Forum | Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day 14:36 - Aug 24 with 10288 views

According to EADT/KOA.

Looks like a bit of a standoff and obviously we need to pivot if Leverkusen won't meet us a bit closer to the middle.

Crucial 24-48 hours on this one, you would imagine.

The fact they brought him on Saturday seems suggest we are still slightly under what they are prepared to let him go for. He is under contract until 2030 afterall!

[Post edited 24 Aug 14:38]

Poll:

Ok gut feeling then, promotion?

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:43 - Aug 24 with 2692 views

berkstractorboy

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:29 - Aug 24 by tonybied
Most goals come from some sort of error by the defending team, be that a misplaced pass, poor positioning, over committing on a break etc. The more important thing to judge a team on, is their ability to take advantage of that, which we did perfectly on Saturday.

I agree with that and thats partly in my point about 2 seasons ago, we may not have taken advantage of any of those errors let alone both! Midfield is so crucial, a real talent like Palacios in there could be so crucial for us for when an Enciso or Fatawu has an off day(s).

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:44 - Aug 24 with 2692 views

DarkBrandon

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:40 - Aug 24 by ThatMuhrenCross
Agree with this. If we've got £30m left to spend, I'd spend it on the central midfield. The defence and striker "back-up" options can be free agents if they have to be. That CM is so, so crucial at this level.

Really? Have we all decided based on one game that Emersonn is going to be our first choice striker this season?

It was obviously a very good game, but a week ago I think everyone expected him to be on the bench more often than not.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:54 - Aug 24 with 2609 views

bsw72

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:20 - Aug 24 by berkstractorboy

We shouldn't get too carried away with Sat. We did great and looked so much better than 2 years ago, but still the goals were from 2 Sunderland errors. Midfield is so crucial in the PL, we need some real magic and depth in that area of the squad. We've clearly identified him and seems to be a top target so why miss out for €2-3M as I think that is all it is based on what Leverkusen want as a base payment.

They were very much forced errors, caused by how we played and closed down - we weren't gifted the ball, we won it as they were caught out by our style of play.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:10 - Aug 24 with 2515 views

franz_tyson

I truly hope we'll focus on a good-fit striker as priority instead of Palacios.

Happy to move on from him and get the next cab on the rank.

This whole scenario seems not quite right. This guy's on a fortune wage-wise and, initially, we get rebuffed telling us (a) our offer's far too low and (b) he wouldn't even consider coming to a PL club as lowly as us. This has been going on for weeks now and we've increased the offer and, apparently, he's now at a stage where he can consider playing for us. Well that's nice. I've never felt comfortable with this as I don't think he really wants to come here. We're hardly Champions League material.

I know we have to be ambitious, but I've never really got it. Just doesn't fit. I'm feeling unsure just like I was when we got Phillips on loan.

-3

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:14 - Aug 24 with 2470 views

ernie

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:54 - Aug 24 by bsw72
They were very much forced errors, caused by how we played and closed down - we weren't gifted the ball, we won it as they were caught out by our style of play.

The first goal no one is anywhere near O’Nien he just chooses to pass the ball to Enciso from about 10 yards away. For the winner, Sindre is slowly jogging towards the centre back who then misplaces the pass to Lukic. Hardly forced errors at all. From the point of view of a Sunderland fan they are both sloppy mistakes.

-3

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:27 - Aug 24 with 2357 views

Bellevue_Blue

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:10 - Aug 24 by franz_tyson

Not everything you read in the media is the truth .....

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:28 - Aug 24 with 2340 views

Guthrum

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:13 - Aug 24 by xrayspecs

Tell me you do not understand how Squad Cost Rules work without telling me you do not understand how Squad Cost Rules work.

There is a limit to how much we can invest in the squad this season, based on this years income. Sales of Hutchinson, Delap and Broadhead do not count towards what we can spend this season.

Btw, our wage bill was £75m in the PL two seasons ago, and was the lowest in the division by a distance. I would expect it to be around £100m this season.

Turnover in 2024-25 was £155m. It's only going to be increased from that this season. Transfer fees within the year (e.g. Hutchinson and Broadhead) will have counted for the pre-season assessment of projected income for the purpose of setting thresholds.

As a newly promoted club, we get extra headroom, allowing us to spend 115% of income, instead of 85% (in fact, for the first year, all clubs have that, but it can be eroded in subsequent years by overspending).

https://www.premierleague.com/

	Good Lord! Whatever is it?
Poll:	McCarthy: A More Nuanced Poll
Blog:	[Blog] For Those Panicking About the Lack of Transfer Activity

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:43 - Aug 24 with 2200 views

Garv

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:10 - Aug 24 by franz_tyson

Understand not feeling comfortable.

All I'll say is Sam Morsy didn't want to join us...

Poll:

If forced to sell one of the following this summer, who would you sell?

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:52 - Aug 24 with 2121 views

Wickets

I love it the way some advise Ashton to just pay it ! They have no idea how much we have been asked no idea how much we have offered and no experience of how these deals work .

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:56 - Aug 24 with 2089 views

_CliveBaker_

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:28 - Aug 24 by Guthrum

Revenues have got to be around £170m this year I guess. Wages were £77m last time, I'd think 50% higher this time around. Some notable departures since then like Phillips and McKenna, but the replacements wont be cheap and we've certainly got a more expensive squad now.

I reckon we've got £60m - £80m of net transfer fee amortisation to play with this season. Circa £25m will have been 'bought forward' players from the last 2 summers (Matusiwa, Greaves, DOS, McAteer, Egeli, Philogene, Clarke + bits and pieces). Would leave c. £40m - £50m from new signings, or £200m worth of signings on 4-5 year deals. Sales of players like Hirst and maybe Taylor will be really valuable.

Still in the region of £60m to spend I reckon, if we want to, at a guess.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:24 - Aug 24 with 1915 views

muccletonjoe

I don't think the club needs Palacios, we need a striker , we need a right back, those are the fundamental requirements, not some poster boy we can parade about as a headline signing which will use up vital resources.

-8

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:30 - Aug 24 with 1853 views

dirtyboy

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:24 - Aug 24 by muccletonjoe
I don't think the club needs Palacios, we need a striker , we need a right back, those are the fundamental requirements, not some poster boy we can parade about as a headline signing which will use up vital resources.

We need both plus a defender.

Wouldn't be shocked if we spent another £60m.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:59 - Aug 24 with 1706 views

SuffolkPunchFC

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 16:56 - Aug 24 by _CliveBaker_

This is my educated guess of where we are against SCR.

There's lots of detail behind this, including tracking player contracts to estimate amortization (back to 24/25 contracts), wage bill estimated from accounts (note that only player and manager wages count towards SCR costs, so you need to take out director and other staff costs that are in the accounts, plus contributions/pensions which are in the accounts - I'm assuming that last accounts player/manager wages at circa 60M).

Revenue is tough, but should increase by a fair margin based on growth over the past 4 years, A spread of £195M-200M shouldn't be unreasonable.

Based on this, we are within the SCR Green band right now, at ~75%, and way below the +30% allowed initial (although every bit we go over 85% will limit costs in subsequent years until balanced - however, we'd expect to be selling players for good sums by next summer).

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 18:03 - Aug 24 with 1676 views

strikalite

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:24 - Aug 24 by muccletonjoe
I don't think the club needs Palacios, we need a striker , we need a right back, those are the fundamental requirements, not some poster boy we can parade about as a headline signing which will use up vital resources.

Quattara is right back and the way GON talks about him don't be surprised if he's not used there, even at 20..

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 18:19 - Aug 24 with 1570 views

armchaircritic59

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 14:41 - Aug 24 by ThatMuhrenCross
Not too sure why we don't just pay the 30m euros they want for him. Honestly think a player of that quality is the difference between relegation battle and comfortable mid-table for us. For all it was a strong, gutsy performance Saturday, it's worth remembering we only held 30% possession, so clearly there's work to be done in terms of controlling the middle of the pitch.

I thought the original asking price from BL of £29.9m for a player who's got 41 caps for Argentina and just a few weeks back was on the bench in a World Cup Final, still only 27, was a pretty fair one. Yes he's had his injury problems, including a fractured spine back in 2020 ( ouch! ). Of course it makes some sense to see if we can get them to lower the fee a bit, as that would free up just a little bit more for the likes of a striker etc, which is an essential. Time will tell.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 19:42 - Aug 24 with 1373 views

_CliveBaker_

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:59 - Aug 24 by SuffolkPunchFC

This is my educated guess of where we are against SCR.

That looks about right and a similar ballpark to my assumption.

I think wages will be higher though, in the region of £100m when all said and done based on the fact it was £77m last time and that was a real outlier at the bottom. I’d be surprised if this squad isn’t at least 30% more expensive than that one.

I make your £60m transfer amortisation about right though, perhaps higher by deadline depending on our appetite to increase the SCR %. I believe under PL rules clubs can go to 115% this season, we might not want to do that but I think it’ll be north of 85%. Another £50m of signings on 5 year deals gets that to £70m.

[Post edited 24 Aug 19:49]

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 19:48 - Aug 24 with 1343 views

SWLondonBlue93

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 15:44 - Aug 24 by DarkBrandon
Really? Have we all decided based on one game that Emersonn is going to be our first choice striker this season? It was obviously a very good game, but a week ago I think everyone expected him to be on the bench more often than not.

And even if Emersonn does turn out to be our first-choice striker, we'll need someone who can come off the bench or replaces him when injured/suspended. Based on the limited info we have, Emersonn to Akpom is a much bigger downgrade than, for example, Lukic to Matusiwa.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 19:54 - Aug 24 with 1293 views

britbiker

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 14:57 - Aug 24 by TripSwitch

I really really hope we get him. Just seems to be the big signing we've been building towards. For all that Lukic, Azor and Luis look brilliant signings to give the defence great cover, we really could do with the box to box metronome to help us in games where we are trying to box a team in to build attacking pressure.

Palacios and Delap on top of who we've already brought in would be a 9 or 10/10 transfer window in my eyes and I'm confident that provided key players stay fit we would have enough to stay up.

[Post edited 24 Aug 14:57]

Still have a couple of loans available if needed. Would come with hefty loan fees probably and likely already prem.players so salaries of size.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 20:11 - Aug 24 with 1188 views

SuffolkPunchFC

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 19:42 - Aug 24 by _CliveBaker_

[Post edited 24 Aug 19:49]

The £77M wage cost you’re referring to includes a lot that doesn’t count towards SCR. Over £10M social security costs, and wages for 340 employees (including directors), which can easily account for another £7M. So it’s going to be far closer to the £60M I’m using as a baseline, than the £77M.

So I’m allowing for it to increase by as much as 50%.

The 115% you mention is the +30% allowance I refer to, an is the top end for Red SCR. I agree we’ll push the Green threshold, which does give us a fair amount of headroom to make additional signings without selling a big ticket player.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 20:53 - Aug 24 with 1021 views

_CliveBaker_

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 20:11 - Aug 24 by SuffolkPunchFC

I think the £77.1m refers to playing staff salaries only, p1 of the accounts states ‘playing wages increased to £77.1m’. I presume non playing wages are within other operating expenses which totals £132m (and will include the £77.1m).

That £77m does include social security costs, but surely they’re included within a SCR calculation, it would be odd if they’re not.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 21:04 - Aug 24 with 952 views

SuffolkPunchFC

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 20:53 - Aug 24 by _CliveBaker_
I think the £77.1m refers to playing staff salaries only, p1 of the accounts states ‘playing wages increased to £77.1m’. I presume non playing wages are within other operating expenses which totals £132m (and will include the £77.1m). That £77m does include social security costs, but surely they’re included within a SCR calculation, it would be odd if they’re not.

Take a look at note 7 of the accounts. This details £77M and 369 employees related to these costs. That’s ~340 that are not players, including all the directors.

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 21:19 - Aug 24 with 896 views

_CliveBaker_

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 21:04 - Aug 24 by SuffolkPunchFC
Take a look at note 7 of the accounts. This details £77M and 369 employees related to these costs. That’s ~340 that are not players, including all the directors.

Thats fair. I think the comment on p1 is misleading, as note 7 does appear to relate to all employees.

I’ll revise my estimate to £90m (assuming NIC’s count in the calc).

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 22:31 - Aug 24 with 718 views

Blooos

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:24 - Aug 24 by muccletonjoe
I don't think the club needs Palacios, we need a striker , we need a right back, those are the fundamental requirements, not some poster boy we can parade about as a headline signing which will use up vital resources.

Baffles me there are people saying things like this on here. Palacios possible going to be our biggest ever signing and yet you’re moaning about it. We were in league 1 4 years ago

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 01:39 - Aug 25 with 554 views

Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 17:24 - Aug 24 by muccletonjoe
I don't think the club needs Palacios, we need a striker , we need a right back, those are the fundamental requirements, not some poster boy we can parade about as a headline signing which will use up vital resources.

What a god awful take.

Poll:

Ok gut feeling then, promotion?

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 01:51 - Aug 25 with 542 views

Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior

Palacios in the balance and unlikely to go down to deadline day on 14:41 - Aug 24 by ThatMuhrenCross
Not too sure why we don't just pay the 30m euros they want for him. Honestly think a player of that quality is the difference between relegation battle and comfortable mid-table for us. For all it was a strong, gutsy performance Saturday, it's worth remembering we only held 30% possession, so clearly there's work to be done in terms of controlling the middle of the pitch.

I know, would be gutting if it fell through now!

Poll:

Ok gut feeling then, promotion?

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread