| What's quite sad 07:32 - Apr 24 with 4872 views | hype313 |
Is that we're seeing people going in early on Cook just so they can win the internet in time, if things go south.
Crying shame that we finally have something we have all been screaming from the rooftops for years about with the new ownership and vision, and ten games in the doomsters are already having misgivings about the manager.
Sir Bob took 13 points from his first 10 games, Burley 10 points from 10 games but everyone at the time gave them the benefit of the doubt, can't understand why Cook isn't given the same given the circumstances around the club and squad. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 09:18 - Apr 24 with 2247 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| What's quite sad on 08:47 - Apr 24 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
If that's the case then you can't blame the manager for anything.
It's the managers job (along with his staff) to coach the players in the corrects way so that the have the confidence, technique and tactical nous to create and take chances.
Of course players will make mistakes, but we can't suggest that a manager can't influence what happens on the pitch. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 09:18 - Apr 24 with 2246 views | TrumptonBlue |
| What's quite sad on 09:14 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
Yeah my maths isn't great first thing in the morning, especially after a few beers last night... |
I should point out that I agree with the sentiment of your OP, despite jumping on your errors like the annoying pedant I am. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 09:20 - Apr 24 with 2232 views | PJH |
| What's quite sad on 09:14 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
Yeah my maths isn't great first thing in the morning, especially after a few beers last night... |
It seems to be an often held fallacy that SBR had a bad start here when his actual start was very good. We then struggled in his first two completed seasons and his third one was not brilliant but his actual start was very good. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 09:21 - Apr 24 with 2231 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| What's quite sad on 08:43 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
I've just edited to post to clarify "what I've heard" is what I've heard from Cook on the official channels - no inside info/gossip or anything along those lines
Whilst you find it incomprehensible that expectation is/was for Cook to transform things (I thought he'd improve us personally and have us right up there for POs but falling short either in getting there or in them).....I find it incomprehensible that people are accepting of how bad we have become since the change, where every week seems to be a newer low, and that all the blame has transferred from Lambert onto the players in it's entirity.
As GB mentioned above, if in Cook's 12 games we'd have won 4, drawn 4 and lost 4 - against the weakest sides in the division, we'd be in the top 6.......when he was appointed did anyone expect him to get less than 16 points in 12 games? I certainly didn't.
He'll rightly get the summer, and I'm excited to see what he and we do - but the confidence levels have definitely dropped. |
It's literally got to the point where some fans find it an acceptable performance if we get a few shots on target. I think a goal is seen as a bonus. | |
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| What's quite sad on 09:23 - Apr 24 with 2213 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| What's quite sad on 08:52 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
I’d have personally preferred Cowley, but was 100% behind in thinking it was an excellent appointment.
Totally behind him for the summer and excited to see the overdue overhaul.....but am I now 100% confident in him having success here......quite frankly no. |
What will prevent him having success with us once he has got a team of his choosing on the pitch, especially when he's done so with other clubs? |  |
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| What's quite sad on 09:25 - Apr 24 with 2200 views | PJH |
| What's quite sad on 09:18 - Apr 24 by TrumptonBlue |
I should point out that I agree with the sentiment of your OP, despite jumping on your errors like the annoying pedant I am. |
As I have just posted, a supposedly bad start by SBR gets mentioned from time to time on here so I am always happy to point out that his actual start was not too bad. I was at a lot of those games and I do not see winning at Arsenal and West Ham and drawing at Spurs and Wolves in those early games as being a bad start. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 9:27]
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| What's quite sad on 09:25 - Apr 24 with 2199 views | Dubtractor |
| What's quite sad on 08:48 - Apr 24 by portmanking |
For my money, it's posts like yours that are creating these two entrenched camps. Cook came into a very unique situation. Taking over a squad that's shot to pieces physically and mentally, whilst a takeover is completed with all the fresh ideas and strategy that goes with that.
Cook has, on multiple occasions, challenged these players to prove they want to be a part of this new era. Time and again they've let him down on the field and on the training ground. They lack the drive to be winners. The last 24 months has proven that. We've been like chocolate teapots at the mere sign of pressure in six-pointers with sides in and around them. To seriously expect Cook to turn this side into consistent winners was folly. We'd been on a slow downward spiral since October. |
Not sure I agree with that first sentence, though very much do with the rest of your post.
Certainly on here I think Joe has been relatively restrained in his comments, probably for fear of exactly what you're accusing him of. Sorry if I'm projecting here a bit Joe!
I'm a poster who was saying Cook was the man for at least 6 months, and repeatedly said how happy I was that he was appointed. I still feel that way. BUT, he has been dreadful so far, and to pretend otherwise is odd. There are huge mitigating factors, the takeover and all that entails, plus the number of players out of contract being the main two. This group of players are a shambles, and I'll be glad to see the back of most of them, but Cook shouldn't get a free pass.
I guess we all just desperately need to season to be over so we can start getting excited by the changes and have the anticipation of a new season and what that brings. This Summer could be one of the most interesting we've had in years, and the new owners, unlike Evans, seem to really have a plan for how to achieve their aims.
The future is bright, alas the present is fooking dismal. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 9:26]
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| What's quite sad on 09:31 - Apr 24 with 2198 views | PhilTWTD |
This does seem to happen with every manager here, to be fair, so someone in a year's time can claim to have been right about them from the start. It's tedious points scoring, as you say. |  | | |
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| What's quite sad on 09:32 - Apr 24 with 2178 views | earlsgreenblue |
| What's quite sad on 08:00 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
I do, he's come in to a sh1tstorm, a completely broken club, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. |
Yes, even rolling the “TURD” twice through the glitter ain’t putting much of a shine on it! |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 09:41 - Apr 24 with 2163 views | pointofblue |
| What's quite sad on 09:31 - Apr 24 by PhilTWTD |
This does seem to happen with every manager here, to be fair, so someone in a year's time can claim to have been right about them from the start. It's tedious points scoring, as you say. |
I think that’s unfair, Phil. Yes, there is a handful of people who seem to think Cook should go which, you’re right, is tedious at this point, and my apologies of you’re solely aiming your post at them.
But the majority who are critical at Cook, including myself, seem to think he should be getting more out of the players, constantly switching who to blame and laying into the players is becoming pointless and tiresome plus are saddened and frustrated that even mediocre form against the league’s bottom sides would have got us into the Play Offs and we’ve failed to do so. HOWEVER he deserves the summer and a chance to rebuild what he has his here, especially with his recent pedigree. | |
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| What's quite sad on 09:46 - Apr 24 with 2142 views | Churchman |
| What's quite sad on 09:25 - Apr 24 by Dubtractor |
Not sure I agree with that first sentence, though very much do with the rest of your post.
Certainly on here I think Joe has been relatively restrained in his comments, probably for fear of exactly what you're accusing him of. Sorry if I'm projecting here a bit Joe!
I'm a poster who was saying Cook was the man for at least 6 months, and repeatedly said how happy I was that he was appointed. I still feel that way. BUT, he has been dreadful so far, and to pretend otherwise is odd. There are huge mitigating factors, the takeover and all that entails, plus the number of players out of contract being the main two. This group of players are a shambles, and I'll be glad to see the back of most of them, but Cook shouldn't get a free pass.
I guess we all just desperately need to season to be over so we can start getting excited by the changes and have the anticipation of a new season and what that brings. This Summer could be one of the most interesting we've had in years, and the new owners, unlike Evans, seem to really have a plan for how to achieve their aims.
The future is bright, alas the present is fooking dismal. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 9:26]
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He says himself that it’s not been good enough. He’s taken responsibility. Have the players taken any responsibility? They are meant to be professional footballers. Paid well to play. Instead the odd one ambles out after yet another limp display and gormlessly mumbles a few cliches, then presumably it’s off to the boozer for a laugh. Ok I’m painting a picture here, but Cook inherited a bunch of people who aren’t even fit. They can’t do more than half a game of football. 10 men gave them the runaround. There’s your evidence.
Yes Cook is accountable but not for their fitness or attitude or lack of ability. Do remember how they collapsed at Gillingham four days after his arrival. That was hardly down to Cook. I thought the players were better than they are. Some are ok, like Downes, for this level. Most are not. I believe the ‘Cook inners’ are just saying give the bloke a chance to build a team. 12 games with somebody else’s mismatched players isn’t enough to bring out the pitchforks and burning torches.
Nobody is saying give him 3 years, which was about the time good clubs often gave new managers. But give the bloke a chance. If there is no sign of improvement at the start of the new season, I’ll be hurling criticism with everyone else. Until then it’s reserved for the most unprofessional collection of people to ever represent the football club - by a country mile. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 09:51 - Apr 24 with 2132 views | hype313 |
| What's quite sad on 08:43 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
I've just edited to post to clarify "what I've heard" is what I've heard from Cook on the official channels - no inside info/gossip or anything along those lines
Whilst you find it incomprehensible that expectation is/was for Cook to transform things (I thought he'd improve us personally and have us right up there for POs but falling short either in getting there or in them).....I find it incomprehensible that people are accepting of how bad we have become since the change, where every week seems to be a newer low, and that all the blame has transferred from Lambert onto the players in it's entirity.
As GB mentioned above, if in Cook's 12 games we'd have won 4, drawn 4 and lost 4 - against the weakest sides in the division, we'd be in the top 6.......when he was appointed did anyone expect him to get less than 16 points in 12 games? I certainly didn't.
He'll rightly get the summer, and I'm excited to see what he and we do - but the confidence levels have definitely dropped. |
Apologies, I read that as from what you've heard and I took that as in from the players, rather than from Cook. My bad. | |
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| What's quite sad on 09:53 - Apr 24 with 2132 views | Steve_M |
| What's quite sad on 08:07 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
These posts are pointless, they are designed to get up arrows for me.
Why does everything have to be put into two such distinct camps? For me Cook has been useless with what he has done on the pitch, he’s taken us backwards and I’m amazed at that as I had high hopes he’d get us going in the right directions.
Some are happy to lay blame totally at feet if players, personally I’m not and I think he should be getting more out of them than Lambert managed (who we all agree was underperforming)
I don’t like the chucking of players under the bus constantly, I don’t like the way so many fans are feeling emboldened to turn so aggressively and at times viciously against the players.
Do I think Cook has done a good job? Not in any way so far
Would I sack Cook now? Absolutely not
Would I be disappointed if new owners want to go in a different direction? In a way as want to see him get his own squad in as had so much success, but not particularly on what I’ve seen on the pitch, or heard from Cook.
I think the Burley comparison doesn’t stack up - GB came in to literally the worst team in the league with zero expectation of survival, and whilst too young for Robson he did an excellent job straight away [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 8:28]
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I agree. There are plenty of mitigating factors and it usually takes time to turn a team as poor as we are around. McCarthy was very much the exception, even Royle took a while with a much better squad, but Cook had been a disappointment so far.
He’ll rightly have next season but he’s failed at the initial task of getting to the playoffs. Had we missed out on the last day by a couple of points then I think that’s a different scenario to what we see now. I didn’t expect us to go up but to be much more competitive than we have been.
There are similarities with Lambert in 2018-19 so far, he actually made a greater initial impression, which is why I don’t blame PL for relegation but do think he should have got more out of that team. Lambert obviously failed to build anything sustainable after that but had he done so we would mostly have been happy with him overall. The same goes for Cook: do well next season and we’ll forget three weeks but he’s put more pressure on himself. [Post edited 24 Apr 2021 9:56]
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| What's quite sad on 09:56 - Apr 24 with 2110 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What's quite sad on 09:31 - Apr 24 by PhilTWTD |
This does seem to happen with every manager here, to be fair, so someone in a year's time can claim to have been right about them from the start. It's tedious points scoring, as you say. |
There are fewer things certain in life than a football manager failing in this day and age. It's a strange thing to try to be right over. I might start predicting that day will follow night and then follow it up with hundreds of 'I told you so' posts. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 09:58 - Apr 24 with 2115 views | PhilTWTD |
| What's quite sad on 09:41 - Apr 24 by pointofblue |
I think that’s unfair, Phil. Yes, there is a handful of people who seem to think Cook should go which, you’re right, is tedious at this point, and my apologies of you’re solely aiming your post at them.
But the majority who are critical at Cook, including myself, seem to think he should be getting more out of the players, constantly switching who to blame and laying into the players is becoming pointless and tiresome plus are saddened and frustrated that even mediocre form against the league’s bottom sides would have got us into the Play Offs and we’ve failed to do so. HOWEVER he deserves the summer and a chance to rebuild what he has his here, especially with his recent pedigree. |
Sorry, wasn't disputing there are those with genuine criticisms or concerns, more that there is this tendency to stick a flag in the ground saying this manager or that manager was the wrong choice/is going to be hopeless from the off in some cases, purely to win points as and when the management goes through a rough spell (as pretty much all of them do). | | | |
| What's quite sad on 09:59 - Apr 24 with 2101 views | Barneycurley |
| What's quite sad on 09:23 - Apr 24 by Ewan_Oozami |
What will prevent him having success with us once he has got a team of his choosing on the pitch, especially when he's done so with other clubs? |
Yeah we've had the same said about Hurst too. If any one appointment where the expectation was so high and the delivery thus far has been so low then I'd like to know which?
Hes 1/10 so far. Managing to tie his shoe laces the 1 major accomplishment.
I reiterate I want him to bring success I just don't believe he should be given a free pass - he's literally taken the team backwards - quite something. |  |
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| What's quite sad on 10:03 - Apr 24 with 2099 views | pointofblue |
| What's quite sad on 09:58 - Apr 24 by PhilTWTD |
Sorry, wasn't disputing there are those with genuine criticisms or concerns, more that there is this tendency to stick a flag in the ground saying this manager or that manager was the wrong choice/is going to be hopeless from the off in some cases, purely to win points as and when the management goes through a rough spell (as pretty much all of them do). |
Sorry, misunderstood! I think I may have said that about Jewell and Lambert though.  Sadly got duped by the latter for a spell when he seemed to be getting more out of the squad than Hurst managed. | |
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| What's quite sad on 10:13 - Apr 24 with 2086 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| What's quite sad on 09:31 - Apr 24 by PhilTWTD |
This does seem to happen with every manager here, to be fair, so someone in a year's time can claim to have been right about them from the start. It's tedious points scoring, as you say. |
Basically the same idea as the OP. | |
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| What's quite sad on 10:17 - Apr 24 with 2078 views | patrickswell |
This is where I do my regular post where I say that comparing most managers start to Robson is flawed given that Bobby’s first four Town matches were against next season’s league champions (Everton), the previous season’s European Cup Winners (Manchester Utd), the Present season’s league champions (Leeds) and the Double winners of two years hence (Arsenal) . To take 2 wins and a draw from that is no small achievement considering the present squad couldn’t match that run of results against Gillingham, Lincoln, Plymouth and Fleetwood.
Of course Bobby had a team to pick from which pizzes all over today’s squad in pretty much every respect, helped by the fact that itnad been on the rise over the previous 2 seasons as against this one which has been in constant decline since August 2018. Demolish away, Paul. Virtually no-one’s shown that they deserve to be kept. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 10:25 - Apr 24 with 2067 views | davblue |
| What's quite sad on 08:52 - Apr 24 by itfcjoe |
I’d have personally preferred Cowley, but was 100% behind in thinking it was an excellent appointment.
Totally behind him for the summer and excited to see the overdue overhaul.....but am I now 100% confident in him having success here......quite frankly no. |
I don’t think this is a 1 year job to get us out of this league.
If we are making so many changes say 10 in as speculated 8 or 9 of them are going to have to be be hits for us to get automatic promotion, I personally don’t see that happening. Our best chance next year is the play offs and the lottery that entails.
The recruitment team aren’t going to be fully in place either and ready to go for the summer, so I suspect we will go with Cook’s list this summer.
It has been bad so far under Cook, and so far there’s nothing to hang your hat on. Will be an interesting summer and season next year. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 10:29 - Apr 24 with 2050 views | pointofblue |
| What's quite sad on 10:25 - Apr 24 by davblue |
I don’t think this is a 1 year job to get us out of this league.
If we are making so many changes say 10 in as speculated 8 or 9 of them are going to have to be be hits for us to get automatic promotion, I personally don’t see that happening. Our best chance next year is the play offs and the lottery that entails.
The recruitment team aren’t going to be fully in place either and ready to go for the summer, so I suspect we will go with Cook’s list this summer.
It has been bad so far under Cook, and so far there’s nothing to hang your hat on. Will be an interesting summer and season next year. |
Similar to Portsmouth in League Two. They finished 16th the season before he took over; he oversaw an overhaul and got them up to sixth but they lost in the play offs before winning the division the following year.
I’m not sure if I can take two more seasons at this level! | |
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| What's quite sad on 10:38 - Apr 24 with 2041 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| What's quite sad on 09:59 - Apr 24 by Barneycurley |
Yeah we've had the same said about Hurst too. If any one appointment where the expectation was so high and the delivery thus far has been so low then I'd like to know which?
Hes 1/10 so far. Managing to tie his shoe laces the 1 major accomplishment.
I reiterate I want him to bring success I just don't believe he should be given a free pass - he's literally taken the team backwards - quite something. |
The differences are:
- Cook will get more money to buy better players than Hurst
- the players going are not the calibre of those who left when Hurst started
- Cook has done similar transformations at other teams
You say he's taken this team backwards, he has, but this team won't be here next season..I will start assessing his performance properly when he's decided who he's keeping and what his first couple of transfers are.... | |
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| What's quite sad on 11:00 - Apr 24 with 2016 views | PJH |
| What's quite sad on 10:29 - Apr 24 by pointofblue |
Similar to Portsmouth in League Two. They finished 16th the season before he took over; he oversaw an overhaul and got them up to sixth but they lost in the play offs before winning the division the following year.
I’m not sure if I can take two more seasons at this level! |
I would be surprised if the owners can take two more seasons at this level.
If ITFC are still a third division club at the end of 2021/22 I would not expect Paul Cook to still be the manager.
This season has been a huge failure, last season was a huge failure and the relegation season was a huge failure but if we do not go up next season those three failures will be dwarfed by the 2021/22 failure. | | | |
| What's quite sad on 11:03 - Apr 24 with 2011 views | ketton_itfc |
Well said! Time to judge is when he’s has a couple windows. If we’re not in the top 6 then or are still asking the same questions of the team then rightly so he should get it in the neck.
But now not a chance, fully behind him, it’s not as if some of the things he’s been saying we’ve not seen with our own eyes or questionined at some point.
We’ve defende the players enough over the last 3 years, made excuses for them, nobody can question the fans backing for them. The players as a group only have themselves to blame for not at the very least put up a decent fight. That’s the very least we expected excusing injuries, COVID, poor coaching etc etc. |  | | |
| What's quite sad on 11:48 - Apr 24 with 1970 views | peterleeblue |
| What's quite sad on 08:00 - Apr 24 by hype313 |
I do, he's come in to a sh1tstorm, a completely broken club, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. |
That maybe true but the club was still 1pt outside the PO's with a favourable run in.
Given the investment coming in I just think it would have been good to try and hoodwink the players into performance and have a punt at spawning our way into the Championship and then rebuild from there.
Most are frustrated that we could not have even got into the mix and a fist of it given results this season against bottom half teams prior to Cooks arrival.
Having said all of that given we are still mathematically in with a chance even having been so poor, so if things don't go to plan for the first half of next season we should still be patient. There is plenty of wiggle room in this division. |  | | |
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