| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? 14:50 - May 17 with 9444 views | GavTWTD |
I feel that we're not looking at the housing crisis in the right way. Nimbyism is preventing housebuilding to the scale we need, so why don't we build a few large villages per rural county? I've not done the maths on this. It's just an idea, but get a (good) town planner in and develop some lower value farmland.
Get the town planner to insist on some architectural standards across the village, including green and insulation and styles, social housing etc. Get high speed broadband into every house. Stick a wind turbine up for local use, a pub/shop or more facilities, and inject money into local schools and health services. Create green spaces in the village, some stone bridges or whatever and don't make a concrete jungle, but something designed holistically from the ground up.
I don't know about land values, but perhaps the farmland could be bought reasonably cheaply, given that it only has one use currently. Then the land could be sold to developers at a commercial rates to fund local infrastructure improvements or social housing. Provision could be given to local farmers to sell land at a later date at commercial rates that skirt the village.
Anyway, this isn't in my manifesto, just something for discussion at the next conference. |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 16:27 - May 17 with 2058 views | DanTheMan |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 16:03 - May 17 by J2BLUE |
Go on then...what would they be? |
Probably not what Chico has in mind, but a land value tax would at least raise money and provide incentives not to hoard large properties.
https://www.labourland.org/downloads/papers/land_value_for_public_benefit.pdf
I've always found the idea really interesting. |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 17:10 - May 17 with 2003 views | OldFart71 |
House building has always been a contentious issue. I bought my first house under Maggie Thatchers right to buy. Whether that was right or wrong is open to debate, but I wouldn't have been on the housing ladder without it. The biggest problem with any developement is the fact that they are allowed to go ahead with little or no first looking at whether the area and community can sustain that developement as far as traffic on the roads, hospitals or Country Practices, schools and the environment. Builders should be made to provide an area that includes park areas, trees and if necessary extend of build NHS facilities and schools and be made responsible for the upkeep of the roads and pathways on their developement. |  | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 17:33 - May 17 with 1982 views | jaykay |
they have done this before e.g. cambourne so like you say lets build new villages |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 17:43 - May 17 with 1984 views | hoppy |
Poundbury in Dorset is an excellent example of what can be done with a masterplan, and is rather lovely...
https://poundbury.co.uk |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 18:02 - May 17 with 1952 views | StokieBlue |
LVT is a decent idea, although it's going to be quite expensive for many people (I think the rate quoted is usually about 2%). There should definitely be a large programme of social house building but no party seems to have the will to actually push it through. Nimbies can be totally ignored if required (see HS2 for instance).
The underlying issue is that the housing market contains many feedback loops. Any incentive to lower the prices will likely mean a lot of people either in negative equity (and thus never selling so not creating more available property) or defaulting.
So in most discussions you end up with two camps: The homeowners who don't want negative equity or to default and the non-homeowners who want the the prices driven down and those two sides are unlikely to agree.
We have a few on here who absolutely revel in the thought of a house price crash whilst totally ignoring the huge social impacts it would have on those caught in a desperate situation of negative equity or repossession. I suspect that the majority of those are in the non-homeowner camp because the subject is so polarising.
In summary: The housing market is a mess and it has implications for wider issues whatever happens.
SB |  | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 18:04 - May 17 with 1950 views | StokieBlue |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 17:43 - May 17 by hoppy |
Poundbury in Dorset is an excellent example of what can be done with a masterplan, and is rather lovely...
https://poundbury.co.uk |
That place does looked well planned but a quick look on Rightmove seems to indicate that something like that isn't the solution - most houses are going for 500,000+.
SB | | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 18:08 - May 17 with 1942 views | WeWereZombies |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 17:33 - May 17 by jaykay |
they have done this before e.g. cambourne so like you say lets build new villages |
Cambourne sounds nice but, having driven through it and stopped to shop there a few times, it does have a weird 'Stepford Wives' feel to it. |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 18:11 - May 17 with 1942 views | factual_blue |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 17:43 - May 17 by hoppy |
Poundbury in Dorset is an excellent example of what can be done with a masterplan, and is rather lovely...
https://poundbury.co.uk |
We went there a couple of years ago. It's a weird place. Seemed very dystopian to me. [Post edited 17 May 2023 20:36]
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 18:12 - May 17 with 1926 views | HARRY10 |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 17:43 - May 17 by hoppy |
Poundbury in Dorset is an excellent example of what can be done with a masterplan, and is rather lovely...
https://poundbury.co.uk |
But is little more than a vanity project that only serves to mask the real problem - a sort of Marie Antoinette fantasy farm
The main hold up is one of intent.
There are loads of sites that a being held back it what is termed a land bank. Time to repossess them. Despite the whinging in the Mail, offices are becoming redundant. Enough to be converted into living space, much as with the space above shops.
Disused RAF bases, especially in East Anglia, should be used to create new communities. Previously they were isolated, and so were not close to work, however that has changed dramatically. Data is being moved to people not the other way round. You can work in shared office space, purpose built, on site. The chap I spoke to this morning, Vodaphone, was working from home, and a 'collaborative writer' is now in the wilds of Jockland.
Just as in the States the vast network of roads that opened up the country and economy are now being reconsidered/removed.
Not only will it need a government to embrace this forward thinking, but it will need voters to put aside idiotic and harmful 'nimby' interests.
For too long this country has been run for the benefit of a minority. It needs to change, drastically. If not for social well being then for the economy. | | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 18:18 - May 17 with 1922 views | blueasfook |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 15:00 - May 17 by soupytwist |
What you have overlooked in your suggestion is how the executives of the large housing development companies will still be able to 'earn' their huge bonuses. |
And therein lies the problem I think, everything has to be milked for maximum profit these days. Hence, everything ends up costing a fortune because by the time it gets to market, everyone wants a cut so prices are sky high. |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:12 - May 17 with 1860 views | Swansea_Blue |
High speed broadband, more services? Steady on, you’ll be called a communist and an anti-semite supporter of you carry on like that!
I’d go for the city centre option. They’re dead in their traditional form. Let’s bring them back to life as residential hubs not just shopping hubs. We’d need a massive shift in the political and economic model to actual plan effectively on a large scale like this to break away from the developer driven approach (as said by others). I can’t see it happening. |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:21 - May 17 with 1849 views | chicoazul |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 16:03 - May 17 by J2BLUE |
Go on then...what would they be? |
No idea sorry. |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:23 - May 17 with 1847 views | HARRY10 |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 18:02 - May 17 by StokieBlue |
LVT is a decent idea, although it's going to be quite expensive for many people (I think the rate quoted is usually about 2%). There should definitely be a large programme of social house building but no party seems to have the will to actually push it through. Nimbies can be totally ignored if required (see HS2 for instance).
The underlying issue is that the housing market contains many feedback loops. Any incentive to lower the prices will likely mean a lot of people either in negative equity (and thus never selling so not creating more available property) or defaulting.
So in most discussions you end up with two camps: The homeowners who don't want negative equity or to default and the non-homeowners who want the the prices driven down and those two sides are unlikely to agree.
We have a few on here who absolutely revel in the thought of a house price crash whilst totally ignoring the huge social impacts it would have on those caught in a desperate situation of negative equity or repossession. I suspect that the majority of those are in the non-homeowner camp because the subject is so polarising.
In summary: The housing market is a mess and it has implications for wider issues whatever happens.
SB |
There is an obvious flaw in that.
Building social housing rarely affects the housing market. | | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:24 - May 17 with 1851 views | Ryorry |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 15:22 - May 17 by TalkingBlues |
No reason why it can't be done, look at all the Garden Cities that were built after the War. Developers are the problem, they hold everybody to ransom, IMO the Government should launch its own property development business and develop land it owns itself, imagine how much more affordable the places would be with nobody looking to turn a huge profit on the build and they wouldn't have to put up with the sh1te from private developers. |
Lol, what makes you think this corrupt current tory govt. would be any different from developers "hold(ing) everybody to ransom" and "looking to turn a huge profit on the build"?! |  |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:24 - May 17 with 1846 views | chicoazul |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 15:59 - May 17 by GavTWTD |
No, he wants me to work from my bedroom rather than my office. |
If you *need* an office fair enough.
But there are loads and loads of houses with empty bedrooms that should be occupied by families rather than couples or single people. There needs to be some sort of incentive to get those houses to the people that need them. | |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:31 - May 17 with 1840 views | Ryorry |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 16:25 - May 17 by BlueBoots |
"Yes, making use of empty houses should be a priority."
Not living in Suffolk, I don't really have a feel for the current housing market in the area.
Living in London, I can say that the empty houses issue here is a real problem; lots of properties bought as investments (or by people with second homes out of London who are choosing to live in those instead) sitting empty - there is talk of bringing in a "use it or lose it" policy, but doubt that will ever get pushed through.
Plenty of potential to not even have to build new housing on new land, but develop brownfield sites or repurpose office / commercial property that has become less desirable since the increase in working from home, but, as someone else mentioned, (even though it's necessary), any large increase in housing availability risks impacting a housing market which is already a bit wobbly due to the rise in interest rates. |
Sadly, not enough people are aware of this, my fav charity, who are the only housing charity I'm aware of which, to deal with the problem, actually builds and renovates new and old houses/buildings instead of just talking & campaigning forever for others to build/renovate them ...
https://www.habitatforhumanity.org.uk/what-we-do/ | |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:31 - May 17 with 1839 views | factual_blue |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 15:37 - May 17 by giant_stow |
I fhere's one industry/sector that needs nationalising over all others, I'd say its the corporate housebuilders. |
The corporate construction giants all but own the tory party. | |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:36 - May 17 with 1832 views | bluestandard |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 15:29 - May 17 by chicoazul |
The whole concept that there is a shortage of housing is deranged. Loads and loads of houses have one or more empty bedrooms. What needs to happen is, the correct incentives for people to leave houses that are far too big for them. Otherwise what’s the alternative? Build ever more and more houses?
Edit; https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-empty-homes-are-there-in-the-uk/ [Post edited 17 May 2023 15:34]
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I have no idea why your post has been downvoted. This is on the money. The Mayhew Review was published at the end of last year, and whilst some might take issue with the structure of the retirement living sector, the salient point is that the planning system is far too focussed on first time buyers, and not enough on last time buyers. We don't have the right mix of housing in this country. Thats ONE of the problems. | | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:36 - May 17 with 1831 views | GavTWTD |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:24 - May 17 by chicoazul |
If you *need* an office fair enough.
But there are loads and loads of houses with empty bedrooms that should be occupied by families rather than couples or single people. There needs to be some sort of incentive to get those houses to the people that need them. |
Of course I need an office. It gives me a quality of life that I think I deserve.
I wouldn't be opposed to some government funded house share where we take someone in but I don't know how it would work. We've done it for refugees, why not people from home? | |
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:41 - May 17 with 1825 views | Ryorry |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:36 - May 17 by bluestandard |
I have no idea why your post has been downvoted. This is on the money. The Mayhew Review was published at the end of last year, and whilst some might take issue with the structure of the retirement living sector, the salient point is that the planning system is far too focussed on first time buyers, and not enough on last time buyers. We don't have the right mix of housing in this country. Thats ONE of the problems. |
Downvoted because it disregards/excludes taking any account of individual personal circumstances, emotions, & physical & mental health.
Any financial incentive that might be taken up by some would likely be so costly that it'd be better to use it to renovate derelict buildings (as mentioned elsewhere). Here in a very rural area there are several large old mills, warehouses etc. that would be best turned into one or at most 2-bedroomed flats, as there's a *huge* shortage of affordable housing for single people and young couples starting out. [Post edited 17 May 2023 20:46]
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| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:54 - May 17 with 1808 views | HARRY10 |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:24 - May 17 by Ryorry |
Lol, what makes you think this corrupt current tory govt. would be any different from developers "hold(ing) everybody to ransom" and "looking to turn a huge profit on the build"?! |
I think it is accepted that the current bunch of crooks and incompetents are on their way out.
Social housing can be easily afforded (to build) by simply switching the payments to government builders. The chap I used ogive a lift to was being charged £575 a month for what was once a bedroom in a house that is well past it's habitation time. There are 10 other 'dwellings' there. It is not far removed from the Victorian rat holes of Dickens and Fagin. Yet barely is an eyebrow raised that such huge sums are being handed over to Rachman style landlords.
Demolish such slums and have the building costs paid for by the saved housing benefit. Odd how Tories bleat about home ownership, as it is an investment, unless it happens to be local taxpayers money
Nearly 10% of the property in the UK ssecond/holiday homes, meaning whole swathes of the country are no go area for many. Thatchers lunatic idea of selling off council homes was deeply flawed, as we are now seeing. As the original buyers die off, the children sell off the house.... to a landord company, which means tens of thousands of council gouses are now being rented back to the council at 2/3 times rent to what the council charges other tenants. The economics of the madhouse.
But the policy was never about improving housing, but raising money that could cut taxes so as to remain in power. Much as with the utilities where the waters are now filled with sh it and the trains are having to be taken back into public ownership. It is whether you see the utilities as needing to be run to serve the community, or to make a profit for foreign state owned companies. | | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:57 - May 17 with 1811 views | bluestandard |
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but look at it from the developers perspective. Most people don't appreciate that land values are 'residual' ie. the price is worked out backwards from the anticipated gross development value of the site, minus the build costs, profit margin and planning obligations (eg affordable housing, s.106 contributions etc). The price that the developer can afford to pay for the land is what is left after all that. It is usually paid to the landowner up front on the grant of planning permission. Whilst a developer might take a view on the profit margin being squeezed, why would they build it out if the market changes and the projected GDV drops below the total of the price paid for the land plus build costs and planning obligations? Developers aren't obliged to make a loss right?
Of course there are some nasty developers out there who are just interested in maximising profit and the above doesn't apply, but my point is that the problems in the system are 'structural' and developers motivations are not entirely to blame. Maybe introducing something like a land tax for owners of land would be a good thing, as in theory it would make land cheaper, and developers would be able to acquire land more easily and in a different way. It might also make house prices cheaper, since the underlying land value would diminish. | | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 21:04 - May 17 with 1804 views | bluestandard |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 20:41 - May 17 by Ryorry |
Downvoted because it disregards/excludes taking any account of individual personal circumstances, emotions, & physical & mental health.
Any financial incentive that might be taken up by some would likely be so costly that it'd be better to use it to renovate derelict buildings (as mentioned elsewhere). Here in a very rural area there are several large old mills, warehouses etc. that would be best turned into one or at most 2-bedroomed flats, as there's a *huge* shortage of affordable housing for single people and young couples starting out. [Post edited 17 May 2023 20:46]
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The poster said that there should be incentives for people to leave underoccupied houses. That is neutral of peoples individual circumstances. There is no compulsion to do so.
The point here is that older people don't have enough viable choices when it comes to downsizing. Every review of this area comes to this conclusion. Incentives could include zero stamp duty for downsizers, and better incentives to build retirement housing, which is often more costly than standard housing when you factor in all the disability adaptations and provisions when compared to standard housing.
I agree with you that there is a huge shortfall of affordable housing and this is even more acute in older persons housing. | | | |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 21:09 - May 17 with 1799 views | bluestandard |
| The housing crisis - build new villages or small towns? on 15:39 - May 17 by TalkingBlues |
Wonderful idea, but the reality is that people just won't move out of a bigger house without HUGE incentive, which would be unaffordable, hence the alternative, taxing them out, not saying I agree, but people are predictably selfish. |
The incentives need not be any bigger than those we offer first time buyers eg. stamp duty cuts, policy from government to reduce the cost of retirement housing in general. Maybe even a special government bond which people could invest the residual funds from the house sale into to get an enhanced return. There are so many possibilities. | | | |
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