| A post-Brexit solution? 16:22 - Feb 7 with 14472 views | Darth_Koont |
Brexit has caused a huge division in this country between Brexiteers and Remoaners.
So how to bring the two sides together when there's what one side thinks and believes going against what the other side thinks and believes?
We need to use objective facts to bring the two sides together. And discussions where facts are the currency not emotions or beliefs.
Alternative suggestions welcome.
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:31 - Feb 7 with 3826 views | Mullet |
This week's Moral Maze was fascinating. Essentially a load of Brexiteers saying "metropolitan elite called you all thick" alongside "we must remove labels and divisions" Portillo and the right wing columnist whose name I forget (Anne McElvoy?) were loving it.
It seems that bar one guy saying Scotland Wales and NI were ignored and being told to "shut up...majority blah" there was a sense that "we" should marginalise "radical remainers" and just get on with it.
I was astounded at where it went and how telling it was. |  |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:34 - Feb 7 with 3817 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:31 - Feb 7 by Mullet |
This week's Moral Maze was fascinating. Essentially a load of Brexiteers saying "metropolitan elite called you all thick" alongside "we must remove labels and divisions" Portillo and the right wing columnist whose name I forget (Anne McElvoy?) were loving it.
It seems that bar one guy saying Scotland Wales and NI were ignored and being told to "shut up...majority blah" there was a sense that "we" should marginalise "radical remainers" and just get on with it.
I was astounded at where it went and how telling it was. |
It's become a cult.
When the actual issues become less important than what you feel about them, and how personally you take them, then you no longer have a valid opinion. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:39 - Feb 7 with 3802 views | tractordownsouth |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:31 - Feb 7 by Mullet |
This week's Moral Maze was fascinating. Essentially a load of Brexiteers saying "metropolitan elite called you all thick" alongside "we must remove labels and divisions" Portillo and the right wing columnist whose name I forget (Anne McElvoy?) were loving it.
It seems that bar one guy saying Scotland Wales and NI were ignored and being told to "shut up...majority blah" there was a sense that "we" should marginalise "radical remainers" and just get on with it.
I was astounded at where it went and how telling it was. |
I think a lot of the Brexit politicians have successfully managed to convince their followers that any criticism of the politicians (such as calling Dominic Raab thick for not knowing the importance of the Dover Calais crossing) is actually a criticism of the voters, when it isn’t.
It’s got to a point where pointing out facts is seen as condescending to some. The reality is that it’s the likes of Farage, Raab, Johnson etc who actually think the public are stupid by feeding them bile and lies on a daily basis. [Post edited 7 Feb 2020 16:39]
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:45 - Feb 7 with 3778 views | HARRY10 |
As much chance as uniting those who belief that we can talk to the dead and those who don't
Brexit is founded on belief - a suspension of rational thought, as however many facts or evidence is brought forward it will be met will the usual bleat of "projest fear.... baa baa". We all seen on here the almost daily dismantling of their idiocy. As with this morning when some brexit loon tried to blame the EU for abolishing the death penalty in the UK (1969) - and the UK didn't join the then Common Market until 1972.
Theirs is a world of lies, scaremonger and misrepresentation..'what a fool believes he sees' as the Dooby Brothers would have.
They have stood by the verdict of a court case that blocked witnesses and evidence, yet referred to an open case in a UK court as one by 'the enemies of the people'. They even complained about the sovereignty of parliament and demanded that the lawful democratoc process be overturned.
Loons the lot of them |  | | |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:46 - Feb 7 with 3770 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:39 - Feb 7 by tractordownsouth |
I think a lot of the Brexit politicians have successfully managed to convince their followers that any criticism of the politicians (such as calling Dominic Raab thick for not knowing the importance of the Dover Calais crossing) is actually a criticism of the voters, when it isn’t.
It’s got to a point where pointing out facts is seen as condescending to some. The reality is that it’s the likes of Farage, Raab, Johnson etc who actually think the public are stupid by feeding them bile and lies on a daily basis. [Post edited 7 Feb 2020 16:39]
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It's a very good point.
In the right-wing "woke", it's what people feel about issues that is the most important thing of all. And nothing else matters. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:48 - Feb 7 with 3753 views | Herbivore |
I think we need to just divide up the country. There's no desire to heal the divisions so they're only going to get worse. Brexiteers will accept nothing short of total surrender and Johnson's version of bringing the country together seems to involve pushing through the hardest Brexit possible. I think the UK probably needs to break up and people can go and live in whichever bit they feel most comfortable with some areas rejoining the EU. As long as part of the ex-UK is named Little England I'm sure it's probably the best solution to keep everyone happy. |  |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:52 - Feb 7 with 3735 views | StokieBlue |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:34 - Feb 7 by Darth_Koont |
It's become a cult.
When the actual issues become less important than what you feel about them, and how personally you take them, then you no longer have a valid opinion. |
I'm not entirely sure how you expect this thread to go. Everyone knows that it's better to counter arguments with facts but it's also true that some people are less able to take in those facts constructively.
There are some on this board from the remainer side who seem to revel in calling brexiteers stupid or thick at every chance they get. That's not going to bring anyone together.
You say we need to bring everyone together over facts and then in your next post say that the other side don't use facts so their opinion is invalid. I'm not sure that's going to lead to a reasoned and productive debate.
How do you think this thread is going to move on the debate? Even now it's turning into a thread where one side thinks the other is thick, wrong and might as well head off in their own direction.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:53 - Feb 7 with 3732 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:45 - Feb 7 by HARRY10 |
As much chance as uniting those who belief that we can talk to the dead and those who don't
Brexit is founded on belief - a suspension of rational thought, as however many facts or evidence is brought forward it will be met will the usual bleat of "projest fear.... baa baa". We all seen on here the almost daily dismantling of their idiocy. As with this morning when some brexit loon tried to blame the EU for abolishing the death penalty in the UK (1969) - and the UK didn't join the then Common Market until 1972.
Theirs is a world of lies, scaremonger and misrepresentation..'what a fool believes he sees' as the Dooby Brothers would have.
They have stood by the verdict of a court case that blocked witnesses and evidence, yet referred to an open case in a UK court as one by 'the enemies of the people'. They even complained about the sovereignty of parliament and demanded that the lawful democratoc process be overturned.
Loons the lot of them |
I generally agree. But I want to hear them say they can't use facts.
Even a religious person will admit that it's not about facts and talk about belief. Because belief is the point of religion. And even though I'm an atheist verging on an agnostic, it's when they address belief that religious people start to have a place in the discussion. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:58 - Feb 7 with 3709 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:52 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
I'm not entirely sure how you expect this thread to go. Everyone knows that it's better to counter arguments with facts but it's also true that some people are less able to take in those facts constructively.
There are some on this board from the remainer side who seem to revel in calling brexiteers stupid or thick at every chance they get. That's not going to bring anyone together.
You say we need to bring everyone together over facts and then in your next post say that the other side don't use facts so their opinion is invalid. I'm not sure that's going to lead to a reasoned and productive debate.
How do you think this thread is going to move on the debate? Even now it's turning into a thread where one side thinks the other is thick, wrong and might as well head off in their own direction.
SB |
I'm challenging them, Stokie. I'll admit that freely.
I want our Brexiteer fans to engage around the concept of fact-based discussion. Or not engage,b ecause for me that's equally telling.
But let's see what they say. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:08 - Feb 7 with 3681 views | footers |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:46 - Feb 7 by Darth_Koont |
It's a very good point.
In the right-wing "woke", it's what people feel about issues that is the most important thing of all. And nothing else matters. |
*hums Metallica* |  |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:12 - Feb 7 with 3669 views | HARRY10 |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:52 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
I'm not entirely sure how you expect this thread to go. Everyone knows that it's better to counter arguments with facts but it's also true that some people are less able to take in those facts constructively.
There are some on this board from the remainer side who seem to revel in calling brexiteers stupid or thick at every chance they get. That's not going to bring anyone together.
You say we need to bring everyone together over facts and then in your next post say that the other side don't use facts so their opinion is invalid. I'm not sure that's going to lead to a reasoned and productive debate.
How do you think this thread is going to move on the debate? Even now it's turning into a thread where one side thinks the other is thick, wrong and might as well head off in their own direction.
SB |
It is not about thinking that brexiteers are thick..... they are.
Everytime they appear on TV, on here on even in a coversation their ignorance spews out.
The defining point is that I know if I am accused of ignorance I would check up on what I thought. Brexiteers never do. It's the same idiotic nonsense day in day out, month in month out and now year in year out.
It matters little whether I point out that they are thick or that capital punishment in the UK was not stopped by the EU. They will just reply with more absurd 'whataboutery'
Brexiteers are not considred thick because they are not fully informed about every detail - but because of their blanket refusal to engage in rational debate. | | | |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:15 - Feb 7 with 3660 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:08 - Feb 7 by footers |
*hums Metallica* |
Thought you meant this:
Exit, light
Enter, night
Take my hand
We're off to never-never land
Equally appropriate for a Brexit discussion. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:24 - Feb 7 with 3639 views | Pinewoodblue |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 16:31 - Feb 7 by Mullet |
This week's Moral Maze was fascinating. Essentially a load of Brexiteers saying "metropolitan elite called you all thick" alongside "we must remove labels and divisions" Portillo and the right wing columnist whose name I forget (Anne McElvoy?) were loving it.
It seems that bar one guy saying Scotland Wales and NI were ignored and being told to "shut up...majority blah" there was a sense that "we" should marginalise "radical remainers" and just get on with it.
I was astounded at where it went and how telling it was. |
While Scots may feel they are being forced To leave the EU against their will it is worth remembering that the same could be said by Londoners but you don’t hear the same level of moaning from the capital.
More Londoners than Scots voted to remain. |  |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:27 - Feb 7 with 3629 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:24 - Feb 7 by Pinewoodblue |
While Scots may feel they are being forced To leave the EU against their will it is worth remembering that the same could be said by Londoners but you don’t hear the same level of moaning from the capital.
More Londoners than Scots voted to remain. |
Struggling to see the point there.
If you mean that Londoners should get together to fight for their rights then I'm all for it. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:40 - Feb 7 with 3602 views | Pinewoodblue |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:27 - Feb 7 by Darth_Koont |
Struggling to see the point there.
If you mean that Londoners should get together to fight for their rights then I'm all for it. |
Londoners , in the main part, accept The situation, no reason why others regions shouldn’t also. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:46 - Feb 7 with 3590 views | StokieBlue |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:12 - Feb 7 by HARRY10 |
It is not about thinking that brexiteers are thick..... they are.
Everytime they appear on TV, on here on even in a coversation their ignorance spews out.
The defining point is that I know if I am accused of ignorance I would check up on what I thought. Brexiteers never do. It's the same idiotic nonsense day in day out, month in month out and now year in year out.
It matters little whether I point out that they are thick or that capital punishment in the UK was not stopped by the EU. They will just reply with more absurd 'whataboutery'
Brexiteers are not considred thick because they are not fully informed about every detail - but because of their blanket refusal to engage in rational debate. |
In a thread talking about solutions you yet again weight in with insults. You do it on a daily basis. Your attitude is very definitely part of the problem. How can you expect to get your factual aguments across to someone if you continually call them thick and stupid. Is it any wonder they don't listen?
This thread won't find any solutions. It's an echo chamber for people to say how clever they are with their arguments and how stupid the other side are. It's sowing now division if anything.
I say all this as a remainer and someone who views factual arguments as the basis for all debate. I really don't think these attitudes are going to heal the country though or even enable civilised debate.
All that will happen is now entrenchment and an even smaller chance of your arguments being heard. Insulting people isn't going to get the rational debate you claim you want.
SB [Post edited 7 Feb 2020 17:53]
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:53 - Feb 7 with 3575 views | Swansea_Blue |
I’m torn between building bridges or culling one side. Both are equally likely. |  |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:56 - Feb 7 with 3560 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:40 - Feb 7 by Pinewoodblue |
Londoners , in the main part, accept The situation, no reason why others regions shouldn’t also. |
I will never "accept the situation" if the situation is sh!t and artificial.
Of course, I'd campaign to get back into the EU but our own government will be doing that for me over the next 11 months. It's just a matter of us being honest about how clueless we are.
And there's no shame in admitting that we can't shape our position in the modern world. That's why our European neighbours see the need for the EU better than us. | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:57 - Feb 7 with 3557 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:46 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
In a thread talking about solutions you yet again weight in with insults. You do it on a daily basis. Your attitude is very definitely part of the problem. How can you expect to get your factual aguments across to someone if you continually call them thick and stupid. Is it any wonder they don't listen?
This thread won't find any solutions. It's an echo chamber for people to say how clever they are with their arguments and how stupid the other side are. It's sowing now division if anything.
I say all this as a remainer and someone who views factual arguments as the basis for all debate. I really don't think these attitudes are going to heal the country though or even enable civilised debate.
All that will happen is now entrenchment and an even smaller chance of your arguments being heard. Insulting people isn't going to get the rational debate you claim you want.
SB [Post edited 7 Feb 2020 17:53]
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Tbh I think you’re peeing in the wind if you think there’s a chance of factual arguments being listened to, let alone debated in a considered and meaningful way. I’d love to be wrong, and I suppose it’s worth a go... | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:59 - Feb 7 with 3559 views | giant_stow |
Not sure that there's anything to solve now.
Brexiters did indeed buy a load of old sh1t in a fairly dim nonsensical way, but they won and now get to implement it.
Remainers now have to suck it up - personally I hope it somehow works out ok, but if it doesn’t we need to bite our tongues at least until that’s clearly the case. |  |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 18:02 - Feb 7 with 3541 views | HARRY10 |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:46 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
In a thread talking about solutions you yet again weight in with insults. You do it on a daily basis. Your attitude is very definitely part of the problem. How can you expect to get your factual aguments across to someone if you continually call them thick and stupid. Is it any wonder they don't listen?
This thread won't find any solutions. It's an echo chamber for people to say how clever they are with their arguments and how stupid the other side are. It's sowing now division if anything.
I say all this as a remainer and someone who views factual arguments as the basis for all debate. I really don't think these attitudes are going to heal the country though or even enable civilised debate.
All that will happen is now entrenchment and an even smaller chance of your arguments being heard. Insulting people isn't going to get the rational debate you claim you want.
SB [Post edited 7 Feb 2020 17:53]
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Absolute nonsense.
People have tried year after year with patient, polite and reasone argument and have failed - as I have said, if someone is too thick to listen them why persist with that line of thought ?
And if it is my choice of words that led to 17.4m people believing that farking up the ecomomy was a good idea then the problem is far, far greater than any words I might use. Better to be honest and say what is blatently obvious than to pander to their collective stupidity
And I note you don't dispute the notion that they are thick, stupid etc...... just my saying it. | | | |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 18:04 - Feb 7 with 3537 views | bluejacko |
Really! If you can’t or don’t want to accept the situation you have got 11 months to leave and live in your EU utopia. I am sure they would love to accept people of your superior intellect. | | | |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 18:05 - Feb 7 with 3533 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 17:57 - Feb 7 by Swansea_Blue |
Tbh I think you’re peeing in the wind if you think there’s a chance of factual arguments being listened to, let alone debated in a considered and meaningful way. I’d love to be wrong, and I suppose it’s worth a go... |
Agreed. But let's make the challenge about engaging in fact-based discussion.
At least then we'll see where we stand or who can actually engage in the first place. The current exchange of opinions is utterly pointless.
A refusal to engage with facts means they win but everybody loses (even them). | |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 18:06 - Feb 7 with 3520 views | StokieBlue |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 18:02 - Feb 7 by HARRY10 |
Absolute nonsense.
People have tried year after year with patient, polite and reasone argument and have failed - as I have said, if someone is too thick to listen them why persist with that line of thought ?
And if it is my choice of words that led to 17.4m people believing that farking up the ecomomy was a good idea then the problem is far, far greater than any words I might use. Better to be honest and say what is blatently obvious than to pander to their collective stupidity
And I note you don't dispute the notion that they are thick, stupid etc...... just my saying it. |
Perhaps you're not quite as clever as you think your are given you've repeatedly missed my point. You frame everything in a historical context which hasn't been the basis of any of my posts to you.
Still, I don't feel the need to call you stupid as where would that get us?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A post-Brexit solution? on 18:07 - Feb 7 with 3518 views | Darth_Koont |
| A post-Brexit solution? on 18:04 - Feb 7 by bluejacko |
Really! If you can’t or don’t want to accept the situation you have got 11 months to leave and live in your EU utopia. I am sure they would love to accept people of your superior intellect. |
So that's a no to fact-based discussion then?
Have you ever thought that your emotional response isn't always the right response? | |
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