| de Kock statement 11:16 - Oct 28 with 3273 views | gtsb1966 |
Without turning this into an argument which unfortunately some people will I can see both sides of the story here.
"For me, black lives have mattered since I was born. Not just because there was an international movement," said De Kock.
"The rights and equality of all people is more important than any individual.
"I was raised to understand that we all have rights, and they are important.
"I felt like my rights were taken away when I was told what we had to do in the way that we were told.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59073822
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| de Kock statement on 11:21 - Oct 28 with 2366 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I struggle to see his side to be honest. Very glad he has come to this position, though.
"I felt like my rights were taken away when I was told what we had to do in the way that we were told." seems to show a complete lack of understanding of what BLM represents and the dreadful removal of rights that people of colour suffered in South Africa especially and still do face all over the world.
I see no reason why people should not move on from this now, though. |  |
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| de Kock statement on 11:23 - Oct 28 with 2352 views | footers |
Well, he may feel as though his rights were taken away but they weren't. So no.
Trouble is, everyone should have equal rights but BAME people are often not treated in the same way as white people, which is the whole point. |  |
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| de Kock statement on 11:28 - Oct 28 with 2303 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| de Kock statement on 11:23 - Oct 28 by footers |
Well, he may feel as though his rights were taken away but they weren't. So no.
Trouble is, everyone should have equal rights but BAME people are often not treated in the same way as white people, which is the whole point. |
Indeed, and it is not a statement saying that he does not or has not respected their rights but recognising that there are far too many who still don't. If he cannot recognise that is the situation for BAME people now, then I would find it very disappointing.
It is noteworthy that he was not dropped but made himself unavailable for selection. Quite what pressure was being put on him to take the knee or he would have been sanctioned I do not know. Maybe that is the issue but, since he does not have a fundamental reason to oppose taking the knee itself (who would and why would they?), even that is not exactly against a fundamental right of his is it? | |
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| de Kock statement on 11:36 - Oct 28 with 2235 views | ZXBlue |
| de Kock statement on 11:28 - Oct 28 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Indeed, and it is not a statement saying that he does not or has not respected their rights but recognising that there are far too many who still don't. If he cannot recognise that is the situation for BAME people now, then I would find it very disappointing.
It is noteworthy that he was not dropped but made himself unavailable for selection. Quite what pressure was being put on him to take the knee or he would have been sanctioned I do not know. Maybe that is the issue but, since he does not have a fundamental reason to oppose taking the knee itself (who would and why would they?), even that is not exactly against a fundamental right of his is it? |
Hasnt he done it before as well?
He has made a point of not joiniing in, and been entirely unable to explain a reasonable justification. I have to say that I doubt the veracity of the position he now takes. |  | | |
| de Kock statement on 11:37 - Oct 28 with 2244 views | Herbivore |
"I felt like my rights were taken away when I was told what we had to do in the way that we were told"
For those still not sure what white privilege is or looks like, it looks like a white man complaining his rights are being taken away by being asked to participate in a simple, peaceful gesture in support of racial equality and better treatment of people of colour. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 11:37]
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| de Kock statement on 11:40 - Oct 28 with 2202 views | J2BLUE |
To be fair, I made a similar argument when everyone was banging on about being a feminist a few years ago so I can't judge him too harshly.
I can see his point but when the movement is something he's agreeing with anyway it seems counterproductive to refuse to do it. Taking part would do no harm. |  |
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| de Kock statement on 11:42 - Oct 28 with 2193 views | StokieBlue |
| de Kock statement on 11:37 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
"I felt like my rights were taken away when I was told what we had to do in the way that we were told"
For those still not sure what white privilege is or looks like, it looks like a white man complaining his rights are being taken away by being asked to participate in a simple, peaceful gesture in support of racial equality and better treatment of people of colour. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 11:37]
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I was going to post similar but you've covered it nicely.
The dreaded "but both sides" argument rearing it's ugly head again.
SB |  | | |
| de Kock statement on 12:13 - Oct 28 with 2047 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
I think his point is he agrees with the symbolism of taking a knee and the BLM movment but not with it being mandated IE taking away freedom of choice which he also respects which I think is fair enough though not the hill most people would choose to die on.
Either that or he'd realised it's nor worth his international career |  |
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| de Kock statement on 12:24 - Oct 28 with 1967 views | Wacko |
Get over it you total fanny (de Kock) | |
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| de Kock statement on 12:25 - Oct 28 with 1965 views | Herbivore |
| de Kock statement on 12:13 - Oct 28 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I think his point is he agrees with the symbolism of taking a knee and the BLM movment but not with it being mandated IE taking away freedom of choice which he also respects which I think is fair enough though not the hill most people would choose to die on.
Either that or he'd realised it's nor worth his international career |
He can still choose not to do it. Nobody is putting a gun to his head. There would likely be consequences but many choices have consequences and that doesn't make us any less free to take those choices. | |
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| de Kock statement on 12:27 - Oct 28 with 1951 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| de Kock statement on 12:13 - Oct 28 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I think his point is he agrees with the symbolism of taking a knee and the BLM movment but not with it being mandated IE taking away freedom of choice which he also respects which I think is fair enough though not the hill most people would choose to die on.
Either that or he'd realised it's nor worth his international career |
True. It must be a great hardship and infringement on his basic human rights to be told to make a gesture in support of freedom of others (that he clearly states he supports anyway). I am sure he would have had no problem choosing to make the gesture but his only issue is with being told to do so because someone has decided it is a team decision. | |
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| de Kock statement on 12:28 - Oct 28 with 1950 views | baxterbasics |
Seems to me that enforcing the gesture in this way dilutes the impact.
I feel the same about poppy wearing in November. |  |
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| de Kock statement on 12:34 - Oct 28 with 1902 views | Wacko |
| de Kock statement on 12:28 - Oct 28 by baxterbasics |
Seems to me that enforcing the gesture in this way dilutes the impact.
I feel the same about poppy wearing in November. |
You can still make a mental / personal choice within the framework of the enforcement. He could just as easily join in, and use ensuing press conferences to debate its value. Generally though, this kind of action hides the true sentiment. I bet if his team were 'forced' to go to an all-expenses paid Michelin restaurant, he would join in an instant. | |
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| de Kock statement on 12:47 - Oct 28 with 1801 views | Herbivore |
| de Kock statement on 12:34 - Oct 28 by Wacko |
You can still make a mental / personal choice within the framework of the enforcement. He could just as easily join in, and use ensuing press conferences to debate its value. Generally though, this kind of action hides the true sentiment. I bet if his team were 'forced' to go to an all-expenses paid Michelin restaurant, he would join in an instant. |
Within that team environment I imagine there are many things enforced that players aren't always happy with but follow because of the good of the team. In tournament scenarios there will usually be things like curfews, alcohol bans (on certain days at least) which constitute an infringement of his liberty. Why is it only this one, which seems less restrictive than many other rules he'll be following, that he has such a strong objection to? | |
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| de Kock statement on 12:49 - Oct 28 with 1785 views | The_Romford_Blue |
His issue is with Cricket South Africa isn’t it for telling them a few days ago that they had to do one of the three gestures (knee taking included as one of those) or risk discipline.
I feel like he’s tried to make a point here and it’s got misinterpreted as though he was outright trying to go against an obviously worthy campaign. One that he seemingly also supports anyway. |  |
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| de Kock statement on 12:50 - Oct 28 with 1758 views | noggin |
| de Kock statement on 12:28 - Oct 28 by baxterbasics |
Seems to me that enforcing the gesture in this way dilutes the impact.
I feel the same about poppy wearing in November. |
Who is forced to wear a poppy or take the knee? |  |
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| de Kock statement on 12:53 - Oct 28 with 1747 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| de Kock statement on 12:49 - Oct 28 by The_Romford_Blue |
His issue is with Cricket South Africa isn’t it for telling them a few days ago that they had to do one of the three gestures (knee taking included as one of those) or risk discipline.
I feel like he’s tried to make a point here and it’s got misinterpreted as though he was outright trying to go against an obviously worthy campaign. One that he seemingly also supports anyway. |
If he supports it anyway why has he made such an issue of it?
If he has been offered the 3 options, why has he not clearly explained to Cricket South Africa why all 3 options are unacceptable? (Which appears not to be the case anyway.)
He has not painted himself in a very good light here at all. | |
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| de Kock statement on 12:54 - Oct 28 with 1737 views | Herbivore |
| de Kock statement on 12:53 - Oct 28 by Nthsuffolkblue |
If he supports it anyway why has he made such an issue of it?
If he has been offered the 3 options, why has he not clearly explained to Cricket South Africa why all 3 options are unacceptable? (Which appears not to be the case anyway.)
He has not painted himself in a very good light here at all. |
Apparently he didn't take the knee when it wasn't directed that they had to as a team, which rather suggests his refusal to take the knee isn't a protest against it being made mandatory. | |
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| de Kock statement on 12:59 - Oct 28 with 1719 views | Meadowlark |
I find it staggering that he said "of" in the first sentence below, then correctly used "have" in the next sentence!
"I think it would of been better for everyone concerned if we had sorted this out before the tournament started."
"Then we could have focused on our job, to win cricket matches for our country." |  | | |
| de Kock statement on 13:37 - Oct 28 with 1568 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| de Kock statement on 12:59 - Oct 28 by Meadowlark |
I find it staggering that he said "of" in the first sentence below, then correctly used "have" in the next sentence!
"I think it would of been better for everyone concerned if we had sorted this out before the tournament started."
"Then we could have focused on our job, to win cricket matches for our country." |
And I guess they had sorted it out before the start of the tournament without realising that someone who has no problem with supporting equality has a problem with taking the knee despite not actually having a problem with it! | |
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| de Kock statement on 13:50 - Oct 28 with 1497 views | ElderGrizzly |
| de Kock statement on 11:23 - Oct 28 by footers |
Well, he may feel as though his rights were taken away but they weren't. So no.
Trouble is, everyone should have equal rights but BAME people are often not treated in the same way as white people, which is the whole point. |
And from South Africa, this is probably a very fine line to tread.
Especially when his family had live in black 'maids' when growing up. |  | | |
| de Kock statement on 13:55 - Oct 28 with 1468 views | N2_Blue |
| de Kock statement on 12:28 - Oct 28 by baxterbasics |
Seems to me that enforcing the gesture in this way dilutes the impact.
I feel the same about poppy wearing in November. |
Stange.
Who is forced to take the knee or wear a poppy?
I very rarely wear a poppy, for no particular reason at all, sometimes as simply as just not getting round to it. I donate to British Legion all through the year and observe a moment of respect on armistice day.
I don't think in my lifetime anyone has ever asked why I don't have a poppy pinned to my lapel or such like. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 13:56]
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| de Kock statement on 13:59 - Oct 28 with 1436 views | GeoffSentence |
"Without turning this into an argument which unfortunately some people will"
No they won't |  |
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| de Kock statement on 14:04 - Oct 28 with 1421 views | factual_blue |
Other people may of course find it unlikely that a white South African isn't racist.
But he says he isn't, so that's cleared that up. |  |
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