| F1 showdown thread 11:38 - Dec 12 with 16789 views | bluelagos |
In case anyone is unaware, is live on C4 today, coverage starts at 12, race at 1pm.
Winner takes all. We are watching history, have no doubt this season will be made into a film in time, much as the great "Rush" and "Senna" were.
I'll be shouting for Max. Much as I love Hamilton and his amazing career, the talent of Verstappen is undeniable.
Time for the new pretender or for the old guard to get the all time record for F1 championships? |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 14:56 - Dec 12 with 933 views | chrismakin |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:50 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
Think when you have seven titles behind you you can afford to be calmer when it must feel like everything was against him at the end. Would have been interesting to have seen Verstappen's reaction if the race had finished behind the safety car. |
Absolutely disgusting by Michael Massey.
Completely went against the last 5 years of safety car protocol. If you let lapped cars pass. It's all of them and then the.safety car goes in 1 lap after.
Absolutely farse with only 1 reason to do what they did.
The amount of redbull and horner TV time for starters shows there's a higher person involved in this.
No 1 would moaned had that race ended behind the safety car.. we've seen races finish behind it.
Shocking for Michael to say. We wanted a race. You've had 55 laps of one which Lewis was leading by 11 seconds.
Horrid for Lewis to be screwed in such a way. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 14:57 - Dec 12 with 926 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:54 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
He would have complained about the start.
ETA - and the ins and outs of what happened last week. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 14:54]
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Everything that happened last week was correct. He got 3 deserved penalties.
They looked at lap 1 and said it was fine.
He had no complaints, this is farcical. Why weren't all the lapped cars allowed past? Just the ones between Max and Hamilton. That never happens either.
SB |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 14:58 - Dec 12 with 904 views | strikalite |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:52 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
He couldn't have complained, he was 13 seconds behind before that safety car.
SB |
This is the bit that gets me, I'm no expert but you claw your way to 13 seconds ahead and for no fault of your own a crash from one of the also rans means that advantage is lost, how on earth is that fair racing?? Farcical.... |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:59 - Dec 12 with 891 views | RadioOrwell |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:50 - Dec 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
The rules seem completely broken as far as tyre changes under safety cars go. Hamilton was 11 seconds ahead and cruising - obviously losing the gap is unavoidable and the nature of the sport however he was also actively disadvantaged by being ahead with the tyre change, as Mercedes were damned if they did and damned if they didn’t bring him in
I’m not sure what the answer is tbh, perhaps banning pit stops behind the safety car but then there is probably a safety risk with punctures etc. Maybe allowing all cars to stop and being guaranteed to resume in the same order after the safety car or something, although feels a bit clunky
The free change under a red flag is also a complete nonsense |
getting rid of the 4 or 5 back markers between LH and MV in order to have a 1 lap shoot out.
MV was 10 seconds behind before the 2nd idiot crashed.
awful. |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:59 - Dec 12 with 889 views | Vic |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:52 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
He couldn't have complained, he was 13 seconds behind before that safety car.
SB |
Whether or not rules were bent and changed by FIA is a bit mute as Lewis was snookered by the fact that he couldn’t pit. Damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. He was literally in a no win situation. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 14:59 - Dec 12 with 876 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:45 - Dec 12 by Skip_Intro |
That was an utter utter disgrace. I'm genuinely not a Hamilton fan but he was completely robbed there... |
It comes to something when the stewards have decided to liven the race up by gerrymandering to get the result. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 with 838 views | blueconscience |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:59 - Dec 12 by Vic |
Whether or not rules were bent and changed by FIA is a bit mute as Lewis was snookered by the fact that he couldn’t pit. Damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. He was literally in a no win situation. |
Will never see Max as a true champion, that was a disgrace. Don’t think I can look at F1 as a serious championship ever again. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 with 835 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:59 - Dec 12 by Vic |
Whether or not rules were bent and changed by FIA is a bit mute as Lewis was snookered by the fact that he couldn’t pit. Damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. He was literally in a no win situation. |
If they had let all the passed cars through it would have ended under the safety car. Hamilton wins.
If they had let no cars through (as they originally said) then Hamilton wins as Max doesn't get past 5 cars in one lap.
This is the only scenario where Max wins and it's never happened before. It's ridiculous.
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 with 831 views | belgablue |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:57 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
Everything that happened last week was correct. He got 3 deserved penalties.
They looked at lap 1 and said it was fine.
He had no complaints, this is farcical. Why weren't all the lapped cars allowed past? Just the ones between Max and Hamilton. That never happens either.
SB |
The more I digest it the more unbelievable it is. You can’t clear lapped cars in a third of a lap. They knew what they were doing. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 with 826 views | Ryorry |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:50 - Dec 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
The rules seem completely broken as far as tyre changes under safety cars go. Hamilton was 11 seconds ahead and cruising - obviously losing the gap is unavoidable and the nature of the sport however he was also actively disadvantaged by being ahead with the tyre change, as Mercedes were damned if they did and damned if they didn’t bring him in
I’m not sure what the answer is tbh, perhaps banning pit stops behind the safety car but then there is probably a safety risk with punctures etc. Maybe allowing all cars to stop and being guaranteed to resume in the same order after the safety car or something, although feels a bit clunky
The free change under a red flag is also a complete nonsense |
"Maybe allowing all cars to stop and being guaranteed to resume in the same order after the safety car or something".
That would seem the fairest way - "clunky" maybe, but when VAR is allowed in football ... |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:03 - Dec 12 with 813 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 by belgablue |
The more I digest it the more unbelievable it is. You can’t clear lapped cars in a third of a lap. They knew what they were doing. |
They didn't clear lapped cars.
They only cleared the 5 cars between Max and Lewis, not all of them.
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:03 - Dec 12 with 808 views | Stewart27 |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
If they had let all the passed cars through it would have ended under the safety car. Hamilton wins.
If they had let no cars through (as they originally said) then Hamilton wins as Max doesn't get past 5 cars in one lap.
This is the only scenario where Max wins and it's never happened before. It's ridiculous.
SB |
Yep.
I am not a massive F1 fan, but I’m absolutely seething about this. |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:05 - Dec 12 with 797 views | belgablue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:03 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
They didn't clear lapped cars.
They only cleared the 5 cars between Max and Lewis, not all of them.
SB |
Yes exactly - totally crazy, inept & corupt. Imagine it will be decided in the courts | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:05 - Dec 12 with 789 views | strikalite |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
"Maybe allowing all cars to stop and being guaranteed to resume in the same order after the safety car or something".
That would seem the fairest way - "clunky" maybe, but when VAR is allowed in football ... |
....and if you've gained 13 seconds as Lewis did, you get to keep the 13 seconds?
But of course that would be far too fair.. | | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:07 - Dec 12 with 773 views | tractorboy7777 |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:42 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
Yes and then wait until they all get back round. They announced they wouldn't be allowed, then let 5 cars overtake so they were next to each other then started the race with them there and Max behind.
It's totally against the rules and dodgy as fook. No way Mercedes will stand for it.
SB [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 14:43]
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They don’t wait for them to catch up, the let them passed half way round the track and by the time the safety comes in and the leader has backed the pack up, it’s likely they’re not far behind.
It is a bit dodgy they only let those between through but Toto Wolff called the racing director during the safety car asking them not to let them through a lap before as he knew it would mean there would be a lap racing.
Likewise, during the virtual safety car, he called and told them not to bring out the full safety car. It’s not up to him what to do!
They’re as bad as Red Bull.
Letting a lap of racing but no cars through would have been wrong but at the same time, what they’ve done is wrong. They probably had time to let them all through, based on where they let them through and there was only one lap! | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:09 - Dec 12 with 761 views | Strimmer |
F1 casual here.
I get the point they engineered that last lap race off. But did they actually engineer a win for Verstappen? Hear me out.
The engineered a situation where it’s now down to the pit strategy, relative pace of cars and driver skills. All questions of skill/decision making/luck/cars etc IE the things that make you good or bad at F1.
Unirthodox Gerrymandering but with the ultimate outcome of F1 ability deciding the race. Just for for the front 2. Or what am I missing? [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:09]
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:09 - Dec 12 with 752 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:07 - Dec 12 by tractorboy7777 |
They don’t wait for them to catch up, the let them passed half way round the track and by the time the safety comes in and the leader has backed the pack up, it’s likely they’re not far behind.
It is a bit dodgy they only let those between through but Toto Wolff called the racing director during the safety car asking them not to let them through a lap before as he knew it would mean there would be a lap racing.
Likewise, during the virtual safety car, he called and told them not to bring out the full safety car. It’s not up to him what to do!
They’re as bad as Red Bull.
Letting a lap of racing but no cars through would have been wrong but at the same time, what they’ve done is wrong. They probably had time to let them all through, based on where they let them through and there was only one lap! |
It's clearly wrong, it has never happened that only some cars have been allowed through.
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:09 - Dec 12 with 751 views | blueconscience |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:09 - Dec 12 by Strimmer |
F1 casual here.
I get the point they engineered that last lap race off. But did they actually engineer a win for Verstappen? Hear me out.
The engineered a situation where it’s now down to the pit strategy, relative pace of cars and driver skills. All questions of skill/decision making/luck/cars etc IE the things that make you good or bad at F1.
Unirthodox Gerrymandering but with the ultimate outcome of F1 ability deciding the race. Just for for the front 2. Or what am I missing? [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:09]
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48.12 of the sporting regs:
Unless the clerk of the course considers the
presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
So it should have been a safety car finish. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:10]
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:10 - Dec 12 with 739 views | SamWhiteUK |
Now I'm going to preface this by saying I very, VERY rarely watch F1, and I've only seen the second half of this race.
Whenever I have watched, and the safety car comes out, I never understand why the laps continue to tick down? Seems daft to me. I don't know what the solution is, but any time advantage gained by quality driving is just completely undone. Today's race might as well have been a single lap. Seems daft to me, what a waste of time and what a ridiculous way to end a championship. Seems it was done purely to create headlines and drama. |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:10 - Dec 12 with 739 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:09 - Dec 12 by Strimmer |
F1 casual here.
I get the point they engineered that last lap race off. But did they actually engineer a win for Verstappen? Hear me out.
The engineered a situation where it’s now down to the pit strategy, relative pace of cars and driver skills. All questions of skill/decision making/luck/cars etc IE the things that make you good or bad at F1.
Unirthodox Gerrymandering but with the ultimate outcome of F1 ability deciding the race. Just for for the front 2. Or what am I missing? [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:09]
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"Unirthodox Gerrymandering but with the ultimate outcome of F1 ability deciding the race. Just for for the front 2. Or what am I missing?"
What ability?
Anyone should be able to overtake 45 lap old hard tyres using brand new soft tyres almost regardless of the cars. There was no skill involved there.
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:11 - Dec 12 with 729 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:09 - Dec 12 by blueconscience |
48.12 of the sporting regs:
Unless the clerk of the course considers the
presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
So it should have been a safety car finish. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:10]
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Totto Wolf made this point but was told to shut up basically my Masi.
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:12 - Dec 12 with 718 views | Ryorry |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:02 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
If they had let all the passed cars through it would have ended under the safety car. Hamilton wins.
If they had let no cars through (as they originally said) then Hamilton wins as Max doesn't get past 5 cars in one lap.
This is the only scenario where Max wins and it's never happened before. It's ridiculous.
SB |
From what I've read here, "ridiculous" with bells on.
Has any other sport ever made a change to the rules in mid-event to engineer an on-the-spur-of-the-moment head to head between the two leaders in the finale of the near year-long sequence of races?! 🤔 | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:12 - Dec 12 with 718 views | blueconscience |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:11 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
Totto Wolf made this point but was told to shut up basically my Masi.
SB |
Merc will appeal this, they can’t just make up rules on the spot. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:13 - Dec 12 with 703 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:12 - Dec 12 by blueconscience |
Merc will appeal this, they can’t just make up rules on the spot. |
I kind of hope they don't, that's not how it should finish either.
It's just a total mess.
SB | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:13 - Dec 12 with 703 views | belgablue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:11 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
Totto Wolf made this point but was told to shut up basically my Masi.
SB |
Race director knows they messed up. I still can’t believe they got it so wrong | |
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