't think you understand the role of the supreme court judges. They are independent and they don't do what the person who appointed them wants them to. The person who appoints them just chooses the qualified judge who has a similar philosophy to the constitution. They broadly fall into judges who follow the constitution and those who like to interpret what the constitution means.
Changing the 2 term limit would be so incredibly divisive that it would certainly spark armed conflict. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:12 - Jan 22 with 1433 views | lowhouseblue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 09:47 - Jan 22 by redrickstuhaart |
Some things are absolutes or near to them. As much as you might wish to equivocate. Treating people equally is one of them. Climate change being real us another.
What on earth makes you think that these supposedly disenfranchised people are not being lidtened to? Large swathes of the press and media, many senior politicians, talk abput little else. Its a myth and an excuse.
Are you seriously saying that vaccines working is a matter of opinion? Or that treating people badly for being different is a matter of judgment???!!! And then objecting to people opposing clearly wrong or fascistic rhetoric? [Post edited 22 Jan 9:50]
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"Or that treating people badly for being different is a matter of judgment???!!!"
absolutely it's a matter of judgement (though i think dealing with such broad and sweeping generalisations is pretty pointless other than as a form or moral grandstanding). to think that people shouldn't be treated differently for being different is just a very strange and unsustainable pseudo moral assertion. what does 'badly' even mean? people constantly receive different outcomes because they are different - having different abilities, different attitudes and ambitions, different opportunities, etc etc. how differently people should be treated, and according to which differences, is a matter for political debate. some forms of different treatment we decide to outlaw (different treatment on the basis of sex, race or sexuality) others we seek to limit (different outcomes because of inheritance) - but there is no absolute prohibition on 'treating people badly for being different' - how we interpret it and apply it is all about judgement.
for example, trump has said that the us federal state will now be 'colour blind and treat people on the basis of merit'. that's a practical version of your vague and wooly moral assertion - but one i guess many people now disagree with. again it all comes down to politics and debate not the assertion of some abstract absolute.
I do think that social media has promoted the assertion of moral absolutes in the place of political debate to the extent that people now often really struggle to separate the two. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:14 - Jan 22 with 1403 views | DJR |
On the World Service it was stated that Trump's executive order concerning diversity would involve cancelling programmes aimed at helping to get the disabled into work.
I wonder if those on this thread who have been defending Trump think this is a good thing.
I also read a quote from Trump saying that these measures were designed to favour white males, which is not good news if you don't fall into that category. |  | | |
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:31 - Jan 22 with 1341 views | Europablue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 19:42 - Jan 21 by reusersfreekicks |
Please name all these things that will go in a positive direction. Just seeing the most violent of the 2021 rioters released, where does that rank on your positive scale?
Or the threatened conflict with Panama
Or the ripping up of any climate protection measures
Or the govt stuffed with billionaires filling their own coffers
Or the repealing of measures to reduce prescription costs for the poorest
Or filling the govt with totally unsuitable people with dodgy pasts and little relevant experience
Or demanding that immigrants be called illegal aliens
etc etc |
You'd have to do more than a surface analysis and challenge your preconception that Trump is evil incarnate. You are going to have to provide some sources for some of your claims and background for your headlines because everyone knows that the same thing is spun different ways by a biased headline.
You also have to ignore basic facts about how people in government on both sides do a very good job of enriching themselves while in government. A great example is Nancy Pelosi who is so very good at investments and it isn't just Democrats, there are plenty of examples from both sides.
It really isn't so clear cut that Democrats are good and Republicans are bad.
I would imagine that it is only illegal immigrants who are to be referred to as illegal aliens and it wouldn't include people like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
In general, I have a problem with the mechanism of executive orders, but the positive ideas are:
declaring a national emergency on the border (it is essential to take the problem seriously and address it);
end birthright citizenship (the concept of birthright citizenship is at best outdated and at worst crazy);
end DEI initiatives (people should be chosen based on ability, not inherent characteristics);
declaring that there are only two genders (it sounds a bit like declaring that the earth is round, but the background is that women especially need protections);
death penalty for police murderers. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:32 - Jan 22 with 1345 views | eireblue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:14 - Jan 22 by DJR |
On the World Service it was stated that Trump's executive order concerning diversity would involve cancelling programmes aimed at helping to get the disabled into work.
I wonder if those on this thread who have been defending Trump think this is a good thing.
I also read a quote from Trump saying that these measures were designed to favour white males, which is not good news if you don't fall into that category. |
Hopefully Trump will be getting rid of those woke parking spaces as well, God Bless America. |  | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:39 - Jan 22 with 1298 views | Europablue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 19:47 - Jan 21 by redrickstuhaart |
Or indeed the normalisation of a dog whistle nazi salute.
Trump is already making orders which appear to be unconstitutional.
14th Amendment "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Fascism does not always come in jackboots. It can creep in, in carpet slippers. Or golf shoes... [Post edited 21 Jan 19:47]
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The whole pattern of the use of executive orders over decades is full of unconstitutional orders. It is a typical tactic to declare an executive order to make a short term gain before the order is declared unconstitutional. It is a terrible overstep of executive power. There should be way more scrutiny, but on the other hand declaring that police killers are to get the death penalty does not sidestep the protections of the constitution. There will be due process and no execution will take place on those grounds before a supreme court ruling. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:50 - Jan 22 with 1238 views | Europablue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 19:49 - Jan 21 by redrickstuhaart |
Same old sleight of hand.
Agreeing that these exec orders are questionable.
But then saying pardons of violent rioters, commution of sentences ofa far right racist who gathered weapons in a hotel room to supply the march on capitol hill, is political. |
My point is that prosecutions of rioters should be proportionate and not biased by politics. It just should not be possible to pardon anyone for any reason. There should be a clear basis for a pardon. For example, if someone is serving time in prison for something that is no longer a crime, or the punishment is disproportionate.
I don't know every case, but I am certain that there were political prosecutions and inflation of charges. I don't agree with a blanket pardon. I certainly think that people who trespassed in the Capitol and were not violent do not deserve to be in prison 4 years later.
So you see, it is your same old sleight of hand of trying to claim that just because I agree with many of the pardons, I agree with all of the pardons. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:52 - Jan 22 with 1220 views | Europablue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 19:56 - Jan 21 by vapour_trail |
Apologist.
Part of the problem. |
You attitude provides cover for politicians to ignore major issues that will be resolved by violence if they are not resolved peacefully by being addressed by policy. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 11:06 - Jan 22 with 1181 views | Europablue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 09:47 - Jan 22 by redrickstuhaart |
Some things are absolutes or near to them. As much as you might wish to equivocate. Treating people equally is one of them. Climate change being real us another.
What on earth makes you think that these supposedly disenfranchised people are not being lidtened to? Large swathes of the press and media, many senior politicians, talk abput little else. Its a myth and an excuse.
Are you seriously saying that vaccines working is a matter of opinion? Or that treating people badly for being different is a matter of judgment???!!! And then objecting to people opposing clearly wrong or fascistic rhetoric? [Post edited 22 Jan 9:50]
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How is climate change and absolute? There are all sorts of things to debate about climate change. Even if we all agreed on the urgency to tackle climate change we'd have to debate how much we would negatively impact people to do it and even if we agreed on that, we probably wouldn't be able to democratically and peacefully force net zero austerity on the populace. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 11:10 - Jan 22 with 1176 views | Europablue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:12 - Jan 22 by lowhouseblue |
"Or that treating people badly for being different is a matter of judgment???!!!"
absolutely it's a matter of judgement (though i think dealing with such broad and sweeping generalisations is pretty pointless other than as a form or moral grandstanding). to think that people shouldn't be treated differently for being different is just a very strange and unsustainable pseudo moral assertion. what does 'badly' even mean? people constantly receive different outcomes because they are different - having different abilities, different attitudes and ambitions, different opportunities, etc etc. how differently people should be treated, and according to which differences, is a matter for political debate. some forms of different treatment we decide to outlaw (different treatment on the basis of sex, race or sexuality) others we seek to limit (different outcomes because of inheritance) - but there is no absolute prohibition on 'treating people badly for being different' - how we interpret it and apply it is all about judgement.
for example, trump has said that the us federal state will now be 'colour blind and treat people on the basis of merit'. that's a practical version of your vague and wooly moral assertion - but one i guess many people now disagree with. again it all comes down to politics and debate not the assertion of some abstract absolute.
I do think that social media has promoted the assertion of moral absolutes in the place of political debate to the extent that people now often really struggle to separate the two. |
You are the voice of reason on here against ideologues.
I don't think you agree with me on many things, but I agree with you on the one important thing that allows us to coexist in society, and that is your openness to reasonable debate and not just assuming the worst of people you may not agree with. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 11:51 - Jan 22 with 1141 views | Samuelowen88 |
Add to this pardoning the guy wo made silk road.
Sold 100's of millions of pounds of drugs
orders multiple murders |  |
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 11:57 - Jan 22 with 1124 views | StokieBlue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 11:06 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
How is climate change and absolute? There are all sorts of things to debate about climate change. Even if we all agreed on the urgency to tackle climate change we'd have to debate how much we would negatively impact people to do it and even if we agreed on that, we probably wouldn't be able to democratically and peacefully force net zero austerity on the populace. |
I can safely saying that relaxing the rules to allow more fossil fuel exploitation whilst also reducing subsidies for green alternatives is not debating things about climate change.
It's totally ignoring it.
Stop being disingenuous.
SB |  | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:19 - Jan 22 with 1056 views | lowhouseblue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 11:10 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
You are the voice of reason on here against ideologues.
I don't think you agree with me on many things, but I agree with you on the one important thing that allows us to coexist in society, and that is your openness to reasonable debate and not just assuming the worst of people you may not agree with. |
i inherited a political maxim from my father: "if you want to persuade people you first have to find things you agree with them about."
sadly the approach of too many people now seems to be: "if you find something you disagree with someone about you should write them off as morally reprehensible." | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:32 - Jan 22 with 1013 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:12 - Jan 22 by lowhouseblue |
"Or that treating people badly for being different is a matter of judgment???!!!"
absolutely it's a matter of judgement (though i think dealing with such broad and sweeping generalisations is pretty pointless other than as a form or moral grandstanding). to think that people shouldn't be treated differently for being different is just a very strange and unsustainable pseudo moral assertion. what does 'badly' even mean? people constantly receive different outcomes because they are different - having different abilities, different attitudes and ambitions, different opportunities, etc etc. how differently people should be treated, and according to which differences, is a matter for political debate. some forms of different treatment we decide to outlaw (different treatment on the basis of sex, race or sexuality) others we seek to limit (different outcomes because of inheritance) - but there is no absolute prohibition on 'treating people badly for being different' - how we interpret it and apply it is all about judgement.
for example, trump has said that the us federal state will now be 'colour blind and treat people on the basis of merit'. that's a practical version of your vague and wooly moral assertion - but one i guess many people now disagree with. again it all comes down to politics and debate not the assertion of some abstract absolute.
I do think that social media has promoted the assertion of moral absolutes in the place of political debate to the extent that people now often really struggle to separate the two. |
If you genuinely believe that, there really is no further conversation to have. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:33 - Jan 22 with 998 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 11:06 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
How is climate change and absolute? There are all sorts of things to debate about climate change. Even if we all agreed on the urgency to tackle climate change we'd have to debate how much we would negatively impact people to do it and even if we agreed on that, we probably wouldn't be able to democratically and peacefully force net zero austerity on the populace. |
You have dishonestly answered in a way which does not reflect what i said. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:35 - Jan 22 with 984 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:07 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
I don't think you understand the role of the supreme court judges. They are independent and they don't do what the person who appointed them wants them to. The person who appoints them just chooses the qualified judge who has a similar philosophy to the constitution. They broadly fall into judges who follow the constitution and those who like to interpret what the constitution means.
Changing the 2 term limit would be so incredibly divisive that it would certainly spark armed conflict. |
This isnt true. Trump has actively loaded the court with religious conservative judges who are inclined to particular biases in order to further his agendas. Judges should never be political appointments. In the us now , they are. | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:50 - Jan 22 with 940 views | DJR |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 10:07 - Jan 22 by Europablue |
I don't think you understand the role of the supreme court judges. They are independent and they don't do what the person who appointed them wants them to. The person who appoints them just chooses the qualified judge who has a similar philosophy to the constitution. They broadly fall into judges who follow the constitution and those who like to interpret what the constitution means.
Changing the 2 term limit would be so incredibly divisive that it would certainly spark armed conflict. |
Speaking as a lawyer, I think there is something inherently wrong with a system in which prosecutors and judges have open political allegiances, and I don't care whether they are a Democrat or a Republican. It's just incompatible in my view with the proper functioning of justice. [Post edited 22 Jan 12:52]
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:52 - Jan 22 with 930 views | DJR |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:19 - Jan 22 by lowhouseblue |
i inherited a political maxim from my father: "if you want to persuade people you first have to find things you agree with them about."
sadly the approach of too many people now seems to be: "if you find something you disagree with someone about you should write them off as morally reprehensible." |
Your dad was a wise man, and I always try to ensure my posts stick to the argument rather than attacking, or being dismissive of, the person. [Post edited 22 Jan 13:04]
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| Trump....all you need to know. on 13:09 - Jan 22 with 879 views | eireblue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 12:19 - Jan 22 by lowhouseblue |
i inherited a political maxim from my father: "if you want to persuade people you first have to find things you agree with them about."
sadly the approach of too many people now seems to be: "if you find something you disagree with someone about you should write them off as morally reprehensible." |
“Apparently he likes dogs….” | | | |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 13:10 - Jan 22 with 871 views | lowhouseblue |
| Trump....all you need to know. on 13:09 - Jan 22 by eireblue |
“Apparently he likes dogs….” |
?? ok, i don't get that one. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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