| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 08:30 - Aug 26 with 6236 views | Zx1988 |
Had the 'pleasure' of listening to Zia Yussuf (remember him? He's the one who originally tried to resign from Reform because they were too racist, but was somehow convinced by Führage to stay...) trying to defend Reform's new immigration policy on R4 this morning.
It's scary how much of their rationale doesn't even stand up to the most basic of scrutiny, but will no doubt be lapped up by their target demographic.
For example, claiming that immediate deportation of illegal immigrants will reduce the burden on the NHS, pensions, and welfare system. My understanding was that, by virtue of their being illegal migrants, they wouldn't even be able to access pensions or the welfare system? |  |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 17:26 - Aug 26 with 929 views | Plums |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 17:07 - Aug 26 by monkeymagic |
I find it astonishing that a relatively small number of people trying to access this country gets far more political attention than the economy, nhs, social care, climate change etc. Similarly, we seem to spend huge amounts of time on identity politics. It’s almost as if the bigger issues are too difficult to solve so we’ll squabble about these instead. |
It's not astonishing when the peddlers of 'news' don't pay tax here and have a vested interest (i.e. profit either for their news outlets or other business interests) in keeping people angry. |  |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:19 - Aug 26 with 809 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 09:40 - Aug 26 by blueasfook |
Does anyone take the Greens seriously though, other than a few crusty hippies? |
Hopefully more people than take your edgy soundbites seriously |  | | |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:19 - Aug 26 with 807 views | lowhouseblue |
if we're going to avoid a farage government we need to recognise, and starmer needs to respond to, the following: a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that the management of illegal immigration is failing; both main parties have made promises about it on which they have failed to deliver (though labour have hardly had a fair chance yet); a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that our systems for assessing asylum claims are failing - they are too slow, they are considered unfair, they fail to deport those whose claims fail, and courts and tribunals have reinterpreted the 1951 convention and the echr to distort the original distinction between refugees and economic migrants; a large majority of the electorate believe that immigration more generally is out of control and successive governments have made promises without delivering (the last government actually implemented what appear to many to amount to open border policies).
clearly most on this thread don't agree with any of that. and you can argue about why so many people do believe the above (they are thick, they are all bigots, they have they been manipulated by farage, it's the media, farage is a liar and a fascist, the bbc has given farage too much attention, etc etc?). but the fact remains that's what a large proportion of the electorate believe. and the failure to date of the main parties to respond has helped fuel a much wider crisis of trust in the conventional parties.
so if we're going to avoid farage the current government needs to deliver on its promises - bring down illegal migration, reform the asylum system and make it effective, cut total immigration ... and in order to rebuild public trust more generally, bring down waiting lists, reignite growth, and bring down inflation. all in all starmer winning the 2024 election now feels like a bit of a curse - if starmer pulls it all off it will be a huge achievement. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:27 - Aug 26 with 770 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:34 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
We accept that Farage is a nasty little hate preacher but he didn't direct people to set fire to hotels where thankfully no one was killed. That can be laid at the door of Tommy Robinson.
I'd say there is a massive difference between Farage and Gerry Adams, who was an Officer Commanding in an organisation responsible for the murder of over 600 innocent civilians and nearly 1000 troops and police officers.
I think people are losing all sense of objectivity if they are comparing Farage to Gerry Adams. That of course is just my opinion. [Post edited 26 Aug 13:35]
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If he gets elected and when he's done aping Trump innocent people will die | | | |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:30 - Aug 26 with 765 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:41 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue |
That is the Conservative Party's one route to avoid obliteration - merge with Reform & make Farage leader. This would frighten off many moderate Conservatives, but it might seem better than obliteration. |
Yeah who cares about integrity, honesty and the people of the U K. Go populist lies and get elected. FFS | | | |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:40 - Aug 26 with 724 views | jontysnut |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 09:02 - Aug 26 by Swansea_Blue |
And the press in general. These supposed race riots that have been "exploding" all over the country are smaller than our local WI coffee morning. It's almost as if large sections of the press (worryingly now including the BBC) are trying to stoke unrest. |
Richard Madeley is the absolute worst. We laugh at his Partridge behaviour but there's no hiding which side he's on. |  | | |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:48 - Aug 26 with 694 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:41 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue |
That is the Conservative Party's one route to avoid obliteration - merge with Reform & make Farage leader. This would frighten off many moderate Conservatives, but it might seem better than obliteration. |
I suspect you’re right. I don’t think the Tories would be too adverse to that; they’ve a lot of MP’s now who are effectively reform in a different colour tie. A lot of moderates have gone and they took on a load of effectively Reform MPs in all but name during Johnson’s time.
I question whether Farage would want to join forces though. He’s driven a lot by a grudge against the established political landscape (comes from being an outsider and having the piss taken out of him for years). As a guess I reckon he’d like to smash them into oblivion. |  |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:50 - Aug 26 with 688 views | eireblue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:19 - Aug 26 by lowhouseblue |
if we're going to avoid a farage government we need to recognise, and starmer needs to respond to, the following: a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that the management of illegal immigration is failing; both main parties have made promises about it on which they have failed to deliver (though labour have hardly had a fair chance yet); a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that our systems for assessing asylum claims are failing - they are too slow, they are considered unfair, they fail to deport those whose claims fail, and courts and tribunals have reinterpreted the 1951 convention and the echr to distort the original distinction between refugees and economic migrants; a large majority of the electorate believe that immigration more generally is out of control and successive governments have made promises without delivering (the last government actually implemented what appear to many to amount to open border policies).
clearly most on this thread don't agree with any of that. and you can argue about why so many people do believe the above (they are thick, they are all bigots, they have they been manipulated by farage, it's the media, farage is a liar and a fascist, the bbc has given farage too much attention, etc etc?). but the fact remains that's what a large proportion of the electorate believe. and the failure to date of the main parties to respond has helped fuel a much wider crisis of trust in the conventional parties.
so if we're going to avoid farage the current government needs to deliver on its promises - bring down illegal migration, reform the asylum system and make it effective, cut total immigration ... and in order to rebuild public trust more generally, bring down waiting lists, reignite growth, and bring down inflation. all in all starmer winning the 2024 election now feels like a bit of a curse - if starmer pulls it all off it will be a huge achievement. |
That is your challenge.
You are supposed to be convincing Benters not to vote for Farage, not people that won’t vote for Farage.
Reform are already changing their language, to counter Labour making progress.
There are lots of majority beliefs that have changed. Leadership is about leading not following.
You are asking people to give into Farage rhetoric who don’t agree with Farage rhetoric, why should they?
If Farage convinced enough people that the NHS should be privatised or we should have the death penalty, using emotional language, would your response be, yep we probably should break up the NHS and make it private a little bit, and allow the death penalty a little bit.
Please vote for us since we do a little bit of what you want. But not everything the other guy claimed they will do. |  | | |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:15 - Aug 26 with 614 views | lowhouseblue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:50 - Aug 26 by eireblue |
That is your challenge.
You are supposed to be convincing Benters not to vote for Farage, not people that won’t vote for Farage.
Reform are already changing their language, to counter Labour making progress.
There are lots of majority beliefs that have changed. Leadership is about leading not following.
You are asking people to give into Farage rhetoric who don’t agree with Farage rhetoric, why should they?
If Farage convinced enough people that the NHS should be privatised or we should have the death penalty, using emotional language, would your response be, yep we probably should break up the NHS and make it private a little bit, and allow the death penalty a little bit.
Please vote for us since we do a little bit of what you want. But not everything the other guy claimed they will do. |
yes, you can play that game - the electorate are wrong and we know better. we're not going to listen. but it's increasingly a minority view and it looks very unlikely that in 2029 there'll be an electoral coalition capable of re-electing a government that fails to act. you can rant online to people who agree with you about farage being a facist, and that may well be fun, but it doesn't actually change anything.
the answer to this straw man benters should be that a starmer government has understood people's concerns and has acted to fulfil its promises. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:28 - Aug 26 with 564 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
It's not quite that simple. Somebody claiming Asylum is not eligible for benefits until their claim has been accepted. BUT the local authority has an obligation to house them as vulnerable people, and Social Services then make an emergency payment of approximately £50 per week for food.
And they would have access to emergency medical care.
And an appointed Social Worker.
There was a solution to all this. If we had remained within the EU, signed up to Schengen and the Dublin Protocols, then we could have been part of a unified European solution to a Pan-European problem.
That is the complete opposite of what Farage sold the public: Brexit. Deliberately undermining co-operation with our European neighbours.
It's been an utter disaster on every level, and net migration has gone up, not down, as a result of Brexit. The complete opposite of what Farage "promised".
Why on earth does anyone believe a word he says?
He's incapable of producing a coherent policy on this, or anything, because it's boring to have to write policies, and he's never done any useful work at any point in his grifting political career. | | | |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:34 - Aug 26 with 517 views | DJR |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:19 - Aug 26 by lowhouseblue |
if we're going to avoid a farage government we need to recognise, and starmer needs to respond to, the following: a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that the management of illegal immigration is failing; both main parties have made promises about it on which they have failed to deliver (though labour have hardly had a fair chance yet); a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that our systems for assessing asylum claims are failing - they are too slow, they are considered unfair, they fail to deport those whose claims fail, and courts and tribunals have reinterpreted the 1951 convention and the echr to distort the original distinction between refugees and economic migrants; a large majority of the electorate believe that immigration more generally is out of control and successive governments have made promises without delivering (the last government actually implemented what appear to many to amount to open border policies).
clearly most on this thread don't agree with any of that. and you can argue about why so many people do believe the above (they are thick, they are all bigots, they have they been manipulated by farage, it's the media, farage is a liar and a fascist, the bbc has given farage too much attention, etc etc?). but the fact remains that's what a large proportion of the electorate believe. and the failure to date of the main parties to respond has helped fuel a much wider crisis of trust in the conventional parties.
so if we're going to avoid farage the current government needs to deliver on its promises - bring down illegal migration, reform the asylum system and make it effective, cut total immigration ... and in order to rebuild public trust more generally, bring down waiting lists, reignite growth, and bring down inflation. all in all starmer winning the 2024 election now feels like a bit of a curse - if starmer pulls it all off it will be a huge achievement. |
It doesn't help that many people's views on the number of illegal migrants is not based on facts.
As I said on another thread, a recent YouGov poll found that nearly half the population believe there are more illegal migrants in this country than legal, when in fact illegal migrants make up only a tiny fraction.
Given this, it strikes me there is nothing that Starmer can do which will match the bogus promises that Farage is now making, including deporting 600,000 asylum seekers, a figure which plays into public misconceptions and must include those who have already been granted asylum. [Post edited 26 Aug 19:38]
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:36 - Aug 26 with 513 views | Plums |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:28 - Aug 26 by ArnoldMoorhen |
It's not quite that simple. Somebody claiming Asylum is not eligible for benefits until their claim has been accepted. BUT the local authority has an obligation to house them as vulnerable people, and Social Services then make an emergency payment of approximately £50 per week for food.
And they would have access to emergency medical care.
And an appointed Social Worker.
There was a solution to all this. If we had remained within the EU, signed up to Schengen and the Dublin Protocols, then we could have been part of a unified European solution to a Pan-European problem.
That is the complete opposite of what Farage sold the public: Brexit. Deliberately undermining co-operation with our European neighbours.
It's been an utter disaster on every level, and net migration has gone up, not down, as a result of Brexit. The complete opposite of what Farage "promised".
Why on earth does anyone believe a word he says?
He's incapable of producing a coherent policy on this, or anything, because it's boring to have to write policies, and he's never done any useful work at any point in his grifting political career. |
I think you're being very unfair with your last comment.
He has been extremely useful to nice Uncle Vlad in his quest to destabilise Europe and NATO. He's been so useful we're almost now at war with ourselves over the lives of poor people whilst he gets on with attempting to rebuild the USSR. | |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:40 - Aug 26 with 487 views | Trequartista |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 18:19 - Aug 26 by lowhouseblue |
if we're going to avoid a farage government we need to recognise, and starmer needs to respond to, the following: a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that the management of illegal immigration is failing; both main parties have made promises about it on which they have failed to deliver (though labour have hardly had a fair chance yet); a large proportion of the uk electorate believe that our systems for assessing asylum claims are failing - they are too slow, they are considered unfair, they fail to deport those whose claims fail, and courts and tribunals have reinterpreted the 1951 convention and the echr to distort the original distinction between refugees and economic migrants; a large majority of the electorate believe that immigration more generally is out of control and successive governments have made promises without delivering (the last government actually implemented what appear to many to amount to open border policies).
clearly most on this thread don't agree with any of that. and you can argue about why so many people do believe the above (they are thick, they are all bigots, they have they been manipulated by farage, it's the media, farage is a liar and a fascist, the bbc has given farage too much attention, etc etc?). but the fact remains that's what a large proportion of the electorate believe. and the failure to date of the main parties to respond has helped fuel a much wider crisis of trust in the conventional parties.
so if we're going to avoid farage the current government needs to deliver on its promises - bring down illegal migration, reform the asylum system and make it effective, cut total immigration ... and in order to rebuild public trust more generally, bring down waiting lists, reignite growth, and bring down inflation. all in all starmer winning the 2024 election now feels like a bit of a curse - if starmer pulls it all off it will be a huge achievement. |
I think its too late, there's already too much anti-Starmer feeling on the right.
Any moves he makes towards a tough immigation policy will lose him more votes on one side than he'd gain on the other.
I get the feeling Starmer is trying to please everyone and will end up pleasing no-one. |  |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:42 - Aug 26 with 475 views | Plums |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:40 - Aug 26 by Trequartista |
I think its too late, there's already too much anti-Starmer feeling on the right.
Any moves he makes towards a tough immigation policy will lose him more votes on one side than he'd gain on the other.
I get the feeling Starmer is trying to please everyone and will end up pleasing no-one. |
Frederick the Great
"He who defends everything defends nothing" | |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:42 - Aug 26 with 472 views | Guthrum |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:03 - Aug 26 by jasondozzell |
It will be a political earthquake. Labour and Tories will both poll below 15%.
I don't think it's a hard task for them anymore. Farage is a skilful politician and Reform understand modern campaigning better than the others.
Starmer delivering fascism was my first thought when they were thrown through the Number 10 door last year by the press. |
I don't think Farage will deliver Fascism, either. It'll be a lot of guff about immigration and returning to "British values", but most of the actual legislation will revolve around massively deregulating the City and trying to make the UK into an effective tax haven. That is Farage's real agenda and that of his backers. |  |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:42 - Aug 26 with 472 views | eireblue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:15 - Aug 26 by lowhouseblue |
yes, you can play that game - the electorate are wrong and we know better. we're not going to listen. but it's increasingly a minority view and it looks very unlikely that in 2029 there'll be an electoral coalition capable of re-electing a government that fails to act. you can rant online to people who agree with you about farage being a facist, and that may well be fun, but it doesn't actually change anything.
the answer to this straw man benters should be that a starmer government has understood people's concerns and has acted to fulfil its promises. |
It isn’t a game, and when did I say I know better, and most importantly, how insulting of you.
I am clearly from a migrant background, have a partner and other extend family that are migrants.
I live and work with migrants, and my local shopping centre is next to two hotels hosting humans claiming asylum.
So with the greatest of respect, in the usual political interpretation of that phrase, you are the one playing a game.
Rather than trying to lecture “lefties” on here about what they should do, which is the equivalent of saying, yeah see three years ago, I told you KMcK would leave, look at me, how clever am I.
How about you demonstrating how good you are at convincing people, and go and keep talking to Benters and convince him not vote for Farage.
Meanwhile, I’ll keep standing up for my family, friends, humans, mammals and principles. | | | |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:43 - Aug 26 with 468 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:40 - Aug 26 by Trequartista |
I think its too late, there's already too much anti-Starmer feeling on the right.
Any moves he makes towards a tough immigation policy will lose him more votes on one side than he'd gain on the other.
I get the feeling Starmer is trying to please everyone and will end up pleasing no-one. |
He’s already got a tough immigration policy (by historical standards) | |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:53 - Aug 26 with 430 views | lowhouseblue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:42 - Aug 26 by eireblue |
It isn’t a game, and when did I say I know better, and most importantly, how insulting of you.
I am clearly from a migrant background, have a partner and other extend family that are migrants.
I live and work with migrants, and my local shopping centre is next to two hotels hosting humans claiming asylum.
So with the greatest of respect, in the usual political interpretation of that phrase, you are the one playing a game.
Rather than trying to lecture “lefties” on here about what they should do, which is the equivalent of saying, yeah see three years ago, I told you KMcK would leave, look at me, how clever am I.
How about you demonstrating how good you are at convincing people, and go and keep talking to Benters and convince him not vote for Farage.
Meanwhile, I’ll keep standing up for my family, friends, humans, mammals and principles. |
so this thread has all the usual stuff about farage - he's a facist, he's as bad as trump, he's racist, he's extreme right, he's a threat to democracy and decency, he's a right wing populist, he's a liar, he's corrupt, he's in the pocket of malign foreign actors ... but is turns out that maintaining the current status quo about immigration, against the wishes of a majority of electors, matters far more than doing anything that might actually prevent farage from becoming pm. i just don't get people's priorities - and the mis-match with their anti-farage rhetoric. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:16 - Aug 26 with 353 views | Dubtractor |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:53 - Aug 26 by lowhouseblue |
so this thread has all the usual stuff about farage - he's a facist, he's as bad as trump, he's racist, he's extreme right, he's a threat to democracy and decency, he's a right wing populist, he's a liar, he's corrupt, he's in the pocket of malign foreign actors ... but is turns out that maintaining the current status quo about immigration, against the wishes of a majority of electors, matters far more than doing anything that might actually prevent farage from becoming pm. i just don't get people's priorities - and the mis-match with their anti-farage rhetoric. |
One person disagreeing with you does not mean everyone in the thread thinks we should maintain the status quo.
And it's arguably a bit arrogant for you to assume that your assessment is the right one, and everyone else in the thread is wrong. |  |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:18 - Aug 26 with 339 views | Mullet |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:16 - Aug 26 by Dubtractor |
One person disagreeing with you does not mean everyone in the thread thinks we should maintain the status quo.
And it's arguably a bit arrogant for you to assume that your assessment is the right one, and everyone else in the thread is wrong. |
Yeah but apart from that…. |  |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:20 - Aug 26 with 325 views | eireblue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:53 - Aug 26 by lowhouseblue |
so this thread has all the usual stuff about farage - he's a facist, he's as bad as trump, he's racist, he's extreme right, he's a threat to democracy and decency, he's a right wing populist, he's a liar, he's corrupt, he's in the pocket of malign foreign actors ... but is turns out that maintaining the current status quo about immigration, against the wishes of a majority of electors, matters far more than doing anything that might actually prevent farage from becoming pm. i just don't get people's priorities - and the mis-match with their anti-farage rhetoric. |
Are you forgetting recent history.
This started with Farage rhetoric about immigration, and how bad the EU was.
What happened, a Tory party didn’t lead, it followed.
People used to laugh a Farage. But people gave in out of fear to a minority view.
You are doing the same thing, worse than that, you want me to pander to Farage, not to stand up for truth, honesty, principles and human decency. Not to post on a topic, and express a view, that you don’t like.
We get your principles, do anything and say anything to stay in power, follow don’t lead. Appease. You have already lost. | | | |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:23 - Aug 26 with 305 views | lowhouseblue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:16 - Aug 26 by Dubtractor |
One person disagreeing with you does not mean everyone in the thread thinks we should maintain the status quo.
And it's arguably a bit arrogant for you to assume that your assessment is the right one, and everyone else in the thread is wrong. |
most posts on the thread have taken that line. taken as a whole the thread isn't all that balanced.
there's nothing arrogant in expressing views as part of a discussion - doing so is an invitation for others to disagree and to challenge. it's how discussion works - everyone assumes that their view has legitimacy, otherwise what's the point. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:32 - Aug 26 with 247 views | lowhouseblue |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:20 - Aug 26 by eireblue |
Are you forgetting recent history.
This started with Farage rhetoric about immigration, and how bad the EU was.
What happened, a Tory party didn’t lead, it followed.
People used to laugh a Farage. But people gave in out of fear to a minority view.
You are doing the same thing, worse than that, you want me to pander to Farage, not to stand up for truth, honesty, principles and human decency. Not to post on a topic, and express a view, that you don’t like.
We get your principles, do anything and say anything to stay in power, follow don’t lead. Appease. You have already lost. |
i just can't see what your strategy is for avoiding a farage government. truth, honesty, principles and human decency all seem very good reasons for avoiding that outcome. i also think immigration policy needs public consent and an electoral mandate - what we have currently has neither. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 20:55 - Aug 26 with 188 views | jasondozzell |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:42 - Aug 26 by Guthrum |
I don't think Farage will deliver Fascism, either. It'll be a lot of guff about immigration and returning to "British values", but most of the actual legislation will revolve around massively deregulating the City and trying to make the UK into an effective tax haven. That is Farage's real agenda and that of his backers. |
Oh of course they will deregulate further and cut taxes and the state. Of course, that goes without saying.
The Nazis were a leading proponents of privatisation in the early 20th C. Worth remembering.
Fascism comes in different forms. Make no mistake, it'll be a hard right government.
Farage is tapping into something real though. That's the issue and seeking to dismiss him just plays into his hands.
Look at his instinctive reaction to Port Talbot crisis. To the left of Labour! He's a skilful politician and miles ahead of Starmer.
The current situation is because the Thatcherite model went pop in 2008 but has been propped up by very powerful vested interests. Meanwhile the country has fallen apart, with whole areas, towns and communities left to rot by complacent liberal elite. National identity has been subsumed by consumerism and late stage capitalist disaster. People aren't very happy.
There's real anger at what has happened and dismissing that is dangerous. Brexit was astonishing. Not for the vote for it but the reaction of the so called moderates and remainers to losing the vote. A gigantic middle class liberal tantrum that confirmed to others that they saw themselves as superior and looked down on them.
We needed the anti austerity movement to act as a check and balance and restore public services and the heart of the country. It was popular and had energy. But centrists couldn't bear it so cynically wrecked it. The political and media elite behaved disgracefully. You had Labour MPs who were wrecking the party from the inside to prevent Corbyn being elected.
The current Labour government bear the blame for that and for Farage and Reform's rise. By having no principles they have left the door open. They have also legitimised Reform. All Labour have done is flags and crackdowns! [Post edited 26 Aug 20:57]
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| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 21:05 - Aug 26 with 148 views | Trequartista |
| Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 19:42 - Aug 26 by Plums |
Frederick the Great
"He who defends everything defends nothing" |
Always thought that was Mick McGiven. [Post edited 26 Aug 21:05]
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