| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings 11:44 - Jul 27 with 6220 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
would the same be for fish... and indeed insects (which are eaten in a number of cultures)?
Not trying to start another argument, I think it's an interesting debate. I would accept that I don't need to eat meat - I could survive without it - and therefore it's probably morally wrong (which doesn't necessarily equate to cruel, BTW).
A diet based on plenty of fish is proven to be very good for you, so that's an added dimension to the debate. Science/health professionals tell us we should eat at least two portions of fish a week - yet they're sentient beings. So is it less morally wrong because they're good for humans?
And then how far down do you go and what is the deciding factor? Size of brain/intelligence? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 11:48 - Jul 27 with 4937 views | Keno |
Who knows, maybe Carrots have feeling too? |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 11:56 - Jul 27 with 4906 views | lowhouseblue |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 11:48 - Jul 27 by Keno |
Who knows, maybe Carrots have feeling too? |
oh no, please don't cancel bugs bunny [Post edited 27 Jul 2024 11:59]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:26 - Jul 27 with 4810 views | redrickstuhaart |
You get the intriguing point of questioning whether you should therefore kill or limit or starve insects, in order to protect your crops.
The answer, of course, is that its a necessity to some extent.
So you are making a decsion that insects are a lweor order of life and less important than us. And are therefore individually expendable to ensure we can eat.
Which in principle, is not qualitiatively different to eating meat. |  | | |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:32 - Jul 27 with 4758 views | Europablue |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:26 - Jul 27 by redrickstuhaart |
You get the intriguing point of questioning whether you should therefore kill or limit or starve insects, in order to protect your crops.
The answer, of course, is that its a necessity to some extent.
So you are making a decsion that insects are a lweor order of life and less important than us. And are therefore individually expendable to ensure we can eat.
Which in principle, is not qualitiatively different to eating meat. |
Not to even mention the damage to habitats and all of the animals that are killed by farming equipment or even cars on the roads near farmland.
If we go down the rabbit hole too far we should all just stop having children and commit mass suicide.
If you believe in the right for humans to live, then it is moral to eat meat. Our only responsibility is to do so as respectfully as we can causing as little harm as possible. | | | |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:41 - Jul 27 with 4722 views | Buhrer |
Wouldnt it have been easier to reply to my post in the other thread x . |  | | |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:42 - Jul 27 with 4717 views | Ryorry |
I don’t see much difference between the suffering of fish dying gasping in the air or with a hook in their mouths, and animals being killed, no.
Those of us who feel sorry for bees/ other insects that have dropped into water, and lift them out, but zap midges and flies without qualm, already have double standards I guess. C’est la vie (or not if you’re a mozzie that’s just drunk from my arm). |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:49 - Jul 27 with 4691 views | Nutkins_Return |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:42 - Jul 27 by Ryorry |
I don’t see much difference between the suffering of fish dying gasping in the air or with a hook in their mouths, and animals being killed, no.
Those of us who feel sorry for bees/ other insects that have dropped into water, and lift them out, but zap midges and flies without qualm, already have double standards I guess. C’est la vie (or not if you’re a mozzie that’s just drunk from my arm). |
Is it double standards though. I find it quite easy to rationalize the killing of mosquitos/flies etc who are quite happy to take my blood, spread disease or contaminate and poison my food etc vs a bee who really only does good.
(Not saying they don't have their place in the eco system but it's fair game with insects that are out to get you)
:) | |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:58 - Jul 27 with 4661 views | Ryorry |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:49 - Jul 27 by Nutkins_Return |
Is it double standards though. I find it quite easy to rationalize the killing of mosquitos/flies etc who are quite happy to take my blood, spread disease or contaminate and poison my food etc vs a bee who really only does good.
(Not saying they don't have their place in the eco system but it's fair game with insects that are out to get you)
:) |
Course it is. We’re ruled by self-interest though, same as all animals - people usually forget we are too, in these kinds of debates.
Anyway, gotta go and mow a meadow, sorry in advance to all insects that don’t make it past the blades :( | |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 13:08 - Jul 27 with 4625 views | eireblue |
“the question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?”
English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) |  | | |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 13:41 - Jul 27 with 4542 views | J2BLUE |
Where do fish get their omegas from?  |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 14:04 - Jul 27 with 4480 views | Nutkins_Return |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:58 - Jul 27 by Ryorry |
Course it is. We’re ruled by self-interest though, same as all animals - people usually forget we are too, in these kinds of debates.
Anyway, gotta go and mow a meadow, sorry in advance to all insects that don’t make it past the blades :( |
Use the non sharp blades just in case! | |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 14:48 - Jul 27 with 4386 views | MattinLondon |
No. |  | | |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 17:12 - Jul 27 with 4247 views | factual_blue |
'If...' |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 18:09 - Jul 27 with 4169 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:41 - Jul 27 by Buhrer |
Wouldnt it have been easier to reply to my post in the other thread x . |
I haven't seen a post from you wondering about fish and insects. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 18:12 - Jul 27 with 4163 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Been out most of the day and I'm astonished to come back and find this question has 4 downarrows.
One of them's obviously the keyboard warrior, but the others baffle me. I'd love to know what I've said wrong. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 18:22 - Jul 27 with 4141 views | mutters |
Its a very interesting question as I have often wondered why people draw the line at not eating meat but will happily chomp on fish. I don't see the difference.
There is also a big debate around the impact of turning land into growing fields for crops (especially Soy) as often the land is stripped of its natural creatures (insects/worms etc) to ensure as abundant crops as possible. You may not be eating flesh, however, there is still a lot of damage done to various critters, they are just less visible. Cows/Sheep/Pigs etc live in happy harmony with these critters.
I also don't understand fishing as a hobby. People actively go out, and catch fish, often by shoving a sharp instrument through their body and then just letting them go. Surely it would be best if you just let them be in the first place? Its a bit like animal hunting to be, but again there is a line which some people happily step over for the name of a hobby. |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 22:36 - Jul 28 with 3889 views | eireblue |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 18:22 - Jul 27 by mutters |
Its a very interesting question as I have often wondered why people draw the line at not eating meat but will happily chomp on fish. I don't see the difference.
There is also a big debate around the impact of turning land into growing fields for crops (especially Soy) as often the land is stripped of its natural creatures (insects/worms etc) to ensure as abundant crops as possible. You may not be eating flesh, however, there is still a lot of damage done to various critters, they are just less visible. Cows/Sheep/Pigs etc live in happy harmony with these critters.
I also don't understand fishing as a hobby. People actively go out, and catch fish, often by shoving a sharp instrument through their body and then just letting them go. Surely it would be best if you just let them be in the first place? Its a bit like animal hunting to be, but again there is a line which some people happily step over for the name of a hobby. |
“Only six per cent of soy produced globally is consumed by humans as whole beans in foods like tofu, soy milk, and edamame. Another 13 per cent of global production goes to humans as soy oil, while 77 per cent of all soy produced is for animals.”
Most of the land being destroyed for soy, is for cows/sheep/pigs. | | | |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 22:49 - Jul 28 with 3859 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 11:48 - Jul 27 by Keno |
Who knows, maybe Carrots have feeling too? |
They must have. I’d be right pissed off if I was pulled out of bed by my hair. |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 23:43 - Jul 28 with 3822 views | baxterbasics |
It's not morally wrong.
We are top of the food chain, may as well enjoy it. No need to hesitate hesitate any more than the crocodile does before it grabs a bison at the waters edge. |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 00:00 - Jul 29 with 3813 views | Mercian |
We are naturally true omnivores and before the invention of supplements which allowed vegetarians to live healthy lives humans needed both meat and vegetables to do so. Killer Whales kill and eat other intelligent whales as do people in Norway and Japan. Our ancestors were still prey animals themselves up to about a million years ago and they were more sentient than anything we eat with the possible exception of some whale species. It is our nature and nature has no morals so therefore it is neither morally right or wrong. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 0:05]
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 01:12 - Jul 29 with 3776 views | mutters |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 22:36 - Jul 28 by eireblue |
“Only six per cent of soy produced globally is consumed by humans as whole beans in foods like tofu, soy milk, and edamame. Another 13 per cent of global production goes to humans as soy oil, while 77 per cent of all soy produced is for animals.”
Most of the land being destroyed for soy, is for cows/sheep/pigs. |
Absolutely fascinating, I never realised/appreciated how much soy is grow just to feed animals. Good bit of info.
If we didn't have such a desire for such intensive farming, then we could just let the animals graze on the pasture and then the impact on the ground/ecosystem would be much less invasive. More bugs, more worms, healthy soil. | |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 04:12 - Jul 29 with 3732 views | Thundermuffin86 |
If sentience is the key factor, it's tough to justify eating fish or insects over other animals. | | | |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 06:58 - Jul 29 with 3661 views | You_Bloo_Right |
I would have thought the moral issue is not the food we eat but the food we waste. |  |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 07:46 - Jul 29 with 3623 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 12:26 - Jul 27 by redrickstuhaart |
You get the intriguing point of questioning whether you should therefore kill or limit or starve insects, in order to protect your crops.
The answer, of course, is that its a necessity to some extent.
So you are making a decsion that insects are a lweor order of life and less important than us. And are therefore individually expendable to ensure we can eat.
Which in principle, is not qualitiatively different to eating meat. |
Which ironically could mean we’re damaging the environment more and threatening food security, as we kill off wild populations of insects that are critical to crops in many parts of the world. Moral maze innit. | |
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| If it's morally wrong to eat meat because they're sentient beings on 07:51 - Jul 29 with 3615 views | chicoazul |
Explain for us all the differences between an argument and a debate as you understand them. |  |
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