| An interesting night in the stands 09:09 - Jan 21 with 8089 views | homer_123 |
I've posted before about the group in front of me that spend the entire match on their phones betting - well, they were not there last night.
However, a fair few fans around where we sit were quite vocal last night and what they were talking about I overheard two or three groups bemoaning on the way out after the game.
Now, this comes with the caveat that we could have gifted a goal to Brizzle last night quite easily, so in some regard I 'can' understand their thinking.
In short, a lot of talk/ moaning about 'playing out from the back'. Slow, pedestrian, fraught with danger. Kipre in particular was coming in for some scathing criticism. As was O'Shea - now that's obvious because when we play out - it's these two.
A fair few were just wanting us to hit it long, get the ball up the pitch ASAP. In addition, one chap was almost losing his marbles over the fact that we attack down the wing (left or right), can't progress so we come back and recycle - he was going apoplectic.
The final comment, and this was the comment I heard two other groups mention on the way out, in addition to the above, was this: "I'm here to be entertained, that's not entertainment!".
I understand we all views things differently but it does amaze me, still, that people seem to not understand how and why we play the way we do.
I was sat there hearing the chap behind me shout at Kipre to 'hit it long' (like Kipre is going to hear it or follow his advice) - and I'm wondering if he's watching the same game. We have Clarke hugging one touchline, Burns the other - both with chalk on their boots. Azon in the middle (ie nowhere near each other) against a back 5 (first half this was). Add to that both Matsi and Jens were deeper (as we are looking to play through the line) - so, again, not near the front three at the time Kipre has the ball.
What, exactly, would the point be to hit it long at that point. Burns nor Clarke were running in behind and if we played to Azon, who's he going to bring into play?
Now, I've got nothing against a nice long ball (see Burns to Azon cross field ball, lovely and Azon unlucky with his shot) and it's important to be able to mix our play up and I think we have got better at this.
I posted the other day about expectations and how we, as fans, need to temper them. We aren't going to roll everyone over every week, we aren't always going to play great football (first 15 last night, I thought we were sloppy with our passing for example).
But how could anyone come away from PR last night and not be entertained. Two really well worked and taken goals, could easily had a couple more. Decent opposition who didn't make it easy but we also didn't give them too much of a sniff.
Maybe I'm being harsh or just focusing on the negative (these were a minority of fans I will say) but if you can't go and enjoy that at PR last night, I'm not sure what the point is? [Post edited 21 Jan 11:25]
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| An interesting night in the stands on 18:37 - Jan 21 with 993 views | SheffordBlue |
| An interesting night in the stands on 18:33 - Jan 21 by BlueForYou |
From the games I've been to in person this season, it seems to me that we've gained a lot of possession from long balls upfield, the opposition not controlling the ball, & we get a toe in & get possession, & away we go. I've seen Clarke, Matusiwa, Philogene, Clarke, & others all do this. So it is perfectly possible for the long ball upfield to work, but as in a lot of football tactics, you can't get away with that every time. Faffing about with it brings a press which opens up space behind, as we all know. The problem with faffing is that we often aren't very good at it & ultimately it's bloody embarrassing & unnecessary to give away goals in that fashion. It takes more than one tactic to win a football game. I would faff with it no more than 20% of the time. |
How many times have we conceded from 'faffing' this season versus goals we've conceded from playing it long/gifting possession back to opposition and then conceding? I can think of one goal from faffing, not too sure on the other one but suspect it's more than that even if the goal doesn't come instantly. |  |
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| Aye, and I sit on the edge of my seat going oh gawd a lot of the time on 18:44 - Jan 21 with 974 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Aye, and I sit on the edge of my seat going oh gawd a lot of the time on 09:39 - Jan 21 by Dyland |
Loads of us do, no doubt. But we don't yell in a clueless manner, and most (I hope) don't walk out after a two nil win still complaining about it.
It's as if these people can't deal with being wrong. |
Add me to the nervous but fully on board with playing out from the back gang. My nerves would be in a better place if Kipre had a better left foot! |  |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 18:46 - Jan 21 with 970 views | SchancheITFC |
I love the way Town are playing. Trying to keep possession. Drawing opposition to press then just pass round them. Managing games with one eye on the next game if in total control. Dark arts when needed. Fantastic. | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 18:54 - Jan 21 with 965 views | armchaircritic59 |
To those who don't like " tippy tappy, playing out from the back football " I have one sentence containing facts not opinions. Last 13 league games, 8 clean sheets, 8 goals conceeded. Enough said! | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 18:56 - Jan 21 with 957 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| An interesting night in the stands on 09:34 - Jan 21 by SitfcB |
I really do despair.
And I’m really fed up of calling it out, on here, FB, Twitter etc.
That’s our style of play. That’s our style of play that won us 2 promotions, gave us a season of PL football (which were competitive in before Christmas) and it now has us 2nd in the league - the league that we spent 17 years in finishing mainly 15th, I wish people like that would just fook off.
Last night was like one of the complete away performances from the last time in the Championship, Derby away for example, two well worked goals - one in each half - both at critical time periods whilst never looking threatened.
With the amount of passes we play around the back there’s bound to be one or two misplaced ones and it’s to be expected but people can’t seem to get in the head that it’s the whole point of the game plan and to play ourselves out of trouble if it does occur.
I don’t think they will ever get it.
The same people probably bemoaned Mick McCarthy for his style, oh wait, they probably didn’t because they probably weren’t there. |
Careful Sitters I did this type of post and got a scathing reply asking me if I had enjoyed my 'day trip' from some tool. I don't really recall or care who.
Maybe it was that cold wind last night making them angry. |  |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 19:50 - Jan 21 with 917 views | gosblue |
I love it when we play out from the back. The issue is that once we've broken through their press, our transition isn't always quick enough. We often alowed Bristol to get back into a low block and into shape. In league one we scored 11 goals starting from the keeper and conceded two (not sure about the exact stats but it was something like that) so we know it works. Btw, Davis and Clarke struck up a really good partnership which, up to last night hasn't been as good as Philogene and Davis. | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 21:01 - Jan 21 with 877 views | ClareBlue |
I think we have been entertaining the last 10 weeks. We have some quick releases from keeper now part of the tactics and playing from the back is entertaining. We scored great goals and plenty of them. We have put it up to any team that think they can bully us and shown some real quality play. We've beaten fat Frankie twice, what more can you want. These guys weren't around in the tennis matches of league 1 against Wycombe or the grinding tedium of Mick tactics. I presume all teams have these type of supporters. | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 08:00 - Jan 22 with 810 views | homer_123 |
| An interesting night in the stands on 18:33 - Jan 21 by BlueForYou |
From the games I've been to in person this season, it seems to me that we've gained a lot of possession from long balls upfield, the opposition not controlling the ball, & we get a toe in & get possession, & away we go. I've seen Clarke, Matusiwa, Philogene, Clarke, & others all do this. So it is perfectly possible for the long ball upfield to work, but as in a lot of football tactics, you can't get away with that every time. Faffing about with it brings a press which opens up space behind, as we all know. The problem with faffing is that we often aren't very good at it & ultimately it's bloody embarrassing & unnecessary to give away goals in that fashion. It takes more than one tactic to win a football game. I would faff with it no more than 20% of the time. |
"The problem with faffing is that we often aren't very good at it & ultimately it's bloody embarrassing & unnecessary to give away goals in that fashion."
This speaks to a wider point. It isn't faffing around. There is a clear and obvious purpose to it. By playing out from the back, we invite teams onto us (a press). Whether that press comes straight away (once Walton has passed to Dara or Kipre) or whether it's on the second or third pass (Davis, Matsi, Furlong) is immaterial. What that press does is then create space to play through the lines (old skool money - passing forward). There is a method here - it's not passing for the sake or passing and with no intent.
There is no getting away from the fact that there is an inherent risk with this approach - if we lose possession invariably it is closer to our goal and we are 'more' likely to concede if we lose possession in our defensive third.
That said, KM clearly works on the basis that the pro's outweigh the cons. And, two promotions and possible third clearly backs that up. Take Tues night in isolation. We lost possession a few times playing out but we didn't concede.
A further observation. Statistically, you are significantly less likely to lose possession making a 5, 10 or 20 yard pass compared with a 50 to 60 yard longer ball. As I said in my post, we are starting to go more direct and it works but you need to be strategic otherwise we give away possession too often.
I agree, it takes more than single tactic to win matches and we have different approaches. However, for us under KM, playing out demonstrably works, is clearly effective and continues to do so.
My final point remains, I struggle to see how anyone comes away from PR on Tues and can say they haven't been entertained. | |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 08:09 - Jan 22 with 805 views | StokieBlue |
| An interesting night in the stands on 18:33 - Jan 21 by BlueForYou |
From the games I've been to in person this season, it seems to me that we've gained a lot of possession from long balls upfield, the opposition not controlling the ball, & we get a toe in & get possession, & away we go. I've seen Clarke, Matusiwa, Philogene, Clarke, & others all do this. So it is perfectly possible for the long ball upfield to work, but as in a lot of football tactics, you can't get away with that every time. Faffing about with it brings a press which opens up space behind, as we all know. The problem with faffing is that we often aren't very good at it & ultimately it's bloody embarrassing & unnecessary to give away goals in that fashion. It takes more than one tactic to win a football game. I would faff with it no more than 20% of the time. |
Yet with this "faffing" we have conceded the least goals in the league and are the second highest scorers.
Given that I'm happy to stick with the "faffing" rather than booting it long 80% of the time.
Occasional mistakes will happen but it clearly works far more than it fails.
SB |  | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 08:33 - Jan 22 with 781 views | roblenton |
| An interesting night in the stands on 08:09 - Jan 22 by StokieBlue |
Yet with this "faffing" we have conceded the least goals in the league and are the second highest scorers.
Given that I'm happy to stick with the "faffing" rather than booting it long 80% of the time.
Occasional mistakes will happen but it clearly works far more than it fails.
SB |
Only playing devils advocate here as tbh I agree with the post. Couple of points
1 - the passing from the back does seem to be slower than in previous champ season and we allow opposition too much time to get set. Maybe it’s just me getting slower 🤣
2 - would be nice to sometimes mix it up more so we don’t get totally predictable and if we are drawing with 5 to go and need to get the ball downfield quicker for a winning goal | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 08:40 - Jan 22 with 778 views | redrickstuhaart |
| An interesting night in the stands on 08:33 - Jan 22 by roblenton |
Only playing devils advocate here as tbh I agree with the post. Couple of points
1 - the passing from the back does seem to be slower than in previous champ season and we allow opposition too much time to get set. Maybe it’s just me getting slower 🤣
2 - would be nice to sometimes mix it up more so we don’t get totally predictable and if we are drawing with 5 to go and need to get the ball downfield quicker for a winning goal |
Anyone who has watched the side knows it is already mixed up.
As for the old cliche about getting it forward in the last 5? If our prospects of a goal are higher by making space with passes, that doesnt change just because its the end of the game. | |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 09:00 - Jan 22 with 759 views | Churchman |
| An interesting night in the stands on 09:41 - Jan 21 by NthQldITFC |
What sort of age are these moaners? I wonder if there's less grass roots football played these days and more people who just don't have a first hand experience of actually playing the game? Or whether a generation or more now of sofa-dwellers brought up on compelling, unrealistic video games might have a similar lack of understanding?
Probably more basic than that in that the underlying expectations of our flaccid, head down, self-obsessed, short attention span society these days precludes any kind of real understanding of anything much at all. Apart from betting, TikTok, charlie, angsty self-promotion and masturbation.
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That second paragraph made me laugh. Agree with the first one too.
I think we live in an age of entitlement, selfishness, FM25, short attention span and ‘want’. Playing the game? People these days don’t as much, but the nappyfillers are not just the preserve of the sizeable percentage on here (who we haven’t seen for a while blessing us with their certainties, strangely).
The last few seasons, I got tired of the miserable old git that sat next to me moaning about everything and even players who weren’t on the pitch. Some of the fossils behind were no better. I love the old days of Mariner, Wark and the gang, but ffs it’s now and tomorrow when you go to a game. Try and engage with it and even enjoy it when we are rolling teams over like the last two.
But nope, Harry Clarke is crp, why are we playing Burns, Woolfenden is nothing like Hunter. ‘Hit it long!’ When it was hit long and lost, ‘play it short’.
I moved seats for this season. I’m getting far less of that and actually have some sensible chats and debates. |  | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 10:55 - Jan 22 with 713 views | homer_123 |
| An interesting night in the stands on 08:33 - Jan 22 by roblenton |
Only playing devils advocate here as tbh I agree with the post. Couple of points
1 - the passing from the back does seem to be slower than in previous champ season and we allow opposition too much time to get set. Maybe it’s just me getting slower 🤣
2 - would be nice to sometimes mix it up more so we don’t get totally predictable and if we are drawing with 5 to go and need to get the ball downfield quicker for a winning goal |
On point 1. There is a reason it 'feels' slower...
Take Blackburn Tuesday night. They deliberately didn't press the first pass - so the ball in Dara and Kirpe isn't pressed. Blackburn sat - at that point, no press, difficult to play through as there is no space. So, Dara and Kipre wait to see if the press comes, it doesn't so they pass but obviously it 'feel's like they aren't doing anything or being slow - they aren't - they are waiting for the press.
Blackburn only pressed on the second or third pass, and that leaves less space to play through as they aren't pressing high (hence we saw some interceptions). Once we broke through though - the tempo and passing pace increased.
More teams this season are not pressing as high, ergo, we can't play as quickly as we did a couple of years ago where teams pressed high and immediately.
Tempo and change of pace is an important factor in football. | |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 21:43 - Jan 22 with 617 views | SitfcB |
| An interesting night in the stands on 14:36 - Jan 21 by Vaughan8 |
I definitely think we need to learn better when to just hit it long, especially if we are going to go up. Sometimes its like Walton will be fined if he hits it long!  .
Playing out from the back is the "modern" way and we all should be used to it by now. But we are allowed to clear it long if and when we are in danger, which I think we don't always do.
A better championship team probably scores one of those gifts last night and 1-1 is a totally different game.
Regarding entertainment, this season clearly isn't as entertaining as our previous championship season which i guess is the reason for not being entertained?!?
Last night was enjoyable, but Bristol barely creating anything themselves last night, the game just kind of floated to the end, so for me, not the most entertaining, but definitely not the worse game (even this season). |
One of those gifts? There was only one, the Kipre one. |  |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 08:04 - Jan 23 with 521 views | StokieBlue |
| An interesting night in the stands on 08:33 - Jan 22 by roblenton |
Only playing devils advocate here as tbh I agree with the post. Couple of points
1 - the passing from the back does seem to be slower than in previous champ season and we allow opposition too much time to get set. Maybe it’s just me getting slower 🤣
2 - would be nice to sometimes mix it up more so we don’t get totally predictable and if we are drawing with 5 to go and need to get the ball downfield quicker for a winning goal |
I don't think the last championship season is comparable to this one.
In that season teams didn't take us as seriously and pressed on more leaving more gaps to pass through. Now teams take us much more seriously and are much more defensive so there are immediately those gaps to quickly progress through.
I would also argue that in that season we were much more on the edge, lots of high scoring close matches and that style of play simply didn't work in the PL as we saw. I think KM is building a team and style that will hopefully fair better in the PL.
I would also say we do mix it up, we occasionally go long and that's probably enough.
SB | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 09:43 - Jan 23 with 459 views | N2_Blue |
I really despair some of the comments on this thread regarding negativityto how we play, faffing at the back and perceived entertainment
I geuninely think some people don't get football and different ways of playing and what it's trying to achieve. Homer's point about it seeming slow passing from the back on Tuesday is excellent. If there is no dynamic press it will seem slower as our back line try to draw opposition up the pitch or move them around.
Slow from the back aginst a team that isn't pressing should not be confused with aimless side to side passing. That was a hallmark of Lambert teams giving us high posession but meaningless football. We don't do that under Mckenna, and aditionaly I've always thought Mckenna's teams/football as being quite mixed, we go long a fair bit too but in a measured way. The goal v balckburn was a perfect example, ball from Walton into Hirst on half way, Nunez picked up and the move was quick and dynamic and led to a goal.
I genuinely think some people would be be better off following a different sport/interest if they don't like us playing as we do or were not entertained by Tuesday night. I thorougly enjoyed it and the performance. Though we were excellent against a decent side.
It's like me with American football. I genuinely don't get it, the tactical intricacies and don't enjoy it.....so i choose not to follow it.
If people are only entertained by gung ho football, end to end play and like 4-3 type games, then you're following the wrong sport because those games are few and far between and not the norm. Top tier football is a little more nuanced than that. |  |
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| Gridiron on 09:57 - Jan 23 with 443 views | Dyland |
| An interesting night in the stands on 09:43 - Jan 23 by N2_Blue |
I really despair some of the comments on this thread regarding negativityto how we play, faffing at the back and perceived entertainment
I geuninely think some people don't get football and different ways of playing and what it's trying to achieve. Homer's point about it seeming slow passing from the back on Tuesday is excellent. If there is no dynamic press it will seem slower as our back line try to draw opposition up the pitch or move them around.
Slow from the back aginst a team that isn't pressing should not be confused with aimless side to side passing. That was a hallmark of Lambert teams giving us high posession but meaningless football. We don't do that under Mckenna, and aditionaly I've always thought Mckenna's teams/football as being quite mixed, we go long a fair bit too but in a measured way. The goal v balckburn was a perfect example, ball from Walton into Hirst on half way, Nunez picked up and the move was quick and dynamic and led to a goal.
I genuinely think some people would be be better off following a different sport/interest if they don't like us playing as we do or were not entertained by Tuesday night. I thorougly enjoyed it and the performance. Though we were excellent against a decent side.
It's like me with American football. I genuinely don't get it, the tactical intricacies and don't enjoy it.....so i choose not to follow it.
If people are only entertained by gung ho football, end to end play and like 4-3 type games, then you're following the wrong sport because those games are few and far between and not the norm. Top tier football is a little more nuanced than that. |
I'm the same. Never got into it because I don't understand the intracacies and haven't grown up with it. Sometime in the late 90s I was in New York for a few weeks and spent some time watching it on the telly with friends who talked incessantly about the tactics and what have you, and it was qukte enjoyable. Could have been the beer and pot though. |  |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 14:55 - Jan 23 with 353 views | Crawfordsboot |
| An interesting night in the stands on 09:41 - Jan 21 by NthQldITFC |
What sort of age are these moaners? I wonder if there's less grass roots football played these days and more people who just don't have a first hand experience of actually playing the game? Or whether a generation or more now of sofa-dwellers brought up on compelling, unrealistic video games might have a similar lack of understanding?
Probably more basic than that in that the underlying expectations of our flaccid, head down, self-obsessed, short attention span society these days precludes any kind of real understanding of anything much at all. Apart from betting, TikTok, charlie, angsty self-promotion and masturbation.
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Love it - Flaccid, Head Down and Masturbation all in the one post!
😂😂😂 |  | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 17:23 - Jan 23 with 300 views | Vaughan8 |
| An interesting night in the stands on 21:43 - Jan 22 by SitfcB |
One of those gifts? There was only one, the Kipre one. |
Maybe. I remember tham having a few decent chances but maybe they created thew others. I thought there was on second half.
Even if they took that one in the first half, its 1-1 and a totally different game. The point still stands.
The other chances would have been finished too.
I think the defence is decent in the league, but they do give away some very easy chances. Its more the others bad finishing that doesn't punish us. They would be finished off in the Premier League which we found out last season. I guess we deal with that as and when....! | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 17:42 - Jan 23 with 273 views | FrimleyBlue |
| An interesting night in the stands on 17:23 - Jan 23 by Vaughan8 |
Maybe. I remember tham having a few decent chances but maybe they created thew others. I thought there was on second half.
Even if they took that one in the first half, its 1-1 and a totally different game. The point still stands.
The other chances would have been finished too.
I think the defence is decent in the league, but they do give away some very easy chances. Its more the others bad finishing that doesn't punish us. They would be finished off in the Premier League which we found out last season. I guess we deal with that as and when....! |
We are still one of the best for xga.. that wouldn't be possible if they kept giving away easy chances. |  |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 18:17 - Jan 23 with 239 views | north_stand77 |
The people behind us in the Upper North really spoil the match for us.
All we can hear all game is them shouting 'Get rid' or 'Idiots!' at the top of their voices.
We've actually scored from playing out from the back several times this season already. |  | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 10:58 - Jan 24 with 130 views | brushhand |
| An interesting night in the stands on 11:23 - Jan 21 by wischip |
I can't get my head around this. If you don't like the style of play and sitting 2nd in a division gunning for promotion then stop going, give up your season ticket. I'm sure there are plenty of others who would love to go but can't get a ticket. |
There's been a seat next to me available all season, In the sbr lower. | | | |
| An interesting night in the stands on 11:09 - Jan 24 with 121 views | Benters |
I must admit I’m not a fan of playing out from the back,it often goes Pete tong.
Not just from Towen even the top teams hash it up at times. |  |
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| An interesting night in the stands on 12:20 - Jan 24 with 94 views | Vic |
| An interesting night in the stands on 11:09 - Jan 24 by Benters |
I must admit I’m not a fan of playing out from the back,it often goes Pete tong.
Not just from Towen even the top teams hash it up at times. |
'Often'? - I haven't checked, but I don't think the stats actually back that up Benters.
The fact that we have the 2nd meanest defence in this league and are among the highest scorers suggest that it goes more right than wrong.
Prove me wrong! |  |
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