| Junker rules out extension. 14:31 - Oct 17 with 15605 views | hampstead_blue |
Looks like it's Boris's deal or No Deal.
That should focus their minds tomorrow. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Junker rules out extension. on 15:33 - Oct 17 with 1709 views | StokieBlue |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:32 - Oct 17 by homer_123 |
Look how easy it is to leave the EU..... |
It's easy if the whole country is behind it. We don't know if that would have been the case for Greece but if there is a majority then there is little the EU can do. Even now it's not the EU stopping us leaving - it's us not being able to agree what we want to do.
SB |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 15:37 - Oct 17 with 1695 views | homer_123 |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:33 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue |
It's easy if the whole country is behind it. We don't know if that would have been the case for Greece but if there is a majority then there is little the EU can do. Even now it's not the EU stopping us leaving - it's us not being able to agree what we want to do.
SB |
Greece would, likely, have been in the same situation though. |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 15:43 - Oct 17 with 1670 views | Mookamoo |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:21 - Oct 17 by ZedRodgers |
It will be perceived and reported as Junker doing Johnson a favour but it should be obvious that the EU will do what they can to persuade the UK that this deal (that they are content with) should be passed.
I don't buy in to this now being the win/win situation for Johnson that some have suggested though. I agree that this kind of pressure from the EU increases the risk of the worst possible outcome but if the deal is voted down and an extension is rejected, our majority-remain parliament will be faced with accepting no deal or attempting to revoke Article 50.
I can't see the likes of Benn and Cherry admitting defeat at that point, or that they'll consider attempting to revoke Article 50 to be off-limits. It's difficult to say whether revoke will have legs at that point but who knows what could happen when we're staring down the barrel. |
Can they look to revoke Article 50 on the basis on offering the country a choice of the Boris deal or Remain in a second referendum, thus taking the choice of an 'extension' out of the hands of the EU? |  | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:46 - Oct 17 with 1659 views | linhdi |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:43 - Oct 17 by Mookamoo |
Can they look to revoke Article 50 on the basis on offering the country a choice of the Boris deal or Remain in a second referendum, thus taking the choice of an 'extension' out of the hands of the EU? |
That's too sensible ERG would collectively explode if that happened. |  | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:50 - Oct 17 with 1645 views | Mookamoo |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:46 - Oct 17 by linhdi |
That's too sensible ERG would collectively explode if that happened. |
But if thats the only option for Benn and the rest of the remainers, then could they not buddy up and make the ERG irrelevant?
I think what I'm trying to work out is if Article 50 is the responsibility of Government or Parliament. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 15:50]
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| Junker rules out extension. on 16:47 - Oct 17 with 1590 views | WeWereZombies |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:50 - Oct 17 by Mookamoo |
But if thats the only option for Benn and the rest of the remainers, then could they not buddy up and make the ERG irrelevant?
I think what I'm trying to work out is if Article 50 is the responsibility of Government or Parliament. [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 15:50]
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That second sentence might be the nub of the argument now, I think it is the Government who are responsible for invoking and revoking Article 50. Theresa May seemed to invoke it almost as her own act, so Parliament could vote to revoke but find Johnson unwilling to do so. In which circumstances that vote of no confidence would finally emerge and a General Election is called.
Which would not stop the European Union booting us out on the 31st October.
Cold comfort that the DUP and, maybe, the ERG have been sidelined on the same day. |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 18:04 - Oct 17 with 1548 views | Oxford_Blue |
He’s said that (or other leading EU leaders have) repeatedly before then agreeing to an extension | | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 18:26 - Oct 17 with 1530 views | nodge_blue |
He gave a soundbite in a passing moment. It won’t stick. And tusk contradicted it soon after. |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 19:03 - Oct 17 with 1499 views | Kievthegreat |
| Junker rules out extension. on 18:26 - Oct 17 by nodge_blue |
He gave a soundbite in a passing moment. It won’t stick. And tusk contradicted it soon after. |
It especially wont stick as it's not Juncker's decision and he has no say in the matter. |  | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 19:19 - Oct 17 with 1483 views | BlueBoots |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:43 - Oct 17 by Mookamoo |
Can they look to revoke Article 50 on the basis on offering the country a choice of the Boris deal or Remain in a second referendum, thus taking the choice of an 'extension' out of the hands of the EU? |
From the BBC News website...
"The European Court of Justice (ECJ) ruling last year confirmed that the UK could revoke Article 50 itself, without having to ask the other 27 EU countries for permission.
This could be done by writing a letter to the European Council, made up of EU heads of state.
The ECJ said the UK would then remain a member of the EU on the same terms - as it has now - including keeping its budget rebate.
But it did set some conditions.
The ruling said revocation should be "unequivocal and unconditional", suggesting that the UK could not simply revoke Article 50 in order to buy more time and then resubmit it at a later date.
A senior lawyer at the ECJ said that "appropriate legal instruments" could be used if a member state tried to trigger and revoke Article 50 in order to secure a better withdrawal deal. "
My understanding is that we would need to ask the EU for an extension to hold a referendum after October 31st, and that it would only take one member state to veto that request to leave us crashing out with a No-deal Brexit... [Post edited 17 Oct 2019 19:22]
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| Junker rules out extension. on 19:33 - Oct 17 with 1473 views | jas0999 |
The problem remains:
Labour won’t back any deal
Labour won’t back no deal.
Okay - fair enough, therefore we need an election ... but
Labour won’t back an election.
Which begs the question, what will Labour back? This could go on for years. | | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 19:37 - Oct 17 with 1466 views | WeWereZombies |
| Junker rules out extension. on 19:33 - Oct 17 by jas0999 |
The problem remains:
Labour won’t back any deal
Labour won’t back no deal.
Okay - fair enough, therefore we need an election ... but
Labour won’t back an election.
Which begs the question, what will Labour back? This could go on for years. |
I think Johnson is about to do a deal with the SNP... | |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 19:37 - Oct 17 with 1464 views | No9 |
The EU is a democratic institution = it's not his decision | | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 20:07 - Oct 17 with 1449 views | jas0999 |
| Junker rules out extension. on 19:37 - Oct 17 by WeWereZombies |
I think Johnson is about to do a deal with the SNP... |
Ha ha | | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 20:29 - Oct 17 with 1441 views | itfcjoe |
| Junker rules out extension. on 19:33 - Oct 17 by jas0999 |
The problem remains:
Labour won’t back any deal
Labour won’t back no deal.
Okay - fair enough, therefore we need an election ... but
Labour won’t back an election.
Which begs the question, what will Labour back? This could go on for years. |
They will back an election post October 31st |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 21:21 - Oct 17 with 1400 views | BlueBadger |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:46 - Oct 17 by linhdi |
That's too sensible ERG would collectively explode if that happened. |
I'm sure we all have our fingers crossed. |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 21:22 - Oct 17 with 1401 views | BlueBadger |
| Junker rules out extension. on 16:47 - Oct 17 by WeWereZombies |
That second sentence might be the nub of the argument now, I think it is the Government who are responsible for invoking and revoking Article 50. Theresa May seemed to invoke it almost as her own act, so Parliament could vote to revoke but find Johnson unwilling to do so. In which circumstances that vote of no confidence would finally emerge and a General Election is called.
Which would not stop the European Union booting us out on the 31st October.
Cold comfort that the DUP and, maybe, the ERG have been sidelined on the same day. |
That's the main good thing to come out of time. Two showers of vile old bigots have been effectively sidelined. | |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 22:04 - Oct 17 with 1381 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Junker rules out extension. on 15:21 - Oct 17 by ZedRodgers |
It will be perceived and reported as Junker doing Johnson a favour but it should be obvious that the EU will do what they can to persuade the UK that this deal (that they are content with) should be passed.
I don't buy in to this now being the win/win situation for Johnson that some have suggested though. I agree that this kind of pressure from the EU increases the risk of the worst possible outcome but if the deal is voted down and an extension is rejected, our majority-remain parliament will be faced with accepting no deal or attempting to revoke Article 50.
I can't see the likes of Benn and Cherry admitting defeat at that point, or that they'll consider attempting to revoke Article 50 to be off-limits. It's difficult to say whether revoke will have legs at that point but who knows what could happen when we're staring down the barrel. |
Well at least Boris got a stonking deal. Oh...
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| Junker rules out extension. on 01:05 - Oct 18 with 1332 views | tractordownsouth |
| Junker rules out extension. on 14:35 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue |
“ as No Deal screws Ireland badly.”
So taking it off the table was a poor strategy. |
The damage No Deal does to us will be much greater than the damage it causes to the EU. Using it as a negotiating strategy is like saying “ Give us what you want or we’ll slap you in the face and slap ourselves in the face 5 times” |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 06:09 - Oct 18 with 1284 views | BlueRaider |
| Junker rules out extension. on 14:37 - Oct 17 by ElderGrizzly |
Not really as the EU would never let it happen |
So of course taking no deal off the table was a bad strategy, if the EU would not let it happen, making them think we would was the best way of getting the best possible deal | |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 06:15 - Oct 18 with 1280 views | jeera |
| Junker rules out extension. on 06:09 - Oct 18 by BlueRaider |
So of course taking no deal off the table was a bad strategy, if the EU would not let it happen, making them think we would was the best way of getting the best possible deal |
This is the problem.
The WA is supposed to be an agreement - not a threat.
We are not at war. |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 06:17 - Oct 18 with 1279 views | Steve_M |
| Junker rules out extension. on 14:35 - Oct 17 by GlasgowBlue |
“ as No Deal screws Ireland badly.”
So taking it off the table was a poor strategy. |
But not as badly as it screws the UK. |  |
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| Junker rules out extension. on 07:21 - Oct 18 with 1241 views | No9 |
| Junker rules out extension. on 06:17 - Oct 18 by Steve_M |
But not as badly as it screws the UK. |
This is going to be very bad for British Industry & farmers | | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 07:23 - Oct 18 with 1236 views | jjblue84 |
| Junker rules out extension. on 06:15 - Oct 18 by jeera |
This is the problem.
The WA is supposed to be an agreement - not a threat.
We are not at war. |
We will be if Parliament goes against the people again, everyone knows this is the last chance! |  | | |
| Junker rules out extension. on 07:24 - Oct 18 with 1235 views | itfcjoe |
| Junker rules out extension. on 07:23 - Oct 18 by jjblue84 |
We will be if Parliament goes against the people again, everyone knows this is the last chance! |
Why will they sign up to Johnson’s Surrender Deal? | |
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