By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:30 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue
There's no side in football where at certain points in games the defensive doesn't seem under pressure or even a shambles. They get caught out. A fullback can be further forward than they want or ball has deflected and caused panic. You'll always get a bit of panic. But overall we've coped with it well.
Of course individual errors. But there's a host of players involved in these goals that could have still prevented them which weren't just those two cbs.
Also this defence has a bad ball playing keeper behind it who isn't the most commanding keeper in the league either so tbh they've coped quite well considering.
Anyways off to bed now.
We can probably argue this all season lol.
But no I don't dislike wolfy. Just that we out grew him. No different to any others who have left.
Whereas I'm not sure we did outgrown them. Maybe we just under-estimated the impact their effect as a team, as a unit.
Look at England tonight. No TAA, Shaw, Stones, Bellingham, Saka, Foden... but put in the best performance under Tuchel. Playing as a unit is key. We need to find that quickly and felling is hardly an argument considering, for example, what Sunderland have managed
So I don't think we outgrew. We got money and acted like a kid in a sweetshop, rather than being more balanced and respectful in our work. Now we have to hope we don't suffer a sugar crash.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:18 - Sep 9 by FrimleyBlue
I can't remember what I had for breakfast let alone specific goals. But if I had the time and could be bothered yes I would but I can't be bothered tbh. There's missed headers. Tripped over balls. Bad passes on occasions. There was one weird one where Clarke passed it back to him. He left it for the keeper who was no where near it and they scored. That was an error by wolfy. There you go.
We did concede a lot of rubbish goals in our last Championship season, as well as playing brilliant attacking football. The Swansea home game jumps straight to mind for two goals that were so soft to concede, second of which Woolf wouldn't elect for highlights reel. Believe we conceded the second most goals ever by an automatic promotion side at Div 2 level.
1
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf (n/t) on 22:52 - Sep 9 with 1003 views
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:37 - Sep 9 by Smoresy
We did concede a lot of rubbish goals in our last Championship season, as well as playing brilliant attacking football. The Swansea home game jumps straight to mind for two goals that were so soft to concede, second of which Woolf wouldn't elect for highlights reel. Believe we conceded the second most goals ever by an automatic promotion side at Div 2 level.
We conceded a crazy amount of goals at home that season.
[Post edited 9 Sep 22:54]
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:37 - Sep 9 by Smoresy
We did concede a lot of rubbish goals in our last Championship season, as well as playing brilliant attacking football. The Swansea home game jumps straight to mind for two goals that were so soft to concede, second of which Woolf wouldn't elect for highlights reel. Believe we conceded the second most goals ever by an automatic promotion side at Div 2 level.
Centre back being beaten for pace by a winger is hardly noteworthy. Question is more what was Clarke doing. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as O'Shea against Derby. Or indeed tonight - at least he started close to his man.
And Woolfenden was always ripped to shreds for these kinds of incidents. Every single time. More so than anyone else. It's akin to the Scowcroft treatment. Like certain fans feel academy players get an easy ride so have to go in heavier on them for criticism to balance it out.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:59 - Sep 9 by pointofblue
Centre back being beaten for pace by a winger is hardly noteworthy. Question is more what was Clarke doing. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as O'Shea against Derby. Or indeed tonight - at least he started close to his man.
And Woolfenden was always ripped to shreds for these kinds of incidents. Every single time. More so than anyone else. It's akin to the Scowcroft treatment. Like certain fans feel academy players get an easy ride so have to go in heavier on them for criticism to balance it out.
I think that's a very generous take tbh for an incident that demanded a challenge imo. I also think you've made more critical O'Shea posts since his arrival than our 'infamous' posters made about their least favourite player in 23/24, though not with the same language to your credit and I respect your alternative view. Probably you have tried to balance what you feel to be an undue level of support for the player who won our end-of-season award, and who supplanted someone you rate highly.
As for Woolf criticism, I genuinely believe you've felt that more keenly than has been apparent on here. Arnie was highly and frequently critical and she received strong backlash for it. He's had other critics on here and he's also had posters sincerely suggesting he could have been on Arsenal's radar at one point, as well as plenty of thoughts in-between. I honestly feel he was/ is much-liked by the majority of the support, if not rated highly by many.* His departure didn't create the same fanfare as Chaplin's, true, but Chaplin is probably the most liked player of the past few seasons.
*Sorry, even if many didn't rate him highly, to avoid ambiguity. Many did/do rate him highly. He very much split opinion from a footballing standpoint.
[Post edited 9 Sep 23:36]
1
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 23:55 - Sep 9 with 866 views
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:39 - Sep 9 by chantryblueboy
Yep, got much more of a connection to a Town academy product that played all of his football here than the yo-yo mercenary that replaced him
For all your love In of Wolf you don't seem to realise he's not even a Town fan. I find that the most off-putting with all the hand wringing that he's one of our own.
0
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 00:01 - Sep 10 with 854 views
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:12 - Sep 9 by pointofblue
Woolfenden was one of the most disliked players of the promotion squad. Look at the reaction to the likes of Burgess, Morsy, Broadhead and Chaplin going compared to him. I personally think his pre-Gsmechanger performances cast a shadow over him which we struggled to shake off, and I do understand that to a degree. But I think he's just going to be one of our polarising players moving forward who won't get the support that others have.
How do you know he was so disliked within the promotion squad?
Well, the manager clearly thinks O’Shea is better because a) the first chance to replace Woolfie last summer he did so, by spending £12m in the process and b) he’s just sold Woolfie even though we didn’t get another replacement in the door for him.
I love LW, think he was a top drawer centre half at this level and a real shame to see him leave, but you have to ask the question as to what it is about his game that McKenna doesn’t like as he was happy to replace him as soon as we got to the Prem.
FWIW, O’Shea just edges it for me, but I’d have liked to have seen LW stay.
The debate will always rage on whether people would be that bothered had he not come though our academy also.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:59 - Sep 9 by pointofblue
Centre back being beaten for pace by a winger is hardly noteworthy. Question is more what was Clarke doing. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as O'Shea against Derby. Or indeed tonight - at least he started close to his man.
And Woolfenden was always ripped to shreds for these kinds of incidents. Every single time. More so than anyone else. It's akin to the Scowcroft treatment. Like certain fans feel academy players get an easy ride so have to go in heavier on them for criticism to balance it out.
Come off it, that's dreadful defending from Woolfy, and if you can't at least see that then it's hard to view your comments as balanced.
I rated Woolfy, and his development under Mckenna was lovely to see, but for whatever reason McKenna clearly had reservations. I'd have kept him FWIW, but he very clearly wanted out, and I can't blame him if he wants to play regularly.
Further to this, McKenna clearly likes our defence to play a relatively high risk game, to break the press/create opportunities to break and so mistakes are likely from whoever is in our defence. See the stick Clarke got in the 23/24 season simply for playing the tucked in/inverted full back role which invariably left a left winger in lots of space.
[Post edited 10 Sep 6:22]
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
I'm not sure one incident is the proof or 'gotcha' you're hoping for. All players make mistakes, and when defenders or keepers make them it often leads to goals.
O'Shea has generally been pretty good this season, I'm more concerned about Greaves.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 22:59 - Sep 9 by pointofblue
Centre back being beaten for pace by a winger is hardly noteworthy. Question is more what was Clarke doing. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as O'Shea against Derby. Or indeed tonight - at least he started close to his man.
And Woolfenden was always ripped to shreds for these kinds of incidents. Every single time. More so than anyone else. It's akin to the Scowcroft treatment. Like certain fans feel academy players get an easy ride so have to go in heavier on them for criticism to balance it out.
edit: THIS POST WAS REALLY OTT - I'll leave it for context, but apologise again for it.
----
The commonality between you and the OP is that you both come across as being really angry about Woolfenden leaving (I can sympathise with that to a large extent, I really like him as a player) but seem to be petulantly and counter-productively taking out that anger by attacking the player who has replaced him (very widely considered an upgrade, HEAVILY backed up by all the stats).
Even if you somehow are unable to understand the last bit, he's our player, the captain of our team, the future of ITFC, who you are supposed to support.
Your attitudes are really childish and stupid, and while I'm sure you couldn't give a toss, I'm putting both of you on my ignore list because I don't need to read any more of this sort of idiotic sh!t at the moment.
I think O'Shea and Greaves will come good. They've both made mistakes this season which have cost us.... but central defence is the area I'm least worried about. We need to start creating more and scoring goals most importantly. It's that front four which needs to start clicking.
I was more bothered by Burgess leaving than Woolf. Felt Burgess has been more hard done by.... but Kieran favours O'Shea and Greaves.... and in the long run, we'll find out whether it's the right decision. Thought the O'Shea v Woolf thing was done last season. O'Shea was mostly seen as an upgrade.
Woolf was becoming a better and better player the more he was left out of the side. A bit like Kevin Bru was the creative genius that we missed when Mick ignored him. Time for Woolf to move on. He deserves the chance to be a starter at Championship level, but I prefer O'Shea.
0
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:04 - Sep 10 with 413 views
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 07:38 - Sep 10 by NthQldITFC
edit: THIS POST WAS REALLY OTT - I'll leave it for context, but apologise again for it.
----
The commonality between you and the OP is that you both come across as being really angry about Woolfenden leaving (I can sympathise with that to a large extent, I really like him as a player) but seem to be petulantly and counter-productively taking out that anger by attacking the player who has replaced him (very widely considered an upgrade, HEAVILY backed up by all the stats).
Even if you somehow are unable to understand the last bit, he's our player, the captain of our team, the future of ITFC, who you are supposed to support.
Your attitudes are really childish and stupid, and while I'm sure you couldn't give a toss, I'm putting both of you on my ignore list because I don't need to read any more of this sort of idiotic sh!t at the moment.
[Post edited 10 Sep 10:11]
I hope you change your mind as I always rate your views as a poster, and understand I am probably going in very strongly on O'Shea. Do I think he's getting a relatively easy ride from the majority considering the issues and errors he's made this season? Yes, at the moment, I do. Especially when compared to how others have been treated after errors. I would gently point out not only was mainly to blame for Derby's second but both he and Greaves also went AWOL for their penalty as well.
In their defence, however, I do not think they compliment each other. I have always thought O'Shea and Burgess or Woolfenden and Greaves looked more comfortable as a partnership than O'Shea and Greaves have. We can only hope something clicks as time goes on.
I don't think I'm as annoyed at Woolfenden leaving - he had to - as much as I don't think he got a fair crack at the whip and O'Shea has been nowhere near perfect or totally comfortable, particularly this season.
I do accept I am getting overly triggered about the whole thing and I need to work out why - for the sake mine and everyone else's sanity. So I will apologise for that and try and be less emotional moving forward.
My argument against O'Shea last season is we bought him for £20m (if you include addons) to replace Wolf, who we had for free, was O'Shea a 20x better player than Wolf, No. Was he even a slight improvement on Wolf, No
Hence I always felt we could have remained with Wolf and spent O'Shea's £20m on a different position, and it wouldn't have a negative on our defensive performances.
Once O'Shea was named captain this season, then Wolf knew his playing time was only going to be cup games and/or if O'Shea was injured.
-1
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:14 - Sep 10 with 372 views
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:10 - Sep 10 by BloomBlue
Both have good and bad points.
My argument against O'Shea last season is we bought him for £20m (if you include addons) to replace Wolf, who we had for free, was O'Shea a 20x better player than Wolf, No. Was he even a slight improvement on Wolf, No
Hence I always felt we could have remained with Wolf and spent O'Shea's £20m on a different position, and it wouldn't have a negative on our defensive performances.
Once O'Shea was named captain this season, then Wolf knew his playing time was only going to be cup games and/or if O'Shea was injured.
I thought it was £15m with add ons? And we've just sold Woolfenden for £4m.
I think Frimmers said it up thread - £7m for LW and £11m for DOS would have been a fairer comparison between the two.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:10 - Sep 10 by BloomBlue
Both have good and bad points.
My argument against O'Shea last season is we bought him for £20m (if you include addons) to replace Wolf, who we had for free, was O'Shea a 20x better player than Wolf, No. Was he even a slight improvement on Wolf, No
Hence I always felt we could have remained with Wolf and spent O'Shea's £20m on a different position, and it wouldn't have a negative on our defensive performances.
Once O'Shea was named captain this season, then Wolf knew his playing time was only going to be cup games and/or if O'Shea was injured.
I think Wolfy would have been fine (more than fine) for another season in the Championship, but as soon as you get promoted again I think it's fair to feel he would need replacing again, unless looking to play a back three.
For that reason O'Shea was a good signing and will prove to be. He's more physical and 'hairy arsed' than Wolfy and obviously has leadership qualities that LW seemingly doesn't.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:41 - Sep 10 by Garv
I think Wolfy would have been fine (more than fine) for another season in the Championship, but as soon as you get promoted again I think it's fair to feel he would need replacing again, unless looking to play a back three.
For that reason O'Shea was a good signing and will prove to be. He's more physical and 'hairy arsed' than Wolfy and obviously has leadership qualities that LW seemingly doesn't.
He'll be fine.
This is a wide perception but I don't think Woolfenden really looked out of his depth in the Premier League? I actually thought he took a step forward.
As anyone who has been bored and/or driven senseless by my posts over the last year I do wish we'd stuck with a back three for longer last season.
We have, in the most part, defended well so far this season. Issue is Greaves and DOS have both given goals away with really poor play.
Greaves vs Preston not being strong enough and giving away a stupid penalty Greaves (partly) vs Southampton deciding inexplicably to run the ball in to a crowded midfield and losing it DOS vs Derby chesting the ball down to a Derby player
Added on to the fact that Greaves was extremely lucky not to give one away to Kyogo vs Brum.
Its frustrating because these moments aside they have both looked really solid. They just need to cut the brain farts in crucial moments. Cannot keep giving goals away like we are. Make the other team earn it.
There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:04 - Sep 10 by pointofblue
I hope you change your mind as I always rate your views as a poster, and understand I am probably going in very strongly on O'Shea. Do I think he's getting a relatively easy ride from the majority considering the issues and errors he's made this season? Yes, at the moment, I do. Especially when compared to how others have been treated after errors. I would gently point out not only was mainly to blame for Derby's second but both he and Greaves also went AWOL for their penalty as well.
In their defence, however, I do not think they compliment each other. I have always thought O'Shea and Burgess or Woolfenden and Greaves looked more comfortable as a partnership than O'Shea and Greaves have. We can only hope something clicks as time goes on.
I don't think I'm as annoyed at Woolfenden leaving - he had to - as much as I don't think he got a fair crack at the whip and O'Shea has been nowhere near perfect or totally comfortable, particularly this season.
I do accept I am getting overly triggered about the whole thing and I need to work out why - for the sake mine and everyone else's sanity. So I will apologise for that and try and be less emotional moving forward.
What a great response to my somewhat OTT post earlier. I've already reconsidered and realised that things I'm dealing with at the moment made me far too tetchy this morning. Your maturity in this now has actually brightened my day, ta, and apologies.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
