| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site 09:59 - Jun 20 with 25428 views | davblue |
If they are still alive, i dread to think how they are feeling.
Doesn't sound like there's much hope for them judging by the bits that are being released. |  | | |  |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:38 - Jun 24 with 2963 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:03 - Jun 24 by ibbleobble |
“Victims” - man-up. If they’re victim of anything, it’s their own stupidity. If 5 wing suit proximity fliers went up a mountain and didn’t make it to the bottom, they’d be a footnote in a newspaper at best. The fact you want to outpour emotion because mainstream media prompts you to is a bit farcical - I’m sure your empathy will subside in the next few days when a new media carrot is dangled. Did you go outside and clap the NHS during Covid because the TV told you to? I suspect so. |
Who's "outpouring emotion"?
I feel sorry for you if you have a limit on your empathy. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:19 - Jun 24 with 2906 views | DJR |
Perhaps John Donne summed it up best.
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |  | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:25 - Jun 24 with 2892 views | JohnTy |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:19 - Jun 24 by DJR |
Perhaps John Donne summed it up best.
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
Totally agree.
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 16:36 - Jun 24 with 2795 views | tampa_bay |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:49 - Jun 23 by Ryorry |
As far as the 'search & rescue' aspect is concerned, the director of film 'Titanic' is himself an underwater explorer who's been involved in the construction of submersibles & has extensive contacts within the sector.
In an interview on R4 this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001n20k (from 2hrs19' approx) he said that it was clear to him as soon as he got reports on Monday morning that the submersible had lost both comms & navigation at 3500m on its initial descent, that there'd been a catastrophic event, probably an implosion, immediately at that point, and that the sub would therefore be found on the seabed directly underneath - as it was eventually, by the US Coastguard.
He thought the 'limited oxygen' narrative had been very cruelly & unnecessarily played out, esp so for the relatives of course. He said he bit his lip hard not to say anything, as he felt the last thing they needed was conflicting narratives from unsolicited quarters. |
This is my brother in law saying the same thing within a few hours of them losing contact. I think just about everyone with any level of expertise knew quite quickly what had happened.
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:03 - Jun 24 with 2772 views | blueasfook |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:37 - Jun 24 by ibbleobble |
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom but you missed the point. I have no empathy for those who chose to put their life in danger purely for kicks. If you chose to do a dangerous activity, accept the risks and the consequences. The coverage it’s getting is a sad indictment of how puerile media consumption has become; the greater story should look for solutions for those continually losing their lives to escape poverty or oppression. |
So you're stupid to get into an unsafe craft if you're rich, but a victim if you're poor?
Ok then. Thanks for putting me straight. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:23 - Jun 24 with 2728 views | WeWereZombies |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:03 - Jun 24 by blueasfook |
So you're stupid to get into an unsafe craft if you're rich, but a victim if you're poor?
Ok then. Thanks for putting me straight. |
Consider the approach road to these decisions - on one you have money, privilege and no one has an economic hold on you that leaves you with little choice but to attempt a perilous voyage. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:28 - Jun 24 with 2725 views | blueasfook |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:23 - Jun 24 by WeWereZombies |
Consider the approach road to these decisions - on one you have money, privilege and no one has an economic hold on you that leaves you with little choice but to attempt a perilous voyage. |
Don't a lot of these people pay money to go on these boats? I think it's well known most crossing the channel pay a few thousand to the traffickers to make the crossing. So basically the same, if you're paying money to go a certain death, then yes, you're making poor decisions. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:45 - Jun 24 with 2706 views | stonojnr |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 16:36 - Jun 24 by tampa_bay |
This is my brother in law saying the same thing within a few hours of them losing contact. I think just about everyone with any level of expertise knew quite quickly what had happened.
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Yeah I did see one ex navy submariner complain how everyone had become sub experts instantly, which maybe was a fair point.
But I think once you understood the depth they were at, what was reported, instant loss of communication/transponder (maybe if theyd reported those on the Polar Prince had heard a large bang at the same time) and then the pure physics involved there was only one conclusion to draw. |  | | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 23:08 - Jun 24 with 2611 views | WeWereZombies |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:28 - Jun 24 by blueasfook |
Don't a lot of these people pay money to go on these boats? I think it's well known most crossing the channel pay a few thousand to the traffickers to make the crossing. So basically the same, if you're paying money to go a certain death, then yes, you're making poor decisions. |
Generally their last few thousands, not some of the many thousands. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 04:53 - Jun 25 with 2559 views | noggin |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 23:08 - Jun 24 by WeWereZombies |
Generally their last few thousands, not some of the many thousands. |
Often their extended family's last few thousands. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 06:52 - Jun 25 with 2529 views | NewcyBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 17:28 - Jun 24 by blueasfook |
Don't a lot of these people pay money to go on these boats? I think it's well known most crossing the channel pay a few thousand to the traffickers to make the crossing. So basically the same, if you're paying money to go a certain death, then yes, you're making poor decisions. |
I don’t think you can compare dying in an instant on a submersible that you’ve paid hundreds of thousands to go on with dying slowly in fear, with water rushing in and people around you screaming and crying.
One set of people make the journey to look for a better life. The other made the journey as some sort of vanity or status.
So yes “a lot of these people” pay money to cross on boats, but there is a difference between desperation and foolishness. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:24 - Jun 25 with 2471 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 06:52 - Jun 25 by NewcyBlue |
I don’t think you can compare dying in an instant on a submersible that you’ve paid hundreds of thousands to go on with dying slowly in fear, with water rushing in and people around you screaming and crying.
One set of people make the journey to look for a better life. The other made the journey as some sort of vanity or status.
So yes “a lot of these people” pay money to cross on boats, but there is a difference between desperation and foolishness. |
You can still have empathy for both. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:25 - Jun 25 with 2470 views | WeWereZombies |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:24 - Jun 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You can still have empathy for both. |
And it is possible to have empathy for both but more sympathy for migrants...and total disgust at the way in which the BBC and other media outlets currently set their agenda. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:36 - Jun 25 with 2451 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:25 - Jun 25 by WeWereZombies |
And it is possible to have empathy for both but more sympathy for migrants...and total disgust at the way in which the BBC and other media outlets currently set their agenda. |
But that’s not what you said.
“ the empathy that I can give to the five in that submersible is not that heartfelt”
Not “ I have genuine empathy for both but more sympathy for migrants...and total disgust at the way in which the BBC and other media outlets currently set their agenda”. That would have been entirely reasonable.
“Not that heartfelt” is what you said. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:37 - Jun 25 with 2446 views | WeWereZombies |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:36 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
But that’s not what you said.
“ the empathy that I can give to the five in that submersible is not that heartfelt”
Not “ I have genuine empathy for both but more sympathy for migrants...and total disgust at the way in which the BBC and other media outlets currently set their agenda”. That would have been entirely reasonable.
“Not that heartfelt” is what you said. |
You are, as ever, confusing the actual with the hypothetical. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:43 - Jun 25 with 2434 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:37 - Jun 25 by WeWereZombies |
You are, as ever, confusing the actual with the hypothetical. |
I’m literally re typing your own words. I’ll leave it there. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:51 - Jun 25 with 2429 views | WeWereZombies |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:43 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m literally re typing your own words. I’ll leave it there. |
You most definitely will not be allowed to leave it there. Your failure has been to misunderstand the proportionality. I have minimal empathy for the occupants of the submersible because I do not know them or anyone like them, I have had no contact to my knowledge with people like that but they are people and, as another poster pointed out by quoting John Donne, every death is a loss to our species. I have lived alongside and conversed with migrants so i know what their lot in life is, that makes it much easier for me to empathise with them. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:24 - Jun 25 with 2413 views | Zapers |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:51 - Jun 25 by WeWereZombies |
You most definitely will not be allowed to leave it there. Your failure has been to misunderstand the proportionality. I have minimal empathy for the occupants of the submersible because I do not know them or anyone like them, I have had no contact to my knowledge with people like that but they are people and, as another poster pointed out by quoting John Donne, every death is a loss to our species. I have lived alongside and conversed with migrants so i know what their lot in life is, that makes it much easier for me to empathise with them. |
"You most definitely will not be allowed to leave it there"
I wish I had so much control over what others do;) | | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:27 - Jun 25 with 2407 views | WeWereZombies |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:24 - Jun 25 by Zapers |
"You most definitely will not be allowed to leave it there"
I wish I had so much control over what others do;) |
True, I've gone in two footed and properly scared him away.
Sorry, Glassers. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:29 - Jun 25 with 2407 views | Ryorry |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:19 - Jun 24 by DJR |
Perhaps John Donne summed it up best.
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
Could add to that "The quality of mercy is not strained", as the thread appears to be descending into somewhat unseemly wrangling now.
https://poets.org/poem/merchant-venice-act-iv-scene-i-quality-mercy-not-strained |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:31 - Jun 25 with 2375 views | NewcyBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:24 - Jun 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You can still have empathy for both. |
I would have sympathy for one, but empathy for the other.
At sea it doesn’t matter who is in distress, we help them. Their wealth is no consequence when it comes to the sea. So when we get called upon to rescue, that’s what we do.
I can tell you who I would have more satisfaction helping though, and it’s not a bunch of rich idiots that think money can take them anywhere. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:50 - Jun 25 with 2351 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:31 - Jun 25 by NewcyBlue |
I would have sympathy for one, but empathy for the other.
At sea it doesn’t matter who is in distress, we help them. Their wealth is no consequence when it comes to the sea. So when we get called upon to rescue, that’s what we do.
I can tell you who I would have more satisfaction helping though, and it’s not a bunch of rich idiots that think money can take them anywhere. |
It's rather predictable that it's turned into being about money.
What I see is a father and son dying together in a tragic accident, I think it's awful and don't really need to think much further than that. We all do dangerous things every day, where do you draw the line at feeling sympathy? And why do people feel the need to stick the boot in saying how much they don't care/making jokes (not saying you're doing this BTW)?
Just all very unseemly. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:57 - Jun 25 with 2325 views | the_toff |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:50 - Jun 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's rather predictable that it's turned into being about money.
What I see is a father and son dying together in a tragic accident, I think it's awful and don't really need to think much further than that. We all do dangerous things every day, where do you draw the line at feeling sympathy? And why do people feel the need to stick the boot in saying how much they don't care/making jokes (not saying you're doing this BTW)?
Just all very unseemly. |
I agree. People on this thread have said their sympathy wouldn’t be heartfelt and they can’t blame others for ‘rolling their eyes’. And that making jokes at the expense of these people is fair game.
On a human level it’s absolutely shameful. The money involved is irrelevant. I’m not sure why some have tried to pivot this into a competition of who deserves more sympathy, we could play that game all day. The original point was clearly in relation to this incident and some of the posts in here are a depressing reflection of society unfortunately. As social media often is more widely now.
I can’t and won’t attempt to make people feel a certain way, if they don’t they don’t, but I find it quite unsavoury. | | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:17 - Jun 25 with 2286 views | NewcyBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:50 - Jun 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's rather predictable that it's turned into being about money.
What I see is a father and son dying together in a tragic accident, I think it's awful and don't really need to think much further than that. We all do dangerous things every day, where do you draw the line at feeling sympathy? And why do people feel the need to stick the boot in saying how much they don't care/making jokes (not saying you're doing this BTW)?
Just all very unseemly. |
I think you misunderstand my point.
It’s not about money, it’s about intent.
My satisfaction at rescuing migrants, having actually done so before, is immense. I ensured those whose intentions were to get their family to brighter pastures where they could make a life for themselves and provide a better future for their family.
Rescuing people who put themselves in a situation out of choice, rather than necessity, for nothing more than to say they have, would be a job. Get the job done. The satisfaction would be saving people, there would be no more than that.
I can tell you that having been delayed getting home to see the twins when they were born prematurely, as we were called upon to make sure boats full of migrants got to safety, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:19 - Jun 25 with 2283 views | Ryorry |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:57 - Jun 25 by the_toff |
I agree. People on this thread have said their sympathy wouldn’t be heartfelt and they can’t blame others for ‘rolling their eyes’. And that making jokes at the expense of these people is fair game.
On a human level it’s absolutely shameful. The money involved is irrelevant. I’m not sure why some have tried to pivot this into a competition of who deserves more sympathy, we could play that game all day. The original point was clearly in relation to this incident and some of the posts in here are a depressing reflection of society unfortunately. As social media often is more widely now.
I can’t and won’t attempt to make people feel a certain way, if they don’t they don’t, but I find it quite unsavoury. |
Downvoted because you continue to persistently misrepresent what I said, despite my several times explaining to you (and everyone else on the thread apparently understanding the comment). | |
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