| I’m in a conundrum... 22:14 - Dec 19 with 8254 views | LeistonBlue |
I live in London and have spent the last 12 days in full isolation (haven’t left the house at all, live on my own), in order to safely travel to my parents who live in Leiston for Christmas. I have also had one negative test two days ago and awaiting the results of another one taken today (private tests, not scrounging off the NHS). Assuming that one comes back negative as well, do I drive to Suffolk on Tuesday as planned safe in the knowledge that I have done everything in my power to not bring the virus with me, or do I follow the rules to the letter and stay in London having Christmas on my own and not seeing my parents who I haven’t seen since February? Thoughts TWTD peeps?? |  | | |  |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:35 - Dec 19 with 3233 views | StokieBlue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:24 - Dec 19 by bluelagos |
It s genuinely worrying the higher infectousness of the new strain. The 2nd wave is with is now, throw in a more infectous strain and I just can't see how the govt couldn't not act.
But I sense a genuine wearyness of the rules, people have had enough. I don't see people being selfish, I see people fed up with it and questioning the low risk to them against a theoretical risk to others. I see people questionning why they cant take their own risks without fully appreciating the risk they are to others. I see it as ignorance rather than indifference to the risks of them spreading the virus. |
I think that's all fair and I fully understand people are weary but here is a question for you:
Is there any excuse for ignorance after 9 months of a pandemic? The detail might be complicated but the overall themes are not. The experts have tried very hard to explain everything in terms that the majority can understand since the pandemic began.
I know it's hard for everyone though so I also understand people analysing the situation in a way that allows them to do the things they want to do. That is in some ways human nature.
SB [Post edited 19 Dec 2020 23:36]
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:35 - Dec 19 with 3231 views | factual_blue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:32 - Dec 19 by itfcpaul |
You can't leave the area you are in. It's the Law |
And, given the number of people leaving London over the next week will plummet dramatically, you're very likely to be challenged. |  |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:36 - Dec 19 with 3228 views | factual_blue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:34 - Dec 19 by SitfcB |
Go. |
Wrong answer. | |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:38 - Dec 19 with 3218 views | Stenvict |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 22:49 - Dec 19 by StokieBlue |
So you've not taken any precautions but you think it's fine to just ignore the law and travel to another area which isn't in tier 4.
It's hard to know what to say to this.
It's like the entire press conference didn't happen. It's not about your risk, it's about you being an unwitting carrier of a new strain to other parts of the country and putting those areas at risk.
SB [Post edited 19 Dec 2020 22:50]
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Look outside, look at the train stations this evening. All these people are in large groups, potentially spreading the virus and distributing it to other regions. This sudden change to Tier 4 is the worse thing Boris could've done as it has resulted in a max exodus of the city.
I'll be driving in my car on my own from London to Suffolk to see 2 family members neither of which are in the vulnerable category.
I would hazard a guess that 90% of the population have broken the 'law' at some point during this pandemic. |  |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:38 - Dec 19 with 3217 views | factual_blue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 22:56 - Dec 19 by LeistonBlue |
Cheers for all the replies/advice everyone.. will wait for the results of the second test and then make a decision I think. Car has a full tank which should easily do London to Suffolk and back, but I’ve never really been one to knowingly break the law. It’s a tricky one! |
I would urge you not to. Testing negative won't cut any ice if you're stopped, and the chances of that are high because most people will obey the law.
Sadly, the fact that' we have always done this sort of thing at Christmas' (apart from not actually being all that true) is irrelevant in the present circumstances. | |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:45 - Dec 19 with 3193 views | bluelagos |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:35 - Dec 19 by StokieBlue |
I think that's all fair and I fully understand people are weary but here is a question for you:
Is there any excuse for ignorance after 9 months of a pandemic? The detail might be complicated but the overall themes are not. The experts have tried very hard to explain everything in terms that the majority can understand since the pandemic began.
I know it's hard for everyone though so I also understand people analysing the situation in a way that allows them to do the things they want to do. That is in some ways human nature.
SB [Post edited 19 Dec 2020 23:36]
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We are talking basically about asymtomatic transmission.
That is a totally new thing for most of us, I know I'd never heard of it before March.
And I thInk you assume most people watches the briefings? . Jo average doesn't watch them and gets his news from the S^n, Star or Mirror. Am guessing they haven't understood at all how they can be a risk without symptoms.
If your news source is FB or twitter (for many it is) then you are not hearing the scientists explanations I guess. |  |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:48 - Dec 19 with 3180 views | Pinewoodblue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:36 - Dec 19 by factual_blue |
Wrong answer. |
But it highlights the problem, which appears to be age related. |  |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 00:29 - Dec 20 with 3120 views | BlueStreak |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:38 - Dec 19 by factual_blue |
I would urge you not to. Testing negative won't cut any ice if you're stopped, and the chances of that are high because most people will obey the law.
Sadly, the fact that' we have always done this sort of thing at Christmas' (apart from not actually being all that true) is irrelevant in the present circumstances. |
You think it is highly likely that he will get stopped in his car on the way to Leiston and back? Have a day off, there will be an absolute minimal chance of that ever happening. |  | | |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 00:48 - Dec 20 with 3097 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:03 - Dec 19 by bluelagos |
How can it be against the law? Laws are made in parliament rather than press conferences. And parliament isn't sitting this week.
Perhaps a legal beagle can clarify? |
One of Boris' many breaches of Parliamentary Sovereignty has been to give Ministers powers to enact legally enforceable rules regarding Covid restrictions, without needing to refer back to Parliament.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/coronavirus-parliamentary-scrutiny-and-lock | | | |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 01:05 - Dec 20 with 3092 views | factual_blue |
It's worth pointing out that SIs have been used for decades; the enabling legislation for the Coronavirus legislation dates from 1984.
In other words, the approach is nothing new. | |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 01:08 - Dec 20 with 3081 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 01:05 - Dec 20 by factual_blue |
It's worth pointing out that SIs have been used for decades; the enabling legislation for the Coronavirus legislation dates from 1984.
In other words, the approach is nothing new. |
But being used by Boris' mob who made much play of "Parliamentary Sovereignty" as the primary reason for Brexit? | | | |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 01:08 - Dec 20 with 3077 views | Ryorry |
But he pwomised us he'd get our sovrinty back, not breach it 
All this for nuffink?
Upset of Tunbridge Wells |  |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 14:01 - Dec 20 with 2968 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 00:29 - Dec 20 by BlueStreak |
You think it is highly likely that he will get stopped in his car on the way to Leiston and back? Have a day off, there will be an absolute minimal chance of that ever happening. |
I wouldn't want to risk it. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 14:48 - Dec 20 with 2947 views | eireblue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 00:29 - Dec 20 by BlueStreak |
You think it is highly likely that he will get stopped in his car on the way to Leiston and back? Have a day off, there will be an absolute minimal chance of that ever happening. |
As an aside, this demonstrates why tougher sentences do not stop crime.
The perception of the likely hood of getting caught is what prevents crime.
Shame we have Government that doesn’t understand that. |  | | |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:04 - Dec 20 with 2930 views | N2_Blue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 23:38 - Dec 19 by Stenvict |
Look outside, look at the train stations this evening. All these people are in large groups, potentially spreading the virus and distributing it to other regions. This sudden change to Tier 4 is the worse thing Boris could've done as it has resulted in a max exodus of the city.
I'll be driving in my car on my own from London to Suffolk to see 2 family members neither of which are in the vulnerable category.
I would hazard a guess that 90% of the population have broken the 'law' at some point during this pandemic. |
I and all of my family have not broken the law at any stage during this pandemic. I think justifying breaking the law because you think 90% of the general population are is not a good view to have and just adds to the general problem of people being selfish at this time.
I'd also suggest its no way near 90%, maybe 1 in 2 |  |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:10 - Dec 20 with 2919 views | Pinewoodblue |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 14:48 - Dec 20 by eireblue |
As an aside, this demonstrates why tougher sentences do not stop crime.
The perception of the likely hood of getting caught is what prevents crime.
Shame we have Government that doesn’t understand that. |
Tougher fixed penalties are not the answer. If you don’t pay there is a chance you will get away with it as the authorities may not be willing to pursue the matter through the courts. If they do take you to court the Magistrates are duty to bound to take into consideration your ability to pay. In the majority of cases the fine will be lower than the fixed penalty and you get time to pay.
The only way to enforce measures is to put the army on the streets and doubt there is the political will to do that. | |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:34 - Dec 20 with 2885 views | Stenvict |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:04 - Dec 20 by N2_Blue |
I and all of my family have not broken the law at any stage during this pandemic. I think justifying breaking the law because you think 90% of the general population are is not a good view to have and just adds to the general problem of people being selfish at this time.
I'd also suggest its no way near 90%, maybe 1 in 2 |
Good for you for adhering to the rules. Personally, I believe that walking from my flat to my car and driving directly, on my own, to Suffolk to be with 2 family members that aren't vulnerable will be a lot less dangerous to the public than what we witnessed at Kings Cross last night.
One is legal and potentially spreading the virus to thousands on a train/platform. The other is illegal, yet extremely unlikely to cause any problems. | |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:40 - Dec 20 with 2873 views | ElderGrizzly |
It would be breaking the law, but what you have done couldn’t be any careful.
Just a warning, the police are actively stopping people to check on journeys both at stations and on roads. Think breathalyser type checks on the side of the road. |  | | |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:41 - Dec 20 with 2873 views | 26_Paz |
Adults who live alone are permitted to leave tier 4 areas to visit their support bubble |  |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:47 - Dec 20 with 2850 views | ElderGrizzly |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:41 - Dec 20 by 26_Paz |
Adults who live alone are permitted to leave tier 4 areas to visit their support bubble |
Paz for once is absolutely correct :) | | | |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:50 - Dec 20 with 2836 views | 26_Paz |
| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:47 - Dec 20 by ElderGrizzly |
Paz for once is absolutely correct :) |
If this gentlemen were to be stopped as some have suggested I would assume once he explains he is visiting his support bubble, in line with the rules he would be allowed on his way | |
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| I’m in a conundrum... on 15:55 - Dec 20 with 2824 views | Churchman |
My sister is doing something very similar including a test and will be with my dad, who is elderly and lives alone, in Waldringfield for Christmas - and until this wave abates. [Post edited 20 Dec 2020 15:56]
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