| F1 showdown thread 11:38 - Dec 12 with 16777 views | bluelagos |
In case anyone is unaware, is live on C4 today, coverage starts at 12, race at 1pm.
Winner takes all. We are watching history, have no doubt this season will be made into a film in time, much as the great "Rush" and "Senna" were.
I'll be shouting for Max. Much as I love Hamilton and his amazing career, the talent of Verstappen is undeniable.
Time for the new pretender or for the old guard to get the all time record for F1 championships? |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:36 - Dec 12 with 967 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:35 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
So Mercedes not doing any interviews and are looking at a specific rule (posted in this thread) which seems to have been totally broken by the race director because Red Bull (by their own admission were yelling at him).
It basically says that all the lapped cars need to overtake the safety car and then the safety car goes into the pits the next lap. This seems broken twice as not all the lapped cars were allowed past and the safety car didn't wait one lap before the restart.
It's incredibly messy. Masi could have prevented this by following the rules and not listening to either team screaming in his ear.
Seems now most commentators have looked at the exact rule that this was totally against the rules. We will see what happens but what a ridiculous mess.
SB [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:38]
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I have to wonder if next year one rule should be that no one has access to the race director or the stewards during the race. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:37 - Dec 12 with 950 views | pointofblue |
Reported Mercedes lodging two protests against the result of the race. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:37 - Dec 12 with 945 views | blueconscience |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:37 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
Reported Mercedes lodging two protests against the result of the race. |
So they should!! |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:39 - Dec 12 with 919 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:34 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
No, a Williams. |
Shame. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:40 - Dec 12 with 914 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:37 - Dec 12 by blueconscience |
So they should!! |
They're lodging it against Max though? Not sure what Max did wrong during the race? | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:40 - Dec 12 with 911 views | JDB23 |
Like I said last race, F1 is a joke, just an advertisement for the Netflix series. | | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:42 - Dec 12 with 904 views | Kievthegreat |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:36 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
I have to wonder if next year one rule should be that no one has access to the race director or the stewards during the race. |
They need access to discuss things, but rules should be put in place against lobbying. It may have been going on for much longer, but the recent radio messages cast aspersions on the decision making capabilities of the Race director and stewards.
Perhaps a "speak when you're spoken to" type system. |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:46 - Dec 12 with 869 views | mikeybloo88 |
To a layman like me who doesn't follow F1 much and doesn't know the various rules, there seemed to be some rum decisions there. The Lap 1 thing seemed wrong, as did the basic scenario of a guy being well ahead having that lead wiped out by a safety car. Hamilton seemed to make a mistake to let Verstappen through on that last lap, could he not have blocked him at that corner and then held him off or were the tyres that much of an issue? |  | | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:46 - Dec 12 with 868 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:40 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
They're lodging it against Max though? Not sure what Max did wrong during the race? |
Not against Max, he didn't do anything as you say (he didn't have a chance given he was 13 seconds behind).
The Mercedes point is the race should have ended behind the safety car but the rules so that should have been the final standing.
Looks like they are right on both appeals as well but I'm sure nothing happens and even if it does is still an unsatisfactory end.
SB |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:47 - Dec 12 with 851 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:46 - Dec 12 by mikeybloo88 |
To a layman like me who doesn't follow F1 much and doesn't know the various rules, there seemed to be some rum decisions there. The Lap 1 thing seemed wrong, as did the basic scenario of a guy being well ahead having that lead wiped out by a safety car. Hamilton seemed to make a mistake to let Verstappen through on that last lap, could he not have blocked him at that corner and then held him off or were the tyres that much of an issue? |
He had no chance.
Brand new fasted tyres Vs 45 lap old slowest tyres.
He had very little grip compared to Max.
SB | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:49 - Dec 12 with 825 views | Skip_Intro |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:46 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
Not against Max, he didn't do anything as you say (he didn't have a chance given he was 13 seconds behind).
The Mercedes point is the race should have ended behind the safety car but the rules so that should have been the final standing.
Looks like they are right on both appeals as well but I'm sure nothing happens and even if it does is still an unsatisfactory end.
SB |
I think Mercedes are claiming that Max overtook under the safety car, as well as their other appeal...could be wrong though...
Edit: (from BBC Sport) "Two protests from Mercedes - one for overtaking under the safety car; and one on the stuff I was just talking about on safety-car procedure, which is actually article 48.12 (I was reading 2020 regs just now; words are same numbers are not)" [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:50]
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:50 - Dec 12 with 812 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:46 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
Not against Max, he didn't do anything as you say (he didn't have a chance given he was 13 seconds behind).
The Mercedes point is the race should have ended behind the safety car but the rules so that should have been the final standing.
Looks like they are right on both appeals as well but I'm sure nothing happens and even if it does is still an unsatisfactory end.
SB |
One of the appeals MIGHT be against Verstappen - he might have been ahead of Hamilton before the safety car line.
I think Mercedes' second appeal is on the backmarker regulations. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:53 - Dec 12 with 775 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:49 - Dec 12 by Skip_Intro |
I think Mercedes are claiming that Max overtook under the safety car, as well as their other appeal...could be wrong though...
Edit: (from BBC Sport) "Two protests from Mercedes - one for overtaking under the safety car; and one on the stuff I was just talking about on safety-car procedure, which is actually article 48.12 (I was reading 2020 regs just now; words are same numbers are not)" [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:50]
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They are clearly right as well with regards to both the protests. Not all the cars were allowed past and there wasn't 1 whole lap after the cars passed before the safety car went into the pits and overtaking is allowed.
But nothing will happen.
Max has been good this season, too aggressive for me but good. Hamilton has been robbed at the end here though.
SB | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:53 - Dec 12 with 771 views | Skip_Intro |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:50 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
One of the appeals MIGHT be against Verstappen - he might have been ahead of Hamilton before the safety car line.
I think Mercedes' second appeal is on the backmarker regulations. |
My understanding is that if Max did overtake under the safety car the penalty options are that the position is given back, or if this isn't possible a 5 second penalty which can be administered post race... | | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:54 - Dec 12 with 765 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:53 - Dec 12 by Skip_Intro |
My understanding is that if Max did overtake under the safety car the penalty options are that the position is given back, or if this isn't possible a 5 second penalty which can be administered post race... |
Gap between Max and Lewis... 2.2 seconds. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:54 - Dec 12 with 757 views | Kropotkin123 |
Just woke up to this. Seems crazy. This and that free win with no overtaking allowed have made this season an absolute farce.
I would not be as humble as LH was in his speech. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:55]
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:54 - Dec 12 with 752 views | blueconscience |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:54 - Dec 12 by Kropotkin123 |
Just woke up to this. Seems crazy. This and that free win with no overtaking allowed have made this season an absolute farce.
I would not be as humble as LH was in his speech. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:55]
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I think Hamilton is confident the title will be his, after the rule breaking has been dealt with. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:55]
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:56 - Dec 12 with 724 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:53 - Dec 12 by Skip_Intro |
My understanding is that if Max did overtake under the safety car the penalty options are that the position is given back, or if this isn't possible a 5 second penalty which can be administered post race... |
The overtaking protest is nonsense, Max pulled alongside a couple of times as Lewis was backing everything up but even if he did creep slightly ahead it was given back immediately. Technically it shouldn’t happen but it’s a ridiculous protest from Mercedes
Obviously the other one re the rules not being applied is far more warranted, and they are right to challenge it. But I do agree with Stokie above that anything now changing the result will be even more unsatisfactory [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:57]
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:57 - Dec 12 with 713 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:54 - Dec 12 by blueconscience |
I think Hamilton is confident the title will be his, after the rule breaking has been dealt with. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:55]
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Not a chance | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:58 - Dec 12 with 700 views | blueconscience |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:56 - Dec 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
The overtaking protest is nonsense, Max pulled alongside a couple of times as Lewis was backing everything up but even if he did creep slightly ahead it was given back immediately. Technically it shouldn’t happen but it’s a ridiculous protest from Mercedes
Obviously the other one re the rules not being applied is far more warranted, and they are right to challenge it. But I do agree with Stokie above that anything now changing the result will be even more unsatisfactory [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:57]
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Least if the WDC stands, teams know they can break the rules from now on, using this as a precedent. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:59 - Dec 12 with 689 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:56 - Dec 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
The overtaking protest is nonsense, Max pulled alongside a couple of times as Lewis was backing everything up but even if he did creep slightly ahead it was given back immediately. Technically it shouldn’t happen but it’s a ridiculous protest from Mercedes
Obviously the other one re the rules not being applied is far more warranted, and they are right to challenge it. But I do agree with Stokie above that anything now changing the result will be even more unsatisfactory [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:57]
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The other issue is the majority of people will have switched off straight after the race and won't really follow Formula One properly until March. It will be difficult for them to see Max win on the track then Lewis given the Championship a few hours later. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:59 - Dec 12 with 686 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:56 - Dec 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
The overtaking protest is nonsense, Max pulled alongside a couple of times as Lewis was backing everything up but even if he did creep slightly ahead it was given back immediately. Technically it shouldn’t happen but it’s a ridiculous protest from Mercedes
Obviously the other one re the rules not being applied is far more warranted, and they are right to challenge it. But I do agree with Stokie above that anything now changing the result will be even more unsatisfactory [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:57]
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Let's not forget Max won the race behind the safety car in the wet in Hungary (I believe) which involved no racing and gave him the lead into this race.
Red Bull weren't complaining about safety car rules then, today they were screaming at Masi on the radio to ignore the rules (by Horner's own admission in the interview).
That isn't the protest from Mercedes. They are:
- all cars need to be lapped and then the safety car needs to come in one lap later (neither happened).
- no overtaking until the safety car is in the pits by anyone (didn't happen).
The result should be declared the one behind the safety car given the rules but that would be awful as well.
SB [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 16:00]
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| F1 showdown thread on 16:00 - Dec 12 with 675 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:58 - Dec 12 by blueconscience |
Least if the WDC stands, teams know they can break the rules from now on, using this as a precedent. |
Break what rules?
You can’t seriously think Verstappen gained an advantage from ‘overtaking’ Hamilton by a millimetre under the safety car and then immediately dropping back? | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 16:00 - Dec 12 with 664 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 16:00 - Dec 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Break what rules?
You can’t seriously think Verstappen gained an advantage from ‘overtaking’ Hamilton by a millimetre under the safety car and then immediately dropping back? |
I don't believe that is the protest (see above).
SB | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 16:01 - Dec 12 with 658 views | blueconscience |
| F1 showdown thread on 16:00 - Dec 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Break what rules?
You can’t seriously think Verstappen gained an advantage from ‘overtaking’ Hamilton by a millimetre under the safety car and then immediately dropping back? |
See my earlier post, pasted it below for you;
48.12 of the sporting regs:
Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
[Post edited 12 Dec 2021 16:05]
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