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Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 10:39 - Oct 1 by Keaneish
Why? Boxing has been a sport for thousands of years…
True - but actually taking part in it is a very minority thing compared to those who play football at some stage. You'd lose much more of that art if you couldn't hit the head than would be the case with football minus heading, or at least with limited heading.
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 09:01 - Oct 1 by bluelagos
Clashing of heads is independent of the ball weight, comes 99% of the time from challenging for headers, and will clearly potentially play a part in the dementia seen by so many ex pros.
It can do. But this really isn’t about impact per se – it’s about a change of momentum and sudden deceleration/acceleration on a brain that’s floating in a skull and where the blood supply can get compromised by a shearing effect.
In rugby there are more impacts to the head but this is still really about players running at each other and what that deceleration means when they hit each other. Time after time especially in training, so they’re now looking to reduce that to a maximum of 15 minutes per week. In American football that effect is even worse because despite helmets that protect against impact they often go directly head to head on purpose and the forces are greater as a result. But again it’s how often it happens that’s the problem.
That’s the issue with football – the sheer repetition of those sudden movements inside the skull when planting header after header. Not the occasional nasty head clash although that clearly doesn’t help either.
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Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 11:49 - Oct 1 with 1564 views
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 10:57 - Oct 1 by homer_123
That'll be the end of Boxing, MMA, Rugby, most of the martial arts etc. then?
There's vested interest in people keeping those sports running - as without the contact there is no sport. It's the same with NFL, where overwhelmingly the risk outweigh the benefits for the vast majority in the game.
Without heading football is still football, it will still be the most simple and popular game in the world - that's the beauty of it.
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 10:15 - Oct 1 by IpswichKnight
Allow for concussion protocol substitutions like in Rugby and I think that would be a very good start. Also in the pro league an independent Dr would make the decision as to whether a player can come back on and if they can’t then it’s a free substitution.
Yes, that's something we could do now with little effort or change to the game. It would be well worth doing while everyone else argues about the pros and cons of heading.
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 11:51 - Oct 1 by Swansea_Blue
Yes, that's something we could do now with little effort or change to the game. It would be well worth doing while everyone else argues about the pros and cons of heading.
In football, those big concussion moments rarely happen. Not like boxing, American football or rugby where there’s a Head Injury Assessment almost every game, certainly every two games.
Anyway, even in those sports, it’s the much smaller repeated damage over a longer period that’s the real underlying issue.
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Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 12:28 - Oct 1 with 1486 views
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 09:24 - Oct 1 by NthQldITFC
Why not though? Sartorial inelegance or affront to the manhood? Both irrelevant surely?
Must have been a point at which it was suggested for Rugby players (for scrums), the seem to be ok wearing them.
That said there are also counter arguments to boxers wearing head gear. While they may possibly soften the force of the punch they wont stop the jarring motion, and make your head a bigger target to be hit.
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 10:08 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe
Anyone who doesn’t think this will ultimately happen just can’t read the room - it’s nailed on and in the future people will not be able to believe we used to head it
[Post edited 1 Oct 2021 10:35]
I would agree with you if it was just a domestic sport, and think it’s only a matter of time before heading is banned at younger levels in this country. But I don’t personally see any way this happens in the professional game for the foreseeable future. As far as I can tell it doesn’t seem to even be on FIFA’s radar
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 11:49 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe
There's vested interest in people keeping those sports running - as without the contact there is no sport. It's the same with NFL, where overwhelmingly the risk outweigh the benefits for the vast majority in the game.
Without heading football is still football, it will still be the most simple and popular game in the world - that's the beauty of it.
Without heading football is diminished as a spectacle.
Think of corners, attacking free kicks and crosses without the option of a headed goal.
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 12:28 - Oct 1 by Deano69
Must have been a point at which it was suggested for Rugby players (for scrums), the seem to be ok wearing them.
That said there are also counter arguments to boxers wearing head gear. While they may possibly soften the force of the punch they wont stop the jarring motion, and make your head a bigger target to be hit.
Yeah, scrum caps aren’t the answer at all. They stop blood injuries and cauliflower ears not the forces within the skull. And in the US they actually wear proper helmets that again do nothing to stop the forces on the brain within the skull.
It’s better to think of it like this: we don’t need measures to protect hits to the outside of the skull. We need measures and protocols to protect/limit the movement of the brain within the skull. Especially over time.
And you’re right about boxing head gear too. I remember there were concerns that bigger gloves and bigger headgear actually increase the lever effect (like knock outs on the chin) that spin the head and tear blood vessels connected to the brain as the floating brain moves too slowly.
[Post edited 1 Oct 2021 13:37]
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Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:43 - Oct 1 with 1384 views
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 09:58 - Oct 1 by Keaneish
The game as it exists brings joy to billions of people. The only purpose this would serve would be to prolong the lives of elderly men and women by a few years to ease the suffering on a minority of families who have invested their lives in the game they love which brings said joy.
Of course it’s sad but Wilson, the Charlton’s and Peter’s who are probably the most high-profile cases were elderly men from a different generation.
Personally, I’m in favour of raising awareness and advancing technology rather than changing the fundamentals.
I can't see that removing heading will reduce the joy that people feel by all that much. It would just be something new to get used to.
I also can't agree there is a simple balance to be done here between an ineffable amount of joy set against the direct suffering of however small a group of people. Especially when the majority of the people experiencing this joy are not the ones suffering the consequences.
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:05 - Oct 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure
I would agree with you if it was just a domestic sport, and think it’s only a matter of time before heading is banned at younger levels in this country. But I don’t personally see any way this happens in the professional game for the foreseeable future. As far as I can tell it doesn’t seem to even be on FIFA’s radar
I don't think it is imminent by any stretch, but feels inevitable
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 09:58 - Oct 1 by Keaneish
The game as it exists brings joy to billions of people. The only purpose this would serve would be to prolong the lives of elderly men and women by a few years to ease the suffering on a minority of families who have invested their lives in the game they love which brings said joy.
Of course it’s sad but Wilson, the Charlton’s and Peter’s who are probably the most high-profile cases were elderly men from a different generation.
Personally, I’m in favour of raising awareness and advancing technology rather than changing the fundamentals.
This is a really awful attitude, it basically boils down to - I don't give a toss about those suffering and their families because they brought joy to people and so what.
We of course don't know the long term effects of heading in the current game and won't for a number of years - but if all the scientific advice points to it still being a problem then something needs to be done about it
The last paragraph is just an attitude which is in other areas of life of basically - I don't want anything to change, but just pretend I care so lets skirt around the sides of the issue and not actually sort it
Dr Judith Gates created the charity organisation Head for Change and was responsible for arranging the game. Her husband Bill Gates, a former Middlesbrough defender, was diagnosed with dementia in 2014.
Now aged 77, he was forced to retire at 29 after regularly suffering migraines.
"My husband will enjoy today but he won't remember it tomorrow," Dr Gates told BBC Sport.
"He is increasingly frail and his short-term memory is virtually non-existent. What we are doing on his behalf is carrying out his wish. When he was first diagnosed he said, 'I want my legacy to be that no other player or family go through what we are going through.' So that's what today is about."
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:44 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe
I'm sure we'd all get used to it as it phased out
Indeed. Might even make more games overall better as teams would have to play to players’ feet or into space rather than playing the percentages and trying to pick up second balls.
And it would barely change anything about how the best teams in the world play. The only time heading becomes the favoured approach is from some corners and free kicks where they try to get bodies into the box and overwhelm the defenders and keeper.
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Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:58 - Oct 1 with 1323 views
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:54 - Oct 1 by Darth_Koont
Indeed. Might even make more games overall better as teams would have to play to players’ feet or into space rather than playing the percentages and trying to pick up second balls.
And it would barely change anything about how the best teams in the world play. The only time heading becomes the favoured approach is from some corners and free kicks where they try to get bodies into the box and overwhelm the defenders and keeper.
In the test game they played, it was said the only time it was really an issue was for corners, which makes sense really
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:58 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe
In the test game they played, it was said the only time it was really an issue was for corners, which makes sense really
That's the only real area where it could cause issues, however, I'm sure in time players will look at other ways to get the ball into the box without the need for flight, more short corners with more players nearby etc
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:49 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe
This is a really awful attitude, it basically boils down to - I don't give a toss about those suffering and their families because they brought joy to people and so what.
We of course don't know the long term effects of heading in the current game and won't for a number of years - but if all the scientific advice points to it still being a problem then something needs to be done about it
The last paragraph is just an attitude which is in other areas of life of basically - I don't want anything to change, but just pretend I care so lets skirt around the sides of the issue and not actually sort it
Indeed. Basically he's saying he likes heading being part of the game and if a few ex players die sooner than they would otherwise have done and have a pretty miserable end to their lives than so be it. Disgusting.
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 14:01 - Oct 1 by hype313
That's the only real area where it could cause issues, however, I'm sure in time players will look at other ways to get the ball into the box without the need for flight, more short corners with more players nearby etc
Short corners are more productive anyway, although often that’s changing the angle of the eventual cross.
And if you can’t flight the ball in anymore then bring the corner to the corner of the box and see players trying to find a yard of space instead for an actual pass. Or something ...
Taking away one aspect of the game, which is occasionally but rarely satisfying, means you can perhaps replace it with more of the better stuff anyway.
Anyway, ultimately it’s about long-term health so people will just have to lump it, excuse the pun.
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Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 14:38 - Oct 1 with 1253 views
Butcher is calling for heading to be phased out on 13:49 - Oct 1 by itfcjoe
This is a really awful attitude, it basically boils down to - I don't give a toss about those suffering and their families because they brought joy to people and so what.
We of course don't know the long term effects of heading in the current game and won't for a number of years - but if all the scientific advice points to it still being a problem then something needs to be done about it
The last paragraph is just an attitude which is in other areas of life of basically - I don't want anything to change, but just pretend I care so lets skirt around the sides of the issue and not actually sort it
That’s an horrendous interpretation of my post on several fronts.
The average life expectancy for a male adult in the UK is 80 years old. Jack Charlton died aged 85 after living a long and happy life with enormous success making a name for himself by heading the ball. His wife refused to condemn football as the reason for his ailment in later years.
In your new world, Jack Charlton may not have become the player he was. I said in my post we should generate awareness and look at technology to improve our knowledge - we should not change the rules. This isn’t a denial, it’s a different approach. If we remove heading from football, Burgess wouldn’t be in the starting line-up tomorrow.
Life is about experience, not about preservation and this may be the fundamental difference between views on here. Sport carries physical risks, careers are short and injury can be life changing and in my view, it should be played at the individuals risk.
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