| Chris Kaba verdict 19:12 - Oct 21 with 28069 views | Zx1988 |
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c17lk592ygdo
Not sure what I make of this.
If, as the article perhaps suggests, the verdict hinged upon the testimony of Blake's fellow firearms officers, I feel a distinct sense of 'they would say that, wouldn't they'.
Is there any other scenario where, essentially, the corroborating testimony of one's chums would be enough to secure a not guilty verdict? |  |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 19:14 - Oct 24 with 2040 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 18:05 - Oct 24 by tcblue |
How have we got TWO people on here who don't know an Alan Partridge quote off by heart?! |
Because we have lives? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 19:34 - Oct 24 with 2016 views | tcblue |
I don't know you very well but I do question this  | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 20:09 - Oct 24 with 1976 views | ReusersTown |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:48 - Oct 24 by leitrimblue |
'Digging yerself in here' Yer, if by suggesting that I would rather see unarmed people arrested then shot dead then I am indeed digging myself in.
Are you on the other hand suggesting that anyone 'acting erratically and very dangerously when asked to stop by law enforcement' should be shot an killed? |
If they are a serious threat to other innocent life then yes. Surely that is the only sane logical stance. You keep trying to hide behind the shield of 'unarmed' . He was trying to smash his way through a barricade of cars with a car known by the police to be involved in gun crime. How do you seem to be so immune to context. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 20:22 - Oct 24 with 1966 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 18:13 - Oct 22 by DJR |
That would not be a factor that the CPS could or would take into account in making its decision.
Maybe the use of bodycam etc makes it more likely that such cases could reach court these days (unlike the days of Blair Peach and John Charles de Menezes).
As it is, and based on Wikipedia, of 41 cases where the police killed someone since 2010 only two resulted in a charge (manslaughter), and only the police officer involved in the Dalian Atkinson case was found guilty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_th [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 18:24]
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Random fact, I went to school with number 16 in the 2010 list, he wasn't a mate but shared a few cigarettes together at break times. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 03:37 - Oct 25 with 1830 views | Benters |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:30 - Oct 24 by Blueschev |
Catch the train to London, stopping at rejection, disappointment, backstabbing central and shattered dreams parkway. |
Classic AP šš |  |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 03:41 - Oct 25 with 1813 views | Benters |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 20:09 - Oct 24 by ReusersTown |
If they are a serious threat to other innocent life then yes. Surely that is the only sane logical stance. You keep trying to hide behind the shield of 'unarmed' . He was trying to smash his way through a barricade of cars with a car known by the police to be involved in gun crime. How do you seem to be so immune to context. |
A massive Audi weighing in close on Two Tons,used earlier in another crime do you mean ? | |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 07:25 - Oct 25 with 1658 views | Benters |
I was the same when I went clubbing ā¦.erm no I wasnāt.
Considering he never worked he had a very expensive car. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 7:28]
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 08:12 - Oct 25 with 1606 views | Churchman |
Thatās shocking.
But is it real or fake coverage put out by the police to defend the actions of a criminal, obviously guilty, no need for a trial policeman?
On a serious note, if the footage is real and reporting true, the world is a better place without that bit of dirt. However, the case was about the actions of the officer. He was on trial for his actions. In a sense what is shown here is irrelevant beyond the police knowing the car was used in a shooting and Kaba refused to do as ordered.
Edit: and the officer was found by an independent Jury innocent. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 8:38]
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 08:45 - Oct 25 with 1541 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 08:12 - Oct 25 by Churchman |
Thatās shocking.
But is it real or fake coverage put out by the police to defend the actions of a criminal, obviously guilty, no need for a trial policeman?
On a serious note, if the footage is real and reporting true, the world is a better place without that bit of dirt. However, the case was about the actions of the officer. He was on trial for his actions. In a sense what is shown here is irrelevant beyond the police knowing the car was used in a shooting and Kaba refused to do as ordered.
Edit: and the officer was found by an independent Jury innocent. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 8:38]
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I'm not sure it is totally irrelevant when they family are making him out to be this innocent unarmed young black man being yet another victim of police violence. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 08:55 - Oct 25 with 1504 views | Churchman |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 08:45 - Oct 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not sure it is totally irrelevant when they family are making him out to be this innocent unarmed young black man being yet another victim of police violence. |
Indeed. But I think in looking objectively it sometimes helps to separate these things out. Helps my little brain understand better š | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 09:33 - Oct 25 with 1460 views | MattinLondon |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 08:45 - Oct 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm not sure it is totally irrelevant when they family are making him out to be this innocent unarmed young black man being yet another victim of police violence. |
Initially, I did find his family statements to be odd but then thinking about it maybe itās not that strange.
There are plenty of very bad violent people out there who, on the surface, are decent and loving family men. Maybe his family only saw one side to his character whilst others saw his violent side. I have no idea whether his family are like him - maybe they are in denial and feel guilt for not intervening stronger and earlier to try and stop his involvement in gangs etc. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 09:56 - Oct 25 with 1414 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 09:33 - Oct 25 by MattinLondon |
Initially, I did find his family statements to be odd but then thinking about it maybe itās not that strange.
There are plenty of very bad violent people out there who, on the surface, are decent and loving family men. Maybe his family only saw one side to his character whilst others saw his violent side. I have no idea whether his family are like him - maybe they are in denial and feel guilt for not intervening stronger and earlier to try and stop his involvement in gangs etc. |
They actively made an injunction to stop details about what he was really like coming out, which the judge overturned after the trial, so they knew exactly what he was like. They're grieving, and in these situations so often the grieving family wants to lash out and blame others, but in reality the blame lies with Kaba himself (which I'm sure deep down they know).
Unfortunately their denial and cover-up could've incited riots and caused more people harm in the fallout if the judge hadn't lifted the injunction. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 10:16 - Oct 25 with 1398 views | Reus30 |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 09:33 - Oct 25 by MattinLondon |
Initially, I did find his family statements to be odd but then thinking about it maybe itās not that strange.
There are plenty of very bad violent people out there who, on the surface, are decent and loving family men. Maybe his family only saw one side to his character whilst others saw his violent side. I have no idea whether his family are like him - maybe they are in denial and feel guilt for not intervening stronger and earlier to try and stop his involvement in gangs etc. |
You're right, when I have a hard day blasting fools, I just come home and get a big hug off my mum and enjoy a nice home cooked meal in front of family fortunes and we all say a pray before bed.
No, it's covering your butt. Mummy bear will have a load of cash in her pocket from his crimes and probably a few crooks in their ear about spouting rubbish to garner sympathy.
It's all BS.
Let's face it, the dad effed off early doors and she was probably letting her son do whatever he wanted to ensure she has some grub in her tummy and now she is upset that he has died. Happy for him to take the risks previously though.
Idiots. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 10:53 - Oct 25 with 1344 views | Ryorry |
I donāt often disagree with a Guardian article, but to liken this Kaba incident to that of Dalian Atkinson is ridiculous and disgraceful.
All Yvette Cooper has done is change rules so that officers charged remain anonymous unless/until theyāre found guilty. Quite right too.
Not sure what the Guardianās trying to do there. Each case should be judged individually on its own āmeritsā - no oneās said any different. |  |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 11:13 - Oct 25 with 1311 views | DJR |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 10:53 - Oct 25 by Ryorry |
I donāt often disagree with a Guardian article, but to liken this Kaba incident to that of Dalian Atkinson is ridiculous and disgraceful.
All Yvette Cooper has done is change rules so that officers charged remain anonymous unless/until theyāre found guilty. Quite right too.
Not sure what the Guardianās trying to do there. Each case should be judged individually on its own āmeritsā - no oneās said any different. |
The article is looking to the future, and questioning whether all the demands of the NPCC should be accepted. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 11:18]
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 11:18 - Oct 25 with 1287 views | Ryorry |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 11:13 - Oct 25 by DJR |
The article is looking to the future, and questioning whether all the demands of the NPCC should be accepted. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 11:18]
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I thought it was a pointless article tbh. No one that Iāve seen/heard has said any different to the headline. Maybe quiet news day, space to fill. | |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 11:37 - Oct 25 with 1251 views | DJR |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 11:18 - Oct 25 by Ryorry |
I thought it was a pointless article tbh. No one that Iāve seen/heard has said any different to the headline. Maybe quiet news day, space to fill. |
It's certainly not a quiet news day on TWTD will all the posts today!
EDIT: And I am not sure I have heard many voices questioning, say, the NPCC's demands to make it more difficult for inquest juries to reach unlawful killing verdicts. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 11:59]
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 11:53 - Oct 25 with 1210 views | Benters |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 08:12 - Oct 25 by Churchman |
Thatās shocking.
But is it real or fake coverage put out by the police to defend the actions of a criminal, obviously guilty, no need for a trial policeman?
On a serious note, if the footage is real and reporting true, the world is a better place without that bit of dirt. However, the case was about the actions of the officer. He was on trial for his actions. In a sense what is shown here is irrelevant beyond the police knowing the car was used in a shooting and Kaba refused to do as ordered.
Edit: and the officer was found by an independent Jury innocent. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 8:38]
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Just think he would have been alive today if he had stopped the car,got out of the vehicle and stuck his hands up. | |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 12:22 - Oct 25 with 1154 views | lowhouseblue |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 11:53 - Oct 25 by Benters |
Just think he would have been alive today if he had stopped the car,got out of the vehicle and stuck his hands up. |
and if he hadn't attempted to murder someone in a night club the previous evening he wouldn't have been facing lengthy gaol time which is i guess why he used his car as a weapon in an attempt to get away. oh, what an innocent murder attempt can lead to. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 12:24 - Oct 25 with 1132 views | Zapers |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 21:52 - Oct 23 by baxterbasics |
A weasel statement from a weasel Mayor.
What an utter turd. |
This^
Not worth the paper itās written on.
A totally ambiguous statement from a weasel mayor. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 12:32 - Oct 25 with 1105 views | MattinLondon |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 09:56 - Oct 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
They actively made an injunction to stop details about what he was really like coming out, which the judge overturned after the trial, so they knew exactly what he was like. They're grieving, and in these situations so often the grieving family wants to lash out and blame others, but in reality the blame lies with Kaba himself (which I'm sure deep down they know).
Unfortunately their denial and cover-up could've incited riots and caused more people harm in the fallout if the judge hadn't lifted the injunction. |
Didnāt realise that they to get an injunction- and regarding your last paragraph, you are right. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:23 - Oct 25 with 1026 views | Vegtablue |
Would it be unfair to summarise your contribution as twofold on this thread: broadening out the discussion to address wider concerns around police immunity, in part, but also to voice your opinion that the jury's decision was wrong or problematic? You've said you don't believe the vehicle posed a threat as a weapon, from viewing the video evidence available to us, and have also highlighted the CPS' expertise and judgement in authorising the murder charge, that they wouldn't have done so unless they felt there was a good (strong?) prospect of conviction.
I've rewatched the footage and continue to feel the car posed a serious danger, to be honest, accelerating as powerfully as it was, even if at the time there wasn't yet room for it to reach above 12mph (a figure mentioned earlier if memory serves). I suspect a car like that would be able to kill a person from a standing start, if the horsepower were directed into crushing a person between itself and another object. I also worry what the consequence could have been for the public, had Kaba been allowed to continue recklessly extricating himself from the police block. As Ryorry's alluded to already, I doubt he would have been respectful of pavements or zebra crossings during stage two of his desperate getaway. This is all before we consider the prospect that a gun was still in the vehicle and the practicalities of the officer keeping sightlines on an erratically moving target.
More broadly, I think public perceptions and sentencing around vehicles and related offences is overdue a review; used recklessly they're killers, every bit as much as a knife or a gun, and sentencing should reflect this is in my opinion when it comes to death by dangerous driving. I view what Kaba was attempting to do as highly dangerous, whether or not his prospects of breaking the block were realistic (from the video I'd say they were, if left to his own devices).
On your broader point, I agree we mustn't reach a point where police are effectively immune from prosecution, but I also don't believe this case adds anything to the general unease some may have about juries' bias towards police, or bias against black victims. I don't know how many potential miscarriages of justice there have been re police fatalities over the past decade or so - maybe ignorance on my part, but armed police killing people seems quite a rare occurrence. Is the list significantly longer than Menezes, and Atkinson by normal police, both of which were terrible? | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:38 - Oct 25 with 994 views | DJR |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:23 - Oct 25 by Vegtablue |
Would it be unfair to summarise your contribution as twofold on this thread: broadening out the discussion to address wider concerns around police immunity, in part, but also to voice your opinion that the jury's decision was wrong or problematic? You've said you don't believe the vehicle posed a threat as a weapon, from viewing the video evidence available to us, and have also highlighted the CPS' expertise and judgement in authorising the murder charge, that they wouldn't have done so unless they felt there was a good (strong?) prospect of conviction.
I've rewatched the footage and continue to feel the car posed a serious danger, to be honest, accelerating as powerfully as it was, even if at the time there wasn't yet room for it to reach above 12mph (a figure mentioned earlier if memory serves). I suspect a car like that would be able to kill a person from a standing start, if the horsepower were directed into crushing a person between itself and another object. I also worry what the consequence could have been for the public, had Kaba been allowed to continue recklessly extricating himself from the police block. As Ryorry's alluded to already, I doubt he would have been respectful of pavements or zebra crossings during stage two of his desperate getaway. This is all before we consider the prospect that a gun was still in the vehicle and the practicalities of the officer keeping sightlines on an erratically moving target.
More broadly, I think public perceptions and sentencing around vehicles and related offences is overdue a review; used recklessly they're killers, every bit as much as a knife or a gun, and sentencing should reflect this is in my opinion when it comes to death by dangerous driving. I view what Kaba was attempting to do as highly dangerous, whether or not his prospects of breaking the block were realistic (from the video I'd say they were, if left to his own devices).
On your broader point, I agree we mustn't reach a point where police are effectively immune from prosecution, but I also don't believe this case adds anything to the general unease some may have about juries' bias towards police, or bias against black victims. I don't know how many potential miscarriages of justice there have been re police fatalities over the past decade or so - maybe ignorance on my part, but armed police killing people seems quite a rare occurrence. Is the list significantly longer than Menezes, and Atkinson by normal police, both of which were terrible? |
As I've said before, my focus hasn't really be on this case, and I've tried to broaden the issue as suggested in your first proposition but nobody has taken me up.
However, I did make an observation on the video, given that these days such evidence is released after a trial.
But the video will only form part of the evidence and at no point have I said the jury was wrong to acquit.
What I did, say, however, is-
(a) that the CPS would not bring charges without regard to the evidence as they saw it,
(b) that the bringing of charges does not mean that the jury will convict,
(c) it seems to me that there will be a reluctance on the part of a jury to find an officer guilty, and
(d) the judge ruled that his "bad character" was not relevant to the case.
In addition, at no point have I mentioned the colour of a person's skin.
As regards the numbers killed by the police more generally, I pointed out that there were 41 cases since 2010 according to Wikipedia, and I also mentioned Blair Peach and John Charles de Menenez.
At the end of the day, and as a lawyer, I believe in justice but it seems to me that justice has been very difficult for the families of victims to obtain in certain cases. As a result, further tightening of the rules (apart from anonymity) in favour of the police seems to me to be going in the wrong direction. [Post edited 25 Oct 2024 14:44]
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