| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 16:23 - Mar 11 with 9847 views | StokieBlue |
Greece closed all their schools with only 89 cases. Poland did the same with about 40 cases and now Ukraine has done the same with 1 case.
"Another European country is taking drastic measures to curb the spread of coronavirus. Despite only having one confirmed case to date, Ukraine has said it is closing all educational institutions (which also includes nurseries and universities) from tomorrow until 3 April, the Kyiv Post reports.
It also says that gatherings of more than 200 people will be banned. The country has only tested 43 people, 41 of whom have tested negative, with one still being examined."
Do people think we are being too cautious with making big decisions or is the alleged "data-driven" decisions made by the government more sensible?
Closing the schools after 1 case seems very draconian but it might prevent a much bigger outbreak.
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:26 - Mar 11 with 3802 views | lowhouseblue |
isn't the uk unusual compared with countries like greece in that we have much higher labour market participation and therefore less capacity to deal with kids not being at school. closing schools here would have a much greater impact because so many parents would have to stop work? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:30 - Mar 11 with 3768 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
I don't know anywhere near as much as you about this SB, but isn't this all about trying to leave it as long as possible before it peaks to allow our health services to deal with the fallout?
1 case in Suffolk, 1 in Norfolk and 0 in Cambridgeshire as of yesterday. I get this is serious and it's going to get worse and lots of people are going to inevitably die, but I suppose the best chance we have is timing it right so that people don't all sit indoors for 2 weeks going crazy and then ignore all the safety advice when it's at risk of peaking.
I don't know much about the experts in these other countries but this virus is one of those occasions where I'm glad we have so many world class professionals. Whether we have the best government to act on their advice though is another matter.
If we shut down the country tomorrow for example, what happens to the virus once people infected have fought it and a percentage have passed away. Is it largely then defeated if it can no longer transmit or do we risk having to shut down the country again in a few weeks if it gets back to this level?
Seems to me that we can do everything in our power, shut everything down, effectively kill the virus dead here and then as soon as we are open for business another person from a country that's not managed it as effectively comes to the UK and it all begins again. Or even a person who has been in contact with a person! [Post edited 11 Mar 2020 16:35]
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:31 - Mar 11 with 3754 views | StokieBlue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:26 - Mar 11 by lowhouseblue |
isn't the uk unusual compared with countries like greece in that we have much higher labour market participation and therefore less capacity to deal with kids not being at school. closing schools here would have a much greater impact because so many parents would have to stop work? |
Certainly the practicalities in the UK would be difficult and it would be a right pain for many.
To be clear I am not advocating closing schools, I've not seen the data so couldn't make an informed opinion, just seems to me that some other countries are going very early with this, in the case of Ukraine it looks very early indeed.
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:35 - Mar 11 with 3720 views | hampstead_blue |
Just come back from work where I've heard of a shed load of planning going into the outbreak.
The military are going into full-on civil contingency planning. Loads of Field Hospitals are getting warmed up and readied. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:36 - Mar 11 with 3713 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:30 - Mar 11 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
I don't know anywhere near as much as you about this SB, but isn't this all about trying to leave it as long as possible before it peaks to allow our health services to deal with the fallout?
1 case in Suffolk, 1 in Norfolk and 0 in Cambridgeshire as of yesterday. I get this is serious and it's going to get worse and lots of people are going to inevitably die, but I suppose the best chance we have is timing it right so that people don't all sit indoors for 2 weeks going crazy and then ignore all the safety advice when it's at risk of peaking.
I don't know much about the experts in these other countries but this virus is one of those occasions where I'm glad we have so many world class professionals. Whether we have the best government to act on their advice though is another matter.
If we shut down the country tomorrow for example, what happens to the virus once people infected have fought it and a percentage have passed away. Is it largely then defeated if it can no longer transmit or do we risk having to shut down the country again in a few weeks if it gets back to this level?
Seems to me that we can do everything in our power, shut everything down, effectively kill the virus dead here and then as soon as we are open for business another person from a country that's not managed it as effectively comes to the UK and it all begins again. Or even a person who has been in contact with a person! [Post edited 11 Mar 2020 16:35]
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It seems that lengthening the peak to try and help the NHS cope is one of the main justifications.
We'd be naive not to assume there's also a financial consideration in this; either the government worried about the impacts of a downturn on their political standing or lobbying from certain elements to keep going come what may. [Post edited 11 Mar 2020 16:39]
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:39 - Mar 11 with 3691 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:36 - Mar 11 by Swansea_Blue |
It seems that lengthening the peak to try and help the NHS cope is one of the main justifications.
We'd be naive not to assume there's also a financial consideration in this; either the government worried about the impacts of a downturn on their political standing or lobbying from certain elements to keep going come what may. [Post edited 11 Mar 2020 16:39]
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Almost certainly.
For once the Politicians may be thinking of us and not themselves as well.
Even if we all took time off work to look after kids with the schools closing, businesses either pay staff in full for no work, meaning some would be crippled as no profits coming in at the same time or they wouldn't pay us meaning mortgages getting missed, people going hungry.
It's an absolute nightmare economically and in fairness that has to play a massive part too. Whilst they want to no doubt limit the virus and keep us all healthy, you cannot always take the best medical approach if we are all going to be healthy and financially ruined at the end of it, even if health rightly should be all that matters. | |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:39 - Mar 11 with 3686 views | Ryorry |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:35 - Mar 11 by hampstead_blue |
Just come back from work where I've heard of a shed load of planning going into the outbreak.
The military are going into full-on civil contingency planning. Loads of Field Hospitals are getting warmed up and readied. |
Time for a re-run of some of the *MASH* series! |  |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:42 - Mar 11 with 3653 views | StokieBlue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:39 - Mar 11 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Almost certainly.
For once the Politicians may be thinking of us and not themselves as well.
Even if we all took time off work to look after kids with the schools closing, businesses either pay staff in full for no work, meaning some would be crippled as no profits coming in at the same time or they wouldn't pay us meaning mortgages getting missed, people going hungry.
It's an absolute nightmare economically and in fairness that has to play a massive part too. Whilst they want to no doubt limit the virus and keep us all healthy, you cannot always take the best medical approach if we are all going to be healthy and financially ruined at the end of it, even if health rightly should be all that matters. |
RBS and Lloyds have already said people self-isolating or with the virus or unable to work due to the virus will be able to take a 3 month deferral on their mortgages. I am sure the other banks will follow suit.
The counter thinking is that closing the schools might stop the virus getting into the exponential growth phase by cutting down the possible vectors of infection. If it gets to that phase it'll inevitably end in a situation like the one in Italy where everything is locked down.
It's a tough call and there are bad outcomes whichever one is taken.
SB | |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:43 - Mar 11 with 3648 views | Swansea_Blue |
I wonder if it's us that's being referenced by the WHO (who've just upgraded this to an official pandemic):
16:41
'Lack of resolve' in some countries, says WHO
Tedros says it is a “crisis that affects every sector”. The WHO director-general says:
This is everybody’s business.
He says looking at the number of cases reported and number of countries affected “doesn’t tell the full story”.
All countries can still change the course of this pandemic.
Swift action can prevent larger clusters and community transmission and even if they fail to do so “they can turn the tide”.
The challenge is not whether countries can change the course of the virus but whether they will, Tedros says.
He says come countries are struggling with a lack of capacity but says some are struggling with a lack of resolve.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-update-live-news- | |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:48 - Mar 11 with 3595 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:42 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue |
RBS and Lloyds have already said people self-isolating or with the virus or unable to work due to the virus will be able to take a 3 month deferral on their mortgages. I am sure the other banks will follow suit.
The counter thinking is that closing the schools might stop the virus getting into the exponential growth phase by cutting down the possible vectors of infection. If it gets to that phase it'll inevitably end in a situation like the one in Italy where everything is locked down.
It's a tough call and there are bad outcomes whichever one is taken.
SB |
What it has brought into focus for me is, after the whole Brexit debacle and feeling that Boris is a clown cut from the same cloth as Trump, that when you look at the response from us and the availability of facts and their attitude, health system and the widespread false information and propaganda, that we are still some way ahead of them in dealing with stuff like this.
As you say there are bad outcomes regardless. I'm just thankful that, despite a lot of moaning about individual politicians, we are not entirely profit driven like the USA and decisions taken here seem to be for the good of all of our health. | |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:49 - Mar 11 with 3589 views | Darth_Koont |
Because the spread is more about local social behaviour than virology itself then it's reassuring that there are different responses to take into account how different societies work and how responses can be best managed with the resources available.
I think the US is struggling based on the nonsense coming from the politicians at the top and the lack of preparedness on the ground.
In the UK, so far at least, it seems that we're doing the right things and listening to the experts/taking UK reality into account. |  |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:50 - Mar 11 with 3590 views | hype313 |
Personally I think this thing will overrun us and we will not have any choice in locking down the country, I get that it might cripple the economy but these are unchartered waters for everyone, the notion of finance needs to take a back seat when it comes to human lives on such a large scale. |  |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:51 - Mar 11 with 3580 views | footers |
My housemate's working from home completely now as someone in his office has it. Can feel it creeping ever closer... But ho hum, will just sit it out in the little toilet roll fort I've built.
One thing I don't really understand is closing the schools. Thought saucepan lids weren't really affected? |  |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:54 - Mar 11 with 3535 views | StokieBlue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:51 - Mar 11 by footers |
My housemate's working from home completely now as someone in his office has it. Can feel it creeping ever closer... But ho hum, will just sit it out in the little toilet roll fort I've built.
One thing I don't really understand is closing the schools. Thought saucepan lids weren't really affected? |
They don't seem to be affected in that they can fight it off but they can certainly carry it and spread it around and kids are brilliant at putting their mucky little hands absolutely everywhere.
It gets passed around the school, back to the parents and then around wherever the parents go.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:54 - Mar 11 with 3532 views | hampstead_blue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:39 - Mar 11 by Ryorry |
Time for a re-run of some of the *MASH* series! |
I know.
It's a shame I'm not eligible for a recall. I'd be Clinger! | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:57 - Mar 11 with 3503 views | hampstead_blue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:51 - Mar 11 by footers |
My housemate's working from home completely now as someone in his office has it. Can feel it creeping ever closer... But ho hum, will just sit it out in the little toilet roll fort I've built.
One thing I don't really understand is closing the schools. Thought saucepan lids weren't really affected? |
Are you letting on the secret of why loo roll is in such demand?
It's the only known barrier to infection!
Does your fort have a moat with carp in it? | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:58 - Mar 11 with 3503 views | BloomBlue |
In terms of a lockdown the problem is its impossible to lockdown completely people need food etc and people get fed up and start moving around outside. The theory is that boredom kicks in after 4-5 days so if you lockdown too early at the point you really need to lockdown people have already hit that 'moving around' phase and you lose the full effect of a lockdown. Some experts said they thought Italy locked the North down too early.
In China it was different because if you move outside the authorities can do what they want with you and no questions asked.
But I would assume all lessons each country is learning is coming into the WHA and that's feeding into decisions by the other countries.
I'm not sure there is a one size fits all in this situation.
Plus how will I get to the pub if they lockdown |  | | |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:59 - Mar 11 with 3493 views | StokieBlue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:51 - Mar 11 by footers |
My housemate's working from home completely now as someone in his office has it. Can feel it creeping ever closer... But ho hum, will just sit it out in the little toilet roll fort I've built.
One thing I don't really understand is closing the schools. Thought saucepan lids weren't really affected? |
Seems some people want to close them although I suspect the majority are people without kids who don't need to find childcare and want an easier commute:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300403
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:03 - Mar 11 with 3450 views | footers |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:57 - Mar 11 by hampstead_blue |
Are you letting on the secret of why loo roll is in such demand?
It's the only known barrier to infection!
Does your fort have a moat with carp in it? |
Willing to sell rolls at an inflated price so long as it doesn't damage the structural integrity of the fort.
We seem fairly well stocked round these parts anyway, not much panic buying going on, thankfully. Well, aside from hand sanitiser... | |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:04 - Mar 11 with 3439 views | footers |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 16:59 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue |
Seems some people want to close them although I suspect the majority are people without kids who don't need to find childcare and want an easier commute:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300403
SB |
I saw that many NYC schools were switching to remote learning for the foreseeable. Wonder how many UK schools would be equipped for that? Otherwise all the kids will just be out causing trouble, getting 'high' and posting on here, instead of furthering their education. | |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:05 - Mar 11 with 3425 views | StokieBlue |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:04 - Mar 11 by footers |
I saw that many NYC schools were switching to remote learning for the foreseeable. Wonder how many UK schools would be equipped for that? Otherwise all the kids will just be out causing trouble, getting 'high' and posting on here, instead of furthering their education. |
I think the universities are doing that - not see it for schools but not been keeping up with what the US is doing (not an awful lot it seems).
This place is an education.....
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:05 - Mar 11 with 3427 views | Harry_Palmer |
This is such an unprecedented situation that I guess nobody really knows, but I think the UK are taking the appropriate measures for the stage we are at. The countries you mention seem to be acting rather disproportionately.
I was listening to the Joe Rogan podcast at lunchtime with infectious disease expert Michael Osterholm. He made the point that closing Schools could be counter productive due to the fact that Children seem to be largely unaffected ( so far ) and the subsequent
childcare issues might result in taking healthcare workers away from where they are most needed. |  | | |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:11 - Mar 11 with 3366 views | gordon |
I find it difficult to understand how it's responsible for us (and other western countries with increasing levels of infection) to allow our residents still to be going on holidays / work trips to poorer countries, where the healthcare system isn't as resilient, and the outcomes could be even worse than here.
I'd think that an announcement that anyone with a trip booked to a low infection country, irrespective of whether they have insurance etc. can cancel and get full refund covered by the govt. would be a decent thing to do.
Obviously it's difficult to expect individuals to just sacrifice holidays off their own bat and lose money. |  | | |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:22 - Mar 11 with 3311 views | J2BLUE |
| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:11 - Mar 11 by gordon |
I find it difficult to understand how it's responsible for us (and other western countries with increasing levels of infection) to allow our residents still to be going on holidays / work trips to poorer countries, where the healthcare system isn't as resilient, and the outcomes could be even worse than here.
I'd think that an announcement that anyone with a trip booked to a low infection country, irrespective of whether they have insurance etc. can cancel and get full refund covered by the govt. would be a decent thing to do.
Obviously it's difficult to expect individuals to just sacrifice holidays off their own bat and lose money. |
My nan is 82 and going to Cyprus in 2 weeks. I really hope she doesn't go. I suspect it will be taken out of her hands by then though if we are two weeks behind Italy. |  |
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| The US and UK seem to be taking a much less draconian stance on Covid 19 on 17:29 - Mar 11 with 3263 views | Pecker |
Very difficult call this. If they do, it is seen as panic, if they don't, seen as irresponsible. I would close all school, cancel all leisure activities and ask people to only travel abroad if absolutely necessary. Over the top for most, but we have to get real and contain this potentially deadly virus. |  | | |
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