| XR PR 09:12 - Sep 11 with 26751 views | hampstead_blue |
Interesting resignation and thoughts from their PR talking head.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54103163
XR "peddle messages of doomsday gloom that alienate" and offer "little in the way of positive solutions", she added.
co-founder Roger Hallam's claim that science predicts six billion people will die this century due to climate change - a claim that he made to BBC's HARDtalk.
Ms Lights said: "It's a headline-grabbing assertion - but unfortunately, it's also not true,
peer-group tribal pressure to stick to an outdated mainstream green line".
"peddling the notion that the solution to the climate crisis was to turn back the clock to a simpler time".
I think I mentioned last week that XR wanted us to live in caves. That got me a lot of tap. Well, their former head of PR agrees. Tap away.
A few interesting clips from the BBC piece.
I've said before that I am not a fan of them and how they make their point. THis simply reinforces it.
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| XR PR on 09:16 - Sep 11 with 5880 views | Keno |
putting aside the XR issues you do know you missed a golden opportunity to wind bluefish up dont you
Just imagine his reaction to a Thread with the Title "PR Resigns" [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 9:32]
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| XR PR on 09:26 - Sep 11 with 5829 views | jeera |
Because you're making the same mistake as those who label BLM Marxists and the like.
Treating movements as a collective only and ignoring that they are made up of individuals, some of whom will be more radical than others.
Many members will have the core values at heart and not be pushing the rhetoric that a few of the others may be. It's a shame it's always the wrong messages that grab the headlines whilst the main important message gets pushed aside by people who generally aren't really interested. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:56]
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| XR PR on 09:30 - Sep 11 with 5822 views | Herbivore |
Are you familiar with the phenomenon of confirmation bias? |  |
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| XR PR on 09:32 - Sep 11 with 5816 views | Herbivore |
| XR PR on 09:26 - Sep 11 by jeera |
Because you're making the same mistake as those who label BLM Marxists and the like.
Treating movements as a collective only and ignoring that they are made up of individuals, some of whom will be more radical than others.
Many members will have the core values at heart and not be pushing the rhetoric that a few of the others may be. It's a shame it's always the wrong messages that grab the headlines whilst the main important message gets pushed aside by people who generally aren't really interested. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:56]
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Precisely this. Attack the messengers because the message makes you feel uncomfortable and you don't want to hear it. | |
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| XR PR on 09:34 - Sep 11 with 5813 views | hampstead_blue |
| XR PR on 09:26 - Sep 11 by jeera |
Because you're making the same mistake as those who label BLM Marxists and the like.
Treating movements as a collective only and ignoring that they are made up of individuals, some of whom will be more radical than others.
Many members will have the core values at heart and not be pushing the rhetoric that a few of the others may be. It's a shame it's always the wrong messages that grab the headlines whilst the main important message gets pushed aside by people who generally aren't really interested. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:56]
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I think when the Head of PR quits and leaves with this statement, I feel they are wrong.
I get your point but in reality the extremists will always shout the loudest.
The moderate quiet person will get shouted down. "DO MORE. SMASH THE STATE" they will shout, when MRs Miggins just wants to quietly walk down the high st making a gentle point.
The message is getting lost.
I think I read that XR state that we will be doomed within 25 years. That is the type of messaging which will get you laughed at. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| XR PR on 09:40 - Sep 11 with 5792 views | Herbivore |
| XR PR on 09:34 - Sep 11 by hampstead_blue |
I think when the Head of PR quits and leaves with this statement, I feel they are wrong.
I get your point but in reality the extremists will always shout the loudest.
The moderate quiet person will get shouted down. "DO MORE. SMASH THE STATE" they will shout, when MRs Miggins just wants to quietly walk down the high st making a gentle point.
The message is getting lost.
I think I read that XR state that we will be doomed within 25 years. That is the type of messaging which will get you laughed at. |
Attack the messenger because you don't want to engage with the message. Standard. | |
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| XR PR on 09:43 - Sep 11 with 5778 views | Bluefish |
| XR PR on 09:16 - Sep 11 by Keno |
putting aside the XR issues you do know you missed a golden opportunity to wind bluefish up dont you
Just imagine his reaction to a Thread with the Title "PR Resigns" [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 9:32]
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I genuinely just opened this thread a bit confused by the title |  |
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| XR PR on 09:51 - Sep 11 with 5761 views | Pendejo |
| XR PR on 09:34 - Sep 11 by hampstead_blue |
I think when the Head of PR quits and leaves with this statement, I feel they are wrong.
I get your point but in reality the extremists will always shout the loudest.
The moderate quiet person will get shouted down. "DO MORE. SMASH THE STATE" they will shout, when MRs Miggins just wants to quietly walk down the high st making a gentle point.
The message is getting lost.
I think I read that XR state that we will be doomed within 25 years. That is the type of messaging which will get you laughed at. |
As it happens I believe the human race (as we know and love it now) is probably doomed within 25-50 years because the desire for greed and power has been left unchecked for far too long. XR are too late.
As my further beliefs may make David Is me seem as same and plain as the man on the Clapham Omnibus... I'll shut up now, lest my lizard masters read this forum. |  |
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| XR PR on 10:01 - Sep 11 with 5741 views | solomon |
| XR PR on 09:26 - Sep 11 by jeera |
Because you're making the same mistake as those who label BLM Marxists and the like.
Treating movements as a collective only and ignoring that they are made up of individuals, some of whom will be more radical than others.
Many members will have the core values at heart and not be pushing the rhetoric that a few of the others may be. It's a shame it's always the wrong messages that grab the headlines whilst the main important message gets pushed aside by people who generally aren't really interested. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:56]
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The message is clear and valid on the environment, however I don’t think X.R are smart enough to get this over to the masses and create real change. To most people they look too radical and slightly juvenile in their approach, the general public need this selling to them in a way that gets them on board and not by putting them off, it’s fair to say too many people are getting bored of them and they are becoming a bit too 2019, it’s up to them now to find a way to engage on a level that will bring real change not some glorified sit in. We’ve just been through a seismic change on a global scale which had a positive effect on the environment this they should be using as this is something everyone can relate to, a springboard if you like. That’s my thoughts on it anyway. |  | | |
| XR PR on 10:07 - Sep 11 with 5727 views | eireblue |
As a lover of science and open and honest debate.
What happens if the planet warms up by 4 degrees Celsius?
Can you tell us what quiet Mrs Miggins will do to stop this? |  | | |
| XR PR on 10:14 - Sep 11 with 5710 views | Swansea_Blue |
Some people will like how they make their point, some won't. That's going to be a very subjective argument. Personally, I don't see why they need to be offering solutions. There's nothing wrong with protesting to highlight an issue that's the responsibility of others to address. And the message is grim, there's little way to sugarcoat it.
The nuclear debate is going to rumble on forever I imagine. We all know the pros and cons around it. I'd like to see what we can achieve without it given the high consequences of safety breaches (tidal being an area we really should be making more of an effort). Continuing with offshore wind, a vast ramping up of micro renewable generation and tidal may be all we need to do. But I can see the argument for nuclear, for sure. |  |
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| XR PR on 10:16 - Sep 11 with 5708 views | Alan_Handsome |
Lost my support when they blocked a blue light ambulance from getting along a main road through Cambridge a few months back. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:17]
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| You can't polish a turd....but you can sprinkle it with glitter! |
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| XR PR on 10:26 - Sep 11 with 5678 views | giant_stow |
| XR PR on 10:14 - Sep 11 by Swansea_Blue |
Some people will like how they make their point, some won't. That's going to be a very subjective argument. Personally, I don't see why they need to be offering solutions. There's nothing wrong with protesting to highlight an issue that's the responsibility of others to address. And the message is grim, there's little way to sugarcoat it.
The nuclear debate is going to rumble on forever I imagine. We all know the pros and cons around it. I'd like to see what we can achieve without it given the high consequences of safety breaches (tidal being an area we really should be making more of an effort). Continuing with offshore wind, a vast ramping up of micro renewable generation and tidal may be all we need to do. But I can see the argument for nuclear, for sure. |
Any chance of that Swansea scheme happenning or is that gone now? |  |
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| XR PR on 10:27 - Sep 11 with 5677 views | Half_Idiot |
| XR PR on 09:26 - Sep 11 by jeera |
Because you're making the same mistake as those who label BLM Marxists and the like.
Treating movements as a collective only and ignoring that they are made up of individuals, some of whom will be more radical than others.
Many members will have the core values at heart and not be pushing the rhetoric that a few of the others may be. It's a shame it's always the wrong messages that grab the headlines whilst the main important message gets pushed aside by people who generally aren't really interested. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:56]
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This is a common tactic of those in power that are threatened by the movement. They put focus on the extremist minority to fool the public into believing they are the ones under threat. |  | | |
| XR PR on 10:35 - Sep 11 with 5666 views | eireblue |
| XR PR on 10:01 - Sep 11 by solomon |
The message is clear and valid on the environment, however I don’t think X.R are smart enough to get this over to the masses and create real change. To most people they look too radical and slightly juvenile in their approach, the general public need this selling to them in a way that gets them on board and not by putting them off, it’s fair to say too many people are getting bored of them and they are becoming a bit too 2019, it’s up to them now to find a way to engage on a level that will bring real change not some glorified sit in. We’ve just been through a seismic change on a global scale which had a positive effect on the environment this they should be using as this is something everyone can relate to, a springboard if you like. That’s my thoughts on it anyway. |
It isn’t really a seismic change, it has been humans witnessing an exponential effect, within a short period that should really be considered.
Look at the graphs of COVID deaths or infections, map it to timelines of interventions.
The issue with an exponentially growing problem, is that intervention is usually to late.
Just like deciding to put on the brakes of a fully laden tanker heading full steam to the Isle of Wight. Giving yourself a couple of minutes to stamp on the errrr brakes, is too late.
It is worth having a look at graphs of other animal populations that have exponential rises, and then see what happens when the resources to support that population run out.
Hammpy who likes science, will obviously do this.
Then compare human population growth to the animal growth, then think about the downward side of the graph.
A phrase that I have heard in some circles is quite useful to consider.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Humans metaphorically, don’t want to be the grinning fool on the deck of super tanker, saying “it will all be fine, someone will surely put the break on in a minute”, when the tanker is 3 minutes away from the Isle of Wight [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:37]
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| XR PR on 10:35 - Sep 11 with 5666 views | HARRY10 |
| XR PR on 10:16 - Sep 11 by Alan_Handsome |
Lost my support when they blocked a blue light ambulance from getting along a main road through Cambridge a few months back. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:17]
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Of course you did.
XR are more an effect of the concern, that it's cause- as the more people become aware of the threat looming, the more they will re-act
It is when the economics of current worldwide behaviour tilt against continuing, that's is when change will happen,
As with smog, lead in petrol smoking in public, burning coal etc
However that does not mean such activity as XR should be shunned or stopped - and it is a pretty shallow (and probably false) understanding of climate change etc that you would turn away from your grasp of things because of one isolated.
"Mt grandad was fully in support of fighting the Nazis, but when he heard that some Home Guard had knocked a German parachutist about a bit, that was it. He stopped supporting the war effort there and then" - and that is a true story, honest | | | |
| XR PR on 10:51 - Sep 11 with 5635 views | solomon |
| XR PR on 10:35 - Sep 11 by eireblue |
It isn’t really a seismic change, it has been humans witnessing an exponential effect, within a short period that should really be considered.
Look at the graphs of COVID deaths or infections, map it to timelines of interventions.
The issue with an exponentially growing problem, is that intervention is usually to late.
Just like deciding to put on the brakes of a fully laden tanker heading full steam to the Isle of Wight. Giving yourself a couple of minutes to stamp on the errrr brakes, is too late.
It is worth having a look at graphs of other animal populations that have exponential rises, and then see what happens when the resources to support that population run out.
Hammpy who likes science, will obviously do this.
Then compare human population growth to the animal growth, then think about the downward side of the graph.
A phrase that I have heard in some circles is quite useful to consider.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Humans metaphorically, don’t want to be the grinning fool on the deck of super tanker, saying “it will all be fine, someone will surely put the break on in a minute”, when the tanker is 3 minutes away from the Isle of Wight [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 10:37]
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When we look at this from a purely environmental perspective, it’s clear people like Elon musk have achieved far more in a shorter period of time than anyone else.
The battle ground is Jason and Sophie at number 28, how do we change the way they and their family live? It’s all about making change a desirable and aspirational ideal. Mr Musk has understood this and this is the way things will change for the environment. I can’t tell you the number of petrol head fiends I have who are openly talking seriously about buying electric vehicles now, one is even looking at a Porsche Taycan, 6 months ago he was adamant he would never have one over his 911, this is off course now happening at lower price points too, this is where the battle is and where it will be won not at the gates of a newspaper making futile gestures that change nothing. | | | |
| XR PR on 11:00 - Sep 11 with 5617 views | eireblue |
| XR PR on 10:51 - Sep 11 by solomon |
When we look at this from a purely environmental perspective, it’s clear people like Elon musk have achieved far more in a shorter period of time than anyone else.
The battle ground is Jason and Sophie at number 28, how do we change the way they and their family live? It’s all about making change a desirable and aspirational ideal. Mr Musk has understood this and this is the way things will change for the environment. I can’t tell you the number of petrol head fiends I have who are openly talking seriously about buying electric vehicles now, one is even looking at a Porsche Taycan, 6 months ago he was adamant he would never have one over his 911, this is off course now happening at lower price points too, this is where the battle is and where it will be won not at the gates of a newspaper making futile gestures that change nothing. |
Show me any form of data, mathematical, environmental science that shows how some people changing to electric cars over the next 20 years is sufficient.
Remember Boris Johnson’s please don’t go to pubs message, before the lockdown.
It wasn’t very effective at stopping an exponential problem getting worse. | | | |
| XR PR on 11:05 - Sep 11 with 5607 views | WeWereZombies |
| XR PR on 10:51 - Sep 11 by solomon |
When we look at this from a purely environmental perspective, it’s clear people like Elon musk have achieved far more in a shorter period of time than anyone else.
The battle ground is Jason and Sophie at number 28, how do we change the way they and their family live? It’s all about making change a desirable and aspirational ideal. Mr Musk has understood this and this is the way things will change for the environment. I can’t tell you the number of petrol head fiends I have who are openly talking seriously about buying electric vehicles now, one is even looking at a Porsche Taycan, 6 months ago he was adamant he would never have one over his 911, this is off course now happening at lower price points too, this is where the battle is and where it will be won not at the gates of a newspaper making futile gestures that change nothing. |
I was with you on your earlier post but this focus on electric cars when we are talking about the mass extinction of innumerable species (innumerable because zoologists are way off identifying how many species there are on Earth as yet) is not only missing the point but it is missing the board where the point is and throwing darts at the toilet sign... |  |
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| XR PR on 11:08 - Sep 11 with 5599 views | StokieBlue |
| XR PR on 09:30 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
Are you familiar with the phenomenon of confirmation bias? |
You're of course right with regards to confirmation bias but I would posit that the founder making such unscientific claims allows people to more actively discredit what they are trying to do.
In these situations it's important to be scientifically and factually correct thus not to give free ammunition to the deniers.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| XR PR on 11:11 - Sep 11 with 5578 views | Swansea_Blue |
| XR PR on 10:26 - Sep 11 by giant_stow |
Any chance of that Swansea scheme happenning or is that gone now? |
I'm pretty sure that's gone for the foreseeable. It's all gone quiet over here. | |
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| XR PR on 11:13 - Sep 11 with 5577 views | pointofblue |
Deleted - wrong thread. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 11:14]
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| XR PR on 11:16 - Sep 11 with 5567 views | eireblue |
| XR PR on 11:08 - Sep 11 by StokieBlue |
You're of course right with regards to confirmation bias but I would posit that the founder making such unscientific claims allows people to more actively discredit what they are trying to do.
In these situations it's important to be scientifically and factually correct thus not to give free ammunition to the deniers.
SB |
If I have some time, I’ll look some stuff up.
Of course Hampstead should have done this himself.
Fact checkers will say there is no peer reviewed scientific consensus on his claim.
That is not the same as there is no science.
There is. If the planet warms by 4 degrees, it is a possibility that human population can only survive at around 10% of what it is now.
As previously suggested, it is worth thinking about other animal populations that outgrow their environment.
Such science is quite hard, you have to make assumptions about how effective measures will or won’t be.
The amusing thing for me is people like Hampstead, i.e. people that don’t like policies that they seem extreme, also tend to say thing like, well it is pointless anyway because China, US, developing nations will ignore things.
That being the case, the worse case scenarios are more likely to occur. | | | |
| XR PR on 11:26 - Sep 11 with 5550 views | hampstead_blue |
| XR PR on 10:01 - Sep 11 by solomon |
The message is clear and valid on the environment, however I don’t think X.R are smart enough to get this over to the masses and create real change. To most people they look too radical and slightly juvenile in their approach, the general public need this selling to them in a way that gets them on board and not by putting them off, it’s fair to say too many people are getting bored of them and they are becoming a bit too 2019, it’s up to them now to find a way to engage on a level that will bring real change not some glorified sit in. We’ve just been through a seismic change on a global scale which had a positive effect on the environment this they should be using as this is something everyone can relate to, a springboard if you like. That’s my thoughts on it anyway. |
Exactly.
Problem with the likes of XR is that they turn the right people away with their silliness and shouty state and wealth crushing antics. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| XR PR on 11:26 - Sep 11 with 5548 views | StokieBlue |
| XR PR on 11:16 - Sep 11 by eireblue |
If I have some time, I’ll look some stuff up.
Of course Hampstead should have done this himself.
Fact checkers will say there is no peer reviewed scientific consensus on his claim.
That is not the same as there is no science.
There is. If the planet warms by 4 degrees, it is a possibility that human population can only survive at around 10% of what it is now.
As previously suggested, it is worth thinking about other animal populations that outgrow their environment.
Such science is quite hard, you have to make assumptions about how effective measures will or won’t be.
The amusing thing for me is people like Hampstead, i.e. people that don’t like policies that they seem extreme, also tend to say thing like, well it is pointless anyway because China, US, developing nations will ignore things.
That being the case, the worse case scenarios are more likely to occur. |
A warming of 4C is right on the far percentiles of what is even possible in the next 50 years, over longer timescales (70+ years) it's definitely possible but he cited 50 years in his point.
I don't disagree with you, just feel that selecting an outlier scenario as a headline point makes is easier for people like Hampstead to dismiss it when what we need is for them to be engaged in the task with a realistic goal.
With regards to only 10% being able to survive, I don't doubt that but is it in existing population centres or inclusive of migration to areas that become more habitable (Siberia for instance)? Once again it's a number I fear can be dismissed/ignored by those unwilling to look into it.
Once again, ER are right to highlight these incredibly pressing matters and things need to be done, just feel that taking the most extreme percentiles of the modelling as a headline point is probably not going to help their message as has been demonstrated in this thread.
If the message isn't clear and accepted then it's not going to help any of us in the long run.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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