| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site 09:59 - Jun 20 with 22941 views | davblue |
If they are still alive, i dread to think how they are feeling.
Doesn't sound like there's much hope for them judging by the bits that are being released. |  | | |  |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 00:04 - Jun 23 with 2195 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 22:47 - Jun 22 by Lord_Lucan |
As oppose to other people’s deaths? |
I don't think you should be joking about anyone's death when it's just happened, to be honest, but there was a father and son in this. The son was only 19 with his whole life ahead of him.
If they'd been killed by a terrorist would people be joking about it?
Or is it ok because it was a rich person's folly? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 07:14 - Jun 23 with 2041 views | GlasgowBlue |
What an incredibly sad end to this story. Their loved ones must have hoped there was a chance of rescue and most people were hoping for a happy ending to this. However, it appears this was never going to happen. If reports are true, at least they died instantly rather than slowly suffocating in such cramped conditions.
R.I.P. to those who died. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:18 - Jun 23 with 1979 views | IpswichKnight |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 23:38 - Jun 22 by WicklowBlue |
RIP, Irrespective of the wealthy individuals involved this is a horrific incident. From what is reported so far it appears that the pressure hull experienced a catastrophic failure.
Chris Parry was on the radio again this morning and called the company a "cowboy outfit" and that if there is any positive out of this is better regulation of this area.
Along with the company website boldly dispelling safety over innovation.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0unoXQGT6kIlTkBsm0OtN1?si=Xbu65to2SKOqagI63cfe6
https://castbox.fm/vb/606048231 |
Not sure you can regulate the area as it’s international waters. Countries can sign bilateral agreements not to allow their registered ships to be used as mother ships but it’s meaningless unless everyone agrees.
The Estonia that sunk off Sweden has been marked as a grave with Swedish, Finish, Estonian and British ships banned from being used, however Germany hasn’t signed up so anyone wanting to visit the grave ( and they do ) uses German registered ships.
There will be a flood of people visiting Titanic as in about 15-20 years time there will be nothing left to see. |  | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:35 - Jun 23 with 1966 views | NewcyBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:18 - Jun 23 by IpswichKnight |
Not sure you can regulate the area as it’s international waters. Countries can sign bilateral agreements not to allow their registered ships to be used as mother ships but it’s meaningless unless everyone agrees.
The Estonia that sunk off Sweden has been marked as a grave with Swedish, Finish, Estonian and British ships banned from being used, however Germany hasn’t signed up so anyone wanting to visit the grave ( and they do ) uses German registered ships.
There will be a flood of people visiting Titanic as in about 15-20 years time there will be nothing left to see. |
I don’t think there will be a flood of people visiting the site of the Titanic.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the International Maritime Organisation now look at regulating the area, and any such submersible vessels that wish to visit.
The maritime world is a very reactive one, where legislation often follows disasters.
Exxon Valdez (MARPOL)
Titanic (SOLAS)
Herald of Free Enterprise (ISM)
9/11 (this brought in ISPS)
There are constant meetings of Marine Environment Protection Committees, Marine Safety Committees, all as part of the International Maritime Organisation. These committees agree on changes to regulations that then must be ratified by maritime nations.
Visiting the wreck site isn’t so easy anyway, and fraught with danger. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:56 - Jun 23 with 1934 views | BloomBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:35 - Jun 23 by NewcyBlue |
I don’t think there will be a flood of people visiting the site of the Titanic.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the International Maritime Organisation now look at regulating the area, and any such submersible vessels that wish to visit.
The maritime world is a very reactive one, where legislation often follows disasters.
Exxon Valdez (MARPOL)
Titanic (SOLAS)
Herald of Free Enterprise (ISM)
9/11 (this brought in ISPS)
There are constant meetings of Marine Environment Protection Committees, Marine Safety Committees, all as part of the International Maritime Organisation. These committees agree on changes to regulations that then must be ratified by maritime nations.
Visiting the wreck site isn’t so easy anyway, and fraught with danger. |
Although I guess as technology & knowledge in the area of deep water subs increase we will reach the stage where it will be a lot easier to travel to the site?
A bit like early flights/space travel, those aircraft / space craft would never pass any regulations these days but it was those early attempts which ultimately resulted in people viewing air travel as normal and we're heading in a similar direction with space travel. But I still find it fascinating that we know more about space than we do about the deep water seabed |  | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:43 - Jun 23 with 1901 views | unbelievablue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 07:14 - Jun 23 by GlasgowBlue |
What an incredibly sad end to this story. Their loved ones must have hoped there was a chance of rescue and most people were hoping for a happy ending to this. However, it appears this was never going to happen. If reports are true, at least they died instantly rather than slowly suffocating in such cramped conditions.
R.I.P. to those who died. |
Very glad it happened the way it did. Losing oxygen over a few days stuck at the bottom of the ocean would be brutal. I've seen some vids on Twitter of how pressure implosions happen...they'd never have known it even happened. Instantaneous. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:45 - Jun 23 with 1855 views | the_toff |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:56 - Jun 23 by BloomBlue |
Although I guess as technology & knowledge in the area of deep water subs increase we will reach the stage where it will be a lot easier to travel to the site?
A bit like early flights/space travel, those aircraft / space craft would never pass any regulations these days but it was those early attempts which ultimately resulted in people viewing air travel as normal and we're heading in a similar direction with space travel. But I still find it fascinating that we know more about space than we do about the deep water seabed |
There might not be much left to visit in the not too distant future, given the rate of erosion and bacteria eating away at the metal.
My view would be to leave it be. We know what we need to know of the disaster and have taken the learnings from it. Going down to look is understandably fascinating, to some more than others, but I'm not really sure what we have to gain from it now other than ones personal satisfaction.
Feel especially for the young lad in this case, who according to his family was uneasy about going and doing so as a fathers day bonding trip with his old man. He had his life ahead of him. At least the others were doing something they loved. Still very sad of course. No doubt their families take some comfort from the fact it would've been instantaneous and they would've known nothing of it. | | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:49 - Jun 23 with 1845 views | Ryorry |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:43 - Jun 23 by unbelievablue |
Very glad it happened the way it did. Losing oxygen over a few days stuck at the bottom of the ocean would be brutal. I've seen some vids on Twitter of how pressure implosions happen...they'd never have known it even happened. Instantaneous. |
As far as the 'search & rescue' aspect is concerned, the director of film 'Titanic' is himself an underwater explorer who's been involved in the construction of submersibles & has extensive contacts within the sector.
In an interview on R4 this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001n20k (from 2hrs19' approx) he said that it was clear to him as soon as he got reports on Monday morning that the submersible had lost both comms & navigation at 3500m on its initial descent, that there'd been a catastrophic event, probably an implosion, immediately at that point, and that the sub would therefore be found on the seabed directly underneath - as it was eventually, by the US Coastguard.
He thought the 'limited oxygen' narrative had been very cruelly & unnecessarily played out, esp so for the relatives of course. He said he bit his lip hard not to say anything, as he felt the last thing they needed was conflicting narratives from unsolicited quarters. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:59 - Jun 23 with 1803 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:49 - Jun 23 by Ryorry |
As far as the 'search & rescue' aspect is concerned, the director of film 'Titanic' is himself an underwater explorer who's been involved in the construction of submersibles & has extensive contacts within the sector.
In an interview on R4 this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001n20k (from 2hrs19' approx) he said that it was clear to him as soon as he got reports on Monday morning that the submersible had lost both comms & navigation at 3500m on its initial descent, that there'd been a catastrophic event, probably an implosion, immediately at that point, and that the sub would therefore be found on the seabed directly underneath - as it was eventually, by the US Coastguard.
He thought the 'limited oxygen' narrative had been very cruelly & unnecessarily played out, esp so for the relatives of course. He said he bit his lip hard not to say anything, as he felt the last thing they needed was conflicting narratives from unsolicited quarters. |
The rescue operation does feel like bit of charade, I think most people who are involved with underwater exploration knew it was a lost cause from the off.
As Cameron says, to lose everything at once Immediately suggests an explosion or similar.
Sad for all involved but you couldn't have paid me £200k to go down in one of those |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:20 - Jun 23 with 1742 views | stonojnr |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:49 - Jun 23 by Ryorry |
As far as the 'search & rescue' aspect is concerned, the director of film 'Titanic' is himself an underwater explorer who's been involved in the construction of submersibles & has extensive contacts within the sector.
In an interview on R4 this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001n20k (from 2hrs19' approx) he said that it was clear to him as soon as he got reports on Monday morning that the submersible had lost both comms & navigation at 3500m on its initial descent, that there'd been a catastrophic event, probably an implosion, immediately at that point, and that the sub would therefore be found on the seabed directly underneath - as it was eventually, by the US Coastguard.
He thought the 'limited oxygen' narrative had been very cruelly & unnecessarily played out, esp so for the relatives of course. He said he bit his lip hard not to say anything, as he felt the last thing they needed was conflicting narratives from unsolicited quarters. |
but that was the media narrative presenting it as a story with the oxygen running it, we dont know what the US coastguard were telling the families directly in private especially as the US Navy had passed on information that pretty much confirmed an implosion had happened, they may well have told them we think its gone based on this, but the tiny chance it hasnt we'll keep searching till we are sure, and the media just played up the its stuck with limited oxygen angle because thats what OceanGate were saying the loudest.
I mean you dont need extensive contacts within the deep sea diving world to have got a feel on day 1 the design of this vehicle was totally unsuitable for the kind of thing it was doing, and it was most likely cause of failure and then loss of all on board. | | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:32 - Jun 23 with 1726 views | Ryorry |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 12:20 - Jun 23 by stonojnr |
but that was the media narrative presenting it as a story with the oxygen running it, we dont know what the US coastguard were telling the families directly in private especially as the US Navy had passed on information that pretty much confirmed an implosion had happened, they may well have told them we think its gone based on this, but the tiny chance it hasnt we'll keep searching till we are sure, and the media just played up the its stuck with limited oxygen angle because thats what OceanGate were saying the loudest.
I mean you dont need extensive contacts within the deep sea diving world to have got a feel on day 1 the design of this vehicle was totally unsuitable for the kind of thing it was doing, and it was most likely cause of failure and then loss of all on board. |
That's true, I think you're probably correct re your first para.
Agree with you re your second para (tho I think the submersible had made a couple of 'successful' trips previously). | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 13:34 - Jun 23 with 1671 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 00:04 - Jun 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't think you should be joking about anyone's death when it's just happened, to be honest, but there was a father and son in this. The son was only 19 with his whole life ahead of him.
If they'd been killed by a terrorist would people be joking about it?
Or is it ok because it was a rich person's folly? |
I don’t think I said it was ok, I just don’t feel qualified to condemn those who do, I am not an appointed moral adjudicator.
Yeah I feel sorry for the boy, wealth has absolutely nothing to do with it, not sure where you got that from.
Everyone deals with death in different ways. Lady Lucan is in tears every anniversary of her dads death even now, and he died 20 years ago. She also wells up on Father’s Day, Mother’s Day etc.
I take a different approach and deal with death in a different way.
My dad was my best friend but his funeral was one of the funniest days ever, we all had a big party, jazz band and hog roast - and to be honest I can’t remember what year he died, let alone specific month or day.
Ultimately though you don’t know these people and thankfully they seem to have died instantly.
My heart goes out more to people experiencing a living death, kids being trafficked, people in war situations etc etc.
Don’t judge people Dolly. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 15:04 - Jun 23 with 1602 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 13:34 - Jun 23 by Lord_Lucan |
I don’t think I said it was ok, I just don’t feel qualified to condemn those who do, I am not an appointed moral adjudicator.
Yeah I feel sorry for the boy, wealth has absolutely nothing to do with it, not sure where you got that from.
Everyone deals with death in different ways. Lady Lucan is in tears every anniversary of her dads death even now, and he died 20 years ago. She also wells up on Father’s Day, Mother’s Day etc.
I take a different approach and deal with death in a different way.
My dad was my best friend but his funeral was one of the funniest days ever, we all had a big party, jazz band and hog roast - and to be honest I can’t remember what year he died, let alone specific month or day.
Ultimately though you don’t know these people and thankfully they seem to have died instantly.
My heart goes out more to people experiencing a living death, kids being trafficked, people in war situations etc etc.
Don’t judge people Dolly. |
There are lots of things that are horrible and your heart can go out/you can have empathy with all of them.
I think having a joyous party for your dad is great and a celebration of his life. All funerals should be like that. I wrote and performed a funny poem for my nan's funeral. Tough crowd that was, people seemed like they wanted to laugh but felt they shouldn't because it was a funeral! I thought I'd bombed, but it was surprising how many came up to me afterwards and said they loved it and wanted a copy.
I think those examples are a bit different to joking about people - especially young people - dying in a horrific accident. I only asked if it was a rich thing because I don't see people joking about other tragic deaths as they're happening, so wondered what the difference was. As I've said, we've seen plenty of terrorist attack stories while we've all been posting on here and people generally say how awful it is, RIP and all that. You don't tend to get jokes about it.
I try not to judge others but you have to draw a line somewhere, so I guess my line's a bit nearer than yours. Maybe you shouldn't judge me! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 15:24 - Jun 23 with 1586 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 15:04 - Jun 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
There are lots of things that are horrible and your heart can go out/you can have empathy with all of them.
I think having a joyous party for your dad is great and a celebration of his life. All funerals should be like that. I wrote and performed a funny poem for my nan's funeral. Tough crowd that was, people seemed like they wanted to laugh but felt they shouldn't because it was a funeral! I thought I'd bombed, but it was surprising how many came up to me afterwards and said they loved it and wanted a copy.
I think those examples are a bit different to joking about people - especially young people - dying in a horrific accident. I only asked if it was a rich thing because I don't see people joking about other tragic deaths as they're happening, so wondered what the difference was. As I've said, we've seen plenty of terrorist attack stories while we've all been posting on here and people generally say how awful it is, RIP and all that. You don't tend to get jokes about it.
I try not to judge others but you have to draw a line somewhere, so I guess my line's a bit nearer than yours. Maybe you shouldn't judge me! |
Where exactly did I judge you?
“ I don't see people joking about other tragic deaths as they're happening”
Really? The only person I can recall not having a single joke made about them after death was SBR. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 21:20 - Jun 23 with 1476 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 15:24 - Jun 23 by Lord_Lucan |
Where exactly did I judge you?
“ I don't see people joking about other tragic deaths as they're happening”
Really? The only person I can recall not having a single joke made about them after death was SBR. |
"Don’t judge people Dolly" ...but my comment that you were judging me by saying that was slightly tongue-in-cheek.
I said tragic deaths as they're happening.
I haven't seen people on here joking about any other tragedies as they're happening. Just off the top of my head, how many jokes have you seen on here about the Manchester bombing, even now a long time after the event, let alone when it was happening? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:27 - Jun 24 with 1360 views | ibbleobble |
Im more concerned about the hundreds of Pakistani migrants who died when their boat sank than a few lost thrill seekers putting themselves in harm’s way for kicks. | | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:51 - Jun 24 with 1339 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:27 - Jun 24 by ibbleobble |
Im more concerned about the hundreds of Pakistani migrants who died when their boat sank than a few lost thrill seekers putting themselves in harm’s way for kicks. |
You’re allowed to be concerned by both. It isn’t a binary choice. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:36 - Jun 24 with 1323 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:51 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re allowed to be concerned by both. It isn’t a binary choice. |
Indeed. It's not like you only have a certain amount of empathy and have to be careful not to use it all up.
And I really don't see this need to declare that certain deaths are more 'worthy' than others. Just because they were doing something for pleasure doesn't make it any less tragic. Any situation where a father and son have died together has got to illicit some empathy surely? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:44 - Jun 24 with 1320 views | Radlett_blue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:18 - Jun 22 by StokieBlue |
Is riding in a submersible that you didn't build, don't own and don't drive actually adventuring though? Doesn't seem like pushing ones self, more just something to do because you can.
Seems quite different to having to physically drag yourself up Everest.
SB |
Everest these days is more a test of whether your body can cope with the oxygen deprivation that occurs at high altitude, rather than mountaineering skill. |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:48 - Jun 24 with 1319 views | WeWereZombies |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:27 - Jun 24 by ibbleobble |
Im more concerned about the hundreds of Pakistani migrants who died when their boat sank than a few lost thrill seekers putting themselves in harm’s way for kicks. |
Quite, the empathy that I can give to the five in that submersible is not that heartfelt, especially when reflecting on a report of over seven thousand migrant deaths last year with over half due to drowning:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-65932680 |  |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:26 - Jun 24 with 1282 views | Ryorry |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 09:44 - Jun 24 by Radlett_blue |
Everest these days is more a test of whether your body can cope with the oxygen deprivation that occurs at high altitude, rather than mountaineering skill. |
The more important test of whether they're decent, responsible human beings is whether they take their litter back down with them, or leave it to despoil the incredible natural world they should be admiring -
https://martinedstrom.com/stories/everest-trash/ | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:37 - Jun 24 with 1271 views | ibbleobble |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 08:51 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re allowed to be concerned by both. It isn’t a binary choice. |
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom but you missed the point. I have no empathy for those who chose to put their life in danger purely for kicks. If you chose to do a dangerous activity, accept the risks and the consequences. The coverage it’s getting is a sad indictment of how puerile media consumption has become; the greater story should look for solutions for those continually losing their lives to escape poverty or oppression. | | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:40 - Jun 24 with 1265 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:37 - Jun 24 by ibbleobble |
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom but you missed the point. I have no empathy for those who chose to put their life in danger purely for kicks. If you chose to do a dangerous activity, accept the risks and the consequences. The coverage it’s getting is a sad indictment of how puerile media consumption has become; the greater story should look for solutions for those continually losing their lives to escape poverty or oppression. |
I haven’t missed anything. You’ve prioritised your compassion and empathy. Most decent people have enough to share around with all victims, and families of victims, of tragedies. | |
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| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:03 - Jun 24 with 1236 views | ibbleobble |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 10:40 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven’t missed anything. You’ve prioritised your compassion and empathy. Most decent people have enough to share around with all victims, and families of victims, of tragedies. |
“Victims” - man-up. If they’re victim of anything, it’s their own stupidity. If 5 wing suit proximity fliers went up a mountain and didn’t make it to the bottom, they’d be a footnote in a newspaper at best. The fact you want to outpour emotion because mainstream media prompts you to is a bit farcical - I’m sure your empathy will subside in the next few days when a new media carrot is dangled. Did you go outside and clap the NHS during Covid because the TV told you to? I suspect so. | | | |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:07 - Jun 24 with 1220 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Those people who a lost near the Titantic site on 11:03 - Jun 24 by ibbleobble |
“Victims” - man-up. If they’re victim of anything, it’s their own stupidity. If 5 wing suit proximity fliers went up a mountain and didn’t make it to the bottom, they’d be a footnote in a newspaper at best. The fact you want to outpour emotion because mainstream media prompts you to is a bit farcical - I’m sure your empathy will subside in the next few days when a new media carrot is dangled. Did you go outside and clap the NHS during Covid because the TV told you to? I suspect so. |
And what are you doing to help those poor souls who keep getting washed up on the shores of the Mediterranean?
Are you lobbying your MP and the government to take in more refugees and create safe routes? Are you marching in Westminster in solidarity with refugees? Are you spending your free time working with refugee groups in order to help them more easily integrate into society? Do you raise money for refugee groups?
Please don’t attempt to patronise me when you have no idea how far my empathy and deeds spread. | |
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