| Paul Cook at Chesterfield 12:10 - Sep 28 with 9689 views | ChampionsofInnsbruck |
Paul Cook's Chesterfield have now taken 31 points from a possible 36 available in the National League this season. - Bet365
Good to see him recover some of his past form there, not a bad guy at all, just didn't deliver here. I hope he does well and gets them back into the Football League. |  | | |  |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:35 - Sep 28 with 1442 views | Vegtablue |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 14:09 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
He came here because Middlesborough pushed him out the door and we were his only option - am sure Cook helped but Morsy spent the first few months of his time here in a bit of a funk about it all as didn't want to be here.
He's been utterly superb since McKenna got hold of him though |
Do you have this on good authority Joe?
I remember Morsy evolving into a substitute at Middlesbrough and I remember us strongly pursuing him and Crooks. I also remember the funk. I don't remember him becoming effectively a Championship outcast though, whose only option was to drop down a division. Boro were very well stocked in CM at the time and Morsy did very well at Wigan. |  | | |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:36 - Sep 28 with 1431 views | HighgateBlue |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 12:45 - Sep 28 by Darth_Koont |
That’s one reading. But an unfair one IMO as it doesn’t address where we were when he took over from Lambert and then how easy it is to get a completely brand-new team playing.
I’m certainly glad we have McKenna but a lot of the expectations on Cook when he took over during the lowest point of our modern history always seemed ridiculously short-sighted and unreasonable.
But I’m glad McKenna didn’t have to deal with all that. He may well have done a lot better but it could also have stymied his career here if he didn’t hit the ground running. Especially with a style that demands working with the players to develop their roles and understanding of situations. |
I do like Cook as a person and I'm happy for him.
But in terms of how well he did at Ipswich, his win percentage was worse than Keane, Jewell, McCarthy, and Lambert. Worse than all but Hurst in the post-Bobby Robson era.
I'm not sure giving him Lambert's performance as an excuse is valid when he managed a worse win percentage than Lambert with more money against weaker teams (a chunk of Lambert's tenure was in the Championship).
The league one era was the darkest time any of us have seen, and Cook statistically performed the worst during that period of the three managers we had.
The fact that Cook was likeable and Lambert was grumpy has tended to cloud the facts in my humble opinion. |  | | |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:42 - Sep 28 with 1411 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 12:30 - Sep 28 by tonybied |
Didn't they fly out the blocks like a rocket ship last year too but then got rather derailed by injuries and the might of Wrexham and Notts County?*
*My memory isn't what it was so that may not be what actually happened |
That's pretty much how I remember it. They couldn't sustain the ridiculous pace kept up by the top 2.
I didn't think Cook was anywhere as good as a lot of people seem to think he is, but he's not a bad lower league manager. Seemed like a decent bloke too, so wish him all the best. He was honest with us when he was here and he left a pretty good legacy, even if it needed someone else to come in and polish it. He left us in a lot better sate than some of our useless managers under the Evans era. |  |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:44 - Sep 28 with 1403 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:42 - Sep 28 by Swansea_Blue |
That's pretty much how I remember it. They couldn't sustain the ridiculous pace kept up by the top 2.
I didn't think Cook was anywhere as good as a lot of people seem to think he is, but he's not a bad lower league manager. Seemed like a decent bloke too, so wish him all the best. He was honest with us when he was here and he left a pretty good legacy, even if it needed someone else to come in and polish it. He left us in a lot better sate than some of our useless managers under the Evans era. |
He's a very decent bloke, that I know for definite. It's a shame it never worked out as he got some things incredibly wrong here, and his treatment of certain players etc, but he's a good man and good to see him doing well at Chesterfield. |  |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:46 - Sep 28 with 1403 views | Vegtablue |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:30 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
Cook was trying to replace Cameron Burgess with Chey Dunkley, that was apparently one of the things that really p'd the board off and maybe expedited his departure - trying to replace players that were already the replacements he'd brought in |
Oh I don't defend his management to be sure. I'm just grateful the transfer window wasn't one of his failures. We saw what Keane did with the war chest back in 2010(?) and we saw the damage Hurst caused more recently. Thankfully Cook provided a platform from which we could build, even if he didn't know how to assemble it and soon afterwards wanted to replace good parts. If people want to argue he had a lucky window rather than a well-judged one then that's fine, I haven't got strong thoughts on that, but it was nonetheless a great window for us. | | | |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:49 - Sep 28 with 1387 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 14:04 - Sep 28 by tractorboy1978 |
He inherited a squad that was utter tripe. I think it's fair to criticise his tactfulness in delivering the demolition job but it was absolutely the right thing to do. People should read through the list of names below and check where most of these players are now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%9321_Ipswich_Town_F.C._season [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 14:07]
|
He inherited the worst ever group of players in the history of the club. Football wise, attitude wise... they were utterly disgusting. He failed with the players he signed but I'll be forever grateful to him for the Demolition Club and eradicate that rotten culture from our dressing room and give us a hope and new chapter. They didn't want to play for him, for Lambert, for Hurst.
Our leader and magnificent skipper Morsy joined us because he knew Cook. So did Chaplin. They rate him.
Wish him all the best and promotion with Chesterfield. |  | | |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:51 - Sep 28 with 1388 views | HankScorpio |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:49 - Sep 28 by Mach_foreignBlue |
He inherited the worst ever group of players in the history of the club. Football wise, attitude wise... they were utterly disgusting. He failed with the players he signed but I'll be forever grateful to him for the Demolition Club and eradicate that rotten culture from our dressing room and give us a hope and new chapter. They didn't want to play for him, for Lambert, for Hurst.
Our leader and magnificent skipper Morsy joined us because he knew Cook. So did Chaplin. They rate him.
Wish him all the best and promotion with Chesterfield. |
 |  |
| I expect nothing from you, except to die and be a very cheap funeral. |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 16:11 - Sep 28 with 1349 views | tractordownsouth |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 12:53 - Sep 28 by ElephantintheRoom |
You could argue he’s making McKenna look good by leaving him so many good signings |
I don't think he deserves a great deal of credit for those signings though. It doesn't take a genius to work out that proven Championship players like Walton, Morsy and Chaplin would do well in League One. Any other manager would have brought them in if they'd been given the budget to do it.
In fact I'd argue that the improvement of Morsy and Chaplin since McKenna arrived reflects badly on Cook and his coaching staff. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 06:53 - Sep 29 with 1301 views | pennblue |
You cant say he dis not deliver he only had 3 months with a newly assembled team. He had to rebuild a squad from scratch
If he had another 18 months and 3 extra transfer windows he would have had us right up there | |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 07:53 - Sep 29 with 1271 views | cressi |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 13:48 - Sep 28 by TheBoyBlue |
Didn't Morsy specifically come here because of Cook? |
Like most managers was quite excited on his arrival. He did clear the decks which 90% per cent was correct. His interviews were horrendous in 3 or 4 different voices. Results were inconsistent his back up team were mates and going to the pub is great , but it all looked from the outside unprofessional, hence why we have McKenna who is a hard working professional by all accounts who outside the football you don't hear any other stories. | | | |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 08:02 - Sep 29 with 1268 views | textbackup |
He built so much of that squad. Deserves some credit for our promotion IMO |  |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 08:19 - Sep 29 with 1260 views | Dyland |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 14:32 - Sep 28 by Simonds92 |
If he didnt we wouldn't currently be towards the top end of the championship. The players he got rid of have proven that they were not up to a promotion push at league 1 level. The players he brought in have proven they were Championship standard. |
“The players he brought in have proven they were Championship standard”
If one’s selective :)
He threw a lot of sh1t at it hoping some would stick. However he brought in Morsy and Chappers so nice one. Not sure that gives him much credit, though at the same time I really don’t feel the same negativity towards Cook as our roll call of underwhelming/hopeless/downright sh1te Evans era managers. The big yeh right with Cook was his attitude to coaching, as seen rather starkly compared with McKenna. Cook doesn’t get a pass, as Stevers puts it.
Magic gets a pass. Joe gets a pass. Mick kind of gets one for sorting out the mess left by successive clown brigades. McKenna is the best manager we’ve had since Burley. Play our cards right and with a fair wind he can surpass George. |  |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 08:23 - Sep 29 with 1244 views | itfcjoe |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:35 - Sep 28 by Vegtablue |
Do you have this on good authority Joe?
I remember Morsy evolving into a substitute at Middlesbrough and I remember us strongly pursuing him and Crooks. I also remember the funk. I don't remember him becoming effectively a Championship outcast though, whose only option was to drop down a division. Boro were very well stocked in CM at the time and Morsy did very well at Wigan. |
He has said it himself a couple of times how he didn't want to go down into L1, think one was on a BBC podcast and another on a official EFL Podcast at some point last season.
Think Warnock has mentioned it as well, that basically he was moved on and NW didn't want him to go and this was part of the push to him leaving as well.
I think he'd started every game for Boro that season, but then as end of window approached it became a big power play between the new DoF and Warnock which he was a pawn in |  |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 08:36 - Sep 29 with 1227 views | ibbleobble |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 12:45 - Sep 28 by Darth_Koont |
That’s one reading. But an unfair one IMO as it doesn’t address where we were when he took over from Lambert and then how easy it is to get a completely brand-new team playing.
I’m certainly glad we have McKenna but a lot of the expectations on Cook when he took over during the lowest point of our modern history always seemed ridiculously short-sighted and unreasonable.
But I’m glad McKenna didn’t have to deal with all that. He may well have done a lot better but it could also have stymied his career here if he didn’t hit the ground running. Especially with a style that demands working with the players to develop their roles and understanding of situations. |
I’m on your side of the fence on this one. That beleaguered rabble he inherited were a shambles and only Gill managed to get any sense of respectability out of them after working with the for years. It’s very evident in the sense that the large percentage left to lower league clubs and the careers have all bit disappeared.
Cook could have done better, no question but this “brought in his mates and blamed players thing” is nonsense - it happens at every club so to call him out on that is weak. Tactically too gung ho and defensively naïve most definitely. 5 or 6 of our starting 11 are Cook’s signings which shows vision even if his application was lacking. | | | |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 09:30 - Sep 29 with 1181 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ Paul Cook's Chesterfield have now taken 31 points from a possible 36 available in the National League this season. - sponsored by Paul Cook
The constant love-ins here for him are weird. I don’t mind him, but let’s be honest it was all pretty amateurish, demolition man, pub mates as coaches - and it showed on the field. Sure he attracted some good players but so has McKenna. Really couldn’t care less how Chesterfield get on - only one club matters to me. | | | |
| Top post Henners (n/t) on 09:59 - Sep 29 with 1145 views | Dyland |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 12:57 - Sep 28 by ArnoldMoorhen |
He is a people person, an energiser, and an enthuser.
He moved to the biggest job of his life, uprooted from the North West, and his Dad died.
Given all that, and the difficulties he inherited at Ipswich with morale being at rock-bottom, it isn't surprising that when results didn't go well at the beginning he didn't have anything left in the tank to pull it around.
He isn't as meticulous, detailed and thorough as Kieran. He doesn’t appear to have as in depth an understanding of the opposition. He got good results from inspiring players lower down the pyramid. When things were tough for him he didn't have the same ability to inspire players higher up the pyramid, some of whom had been pretty much abused by the previous manager and so were wary of big promises.
He simply isn't a patch on McKenna. But he is a genuinely likeable guy who got his big break at the wrong time for both him and Ipswich. I am pleased that he has got his career back on track. |
| |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 10:05 - Sep 29 with 1139 views | blueasfook |
Ohhh they are sweet. I can see me rocking along Benidorm sea front in them yeah. |  |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 10:19 - Sep 29 with 1124 views | davblue |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 10:05 - Sep 29 by blueasfook |
Ohhh they are sweet. I can see me rocking along Benidorm sea front in them yeah. |
i have a spare pair in Black which i will give to you in exchange for you paying for a trip for us to Benidorm? Would look great down the sea front beer in hand with those on our feet. |  | | |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 10:28 - Sep 29 with 1108 views | JackNorthStand |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 12:31 - Sep 28 by Steve_M |
Did badly when he came in, blamed the players. Then had the biggest budget relative to the club's position of any manager before McKenna, signed loads of players, brought in some mates to do some coaching, did badly and started blaming the players again before being sacked.
It's quite remarkable how much of a pass he gets from fans. |
In fairness when he first came in he was 100% correct to blame the players who until
his arrival had been getting a free pass. The standards that were accepted by that group of players were very low. | | | |
| Agreed on 10:29 - Sep 29 with 1105 views | Dyland |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 12:45 - Sep 28 by Darth_Koont |
That’s one reading. But an unfair one IMO as it doesn’t address where we were when he took over from Lambert and then how easy it is to get a completely brand-new team playing.
I’m certainly glad we have McKenna but a lot of the expectations on Cook when he took over during the lowest point of our modern history always seemed ridiculously short-sighted and unreasonable.
But I’m glad McKenna didn’t have to deal with all that. He may well have done a lot better but it could also have stymied his career here if he didn’t hit the ground running. Especially with a style that demands working with the players to develop their roles and understanding of situations. |
The stars aligned for McKenna (and Ashton) with regard timing.
Mitigating circumstances for all the Evans managers imo, except Keane, and possibly Jewell but the football and culture was so gobsmackingly comedic and shambolic I find it hard to be annoyed rather than amused.
Magic I guess could have done better but... he was a rookie and... well, it's Magic so whatever. He was treated appallingly and that's when the Curse/banter era really set in (correlation not causation... I'm not suggesting Magic put an actual Oirish curse on da Towen). | |
| |
| Agreed on 10:59 - Sep 29 with 1067 views | pennblue |
| Agreed on 10:29 - Sep 29 by Dyland |
The stars aligned for McKenna (and Ashton) with regard timing.
Mitigating circumstances for all the Evans managers imo, except Keane, and possibly Jewell but the football and culture was so gobsmackingly comedic and shambolic I find it hard to be annoyed rather than amused.
Magic I guess could have done better but... he was a rookie and... well, it's Magic so whatever. He was treated appallingly and that's when the Curse/banter era really set in (correlation not causation... I'm not suggesting Magic put an actual Oirish curse on da Towen). |
> The stars aligned for McKenna (and Ashton) with regard timing.
There is a skill in knowing when to jump and move positions, I hope McKenna will be with us some time as he will be given the opportunity to gain experience. If he went for a Premier League job and failed to make an impact (and lets face it, there are not many jobs where you can be successful in the Premier League), then his reputation and stock could quickly be diminished. | |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 11:09 - Sep 29 with 1052 views | Kievthegreat |
He put together the core of a team that could get promoted out of league 1. Unfortunately, it wasn't a team HE could get promoted out of League 1. Despite him not being good enough in the end, I have nowhere near the animosity towards him that I do of the other Pauls who all left the club weaker than when they came in. |  | | |
| Agreed on 11:10 - Sep 29 with 1053 views | Dyland |
| Agreed on 10:59 - Sep 29 by pennblue |
> The stars aligned for McKenna (and Ashton) with regard timing.
There is a skill in knowing when to jump and move positions, I hope McKenna will be with us some time as he will be given the opportunity to gain experience. If he went for a Premier League job and failed to make an impact (and lets face it, there are not many jobs where you can be successful in the Premier League), then his reputation and stock could quickly be diminished. |
Aye, agree with that, which is possibly a bit of bias and wishful thinking going on as well :)
Re Cook and the demolition stuff... I just think it laid an easier platform for McKenna, when he came in. No doubt Cook could have behaved better towards certain players but there are mitigating circumstances, and from a purely ITFC success perspective it's hard to argue we aren't in a good place right now, regardless of what's happened to the likes of Chambers, Skuse, etc. It's all really nuanced innit, and it's upheaval for better and for worse, depending on where you stand. | |
| |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 13:51 - Sep 29 with 978 views | Vegtablue |
| Paul Cook at Chesterfield on 15:17 - Sep 28 by jayessess |
Penney, Coulson, Harper, Carroll, Fraser, Pigott, Barry in the debit column. Bonne, Edmundson, Edwards, Evans in the mixed column. Burgess, Hladky, Chaplin in the "didn't show it until McKenna" column.
Even Hurst's transfer record looks alright if you just discount all the misses and credit him with everything good that Donacien and Jackson ever did. [Post edited 28 Sep 2023 15:17]
|
Sorry jayessess I missed this post the other day. Does Hurst's transfer record look alright when viewed in its totality? You are less picky than me. When assessing transfer windows it's important to factor in fees, wages, contract length, transfers in both direction, intended role in the side and subsequent value. Judging via a good signing / bad signing tally chart is too simplistic.
We cleared a load of wages from the books at the start of that summer. The only regrettable loss was Downes but the player wanted to move up; otherwise faultless on the departures. Your mixed column is harsh IMO. Bonne wasn't the answer but 12 goals and 4 assists for a loan player is a positive contribution. Evans was arguably our best player last season prior to injury and was vital to setting the start we had. It wasn't a coincidence that our tougher period occurred in the time between his injury and Luongo's arrival. Edwards joined on a free transfer and deserves credit for his role as an impact player last season. He's now on loan because he wanted more game-time, but that shouldn't lead us to cheapen his contribution. Edmundson is fair but I haven't written him off yet; it was good to see him have a largely excellent performance against Wolves and £1m(?) may still prove a fine investment.
In the debit column you've included Penney, a free on a 2-year contract, Coulson, a short-term loan, Carroll, a free on a 1-year contract, and Barry, a short-term loan. One or two will have been squad padding after so many exits, one or two speculative and none serious financial commitments. Penney was obviously the biggest misfire of those with the extra year. Harper was a waste of £500K and wages. Piggott was waste of wages and hard to shift on account of them. Fraser didn't fit in and we sold him to Charlton for an undisclosed fee the following year. No doubt we lost a few hundred £K there but he remained a sought-after player.
My positive column for that summer window would be Morsy, Chaplin, Burgess, Walton, Burns, Evans, Hladky, Aluko, Edwards and Celina. Edmundson looked positive before the injuries and he is positive if we believe him to be a capable Championship defender. I'm probably being unfair to Bonne, given he only cost loan wages. The increase in transfer value of a few of these players covers the debit column multiple times over, before we even begin to consider their importance to where we are today. Transfer windows are investments and you hope for net positive outcomes; not everything tends upwards. Only the most simplistic analysis would be able to present Hurst's or some other windows in a similar light.
And two-to-four of those big hitters came in large part for the gaffer. Thankfully he combined an excellent window with being really bad for us, such that we didn't miss out on his replacement. Lastly, McKenna is a superstar but he isn't a miracle worker, as we've seen with players that haven't cut the grade over his tenure. The players who "didn't show it until McKenna" are clearly the right players in hindsight, and without the benefit of this you cannot fully judge a player or window (as much as Frimmers has tried - sorry Frimmers). Removing hindsight, Chaplin, Morsy, Burns, Evans, Walton and others all felt like major coups before they kicked a ball. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
