| Board divisiveness 09:47 - May 31 with 40940 views | PhilTWTD |
Getting more than a little fed up with the recent fractiousness on here. There seem to be two groups of posters some of whom's main interest in being on here is to have pops at the other. That then leads to someone reporting a post, PMing or emailing me about the other.
Not really sure what to do about it, does seem some posters have unhealthy obsession with others, which is causing the rest of us, especially me a problem. I could ban all those involved on both sides en masse, who I'm sure most other posters could name, but that seems a little draconian and no doubt none of them would feel they had any blame.
Any thoughts? A number of those regularly involved with up arrow this post and tell me I'm right to call this out, as happens every time I make a similar request for the bickering to stop.
This site is always going to be a broad church of people from different backgrounds, ages, genders and views, so not everyone is going to agree with everyone or see everything posted as in the same way and I think there needs to be a bit more tolerance.
But more than anything far less winding up and chipping away at other users, deliberate attempts at subverting other people's threads etc.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Board divisiveness on 09:49 - May 31 with 11991 views | tonybied |
Cool down bans? As in a ban for a short period, perhaps 1st strike a week, 2nd strike a month and then a permanent ban if the message is still not received loud and clear. |  | | |
| Board divisiveness on 09:51 - May 31 with 11929 views | chicoazul |
What are your top 5 cheeses |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 09:52 - May 31 with 11937 views | nodge_blue |
Phil - you have been here numerous times. And frankly will be again.
You could stop the non football threads entirely for a period?
It all seems a bit draconian as you say, but I can understand you have a job to do and cant be policing things all the time that are often in shades of grey and you need a jury to decide who is right and wrong etc. |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 09:54 - May 31 with 11885 views | DanTheMan |
Enforced ignores all round? I know the UX for it isn't great but it's better than bans.
Or you completely ban talking about one particular subject... |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 09:54 - May 31 with 11882 views | hype313 |
Sin bin for a month.
if nothing else, gives you a break from the nonsense. |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 09:55 - May 31 with 11844 views | _clive_baker_ |
A couple of practical suggestions:
- Rather than outright bans could you impose 48 hour cooling off periods for frequent offenders?
- Revise the ignore list? Not sure how practical it is but it doesn’t work very well as it ruins threads and IMO isn’t a great solution.
Ultimately none of it should be necessary if people stop being numpties. We’ll never all agree on everything, we don’t need to obsess over points to try and win the internet and have the last word. Make your point, agree to disagree, move on. It’s not difficult and you shouldn’t have to spend your time babysitting. [Post edited 31 May 2024 9:57]
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| Board divisiveness on 09:57 - May 31 with 11809 views | DJR |
I don't get involved in those threads which are totally pointless and don't involve any discussion of issues, but I wonder if some sort of sanction short of an outright ban is the answer.
Maybe it's not technically possible but attaching a yellow card to a poster's posts (with perhaps the word "warning" added) might shame a poster into behaving more appropriately. The other option is "sin bin" bans lasting perhaps a week. |  | | |
| Board divisiveness on 10:00 - May 31 with 11745 views | giant_stow |
I think, for what's it worth, the rows continue because they never have a chance to burn themselves out. I don't know how complicated it would be for gav to the add a 'bust up' tab/filter but if we're fairly easy, I'd do that and put all the threads involved there and let them run. [Post edited 31 May 2024 10:03]
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| Board divisiveness on 10:00 - May 31 with 11734 views | Ryorry |
You’ve posted similar several times Phil, have been patient, and still the issue continues.
Maybe you’re a bit too tolerant for your own good. When I had my racing forum, I used a yellow and red card system - two strikes and they were out, no returns (IPs banned - a bit more difficult to do now, with mobiles) - which policy I adopted because otherwise I would have been too stressed out and wouldn’t have had the time to keep the forum going. |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:01 - May 31 with 11705 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Board divisiveness on 09:54 - May 31 by hype313 |
Sin bin for a month.
if nothing else, gives you a break from the nonsense. |
Aren’t temporary bans pointless since they come back and do it again. One poster has returned and been ejected quicker than you can say ‘Leeds have fallen apart again’.
Exiled to the Pinkun is the only fitting punishment. |  | | |
| Board divisiveness on 10:02 - May 31 with 11659 views | Herbivore |
Ideally you wouldn't need to use it, but some sort of naughty step might be a good way to go. If posters are sniping or stoking division, a week on the naughty step to cool off and reflect on their behaviour might not be a bad way to go. Those who really overstep the line that serve longer/permanent bans but short sharp shocks might stamp out some of the petty stuff. |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:03 - May 31 with 11634 views | DJR |
| Board divisiveness on 09:52 - May 31 by nodge_blue |
Phil - you have been here numerous times. And frankly will be again.
You could stop the non football threads entirely for a period?
It all seems a bit draconian as you say, but I can understand you have a job to do and cant be policing things all the time that are often in shades of grey and you need a jury to decide who is right and wrong etc. |
Stopping the non-football threads, especially at the time of an election, would be a shame.
The "A broad church" thread, for example, has been a good and constructive one, with no rancour. [Post edited 31 May 2024 10:03]
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| Board divisiveness on 10:04 - May 31 with 11623 views | wkj |
For my input, I have mostly tried to be a parody of myself when things get heated or touchy on the board, as well as signalling when people seem to appear like they're being dick heads towards someone else.
Tribalism is the name of the game in all facets of life, but in all honesty - the moment someone makes mention of someone else in a defamatory way or snidey on the side and it has absolutely no context to the post (and in some cases, the poster being called out or shat on isn't even part of that post) - then they need a clip round the ear.
I think people who are regularly in conflict with one another should be requested to use the ignore feature for that person and if that advice isn't headed then they're ignoring the admin's desire - from there it becomes up to you if you want to enforce anything. Some will say the site is unusable when you block someone, which it isn't ideal, but when the same groups of people go back and forward - the site becomes unusable for a number more people.
In short though, there is a lot of "edgy" prodding that would make a highschooler embarrassed. If people can't use the ignore feature, or moderate themselves - then they roll the dice imho.
FWIW, I am in no way innocent during my illustrious career, although I think I have tapered off quite a lot over recent years - but one thing is true now as it always has been - if someone isn't happy about something I have said, then tell me in a private message and I will treat the issue with dignity and use it to better moderate myself.
It really isn't that hard, just stop relying on the court of public opinion to validate your position in a personal conflict. |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:05 - May 31 with 11592 views | giant_stow |
| Board divisiveness on 10:02 - May 31 by Herbivore |
Ideally you wouldn't need to use it, but some sort of naughty step might be a good way to go. If posters are sniping or stoking division, a week on the naughty step to cool off and reflect on their behaviour might not be a bad way to go. Those who really overstep the line that serve longer/permanent bans but short sharp shocks might stamp out some of the petty stuff. |
The trouble with temp bans or naughty steps is that Phil then always has to be judge / still has to get involved. Just let it run, but in a place where others can ignore. | |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:07 - May 31 with 11516 views | wkj |
| Board divisiveness on 10:05 - May 31 by giant_stow |
The trouble with temp bans or naughty steps is that Phil then always has to be judge / still has to get involved. Just let it run, but in a place where others can ignore. |
In all honesty, it sounds like that is the way it is already as far has 'having to judge" | |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:08 - May 31 with 11505 views | Ryorry |
| Board divisiveness on 10:00 - May 31 by giant_stow |
I think, for what's it worth, the rows continue because they never have a chance to burn themselves out. I don't know how complicated it would be for gav to the add a 'bust up' tab/filter but if we're fairly easy, I'd do that and put all the threads involved there and let them run. [Post edited 31 May 2024 10:03]
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Separate ‘Archive’ section that only those who actually wanted to see it, would? Interesting, could work.
Edit - in light of some of the comments above, ‘participants’ would have to accept it’s unmoderated, no abuse button, and open to members only ( though I guess that would screw advertising, so might not be worth it from Administrators pov). [Post edited 31 May 2024 10:16]
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| Board divisiveness on 10:09 - May 31 with 11490 views | Herbivore |
| Board divisiveness on 10:05 - May 31 by giant_stow |
The trouble with temp bans or naughty steps is that Phil then always has to be judge / still has to get involved. Just let it run, but in a place where others can ignore. |
True. Maybe a "pointless sniping" thread where the culprits can de-camp to and continue hashing out their differences without de-railing the main thread? | |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:12 - May 31 with 11450 views | blueasfook |
| Board divisiveness on 10:04 - May 31 by wkj |
For my input, I have mostly tried to be a parody of myself when things get heated or touchy on the board, as well as signalling when people seem to appear like they're being dick heads towards someone else.
Tribalism is the name of the game in all facets of life, but in all honesty - the moment someone makes mention of someone else in a defamatory way or snidey on the side and it has absolutely no context to the post (and in some cases, the poster being called out or shat on isn't even part of that post) - then they need a clip round the ear.
I think people who are regularly in conflict with one another should be requested to use the ignore feature for that person and if that advice isn't headed then they're ignoring the admin's desire - from there it becomes up to you if you want to enforce anything. Some will say the site is unusable when you block someone, which it isn't ideal, but when the same groups of people go back and forward - the site becomes unusable for a number more people.
In short though, there is a lot of "edgy" prodding that would make a highschooler embarrassed. If people can't use the ignore feature, or moderate themselves - then they roll the dice imho.
FWIW, I am in no way innocent during my illustrious career, although I think I have tapered off quite a lot over recent years - but one thing is true now as it always has been - if someone isn't happy about something I have said, then tell me in a private message and I will treat the issue with dignity and use it to better moderate myself.
It really isn't that hard, just stop relying on the court of public opinion to validate your position in a personal conflict. |
Good point in your second paragraph. I got involved in a spat the other evening because my name was mentioned in a derogatory way on a thread I wasn't even involved in. Just plain baiting and there is one particular poster who does it constantly. I've put said poster back on ignore now so won't get sucked into it any more |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:12 - May 31 with 11430 views | Pencilpete |
| Board divisiveness on 10:07 - May 31 by wkj |
In all honesty, it sounds like that is the way it is already as far has 'having to judge" |
I'm not a massive poster on here but the other week i had someone literally responding to every post i made calling me ridiculous ... so i asked them to elaborate on why they thought i was being ridiculous - they didn't for ages i just got "cos you are being ridiculous"
That sort of stuff i don't like - if you don't agree then you don't agree, lets have a debate about it
I also don't post or comment on anything other than football / ITFC - my opinion is that this is a football message board and anything political doesn't have a place here but thats just my opinion | | | |
| Board divisiveness on 10:14 - May 31 with 11388 views | garyinavault |
Imo this is part and parcel of having such an open and free forum. I have never used the block functions here and frankly only really lurk, but maybe you can remind people that others can be blocked if they do not like what they say? Maybe make it so their posts cannot be seen once blocked? | | | |
| Board divisiveness on 10:15 - May 31 with 11378 views | CoachRob |
| Board divisiveness on 10:09 - May 31 by Herbivore |
True. Maybe a "pointless sniping" thread where the culprits can de-camp to and continue hashing out their differences without de-railing the main thread? |
This would be good as it always seems a shame when people go to the trouble of writing reems and reems and their posts are taken down when the thread is removed because one of the usual suspects is kicking off. |  | | |
| Board divisiveness on 10:18 - May 31 with 11290 views | BiGDonnie |
PM me all the accused addresses. I’ll sort em for ya. |  |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:20 - May 31 with 11225 views | lowhouseblue |
| Board divisiveness on 10:00 - May 31 by giant_stow |
I think, for what's it worth, the rows continue because they never have a chance to burn themselves out. I don't know how complicated it would be for gav to the add a 'bust up' tab/filter but if we're fairly easy, I'd do that and put all the threads involved there and let them run. [Post edited 31 May 2024 10:03]
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i don't think it's always the big stuff that's the problem. people disagree, they post increasingly vitriolic and opinionated stuff at each other, the a thread descends into chaos. just about everyone does it now and again (i suspect you are genuinely the exception). but on those threads it's all for show, if you don't want to be involved then move on. the stuff that does more harm is the posters who just go from thread to thread goading and sniping and baiting - it's all petty, but they target the same posters all the time. none of it is big by itself but it's pretty relentless. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:20 - May 31 with 11213 views | wkj |
| Board divisiveness on 10:12 - May 31 by Pencilpete |
I'm not a massive poster on here but the other week i had someone literally responding to every post i made calling me ridiculous ... so i asked them to elaborate on why they thought i was being ridiculous - they didn't for ages i just got "cos you are being ridiculous"
That sort of stuff i don't like - if you don't agree then you don't agree, lets have a debate about it
I also don't post or comment on anything other than football / ITFC - my opinion is that this is a football message board and anything political doesn't have a place here but thats just my opinion |
That has been going on for donkeys years on here, both in footy and general posts. There are some people who have said ridiculous things on here and have been called out, but you are quite right that without any context "you're being ridiculous" is a waste of everybody's time - including the person who said it.
The general vs football debate has been going on for decades on TWTD. I think having a general and football division is good, but the way that the TWTD forum is structured makes it a bit disorganised at times, especially when people post under the wrong filter.
Though one thing is clear to me, and that is debates under the general filter have become progressively more aggressive as years go by. And despite bans and rejoicing that the board will be better with X Y and Z being banned, the board doesn't get any better at all. | |
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| Board divisiveness on 10:21 - May 31 with 11210 views | Dubtractor |
Ha. You must get pretty fed up of making this same point on a weekly basis.
I'm sure the main offenders will take the request on board this time. |  |
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