| Wolf vs O’Shea 12:37 - Sep 22 with 5956 views | sjg |
Without wanting to sling mud like the other thread on this topic, I was wondering what people’s thoughts on this are?
I thought Wolf was dropped after what was maybe his best game ever, considering the quality of the opposition, and having put in good performances against 2 of the best 3 teams in the division. I understand we spent a lot of money on O’Shea, but we did the same on Jack Clarke who has not yet started a game so sort of felt he should have been given the chance to play for the place that he has earned and made his own over the last few seasons, as opposed to being dropped on the basis that O’Shea is ‘objectively’ the better player.
I know it’s early days with O’Shea, and maybe he is unfortunate because Greaves next to him has taken to his role like a duck to water, but I thought he was poor defensively and on the ball yesterday, and did okay defensively but poor on the ball against Brighton.
Having said that, I don’t think we can drop O’Shea now without his confidence being shot to bits and feeling a lot of pressure whenever he comes back into the team so I guess it’s sort of a non-starter. Hopefully it becomes clear what the thinking was soon when O’Shea gets to know the system and puts in some stellar performances, but for me it’s hard to feel like Woolfenden wasn’t hard done by based on what we have seen so far. |  | | |  |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:43 - Sep 22 with 4833 views | FrimleyBlue |
As said
Greaves signed in July had pre season
Greaves also made more mistakes yesterday than o shea but strangley thats ignored.
Oshea needed games. There's no friendlies to get minutes.
Oshea is a different ball player to wolfy so people need to stop expecting him to be that small pass player like Wolfenden. He will slow play down like wolfy and his job Is to go longer to get us up the pitch mainly diags to our forward players.
People are happy for the team to have time getting going but not a cb which I find odd personally. |  |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:43 - Sep 22 with 4823 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You could make the same case against half the job lot of mercenaries. One of the reasons Town look toothless in attack is that the establish players have been discarded and demoralised. The theory is no doubt that given time they’ll adjust to their new surroundings - quietly forgetting they are championship players, relegation specialists - or wandering rentals. | |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:45 - Sep 22 with 4839 views | LittleBoyBlue1 |
You are spot on | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:48 - Sep 22 with 4812 views | pointofblue |
Everyone knows my opinion on the subject so I won't repeat that as nauseum.
If we believe McKenna thought Woolfenden had a great start to season, as he himself claimed, then the logical reason why O'Shea came in was the one given by McKenna himself. Centre back is a key role to the side, and one which takes time to adjust to. He could go two ways once O'Shea signed - either give Woolfenden time in the line up and, if he started to struggle, make the switch, or make the change anyway, despite Woolfenden's form. He decided on the latter.
Firstly, O'Shea should be an upgrade on Woolfenden considering his greater pace and experience. There's not much the latter can do about either. Secondly, as mentioned above, with centre back being such a key role then option one - waiting for Woolfenden to either lose form or pick up an injury/red card - would be a risk. O'Shea hasn't looked a step up against either Brighton or Southampton, but he has come into the team cold, plus he won't have the chance to play any further cup games and will be away from the squad during international breaks. Giving him time on the pitch is logical, to try and bed in. The longer it is left the less time he has to attune to the style of play and expectations placed on him. As it is, if he picks up an injury or suspension, then we have a replacement in line who knows this like the back of his hand. The switch will be as seamless as possible, and it will be the same at LCB from Greaves to Burgess.
So from that point of view, I get it. That doesn't mean I don't feel sympathy with Woolfenden, or that he shouldn't feel hard done by. But I guess McKenna has had to handle a lot of our promotion heroes very carefully since May as they've gone from key components to spare parts. It just stands out with Woolfenden because he started the season very well - I'm not sure if any of other players (Walton aside if being really generous) can claim that. | |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:48 - Sep 22 with 4813 views | NthQldITFC |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:43 - Sep 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
You could make the same case against half the job lot of mercenaries. One of the reasons Town look toothless in attack is that the establish players have been discarded and demoralised. The theory is no doubt that given time they’ll adjust to their new surroundings - quietly forgetting they are championship players, relegation specialists - or wandering rentals. |
I'm writing an auto-log in script as a browser extension so whenever I visit TWTD I don't have the pleasure of seeing your poisonous yellow bile before I log on. |  |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:52 - Sep 22 with 4765 views | sjg |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:43 - Sep 22 by FrimleyBlue |
As said
Greaves signed in July had pre season
Greaves also made more mistakes yesterday than o shea but strangley thats ignored.
Oshea needed games. There's no friendlies to get minutes.
Oshea is a different ball player to wolfy so people need to stop expecting him to be that small pass player like Wolfenden. He will slow play down like wolfy and his job Is to go longer to get us up the pitch mainly diags to our forward players.
People are happy for the team to have time getting going but not a cb which I find odd personally. |
I agree Greaves didn’t have a great game yesterday but to say he made more mistakes than O’Shea I don’t think is accurate. Every time Archer managed to split the 2 that surely goes down as a mistake for both? And there was a couple of times they managed to play the ball wide left to a man in acres, whether that was O’Shea or Axel’s fault I couldn’t tell.
I also think Greaves, O’Shea and Axel can all do better for the goal | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:56 - Sep 22 with 4676 views | FromReuserWithLove |
I think we've look solid defensively considering the step up and having pretty much a whole new defence. O'Shea looks strong and commanding to me and is OBVIOUSLY better footballer on the whole than Woolfy. I know Woolfy is "one of our own" and has been on the journey with us but O'Shea is a necessary upgrade and will only get better after his two performances for the club. Woolfy still has a huge part to play and will get games. |  | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:05 - Sep 22 with 4593 views | Stewart27 |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:43 - Sep 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
You could make the same case against half the job lot of mercenaries. One of the reasons Town look toothless in attack is that the establish players have been discarded and demoralised. The theory is no doubt that given time they’ll adjust to their new surroundings - quietly forgetting they are championship players, relegation specialists - or wandering rentals. |
F@ck off you scum c unit
Imagine being so pathetic that you need to constantly post on our forum.
Genuinely can’t believe you haven’t been banned. | | | |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:06 - Sep 22 with 4595 views | sjg |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:56 - Sep 22 by FromReuserWithLove |
I think we've look solid defensively considering the step up and having pretty much a whole new defence. O'Shea looks strong and commanding to me and is OBVIOUSLY better footballer on the whole than Woolfy. I know Woolfy is "one of our own" and has been on the journey with us but O'Shea is a necessary upgrade and will only get better after his two performances for the club. Woolfy still has a huge part to play and will get games. |
Genuine question, not a dig, because I have seen this thrown around in a couple of ways (‘objectively a better player’, ‘obviously better) - what part of O’Shea’s game is that much better than Woolfy’s? | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:11 - Sep 22 with 4543 views | BLUEBEAT |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 12:56 - Sep 22 by FromReuserWithLove |
I think we've look solid defensively considering the step up and having pretty much a whole new defence. O'Shea looks strong and commanding to me and is OBVIOUSLY better footballer on the whole than Woolfy. I know Woolfy is "one of our own" and has been on the journey with us but O'Shea is a necessary upgrade and will only get better after his two performances for the club. Woolfy still has a huge part to play and will get games. |
He is noticeably faster too.
Am sure he will improve each game. |  |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:14 - Sep 22 with 4504 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:06 - Sep 22 by sjg |
Genuine question, not a dig, because I have seen this thrown around in a couple of ways (‘objectively a better player’, ‘obviously better) - what part of O’Shea’s game is that much better than Woolfy’s? |
Just basing it on his experience to date, the fact Kompany shelled out on him and now KM has shelled out 10/15m on him to replace Woolfenden. Woolfenden may well prove to be better than but that's now up to him.
On first viewings, O'Shea seems much quicker, more aggressive and more determined to engage which are the area I personally feel Woolfy needs improvement.
Woolfy will certainly push O'Shea but right now O'Shea is seen as an improvement. 100% | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:24 - Sep 22 with 4458 views | pointofblue |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:14 - Sep 22 by FromReuserWithLove |
Just basing it on his experience to date, the fact Kompany shelled out on him and now KM has shelled out 10/15m on him to replace Woolfenden. Woolfenden may well prove to be better than but that's now up to him.
On first viewings, O'Shea seems much quicker, more aggressive and more determined to engage which are the area I personally feel Woolfy needs improvement.
Woolfy will certainly push O'Shea but right now O'Shea is seen as an improvement. 100% |
I appreciate that's how O'Shea has performed elsewhere, but I haven't seen that from him here. But I accept it is early days for him. | |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:25 - Sep 22 with 4442 views | Sarge |
Think it’s harsh on Woolfenden, I think he’s plenty good enough for this level and didn’t demonstrate otherwise in the games he’s played so far. Personally I think we’ve replaced too many players at once, and a few that didn’t really need replacing. I’d put him back in against Villa. | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:30 - Sep 22 with 4381 views | BLUEBEAT |
Also, let’s not forget Woolfenden did something a bit naughty which hasn’t helped his cause. But we’re not allowed to talk about that based on several topics yesterday. | |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:45 - Sep 22 with 4215 views | BloomBlue |
KM has to play O'Shea to get him up to speed on how we play, that was always going to be the problem bringing a CH in that late in the window.
Based on his 2 performance todate he is a downgrade on Wolf.
But some of that is down to the fact he's 'learning the team'. What I mean by that is when he moves to the ball versus when Greaves or Axel moves to the ball, but that understanding takes time.
But if you look at the ease with which Archer drifted past him yesterday it was shocking. It demonstrated a lack of pace and physicality by O'Shea. He may have pace on paper but is he slow in thought, the best CHs are fast in thought in reading the game. Anybody who doesn't think he was too slow in both situations is living a lie.
But that is the problem at the moment fans are emotive about these two. If that had been Wolf doing that yesterday the Wolf haters would be highlighting that as Wolf being slow.
Others who have for a couple of seasons been saying Wolf should be dropped because he makes mistakes are now saying you can not drop O'Shea for a mistake because all players make mistakes. There is a lot of hypocrisy at the moment around these two
But I still think O'Shea learning how we operate as a team is leading to some of his slow thinking.
Personally, I think KM will play him for the next 2 games, and if he's not improving he'll bring Wolf back after the international break. |  | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 14:21 - Sep 22 with 4006 views | Nutkins_Return |
O'Shea needs 10+ games to build relationships I .the team before any judgement. Greaves is class but had a pre season to build those relationships and I top class by the looks.
I thought even where their striker got slipped in a couple of times oshea has real recovery pace and you could argue the pressure he put on the striker meant no easy goal. Strikers can't run away from O'Shea which is important at this level. Once he is beaded in I'm confident he'll be good for us.
He is in a difficult position because whoever plays has their work cut out at this level. | |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 14:22 - Sep 22 with 4005 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:05 - Sep 22 by Stewart27 |
F@ck off you scum c unit
Imagine being so pathetic that you need to constantly post on our forum.
Genuinely can’t believe you haven’t been banned. |
"Genuinely can’t believe you haven’t been banned."
It is baffling... They have -1167 votes and still won't flush. Wonder how many people have this troll on ignore too. |  |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 14:49 - Sep 22 with 3812 views | badadski |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 14:22 - Sep 22 by Kropotkin123 |
"Genuinely can’t believe you haven’t been banned."
It is baffling... They have -1167 votes and still won't flush. Wonder how many people have this troll on ignore too. |
Simple answer is McKenna wants us to play a high line to win possession in opposition half and it leaves us super exposed to balls over the top like what
Liverpool done to us and also to Bournemouth yesterday which is far easier with Woolfenden in the back line who isn’t as quick. O’Shea was purchased due to his speed- speed you can’t coach - you either have it or you don’t / the rest can be coached or with experience you can become better at doing such as being smashed off the ball and lettering the attacker get in front of you like O’Shea did twice yesterday - with some one his pace and size it shouldn’t have happened so hopefully McKenna and being on a steady starting line up will bring all the pieces into place | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:06 - Sep 22 with 3663 views | textbackup |
FWIW I think the pace of O’Shea, and that he’s played/has the relationship with Muric, is why we are seeing him in place of Wolf.
Neither, IMO, have done anything wrong, and look solid enough |  |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:06 - Sep 22 with 3663 views | E_I_E_I_E_I_O |
We have conceded 1 goal in 2 away Prem games since so I'm happy to back the manager. Unfortunately no room for sentiment. | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:08 - Sep 22 with 3644 views | franz_tyson |
Got nothing against Wolf, but the club and its future is far, far bigger than putting an academy local boy in the team. If you're going to moan - take it out on Kieran McKenna at the next home game. Its his decision. O'Shea hasn't cost us any points and he's got to be given a chance.
If after 5-10 games he's struggling and costing us - then it could be that Kieran has to make a choice between him and Wolfy. But he needs a run of games
Don't think this is Wolfy getting picked on. Look at other players who've got us promoted twice and they're either can't make the squad or scratching around for a few minutes at the end of a game.
Wolfys got to keep training hard and keep his head up and wait for his chance. Like everyone else. He can't be given special treatment because he's a local lad. | | | |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:13 - Sep 22 with 3609 views | pointofblue |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:08 - Sep 22 by franz_tyson |
Got nothing against Wolf, but the club and its future is far, far bigger than putting an academy local boy in the team. If you're going to moan - take it out on Kieran McKenna at the next home game. Its his decision. O'Shea hasn't cost us any points and he's got to be given a chance.
If after 5-10 games he's struggling and costing us - then it could be that Kieran has to make a choice between him and Wolfy. But he needs a run of games
Don't think this is Wolfy getting picked on. Look at other players who've got us promoted twice and they're either can't make the squad or scratching around for a few minutes at the end of a game.
Wolfys got to keep training hard and keep his head up and wait for his chance. Like everyone else. He can't be given special treatment because he's a local lad. |
Whilst I admit having someone in the line up because he is an academy player and the one remnant left from the Evans era is alluring, my argument is he should be there on merit. He played very well in the opening three games, and didn't do anything on the pitch to merit being dropped.
That's different from, say, Broadhead or Hirst, who had injuries which meant they couldn't start the season, or Chaplin, whose form was tailing off during the back end of last year. Woolfenden put in probably his best ever performance against Fulham and didn't do much wrong... indeed, did not look worse than O'Shea has against weaker opposition... versus Liverpool or Manchester City. | |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:21 - Sep 22 with 3544 views | BlueBadger |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 13:30 - Sep 22 by BLUEBEAT |
Also, let’s not forget Woolfenden did something a bit naughty which hasn’t helped his cause. But we’re not allowed to talk about that based on several topics yesterday. |
Ah now, the whole [readacted] that he did with [redacted] and [redaced] whilst [redacted] and [redacted] in the [redacted] is common knowledge now. |  |
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| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:25 - Sep 22 with 3497 views | franz_tyson |
| Wolf vs O’Shea on 15:13 - Sep 22 by pointofblue |
Whilst I admit having someone in the line up because he is an academy player and the one remnant left from the Evans era is alluring, my argument is he should be there on merit. He played very well in the opening three games, and didn't do anything on the pitch to merit being dropped.
That's different from, say, Broadhead or Hirst, who had injuries which meant they couldn't start the season, or Chaplin, whose form was tailing off during the back end of last year. Woolfenden put in probably his best ever performance against Fulham and didn't do much wrong... indeed, did not look worse than O'Shea has against weaker opposition... versus Liverpool or Manchester City. |
If he's not looking worse than O'Shea then that means they're of comparative standard in your opinion. In which case, why is there so much furore about Oshea taking the shirt? Can't say I've seen any real dip or any increase in quality from O'Shea coming in, so, for me, I'm backing Kierans judgement for the moment. Give it time and we can make a proper judgement. It's possible O'Shea might improve after 2 games or is that the cut off point when decisions are made? | | | |
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