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Cancel culture 08:25 - Jul 8 with 20165 viewshampstead_blue

Interesting and good that people with a voice are standing up to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53330105

A lawyer on Today even floated the idea of cancelling ALL historical statues, paintings, and physical memorials because 'standards change and people whom today seem great may be hiding dark secrets'
Bonkers.

Am all for free speech. Owen Jones and his cabal can scream "offence" until their lungs turn inside out. Makes my blood boil if you hadn't guessed.

Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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Cancel culture on 18:23 - Jul 8 with 1284 viewslowhouseblue

Cancel culture on 17:17 - Jul 8 by Herbivore

Yes, much in the same way that my lived experience as a straight white man will be distinct from the lived experience of a gay man or a Black man. We all still manage to share a changing room though.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2020 17:21]


but do biological women ever get a say in this? what if they don't want to share spaces with people with penises? why doesn't the view of biological women matter?

and what about lesbians who don't believe that trans women are women and aren't attracted to them again because of the penis issue. does that make lesbians transphobic?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Cancel culture on 18:24 - Jul 8 with 1282 viewslowhouseblue

Cancel culture on 17:18 - Jul 8 by SpruceMoose

Oh and by the way Mr Bigly Brain... there's a difference between 'latter' and 'later'.

A less generous person might ask who the real 'thicky' is here, seeing as you're going to question the intelligence of others. If you do that, then stuff like that is important don't you think?
[Post edited 8 Jul 2020 17:19]


oh well done, you get a little gold star for spelling at least. taking part in discussions, well not so much.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Cancel culture on 18:35 - Jul 8 with 1252 viewsSpruceMoose

Cancel culture on 18:24 - Jul 8 by lowhouseblue

oh well done, you get a little gold star for spelling at least. taking part in discussions, well not so much.


Dry your pants mate.

Pronouns: He/Him/His. "Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
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Cancel culture on 19:09 - Jul 8 with 1205 viewsHerbivore

Cancel culture on 18:23 - Jul 8 by lowhouseblue

but do biological women ever get a say in this? what if they don't want to share spaces with people with penises? why doesn't the view of biological women matter?

and what about lesbians who don't believe that trans women are women and aren't attracted to them again because of the penis issue. does that make lesbians transphobic?


Replace biological women with straight white men and trans women with gay men or Black men and see how that scans.

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Cancel culture on 19:11 - Jul 8 with 1205 viewsTrequartista

Well, well, well, something i've been banging on about for awhile. I mentioned woke culture on here and got accused of being some sort of racist apologist and/or bigot for using the 'w' word, now being referenced here by that famous right-winger *checks notes* Barack Obama.

Owen Jones is a good person and an intelligent person, but his dogma just infuriates. For example, he stands up for trans rights, absolutely behind that, but the issue is complex when it conflicts with womens rights and err the truth about human beings, but instead he doesn't debate, shouts trans rights even louder and piles on those who don't comply.

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Cancel culture on 19:13 - Jul 8 with 1193 viewslowhouseblue

Cancel culture on 19:09 - Jul 8 by Herbivore

Replace biological women with straight white men and trans women with gay men or Black men and see how that scans.


that's lovely, but why don't the views of biological women matter? why is that people with penises always have the final say?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Cancel culture on 19:14 - Jul 8 with 1178 viewsSpruceMoose

Cancel culture on 19:13 - Jul 8 by lowhouseblue

that's lovely, but why don't the views of biological women matter? why is that people with penises always have the final say?


Yet again, nobody is saying that.

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Cancel culture on 19:15 - Jul 8 with 1179 viewsLankHenners

Cancel culture on 19:13 - Jul 8 by lowhouseblue

that's lovely, but why don't the views of biological women matter? why is that people with penises always have the final say?


The views of cis women do matter. Do you think that every cis women's views align with JK Rowling's?

Women can have different opinions on things. Bit misogynistic for you to suggest otherwise.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2020 19:22]

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Cancel culture on 19:16 - Jul 8 with 1172 viewsHerbivore

Cancel culture on 19:13 - Jul 8 by lowhouseblue

that's lovely, but why don't the views of biological women matter? why is that people with penises always have the final say?


Replace biological women with straight white men and refer back to the previous example and see how it scans again. And in any case, nobody is saying cis women shouldn't be listened to.

Also you're basically implying that you think trans women are men, which is pretty offensive to trans women. I can see exactly what you're doing by consistently referring to them as people with penises. It's very transparent and very transphobic.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2020 19:19]

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Cancel culture on 19:18 - Jul 8 with 1156 viewsHerbivore

Cancel culture on 19:15 - Jul 8 by LankHenners

The views of cis women do matter. Do you think that every cis women's views align with JK Rowling's?

Women can have different opinions on things. Bit misogynistic for you to suggest otherwise.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2020 19:22]


Lowers has joined Ryorry as spokesperson for all of womankind. He's also creating strawmen all over the shop. He's also demonstrating some pretty clear transphobia, which is a shame.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2020 19:20]

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Cancel culture on 19:22 - Jul 8 with 1135 viewsSpruceMoose

Cancel culture on 19:16 - Jul 8 by Herbivore

Replace biological women with straight white men and refer back to the previous example and see how it scans again. And in any case, nobody is saying cis women shouldn't be listened to.

Also you're basically implying that you think trans women are men, which is pretty offensive to trans women. I can see exactly what you're doing by consistently referring to them as people with penises. It's very transparent and very transphobic.
[Post edited 8 Jul 2020 19:19]


I think the time has come to just place Lowie into the 'Irrelevant - downvote and move on' category alongside such other great thinkers as Jonnosdreadlocks.

There's nothing of any substance to be uncovered with this one.

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Cancel culture on 19:26 - Jul 8 with 1108 viewsHerbivore

Cancel culture on 19:22 - Jul 8 by SpruceMoose

I think the time has come to just place Lowie into the 'Irrelevant - downvote and move on' category alongside such other great thinkers as Jonnosdreadlocks.

There's nothing of any substance to be uncovered with this one.


I think they're just very, very selective in which groups they give a toss about. Which does rather place them in the Jonno category I guess.

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Cancel culture on 19:57 - Jul 8 with 1068 viewsitfcjoe

Cancel culture on 13:47 - Jul 8 by Ryorry

I've described the actual experiences and feelings of tens of millions of women, inluding myself. You've dismissed that as "Daily Mail trans-phobic whatabouttery".


I agree with you Ryorry, it feels like men just once again exerting their privilege over women.

And any women who says anything like this is called a TERF, by men.

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Cancel culture on 20:04 - Jul 8 with 1062 viewsfooters

Cancel culture on 17:51 - Jul 8 by footers

Let's be honest. The argument on this essentially centres around only one part of the trans community: male-to-female, pre-op.

Would the objecting posters be worried about men sharing a toilet with female-to-male, post ops?

Or would women be bothered about sharing a toilet with a male-to-female, post op?

Let's call it for what it is, at least. And if that is the only 'troublesome' group, then how about a bathroom just for them until they get it cut off?


Might I just point out in relation to this... You've been sharing bathrooms and changing rooms with trans people in the UK for more than one hundred years.

Has there been a spate of trans on cis sex attacks that I'm not aware of which is causing such alarm?

Or is it the implication that because more people may be becoming trans there will be an increase of the above?

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Cancel culture on 20:06 - Jul 8 with 1050 viewsLankHenners

Cancel culture on 19:57 - Jul 8 by itfcjoe

I agree with you Ryorry, it feels like men just once again exerting their privilege over women.

And any women who says anything like this is called a TERF, by men.


Where's this narrative that only men are pushing back against this, and that only women are being called 'terfs' come from?

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Cancel culture on 20:08 - Jul 8 with 1035 viewsitfcjoe

Cancel culture on 20:06 - Jul 8 by LankHenners

Where's this narrative that only men are pushing back against this, and that only women are being called 'terfs' come from?


Very few men are described as radical feminists

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Cancel culture on 20:12 - Jul 8 with 1020 viewsLankHenners

Cancel culture on 20:08 - Jul 8 by itfcjoe

Very few men are described as radical feminists


A lot of people have a problem with 'terf' because of those last 2 initials, but as it's the label people use, it becomes a catch-all for transphobic viewpoints.

Not sure what that has to do with my question anyway.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Cancel culture on 20:18 - Jul 8 with 988 viewseastangliaisblue

Cancel culture on 20:12 - Jul 8 by LankHenners

A lot of people have a problem with 'terf' because of those last 2 initials, but as it's the label people use, it becomes a catch-all for transphobic viewpoints.

Not sure what that has to do with my question anyway.


Excuse my ignorance, what does terf mean?
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Cancel culture on 20:18 - Jul 8 with 988 viewsitfcjoe

Cancel culture on 20:12 - Jul 8 by LankHenners

A lot of people have a problem with 'terf' because of those last 2 initials, but as it's the label people use, it becomes a catch-all for transphobic viewpoints.

Not sure what that has to do with my question anyway.


"that only women are being called 'terfs' come from?"

I very rarely dip into Trans Twitter but generally it is a woman making a relatively reasonable point of view - i.e. I say I'm a lesbian on a dating app and have lots of pre-op trans people try and match with me, and then get described as a TERF by all and sundry.

Or someone like Ryorry has here, or JK Rowling, say that a women's safe space is important due to lived experiences, or that using the term 'people that menstruate' is silly and it should just be said women and get jumped on there being called TERFs.

From what I see, and it may just be my own biases at play, it is generally men or trans women who repeat the line trans women are women when asked to look at any seemingly obvious scenarios, like sport, who then throw around the TERF insult

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Cancel culture on 20:28 - Jul 8 with 969 viewsLankHenners

Cancel culture on 20:18 - Jul 8 by itfcjoe

"that only women are being called 'terfs' come from?"

I very rarely dip into Trans Twitter but generally it is a woman making a relatively reasonable point of view - i.e. I say I'm a lesbian on a dating app and have lots of pre-op trans people try and match with me, and then get described as a TERF by all and sundry.

Or someone like Ryorry has here, or JK Rowling, say that a women's safe space is important due to lived experiences, or that using the term 'people that menstruate' is silly and it should just be said women and get jumped on there being called TERFs.

From what I see, and it may just be my own biases at play, it is generally men or trans women who repeat the line trans women are women when asked to look at any seemingly obvious scenarios, like sport, who then throw around the TERF insult


More women get labelled it than men probably fair enough, although I expect cis women would comment more on women's spaces than men.

There's likely to be a bit of a grey area when someone trying to make a genuine point unwittingly aligns themselves with a transphobic viewpoint, or an argument made in bad faith like the prison one for example. The other side to it is people like Rowling using their (very) sizable profile to push transphobic lines of argument and make these bad faith points without listening to trans people's voices. When someone like her then makes a point about women's safe spaces in an innocent way, it gets bundled in with the more explicitly anti-trans stuff, and as such, rightly or wrongly, will get picked up on as someone being transphobic.

Sport is one of those complex examples where you might well run into a problem where cis women are severely disadvantaged but there's no easy or obvious solution. The problem is there's rarely a sensible discussion on it because it often gets talked about insensitively.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Cancel culture on 20:30 - Jul 8 with 967 viewsLankHenners

Cancel culture on 20:18 - Jul 8 by eastangliaisblue

Excuse my ignorance, what does terf mean?


Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. The final two letters make it a rather clunky an ill-fitting label at times but essentially it's used to describe someone being transphobic.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Cancel culture on 20:32 - Jul 8 with 960 viewsitfcjoe

Cancel culture on 20:28 - Jul 8 by LankHenners

More women get labelled it than men probably fair enough, although I expect cis women would comment more on women's spaces than men.

There's likely to be a bit of a grey area when someone trying to make a genuine point unwittingly aligns themselves with a transphobic viewpoint, or an argument made in bad faith like the prison one for example. The other side to it is people like Rowling using their (very) sizable profile to push transphobic lines of argument and make these bad faith points without listening to trans people's voices. When someone like her then makes a point about women's safe spaces in an innocent way, it gets bundled in with the more explicitly anti-trans stuff, and as such, rightly or wrongly, will get picked up on as someone being transphobic.

Sport is one of those complex examples where you might well run into a problem where cis women are severely disadvantaged but there's no easy or obvious solution. The problem is there's rarely a sensible discussion on it because it often gets talked about insensitively.


There is an easy and obvious solution to sport though, people just don't say it as fear they'll be labelled transphobic.

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Cancel culture on 20:37 - Jul 8 with 935 viewsEwan_Oozami

Cancel culture on 20:18 - Jul 8 by itfcjoe

"that only women are being called 'terfs' come from?"

I very rarely dip into Trans Twitter but generally it is a woman making a relatively reasonable point of view - i.e. I say I'm a lesbian on a dating app and have lots of pre-op trans people try and match with me, and then get described as a TERF by all and sundry.

Or someone like Ryorry has here, or JK Rowling, say that a women's safe space is important due to lived experiences, or that using the term 'people that menstruate' is silly and it should just be said women and get jumped on there being called TERFs.

From what I see, and it may just be my own biases at play, it is generally men or trans women who repeat the line trans women are women when asked to look at any seemingly obvious scenarios, like sport, who then throw around the TERF insult


This seems a suitable place to post something from Trans Twitter (apols if already posted - this is a long forum thread after all!) which I think sums up the whole issue quite neatly:


You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
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Cancel culture on 20:38 - Jul 8 with 935 viewseastangliaisblue

Cancel culture on 20:30 - Jul 8 by LankHenners

Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. The final two letters make it a rather clunky an ill-fitting label at times but essentially it's used to describe someone being transphobic.


Ah okay, thanks.
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Cancel culture on 20:39 - Jul 8 with 930 viewsLankHenners

Cancel culture on 20:32 - Jul 8 by itfcjoe

There is an easy and obvious solution to sport though, people just don't say it as fear they'll be labelled transphobic.


I hope you're not thinking of 'banning them' as that is transphobic.

Assuming you mean having a separate category you run into the problem of a) having enough olympic (or whatever) level trans athletes for a full program, and b) essentially having a governing body tell trans people who they are or aren't which is difficult to handle sensitively.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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