| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... 09:45 - Dec 3 with 5226 views | Hogger |
Here is what the armband campaign is about, from the Premier League site:
"A key focus of the partnership with Stonewall encourages LGBT+ acceptance among children and young people involved in community and education initiatives such as Premier League Primary Stars and Premier League Kicks, and within Academies. Coaches, teachers and leaders are equipped with bespoke resources and programmes developed by the League and Stonewall which promote positive attitudes towards the LGBT+ community."
I honestly don't understand how so many people on this site find it acceptable that Sam refuses to support this initiative based on his religion. Would you say the same if it was one of those right-wing evangelical Christians doing the same?
By doing so, he is drawing attention to the intolerance of some, not all, Muslims to accepting same-sex relationships. That's not a matter of free speech but intolerant speech and it is not the role of a captain to advocate that in my opinion. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 9:46]
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 10:24 - Dec 3 with 4275 views | lowhouseblue |
it's not the time to open up a new debate, but you do know that stonewall in its current guise is not uncontroversial. a great many companies, institutions and even universities have withdrawn their support for stonewall. personally i suspect it's tactic on some issues is to seek to be divisive. i would certainly now hesitate about supporting a stonewall campaign - in the past that wouldn't have been so. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 10:45 - Dec 3 with 4138 views | baxterbasics |
I think it's his choice not to get involved and it shouldn't be considered compulsory.
That said, the club citing religion as his justification was a mistake. I wonder if releasing a statement at all was a mistake too. Media attention seemed to spiral only after they did. Maybe it was heading that way anyway. |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 10:57 - Dec 3 with 4061 views | PhilTWTD |
That is a perspective which has been mooted previously when he hasn't worn the armband, the reaction to doing so in Egypt and the impact it might have on Samy and perhaps also his family. |  | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:01 - Dec 3 with 4008 views | PhilTWTD |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 10:45 - Dec 3 by baxterbasics |
I think it's his choice not to get involved and it shouldn't be considered compulsory.
That said, the club citing religion as his justification was a mistake. I wonder if releasing a statement at all was a mistake too. Media attention seemed to spiral only after they did. Maybe it was heading that way anyway. |
I think they had to make a statement. When national newspapers are asking questions, as they evidently were, stories would appear whether they commented or otherwise. In the circumstances the club used the opportunity to promote its LGBTQ+ activities, making it clear they don't support their captain's position without hanging him out to dry. It's a difficult position for the club to have been placed in. | | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:02 - Dec 3 with 3992 views | baxterbasics |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 10:57 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
That is a perspective which has been mooted previously when he hasn't worn the armband, the reaction to doing so in Egypt and the impact it might have on Samy and perhaps also his family. |
People think it's oh so easy to just dismiss and go against your family and cultural traditions in the name of principle. Forgetting that there can be real world consequences for doing so. We all like to think we can be brave and do the right thing in the face of overwhelming pressure. But many will flake out when faced with it. | |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:04 - Dec 3 with 3966 views | PhilTWTD |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:02 - Dec 3 by baxterbasics |
People think it's oh so easy to just dismiss and go against your family and cultural traditions in the name of principle. Forgetting that there can be real world consequences for doing so. We all like to think we can be brave and do the right thing in the face of overwhelming pressure. But many will flake out when faced with it. |
It's also something the club wouldn't be able to say in their statement. | | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:07 - Dec 3 with 3915 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:04 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
It's also something the club wouldn't be able to say in their statement. |
The club however could have prevented any issues with a simple change of captain.
The heat is on Morsy, which I get, I also do appreciate this thread, but the club itself has escaped criticism which imo is wrong as they could have easily prevented this. |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:08 - Dec 3 with 3905 views | bluelagos |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:04 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
It's also something the club wouldn't be able to say in their statement. |
My only comment am going to make:
Agree, but surely if the club simply let someone else captain the team (with rainbow armband) for a couple of games the whole thing is avoided.
As it stands, the story was on national radio this morning and have seen prominent stories on the BBC and Guardian websites.
Club have dropped a bollck imho |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:12 - Dec 3 with 3856 views | AndrewRatcliffITFC |
He's Egyptian..
He doesn't wear an armband
Thats ok he's his own man
He's Sam Morsy. | | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:14 - Dec 3 with 3836 views | PhilTWTD |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:08 - Dec 3 by bluelagos |
My only comment am going to make:
Agree, but surely if the club simply let someone else captain the team (with rainbow armband) for a couple of games the whole thing is avoided.
As it stands, the story was on national radio this morning and have seen prominent stories on the BBC and Guardian websites.
Club have dropped a bollck imho |
Yes, but they'd then have to explain the change of captain, which would open the can of worms in any case. | | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:19 - Dec 3 with 3760 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:07 - Dec 3 by FrimleyBlue |
The club however could have prevented any issues with a simple change of captain.
The heat is on Morsy, which I get, I also do appreciate this thread, but the club itself has escaped criticism which imo is wrong as they could have easily prevented this. |
Its a little bit different now though with the captains being the ones to speak to the refs, so switching captain has more of a real impact that just someone else wearing the armband.
I did think that though. You could argue we shouldn't have to, and 'the club' / decision makers would've wanted it kept away from the footballing side of things entirely which is probably why we didn't, but given Chaplin was starting anyway he could've captained us I guess. |  | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:26 - Dec 3 with 3696 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:14 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
Yes, but they'd then have to explain the change of captain, which would open the can of worms in any case. |
Better to explain why you've made a positive change to support something important, rather than ignore it and then defend a persons individual belief instead. | |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:40 - Dec 3 with 3626 views | LA_Tractor_Boy |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:01 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
I think they had to make a statement. When national newspapers are asking questions, as they evidently were, stories would appear whether they commented or otherwise. In the circumstances the club used the opportunity to promote its LGBTQ+ activities, making it clear they don't support their captain's position without hanging him out to dry. It's a difficult position for the club to have been placed in. |
Personally I think this has been blown out of all proportion.
Maybe the club still aren't used to this level of media attention. Let's face it, if we were still in League One or even the Championship nobody would bat an eyelid.
I just hope all this noise doesn't affect Morsy's performances. I'm a bit concerned that if Phillips and Cajuste are fit, McKenna may have considered resting Morsy tonight and starting him on the bench. Which is probably no longer an option as it would look like he had been dropped for not wearing the rainbow armband. | | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:51 - Dec 3 with 3528 views | Kievthegreat |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:14 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
Yes, but they'd then have to explain the change of captain, which would open the can of worms in any case. |
As Clive said, give it to Chaplin. Point out his work with the rainbow tractors and that it is a recognition of his community work with the LGBTQ community.
Maybe they did ask him, but I'd have asked Sam if he would be willing to give Chaplin the armband for the 2 games for the above reasons and frame it positively. |  | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 12:23 - Dec 3 with 3310 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:40 - Dec 3 by LA_Tractor_Boy |
Personally I think this has been blown out of all proportion.
Maybe the club still aren't used to this level of media attention. Let's face it, if we were still in League One or even the Championship nobody would bat an eyelid.
I just hope all this noise doesn't affect Morsy's performances. I'm a bit concerned that if Phillips and Cajuste are fit, McKenna may have considered resting Morsy tonight and starting him on the bench. Which is probably no longer an option as it would look like he had been dropped for not wearing the rainbow armband. |
Well, he's being doing it every year and nobody really commented on it(in the media). Definitely has been elevated because of prem status. |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 12:24 - Dec 3 with 3290 views | Illinoisblue |
Still, at least Newcastle are on board with the rainbow campaign. Their Saudi owners must surely approve. |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 12:29 - Dec 3 with 3243 views | bsw72 |
One thing I will add is not actively showing your support is not the same as actively showing you do not support . . .
I have seen multiple people get called out for not posting certain things on social media in regards to different movements, and frequently they are told they are part of the problem and are bad people for not actively advocating.
Maybe it is someone just living their life and not voicing social opinions about the different oppressions that go on in this world. People tend to advocate for things that effect them or they have an opinion over.
I've never heard Morsy actively criticise the LGTBQ (apologies if I miss letters) nor actively support - he may have his reasons, for example I wonder if he had an active voice in support it could have a negative impact on his family in Egypt etc.
Nothing is black and white, it's all about shades or grey, or in this case a spectrum of colours. |  | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 12:31 - Dec 3 with 3224 views | Ryorry |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 12:24 - Dec 3 by Illinoisblue |
Still, at least Newcastle are on board with the rainbow campaign. Their Saudi owners must surely approve. |
That's some neat point! |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 13:16 - Dec 3 with 2979 views | pointofblue |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:01 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
I think they had to make a statement. When national newspapers are asking questions, as they evidently were, stories would appear whether they commented or otherwise. In the circumstances the club used the opportunity to promote its LGBTQ+ activities, making it clear they don't support their captain's position without hanging him out to dry. It's a difficult position for the club to have been placed in. |
From my point of view, it should have been a personal statement from Morsy explaining his reasons, rather than a bland one from a faceless member of the club's PR team. | |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 13:40 - Dec 3 with 2887 views | sotd78 |
I think there was a case of stepping aside for this one game as captain. It would have been the judicious thing to have done. The club has gone back to dropping a knee this season; not something I think is worth a hoot personally but.... sometimes we seem to have to adhere to the collective decision-making - rather than allow too much individual choice. It is a conundrum. |  |
| Blue shirts/white shorts - sotd78 |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 13:45 - Dec 3 with 2857 views | blueasfook |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 11:01 - Dec 3 by PhilTWTD |
I think they had to make a statement. When national newspapers are asking questions, as they evidently were, stories would appear whether they commented or otherwise. In the circumstances the club used the opportunity to promote its LGBTQ+ activities, making it clear they don't support their captain's position without hanging him out to dry. It's a difficult position for the club to have been placed in. |
A wise move (IMO) may have been to give someone else the captaincy during this period. Morsy could hardly complain if he wasn't willing to support a nationwide campaign to support LGBTQ+ community. Out of interest, are there any other players who have refused to support it? I mean in any club, not just ours. |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 14:00 - Dec 3 with 2746 views | crouchendyachtclub |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 12:29 - Dec 3 by bsw72 |
One thing I will add is not actively showing your support is not the same as actively showing you do not support . . .
I have seen multiple people get called out for not posting certain things on social media in regards to different movements, and frequently they are told they are part of the problem and are bad people for not actively advocating.
Maybe it is someone just living their life and not voicing social opinions about the different oppressions that go on in this world. People tend to advocate for things that effect them or they have an opinion over.
I've never heard Morsy actively criticise the LGTBQ (apologies if I miss letters) nor actively support - he may have his reasons, for example I wonder if he had an active voice in support it could have a negative impact on his family in Egypt etc.
Nothing is black and white, it's all about shades or grey, or in this case a spectrum of colours. |
That isn't really an equivalency though is it.
As club captain he is part of the rainbow laces campaign and has actively opted out of it rather than passively not spoken about it.
If it isn't something he can support then he isn't club captain material imo. 10% of the population is LGBTQ. In all probability he's signalled to at least one squad member that he thinks less of them | | | |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 14:51 - Dec 3 with 2611 views | GeoffSentence |
| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 10:45 - Dec 3 by baxterbasics |
I think it's his choice not to get involved and it shouldn't be considered compulsory.
That said, the club citing religion as his justification was a mistake. I wonder if releasing a statement at all was a mistake too. Media attention seemed to spiral only after they did. Maybe it was heading that way anyway. |
I hate that there is implicit compunction around these sort of gestures. To me compelling people to join in, and attacking them if they don't want to, undermines the whole thing. It distracts from the message and makes those who support such gestures appear to be authoritarian bullies. |  |
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| Have you actually seen what Morsy is refusing to support.... on 16:19 - Dec 3 with 2417 views | Oldsmoker |
...or he might think that the Rainbow Laces campaign is promoting tolerance and acceptance of people with different lifestyles and beliefs and it would be a bit of a stretch for them to discriminate against Sam for having a different lifestyle and belief. |  |
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