| F1 showdown thread 11:38 - Dec 12 with 16793 views | bluelagos |
In case anyone is unaware, is live on C4 today, coverage starts at 12, race at 1pm.
Winner takes all. We are watching history, have no doubt this season will be made into a film in time, much as the great "Rush" and "Senna" were.
I'll be shouting for Max. Much as I love Hamilton and his amazing career, the talent of Verstappen is undeniable.
Time for the new pretender or for the old guard to get the all time record for F1 championships? |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:14 - Dec 12 with 821 views | chrismakin |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:10 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
"Unirthodox Gerrymandering but with the ultimate outcome of F1 ability deciding the race. Just for for the front 2. Or what am I missing?"
What ability?
Anyone should be able to overtake 45 lap old hard tyres using brand new soft tyres almost regardless of the cars. There was no skill involved there.
SB |
This is the thing. Had they told merc they were gonna do what they were gonna do. They could have pitted Lewis onto sofas. Yes they would be 2nd. But at least he would then have been on the same fresher type. Not 40 odd lap old hards.
There is nothing else in this other than fia wanting a max win. There was no other outcome that was going to follow. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:14 - Dec 12 with 823 views | strikalite |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:12 - Dec 12 by blueconscience |
Merc will appeal this, they can’t just make up rules on the spot. |
Clive Thomas was involved in this one, that's how bad it was.... |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:14 - Dec 12 with 820 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:13 - Dec 12 by belgablue |
Race director knows they messed up. I still can’t believe they got it so wrong |
Horner has just said they were all over the radio screaming at the race director.
What a mess.
SB |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:16 - Dec 12 with 798 views | ZXBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:09 - Dec 12 by Strimmer |
F1 casual here.
I get the point they engineered that last lap race off. But did they actually engineer a win for Verstappen? Hear me out.
The engineered a situation where it’s now down to the pit strategy, relative pace of cars and driver skills. All questions of skill/decision making/luck/cars etc IE the things that make you good or bad at F1.
Unirthodox Gerrymandering but with the ultimate outcome of F1 ability deciding the race. Just for for the front 2. Or what am I missing? [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:09]
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I think thats nonsense. Strategy didnt win it, because strategy cant account for such a patently contrived and gerrymandered situation. |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:17 - Dec 12 with 786 views | pointofblue |
Button, Rosberg and (apparently) Hill all thought Hamilton should have been told to give the place back after the lap one incident. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:17 - Dec 12 with 780 views | Strimmer |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:10 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
"Unirthodox Gerrymandering but with the ultimate outcome of F1 ability deciding the race. Just for for the front 2. Or what am I missing?"
What ability?
Anyone should be able to overtake 45 lap old hard tyres using brand new soft tyres almost regardless of the cars. There was no skill involved there.
SB |
Yeah but that’s kinda what I’m saying. Tyre strategy has been part of winning F1 for ever, and red bulls was better than Mercedes’ there | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:18 - Dec 12 with 774 views | Ryorry |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:14 - Dec 12 by chrismakin |
This is the thing. Had they told merc they were gonna do what they were gonna do. They could have pitted Lewis onto sofas. Yes they would be 2nd. But at least he would then have been on the same fresher type. Not 40 odd lap old hards.
There is nothing else in this other than fia wanting a max win. There was no other outcome that was going to follow. |
If I were MV, I'd actually be feeling a bit sick knowing I hadn't won it fair and square. It would certainly take the shine off for any decent individual anyway. |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:19 - Dec 12 with 761 views | Strimmer |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:16 - Dec 12 by ZXBlue |
I think thats nonsense. Strategy didnt win it, because strategy cant account for such a patently contrived and gerrymandered situation. |
Ok I’m with ya now, yeah they wouldn’t have predicted that decision , fair | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:19 - Dec 12 with 761 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:17 - Dec 12 by Strimmer |
Yeah but that’s kinda what I’m saying. Tyre strategy has been part of winning F1 for ever, and red bulls was better than Mercedes’ there |
They didn't do a tyre strategy.
They were able to change because Lewis was first, the second place driver always gets that chance. There was no strategy involved at all.
SB | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:20 - Dec 12 with 738 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:19 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
They didn't do a tyre strategy.
They were able to change because Lewis was first, the second place driver always gets that chance. There was no strategy involved at all.
SB |
Today, absolutely agree. I think Mercedes strategy has cost Lewis in previous races though. Red Bull have been better on that score across the season. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:22 - Dec 12 with 722 views | Kievthegreat |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:17 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
Button, Rosberg and (apparently) Hill all thought Hamilton should have been told to give the place back after the lap one incident. |
Rosberg said during the race that Hamilton shouldnt have had to give the place back because Verstappen ran him off the road, but that he didn't give enough of the advantage for cutting the corner back. |  | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:23 - Dec 12 with 705 views | Strimmer |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:19 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue |
They didn't do a tyre strategy.
They were able to change because Lewis was first, the second place driver always gets that chance. There was no strategy involved at all.
SB |
Now understand from above posts that the unprecedented nature of the decision means no team would have allowed for it in what they do and conceded the point .
But I’ve *casually* watched F1 all my life and all that who’s first who’s second, can I pit should I pit etc etc has always been part of the natural shake out of luck skill and circumstance in an F1 race | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:25 - Dec 12 with 683 views | befxblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:10 - Dec 12 by SamWhiteUK |
Now I'm going to preface this by saying I very, VERY rarely watch F1, and I've only seen the second half of this race.
Whenever I have watched, and the safety car comes out, I never understand why the laps continue to tick down? Seems daft to me. I don't know what the solution is, but any time advantage gained by quality driving is just completely undone. Today's race might as well have been a single lap. Seems daft to me, what a waste of time and what a ridiculous way to end a championship. Seems it was done purely to create headlines and drama. |
Amongst other things, the fuel load is carefully calculated to last the race with minimum wastage at the end of the allotted amount of laps, so adding laps on for safety cars would see cars running out of fuel. | | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:26 - Dec 12 with 670 views | Kievthegreat |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:10 - Dec 12 by SamWhiteUK |
Now I'm going to preface this by saying I very, VERY rarely watch F1, and I've only seen the second half of this race.
Whenever I have watched, and the safety car comes out, I never understand why the laps continue to tick down? Seems daft to me. I don't know what the solution is, but any time advantage gained by quality driving is just completely undone. Today's race might as well have been a single lap. Seems daft to me, what a waste of time and what a ridiculous way to end a championship. Seems it was done purely to create headlines and drama. |
It difficult as you cant stop the laps ticking down as there is no refueling. Imagine races ending with cars pulling over having run out of petrol because there were too many safety cars.
It's a farcical end with rule not being followed or only partially applied to get a grandstand finish. | | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:27 - Dec 12 with 665 views | bluelagos |
So lap 53, Latifi crashes, safety car.
Lap 54, LH cant pit as MV takes lead and could be race end. So LH stays out, MV gambles by pitting.
Qn. Why didnt LH pit on lap 55? Would he have then been behind MV? | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:28 - Dec 12 with 654 views | NthQldITFC |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:25 - Dec 12 by befxblue |
Amongst other things, the fuel load is carefully calculated to last the race with minimum wastage at the end of the allotted amount of laps, so adding laps on for safety cars would see cars running out of fuel. |
Then the bu99ers should have to push the cars round the last few laps, like the rest of us would! |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:28 - Dec 12 with 654 views | ZXBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:27 - Dec 12 by bluelagos |
So lap 53, Latifi crashes, safety car.
Lap 54, LH cant pit as MV takes lead and could be race end. So LH stays out, MV gambles by pitting.
Qn. Why didnt LH pit on lap 55? Would he have then been behind MV? |
Yes, he would have been. They said as much on the radio. | | | |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:28 - Dec 12 with 654 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:27 - Dec 12 by bluelagos |
So lap 53, Latifi crashes, safety car.
Lap 54, LH cant pit as MV takes lead and could be race end. So LH stays out, MV gambles by pitting.
Qn. Why didnt LH pit on lap 55? Would he have then been behind MV? |
Yes, possibly behind the whole field at that point as he would have pitted a lap later. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:32 - Dec 12 with 621 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| F1 showdown thread on 14:49 - Dec 12 by Stewart27 |
It was an absolute disgrace and a travesty that this situation was manufactured.
Shame on the FIA.
Lewis didn’t put a foot wrong and Verstappen wasn’t even gaining on fresher tyres prior to the crash which gave the FIA the opportunity to manufacture a red bull win. |
Don't follow this stuff but did the crash involve Red Bulls sister team? (Alpha tauri is it?) |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:33 - Dec 12 with 615 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:27 - Dec 12 by bluelagos |
So lap 53, Latifi crashes, safety car.
Lap 54, LH cant pit as MV takes lead and could be race end. So LH stays out, MV gambles by pitting.
Qn. Why didnt LH pit on lap 55? Would he have then been behind MV? |
Yes, as the lap was behind the safety car (Lewis caught it on the back straight) so the field was basically right behind him. He’d have dropped behind pretty much everyone on the lead lap
Hence my post above re the rules being broken here - not only did he lose his 11 sec lead (which is unavoidable) but there wasn’t any way he could avoid being on a worse tyre than Verstappen suddenly without losing a place/places |  |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:34 - Dec 12 with 610 views | Ryorry |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:28 - Dec 12 by NthQldITFC |
Then the bu99ers should have to push the cars round the last few laps, like the rest of us would! |
Time has come for environmental considerations to dictate F1 (and other motorsport) - streamlined pedal-power should be the new norm 
Started this reply in jest, but actually thinking about it now, the new norm for the sport should be driving (sorry) towards carbon-neutral within 5 years. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:34 - Dec 12 with 608 views | pointofblue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:32 - Dec 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Don't follow this stuff but did the crash involve Red Bulls sister team? (Alpha tauri is it?) |
No, a Williams. | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:34 - Dec 12 with 603 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:32 - Dec 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Don't follow this stuff but did the crash involve Red Bulls sister team? (Alpha tauri is it?) |
Nope, it was Latifi (Williams) who crashed | |
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:35 - Dec 12 with 601 views | StokieBlue |
So Mercedes not doing any interviews and are looking at a specific rule (posted in this thread) which seems to have been totally broken by the race director because Red Bull (by their own admission were yelling at him).
It basically says that all the lapped cars need to overtake the safety car and then the safety car goes into the pits the next lap. This seems broken twice as not all the lapped cars were allowed past and the safety car didn't wait one lap before the restart.
It's incredibly messy. Masi could have prevented this by following the rules and not listening to either team screaming in his ear.
Seems now most commentators have looked at the exact rule that this was totally against the rules. We will see what happens but what a ridiculous mess.
SB [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 15:38]
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| F1 showdown thread on 15:35 - Dec 12 with 584 views | StokieBlue |
| F1 showdown thread on 15:27 - Dec 12 by bluelagos |
So lap 53, Latifi crashes, safety car.
Lap 54, LH cant pit as MV takes lead and could be race end. So LH stays out, MV gambles by pitting.
Qn. Why didnt LH pit on lap 55? Would he have then been behind MV? |
Yes.
And probably behind a lot of others as they had bunched up the field by then.
Might have been as far down as 15th I would guess.
SB | |
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