| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 20:52 - Aug 25 with 2372 views | StokieBlue |
Not often one can agree with Cummings but he's clearly talking "dangerous rubbish". His other quote is pretty much spot on as well:
"reads like a man whose epicly bad campaign has melted his brain and he's about to quit politics"
He has no qualifications to make an "emotional plea" to keep schools open, he's not a virologist, it's an appeal to authority fallacy.
He wouldn't have closed schools in March 2020, the exact time covid was ripping through places and we had no treatments and absolutely no immunity within the community. It would have been awful with covid spreading between classmates and then taken home to their families and vulnerable relatives which is why the scientists recommended closing the schools.
The culture wars are getting too much, experts aren't to be listened to as long as you can make an emotional plea. Hard to know what to say to that really.
SB |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 20:53 - Aug 25 with 2351 views | CaptainAhab |
Just saying whatever the old boy/blue rinse brigade Tory part members want to hear I presume. Weren't a lot of them anti-lockdown "libertarians"?
Him and Truss are in a race to the bottom |  | | |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 20:59 - Aug 25 with 2326 views | WD19 |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 20:53 - Aug 25 by CaptainAhab |
Just saying whatever the old boy/blue rinse brigade Tory part members want to hear I presume. Weren't a lot of them anti-lockdown "libertarians"?
Him and Truss are in a race to the bottom |
Nah, he has long since chucked in the towel and started positioning himself for the David Milliband, lob stones in the media from New York, role. |  | | |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:02 - Aug 25 with 2307 views | ElderGrizzly |
It appears to be a right wing fashion statement to do it.
Of course the fascists of the USA go further
[Post edited 25 Aug 2022 21:03]
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:07 - Aug 25 with 2287 views | Lord_Lucan |
He may be right in a way but it's easy to say that now.
Let's not forget, we heard about it being a thing in China and we never thought it would come here. Ironically I am pretty sure I caught it in China in the January as I was as sick as a dog - and I don't get ill. Fast forward a month and we were exhibiting at a trade show in Birmingham and on our stand was our supplier from Italy and a supplier from China. At this time Italy was starting to get hit but we never thought it would come to us.
And then - bang!
What the hell did we know about pandemics, no normal run of the mill Joe thought it would ever happen in The West.
So - we had no choice but to listen to the so called experts as government didn't have a scooby.
Ok, so we might be more prepared next time but who can say, we won't know what type of virus we are facing until the death count rises.
At the risk of awakening the doomsters, I think this was a handy wake up call. Now then, I know that people lost loved ones and that is tragic, I had a fit as feck friend die, he was a bloody man mountain.
Hooever - it could have been worse couldn't it. It isn't as if half the country died including thousands of kids.
Hopefully we will learn.
As for Sunak. Well, not sure what he's playing at really. He is probably the only man on the planet that thinks he is in with a shot. The only chance he has is if Truss dies. He should withdraw immediately so we can form a government. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:12 - Aug 25 with 2250 views | StokieBlue |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:07 - Aug 25 by Lord_Lucan |
He may be right in a way but it's easy to say that now.
Let's not forget, we heard about it being a thing in China and we never thought it would come here. Ironically I am pretty sure I caught it in China in the January as I was as sick as a dog - and I don't get ill. Fast forward a month and we were exhibiting at a trade show in Birmingham and on our stand was our supplier from Italy and a supplier from China. At this time Italy was starting to get hit but we never thought it would come to us.
And then - bang!
What the hell did we know about pandemics, no normal run of the mill Joe thought it would ever happen in The West.
So - we had no choice but to listen to the so called experts as government didn't have a scooby.
Ok, so we might be more prepared next time but who can say, we won't know what type of virus we are facing until the death count rises.
At the risk of awakening the doomsters, I think this was a handy wake up call. Now then, I know that people lost loved ones and that is tragic, I had a fit as feck friend die, he was a bloody man mountain.
Hooever - it could have been worse couldn't it. It isn't as if half the country died including thousands of kids.
Hopefully we will learn.
As for Sunak. Well, not sure what he's playing at really. He is probably the only man on the planet that thinks he is in with a shot. The only chance he has is if Truss dies. He should withdraw immediately so we can form a government. |
"He may be right in a way but it's easy to say that now."
He's not right, as you point out, he's looking at things outside the context of the time.
Letting a relatively unknown virus to which nobody has any immunity and to which the government has no available treatment disperse through schools and then get taken home to vulnerable people is a stupid thing to do and that is why SAGE and other experts all recommended to cut off that vector of transmission and close schools.
Without more information which wasn't available at the time it was the right call and one made independently by the scientific experts of many countries.
SB [Post edited 25 Aug 2022 21:16]
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:18 - Aug 25 with 2192 views | Oldsmoker |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:02 - Aug 25 by ElderGrizzly |
It appears to be a right wing fashion statement to do it.
Of course the fascists of the USA go further
[Post edited 25 Aug 2022 21:03]
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The US right-wing live in a different reality to everyone else.
Their recollection of the first year of Covid is different from what actually happened.
They have forgotten it was on Trumps watch.
They have forgotten that Trump ignored the advice from Fauci at first.
It was Trump who ordered the Lockdown - not Fauci.
But it's always someone elses fault - never theirs. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:18 - Aug 25 with 2197 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:12 - Aug 25 by StokieBlue |
"He may be right in a way but it's easy to say that now."
He's not right, as you point out, he's looking at things outside the context of the time.
Letting a relatively unknown virus to which nobody has any immunity and to which the government has no available treatment disperse through schools and then get taken home to vulnerable people is a stupid thing to do and that is why SAGE and other experts all recommended to cut off that vector of transmission and close schools.
Without more information which wasn't available at the time it was the right call and one made independently by the scientific experts of many countries.
SB [Post edited 25 Aug 2022 21:16]
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Yeah.
If you took the time to digest my post I very clearly said that it was easy to say that now and that we had no idea about pandemics and that we had no choice but to listen to the so called experts as government didn't have a scooby.
What's the altitude like Stokie? | |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:22 - Aug 25 with 2159 views | StokieBlue |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:18 - Aug 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Yeah.
If you took the time to digest my post I very clearly said that it was easy to say that now and that we had no idea about pandemics and that we had no choice but to listen to the so called experts as government didn't have a scooby.
What's the altitude like Stokie? |
If you look I actually edited my post - I meant to agree with you on the first line and then expand my point which is what I did with the edit.
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:25 - Aug 25 with 2124 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 20:52 - Aug 25 by StokieBlue |
Not often one can agree with Cummings but he's clearly talking "dangerous rubbish". His other quote is pretty much spot on as well:
"reads like a man whose epicly bad campaign has melted his brain and he's about to quit politics"
He has no qualifications to make an "emotional plea" to keep schools open, he's not a virologist, it's an appeal to authority fallacy.
He wouldn't have closed schools in March 2020, the exact time covid was ripping through places and we had no treatments and absolutely no immunity within the community. It would have been awful with covid spreading between classmates and then taken home to their families and vulnerable relatives which is why the scientists recommended closing the schools.
The culture wars are getting too much, experts aren't to be listened to as long as you can make an emotional plea. Hard to know what to say to that really.
SB |
It is easy to say that he wouldn't to appeal to the evil Tory supporter base who think any restrictions were an affront and we should have enjoyed piling the bodies high. Whether he would have actually acted like that in reality is a different question. In this case, I think it is simply an appeal to popularity. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:27 - Aug 25 with 2097 views | StokieBlue |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:25 - Aug 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It is easy to say that he wouldn't to appeal to the evil Tory supporter base who think any restrictions were an affront and we should have enjoyed piling the bodies high. Whether he would have actually acted like that in reality is a different question. In this case, I think it is simply an appeal to popularity. |
I would tend to agree, although he's claimed he made an emotional plea in March 2020 not to close schools.
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 22:53 - Aug 25 with 1760 views | BlueBadger |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:18 - Aug 25 by Oldsmoker |
The US right-wing live in a different reality to everyone else.
Their recollection of the first year of Covid is different from what actually happened.
They have forgotten it was on Trumps watch.
They have forgotten that Trump ignored the advice from Fauci at first.
It was Trump who ordered the Lockdown - not Fauci.
But it's always someone elses fault - never theirs. |
To be fair, you could remove the USA reference from your post and it would still be pretty accurate in describing the ongoing right wing weirdness over covid. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 23:13 - Aug 25 with 1712 views | Oldsmoker |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 22:53 - Aug 25 by BlueBadger |
To be fair, you could remove the USA reference from your post and it would still be pretty accurate in describing the ongoing right wing weirdness over covid. |
But no-one in the UK has threatened to throw Professor Chris Whitty across the Thames.
Ron Desantis is just being Macho when he threatens Fauci with throwing him over the Potomac river.
Our govt. style was to party while people died without their loved ones close. | |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 23:17 - Aug 25 with 1701 views | eireblue |
Hmmmm, that’s an interesting approach to take.
Is he the person that says things like, “no experts back your plan Lizzie”, in leadership debates? |  | | |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 00:14 - Aug 26 with 1556 views | factual_blue |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 23:17 - Aug 25 by eireblue |
Hmmmm, that’s an interesting approach to take.
Is he the person that says things like, “no experts back your plan Lizzie”, in leadership debates? |
It's saying that boris's government failed to provide any leadership during the pandemic. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 03:51 - Aug 26 with 1474 views | jontysnut |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 00:14 - Aug 26 by factual_blue |
It's saying that boris's government failed to provide any leadership during the pandemic. |
I look forward to the scientists views on politicians if and when the inquiry takes place. I don't think Vallance will hold back. |  | | |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. (n/t) on 06:47 - Aug 26 with 1414 views | SitfcB |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 21:07 - Aug 25 by Lord_Lucan |
He may be right in a way but it's easy to say that now.
Let's not forget, we heard about it being a thing in China and we never thought it would come here. Ironically I am pretty sure I caught it in China in the January as I was as sick as a dog - and I don't get ill. Fast forward a month and we were exhibiting at a trade show in Birmingham and on our stand was our supplier from Italy and a supplier from China. At this time Italy was starting to get hit but we never thought it would come to us.
And then - bang!
What the hell did we know about pandemics, no normal run of the mill Joe thought it would ever happen in The West.
So - we had no choice but to listen to the so called experts as government didn't have a scooby.
Ok, so we might be more prepared next time but who can say, we won't know what type of virus we are facing until the death count rises.
At the risk of awakening the doomsters, I think this was a handy wake up call. Now then, I know that people lost loved ones and that is tragic, I had a fit as feck friend die, he was a bloody man mountain.
Hooever - it could have been worse couldn't it. It isn't as if half the country died including thousands of kids.
Hopefully we will learn.
As for Sunak. Well, not sure what he's playing at really. He is probably the only man on the planet that thinks he is in with a shot. The only chance he has is if Truss dies. He should withdraw immediately so we can form a government. |
[Post edited 26 Aug 2022 8:09]
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 07:30 - Aug 26 with 1383 views | Steve_M |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 20:52 - Aug 25 by StokieBlue |
Not often one can agree with Cummings but he's clearly talking "dangerous rubbish". His other quote is pretty much spot on as well:
"reads like a man whose epicly bad campaign has melted his brain and he's about to quit politics"
He has no qualifications to make an "emotional plea" to keep schools open, he's not a virologist, it's an appeal to authority fallacy.
He wouldn't have closed schools in March 2020, the exact time covid was ripping through places and we had no treatments and absolutely no immunity within the community. It would have been awful with covid spreading between classmates and then taken home to their families and vulnerable relatives which is why the scientists recommended closing the schools.
The culture wars are getting too much, experts aren't to be listened to as long as you can make an emotional plea. Hard to know what to say to that really.
SB |
The two decisions Sunak had clear input into were Eat Out to Help Out and delaying the late 2020 lockdown. Both were disastrous in terms of the cases and deaths that resulted so it's quite likely he didn't want any restrictions back in March 2020 either. It's not a glowing endorsement of his own judgement is it?
Also, as pointed out on Twitter yesterday, by the time the government acted people had made their own decisions kids were being kept out of school, even the EFL and Premier League had paused matches. The government was lead to make a decision by the rest of the country as much as the scientists. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 08:26 - Aug 26 with 1297 views | ElephantintheRoom |
In a sense he’s right. A clique of stattos on the cobra committee came up with all sorts of doomsday scenarios none of which were acted on at the ‘right time’ whilst those same stattos ignored their own advice - as did the politicians charged with making unpleasant decisions based on modelling which historically was wildly inaccurate in previous viral infections.
It was not far off the blind leading the blind - you could make the same argument that self-serving politicians with limited grasp of reality, no attention to detail and no regard for the truth have too much power in such a situation | |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 09:03 - Aug 26 with 1247 views | StokieBlue |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 08:26 - Aug 26 by ElephantintheRoom |
In a sense he’s right. A clique of stattos on the cobra committee came up with all sorts of doomsday scenarios none of which were acted on at the ‘right time’ whilst those same stattos ignored their own advice - as did the politicians charged with making unpleasant decisions based on modelling which historically was wildly inaccurate in previous viral infections.
It was not far off the blind leading the blind - you could make the same argument that self-serving politicians with limited grasp of reality, no attention to detail and no regard for the truth have too much power in such a situation |
That's simply not true, you are essentially saying that an entire field of science don't know what they are talking about.
Up there with your usual standard of post I guess.
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 09:12 - Aug 26 with 1208 views | Swansea_Blue |
He's a cretin, and hopefully his catastrophic campaign will be the end of his career in positions where he's able to screw people over.
Govt pushed back against the advice most of the way, meaning delayed lockdowns and as a result longer lockdowns, sh*t messaging and a confused public, and god knows how many unnecessary deaths. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 09:18 - Aug 26 with 1183 views | jeera |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 09:12 - Aug 26 by Swansea_Blue |
He's a cretin, and hopefully his catastrophic campaign will be the end of his career in positions where he's able to screw people over.
Govt pushed back against the advice most of the way, meaning delayed lockdowns and as a result longer lockdowns, sh*t messaging and a confused public, and god knows how many unnecessary deaths. |
People are being revisionist as usual.
We had three weeks 'grace' as it were, during which Italians were begging other countries like ours to listen.
During that time when we should have been acting with the intent to limit the damage we had the likes of Johnson wandering around hospitals shaking hands and laughing about the fuss. Anyone pretending otherwise is a fecking idiot. |  |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 09:23 - Aug 26 with 1163 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 09:18 - Aug 26 by jeera |
People are being revisionist as usual.
We had three weeks 'grace' as it were, during which Italians were begging other countries like ours to listen.
During that time when we should have been acting with the intent to limit the damage we had the likes of Johnson wandering around hospitals shaking hands and laughing about the fuss. Anyone pretending otherwise is a fecking idiot. |
Dithering happened at the start of every wave didn't it. And then the schools fiasco too. Plius pushing infected people into care homes who were carriers and having a wave sweep through our most vulnerable people. Scientists were speaking up against this behaviour all the time.
Some things were obviously a learning exercise for everyone, but there was a lot wrong that was being pointed out at the time. | |
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| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 09:30 - Aug 26 with 1131 views | BlueBadger |
| Sunak says too much power given to scientists during Covid. on 07:30 - Aug 26 by Steve_M |
The two decisions Sunak had clear input into were Eat Out to Help Out and delaying the late 2020 lockdown. Both were disastrous in terms of the cases and deaths that resulted so it's quite likely he didn't want any restrictions back in March 2020 either. It's not a glowing endorsement of his own judgement is it?
Also, as pointed out on Twitter yesterday, by the time the government acted people had made their own decisions kids were being kept out of school, even the EFL and Premier League had paused matches. The government was lead to make a decision by the rest of the country as much as the scientists. |
Literally every time they made a decision in the interests of he wider good, it was because they were shamed into it. From lockdowns, to school meals. | |
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