| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending 18:14 - Jul 29 with 5918 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
The Tories say that’s nonsense.
I’m not sure what it is about the last 14 years that gives the Tory Party the sense that we’ll believe anything they say. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 18:15]
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:09 - Jul 29 with 4085 views | Swansea_Blue |
Do you reckon the Tories NI giveaway of £20BN per year (conveniently the same size as the black hole) followed by the snap GE was deliberate, knowing it would cause Labour difficulties? It seems a bit of a coincidence to me and I wouldn’t put it past the Tories fecking us all over to play politics (as proven by their track record). But I’m wondering if that’s veering into conspiracy theory territory. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:24 - Jul 29 with 4039 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:09 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Do you reckon the Tories NI giveaway of £20BN per year (conveniently the same size as the black hole) followed by the snap GE was deliberate, knowing it would cause Labour difficulties? It seems a bit of a coincidence to me and I wouldn’t put it past the Tories fecking us all over to play politics (as proven by their track record). But I’m wondering if that’s veering into conspiracy theory territory. |
Nope I think you are more than likely correct. They knew they had less chance of winning the election than Norwich winning a trophy. Therefore it was a scorched earth policy on their way out… |  | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:27 - Jul 29 with 4033 views | Zx1988 |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:09 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Do you reckon the Tories NI giveaway of £20BN per year (conveniently the same size as the black hole) followed by the snap GE was deliberate, knowing it would cause Labour difficulties? It seems a bit of a coincidence to me and I wouldn’t put it past the Tories fecking us all over to play politics (as proven by their track record). But I’m wondering if that’s veering into conspiracy theory territory. |
They've been doing it in other areas as well.
The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Act, for example - the underpinning legislation has been passed, but not the Statutory Instruments that would give force to the heftier parts of the Act such as removing marriage value.
The enfranchisement community (and, no doubt, the Tories) have known ever since the Bill was announced, that it would be impossible to remove marriage value in the stated manner. It would interfere with the Human Rights (Article 1) of freeholders, and would be subject to an immediate ECHR challenge which would, most likely, be successful.
They've passed the underpinning legislation, and left the new Government to pick up the mess that will be trying to bring it all into force. They'll likely have to make other adjustments to the premium calculation in order to negate the effect of removing marriage value and, if they don't do it correctly, they'll actually make it even more expensive for those with leases in excess of 80 years to extend their leases. | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:42 - Jul 29 with 3962 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:27 - Jul 29 by Zx1988 |
They've been doing it in other areas as well.
The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Act, for example - the underpinning legislation has been passed, but not the Statutory Instruments that would give force to the heftier parts of the Act such as removing marriage value.
The enfranchisement community (and, no doubt, the Tories) have known ever since the Bill was announced, that it would be impossible to remove marriage value in the stated manner. It would interfere with the Human Rights (Article 1) of freeholders, and would be subject to an immediate ECHR challenge which would, most likely, be successful.
They've passed the underpinning legislation, and left the new Government to pick up the mess that will be trying to bring it all into force. They'll likely have to make other adjustments to the premium calculation in order to negate the effect of removing marriage value and, if they don't do it correctly, they'll actually make it even more expensive for those with leases in excess of 80 years to extend their leases. |
It’s a shame that there don’t seem to be any mechanisms to meaningfully hold governments to account. The ballot box seems to be the only way, but falls well short of what’s needed. There are Ministerial Accountability rules, but that’s largely a circus where they only have to apologise on the record in the HoC for cocking up. And there are public enquiries that are good at pointing out government failures, but again there are no consequences for those failures and the misery caused. Meanwhile, the perpetrators disappear off into the sunset earning £millions on the after dinner speaking circuit or on TV reality shows. | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:48 - Jul 29 with 3944 views | Churchman |
Rachel Reeves and the gang will have been into the Treasury on a number of occasions before the election. They will have seen what OBR had to say about finances. While if the gladly departed scumbags said it was daylight I’d check, my guess is Labour knew exactly what he state of the finances were in the run up to the election.
They’re just doing what every govt has done since god knows when. I hope The Chancellor provides evidence to prove me wrong. |  | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:50 - Jul 29 with 3902 views | Mullet |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:42 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s a shame that there don’t seem to be any mechanisms to meaningfully hold governments to account. The ballot box seems to be the only way, but falls well short of what’s needed. There are Ministerial Accountability rules, but that’s largely a circus where they only have to apologise on the record in the HoC for cocking up. And there are public enquiries that are good at pointing out government failures, but again there are no consequences for those failures and the misery caused. Meanwhile, the perpetrators disappear off into the sunset earning £millions on the after dinner speaking circuit or on TV reality shows. |
Things like the Covid crisis and this show why there should be criminal sanctions readily available for people who govern in such a reckless, preferential and negligent manner. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:55 - Jul 29 with 3873 views | DJR |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:09 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Do you reckon the Tories NI giveaway of £20BN per year (conveniently the same size as the black hole) followed by the snap GE was deliberate, knowing it would cause Labour difficulties? It seems a bit of a coincidence to me and I wouldn’t put it past the Tories fecking us all over to play politics (as proven by their track record). But I’m wondering if that’s veering into conspiracy theory territory. |
That was obvious to everyone, and it should have been obvious to Reeves what she would inherit, not least because of warnings from the IFS coupled with a giveaway.
Where Labour deserve criticism is that they should have been more upfront about things rather than pretending they wouldn't have to cut spending and/or raise taxes but they're now pretending it's all a great surprise to them.
Indeed, if they really wanted to fill what they say is an unexpected black hole they could reverse the Tories' NI cuts. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 19:58]
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:57 - Jul 29 with 3859 views | BloomBlue |
I can not stand Owen Jones, but he was on early with 'told you so'. He even played the evidence of him saying before the election result that 'everyone knows there is a £20b black hole in the finances, but Labour won't say anything until they win the election and then they will use it to blame the Tories and use it as an excuse to introduce austerity'. Here we are, and hence Jones told you so.
Same as the Tory Gov did after Brown's gov spent all the money and left a massive deficit. |  | | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:00 - Jul 29 with 3833 views | DJR |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:57 - Jul 29 by BloomBlue |
I can not stand Owen Jones, but he was on early with 'told you so'. He even played the evidence of him saying before the election result that 'everyone knows there is a £20b black hole in the finances, but Labour won't say anything until they win the election and then they will use it to blame the Tories and use it as an excuse to introduce austerity'. Here we are, and hence Jones told you so.
Same as the Tory Gov did after Brown's gov spent all the money and left a massive deficit. |
I don't like Owen Jones either, but there is a lot in what he says.
Indeed, the IFS said both parties during the election campaign were ignoring difficulty choices on spending and tax that would have to be taken after the election. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 20:02]
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:03 - Jul 29 with 3788 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:48 - Jul 29 by Churchman |
Rachel Reeves and the gang will have been into the Treasury on a number of occasions before the election. They will have seen what OBR had to say about finances. While if the gladly departed scumbags said it was daylight I’d check, my guess is Labour knew exactly what he state of the finances were in the run up to the election.
They’re just doing what every govt has done since god knows when. I hope The Chancellor provides evidence to prove me wrong. |
Not just the OBR:-
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/next-uk-government-faces-credit-rating-challeng
“ Britain's next government will have to tread carefully to avoid jeopardising the country's already diminished credit rating with the public finances under heavy strain, a senior analyst with S&P Global Ratings said.
Maxim Rybnikov, S&P's primary sovereign analyst for the United Kingdom, said whoever wins the election expected later this year will have to balance growing demands for more spending on services such as healthcare with the need to fix the public finances.”
This following two previous downgrades has left the Treasury with no room to manoeuvre. Another sovereign downgrade within weeks of a new Labour administration wouldn’t be great for credibility (not to mention the knock on effect of increased borrowing costs, and frightening off investors. It should have been the Tories leaving a note saying ‘there’s no money left’. Verging on criminal negligence -I’d love to see a thorough audit on the country’s accounts. Highest national debt since post-war and public services in their knees, shocking. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:22 - Jul 29 with 3729 views | mutters |
It's just what any new government does, blame it on the predecessors.
The public finances will have been no surprise to the new government, they had access to all the figures as they are on the public record. They will have been aware and if they were not able to work through the figures before the election it makes you wonder about other things going forward.
Blame blame blame. The cycle continues, it's just a different-coloured rosette who are making the claims. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:24 - Jul 29 with 3709 views | Mullet |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:22 - Jul 29 by mutters |
It's just what any new government does, blame it on the predecessors.
The public finances will have been no surprise to the new government, they had access to all the figures as they are on the public record. They will have been aware and if they were not able to work through the figures before the election it makes you wonder about other things going forward.
Blame blame blame. The cycle continues, it's just a different-coloured rosette who are making the claims. |
Is that fair or even enough of an explanation given what we have seen in the past 14years? I’m not sure it is. Even a generous reading of the Tories doesn’t suggest they’ve spent well, increased living standards, invested in public services etc does it?
When have we had equivalent under Labour? Gordon Brown doesn’t even rich the sides here does it? | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:31 - Jul 29 with 3664 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:22 - Jul 29 by mutters |
It's just what any new government does, blame it on the predecessors.
The public finances will have been no surprise to the new government, they had access to all the figures as they are on the public record. They will have been aware and if they were not able to work through the figures before the election it makes you wonder about other things going forward.
Blame blame blame. The cycle continues, it's just a different-coloured rosette who are making the claims. |
Quite.
If the country is not skint then the government seem to stay in power.
Funny old job. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:35 - Jul 29 with 3644 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:48 - Jul 29 by Churchman |
Rachel Reeves and the gang will have been into the Treasury on a number of occasions before the election. They will have seen what OBR had to say about finances. While if the gladly departed scumbags said it was daylight I’d check, my guess is Labour knew exactly what he state of the finances were in the run up to the election.
They’re just doing what every govt has done since god knows when. I hope The Chancellor provides evidence to prove me wrong. |
When it suits, people often quote the IFS as a credible and independent body. Today the IFS described the idea of a surprise spending hole as ‘not very credible’ – not least because the Office for Budget Responsibility last did a full breakdown of the public finances just five months ago. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:38 - Jul 29 with 3646 views | PhilTWTD |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:22 - Jul 29 by mutters |
It's just what any new government does, blame it on the predecessors.
The public finances will have been no surprise to the new government, they had access to all the figures as they are on the public record. They will have been aware and if they were not able to work through the figures before the election it makes you wonder about other things going forward.
Blame blame blame. The cycle continues, it's just a different-coloured rosette who are making the claims. |
Think it's a bit more than just that in this instance.
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:56 - Jul 29 with 3582 views | mutters |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:38 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Think it's a bit more than just that in this instance.
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Aha very interesting, i hadn't seen this from the OBR. Thanks for sharing. Its pretty daming and takes away my point of Labour "should have known". | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:59 - Jul 29 with 3566 views | mutters |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:24 - Jul 29 by Mullet |
Is that fair or even enough of an explanation given what we have seen in the past 14years? I’m not sure it is. Even a generous reading of the Tories doesn’t suggest they’ve spent well, increased living standards, invested in public services etc does it?
When have we had equivalent under Labour? Gordon Brown doesn’t even rich the sides here does it? |
No i wasn't saying or defending that the money has been well spent over the last decade and a half, just that the incoming government should have been aware of the financial situation. However, based on the post by Phil above I see that there was more to the public finances than what could be seen. It sounds pretty dire.
One of my points still stands though, each successive government will always blame their predecessors | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 21:08 - Jul 29 with 3530 views | Mullet |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:59 - Jul 29 by mutters |
No i wasn't saying or defending that the money has been well spent over the last decade and a half, just that the incoming government should have been aware of the financial situation. However, based on the post by Phil above I see that there was more to the public finances than what could be seen. It sounds pretty dire.
One of my points still stands though, each successive government will always blame their predecessors |
I think the flagrant and open corruption we saw ramping up, especially in the last few years tell us this wasn’t “normal” in terms of that discourse.
Did Atlee blame the war time coalition for example? I’d say that’s the end of the spectrum we work from towards Boris and Sunak et al. | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 21:19 - Jul 29 with 3476 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:38 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Think it's a bit more than just that in this instance.
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Interesting. You would of course expect an incoming government to criticise the last on (ref exploiting the infamous “there’s no money left” note). It’s also possible that an incoming government could be surprised by what they inherit. That letter seems to confirm the latter. And both positions could be true at the same time of course.
The Tories and their media puppets are sticking to the tax line, which convinces me even more that the NI cut was a scorched earth action. They’re desperate for Labour to raise taxes. | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 21:28 - Jul 29 with 3434 views | BlueBadger |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:31 - Jul 29 by Lord_Lucan |
Quite.
If the country is not skint then the government seem to stay in power.
Funny old job. |
It's a testament to the incompetnce of various Labour leaders that the tories have spent 14 years making the country poorer but only really started looking like getting kicked out in 2022. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 22:44 - Jul 29 with 3271 views | Oldsmoker |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 20:38 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Think it's a bit more than just that in this instance.
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This is what I've been reading.
It seems that current year spending sort of balances but they've shoved so much into next year and beyond and then hid next years books.
They've committed Labour to enact an Austerity 3.0 just to get back to square 1.
They've effectively set Labour up to fail. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 23:40 - Jul 29 with 3153 views | NthQldITFC |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:42 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s a shame that there don’t seem to be any mechanisms to meaningfully hold governments to account. The ballot box seems to be the only way, but falls well short of what’s needed. There are Ministerial Accountability rules, but that’s largely a circus where they only have to apologise on the record in the HoC for cocking up. And there are public enquiries that are good at pointing out government failures, but again there are no consequences for those failures and the misery caused. Meanwhile, the perpetrators disappear off into the sunset earning £millions on the after dinner speaking circuit or on TV reality shows. |
There's no accountability, and there probably never has been. These people look after themselves and their kind.
What there used to be to some extent was conscience. And shame. The last mob showed clearly that they have no conscience and no shame. They were never servants of the country and the electorate. They were con-men (and -women), asset stripping the UK and feeding their gluttonous porcine friends.
Can we ever have actual accountability? |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 00:23 - Jul 30 with 3078 views | Europablue |
It seems to me that Labour have prioritized giving above inflation pay rises to public sector workers while at the same time looking to increase taxes and cancel infrastructure projects. Of course they will say that it was the last guy's fault as all politicians do.
It has been proven that we will always find money somehow if the political imperative is high enough. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:29 - Jul 30 with 2760 views | davblue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 21:19 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Interesting. You would of course expect an incoming government to criticise the last on (ref exploiting the infamous “there’s no money left” note). It’s also possible that an incoming government could be surprised by what they inherit. That letter seems to confirm the latter. And both positions could be true at the same time of course.
The Tories and their media puppets are sticking to the tax line, which convinces me even more that the NI cut was a scorched earth action. They’re desperate for Labour to raise taxes. |
Playing Politics with our money.
Shame on them. |  | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:31 - Jul 30 with 2691 views | pointofblue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 22:44 - Jul 29 by Oldsmoker |
This is what I've been reading.
It seems that current year spending sort of balances but they've shoved so much into next year and beyond and then hid next years books.
They've committed Labour to enact an Austerity 3.0 just to get back to square 1.
They've effectively set Labour up to fail. |
Only if Labour fall into the trap, which they seem more than willing to do. Why not increase taxes on those who can afford it and paint the Tories into the corner when they subsequently try and defend their mates? | |
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