| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. 17:09 - Feb 1 with 9022 views | ITFC_84 |
Should’ve just kept with the old guard and pocketed the £150m |  | | |  |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 19:50 - Feb 1 with 1549 views | itfckenty |
Tbh, we have no idea on how the "old guard" would have performed. But based on the players that have been kept and playing regularly enough, I doubt it would have been any better. Even out best Champ and L1 players are struggling. Leif gets caught out consistently and lost that attacking edge, morsys legs arent good enough. (Just to name a few)
Unfortunately the prem is just another beast. |  | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 19:52 - Feb 1 with 1531 views | Smoresy |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 18:48 - Feb 1 by Sarge |
Please explain why you believe it isn’t true. In the main we have replaced players from a Championship team that finished second with players from Championship teams that finished mid table. With the exception of Delap and Cajuste who came from Serie A, none of them have displayed any discernible increase in quality than the players who were already here. |
Szmodics was the Championship top scorer and named in the EFL "team of the year".
Greaves was the highest rated defender and named in the "team of the year".
Clarke was the third highest rated player.
Philogene was the fifth highest rated player.
Enciso has more quality and experience than Sarmiento.
This is O'Shea's third PL season as a starting CB. We conceded 57 goals last season. The most conceded by a top two team in Second Division history is 58 goals (defending wasn't a strong point last year in a much weaker division).
Cajuste and Phillips have fairly squeezed out Luongo, our #2 midfielder last season. They each have much more top flight experience than our other three combined.
Delap is Delap.
Muric had the highest save percentage in the PL last season, achieved over 10 games, and won the Championship in 22/23 as Burnley's #1 keeper. 101 points, 35 goals conceded. This season has been a disaster, sadly.
We've swapped good Championship players for the best Championship players and for struggling PL players. Unsurprisingly, the latter groups have mostly showed themselves to be worse than good PL players so far. They weren't worse than a similar standard team today but the result was crucial.
In chess terms, we've probably moved from an 1800 rating to a 2000 rating, but we've also moved from a 1600 rated league to a 2300 rated one. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 19:55 - Feb 1 with 1505 views | HighgateBlue |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 19:26 - Feb 1 by TractorFrog |
Our squad is stronger this year than last, but not £120 million stronger.
And the Leeds and Southampton squads last year were stronger than ours, but we still beat them. So it isn't just about having the most talented players. |
I think that's the very point the OP is making. We had a cohesive unit with team spirit, and it worked. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and paying over £100m to do so is really unfortunate. We may have supposedly stronger players on paper, but they have not formed a materially better team. 16 points from 24 games? I am far from convinced that our promotion squad would have achieved materially worse than that. Luton had more points after 24 games. That is woeful. |  | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:00 - Feb 1 with 1477 views | HighgateBlue |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 18:49 - Feb 1 by itfc_statman |
The recruitment has been poor and I see people blaming McKenna but ultimately we have Ashton and a recruitment department.
It's all very well recruiting top championship talent but if you don't take into account context and how they fit into a system you may as well not bother.
Most of our signings, particularly upon relegation, will have devalued.
We will have limited scope to work in the window in the summer for a Championship season - saving grace might be the lack of quality likely to be in the Champs next season. |
Talking of Ashton, we've not heard an awful lot from him lately. Maybe he's running towards adversity and away from the fans.
I think you may be right on the saving grace. Sunderland are 4th. If Jack Clarke was one of their best players, we have nothing to worry about from that division next year. It would just be nice if other teams didn't see Ashton coming like a kid in a sweet shop when it comes to scamming us for 4 Hermann Hreidarssons' worth every time we want to add another unproductive bang average Championship attacker to our bloated squad. At least Broadhead is finally getting a game I suppose, but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the transfer strategy. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:01 - Feb 1 with 1471 views | HighgateBlue |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 19:04 - Feb 1 by Smoresy |
Like Luton did? That would have made for a fun 25/26. 
We haven't spent it well enough for this league but I'm confident our 'rating' has improved a good deal. My worry is if finances will allow us to use this squad at the much inferior level next season, or if we'll be stripped of all the best bits. |
We're doing WORSE than Luton. I fail to see how doing worse than Luton having spent many times more can possibly be spun as a good thing. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:15 - Feb 1 with 1400 views | ITFC_84 |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 19:55 - Feb 1 by HighgateBlue |
I think that's the very point the OP is making. We had a cohesive unit with team spirit, and it worked. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and paying over £100m to do so is really unfortunate. We may have supposedly stronger players on paper, but they have not formed a materially better team. 16 points from 24 games? I am far from convinced that our promotion squad would have achieved materially worse than that. Luton had more points after 24 games. That is woeful. |
This exactly. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:15 - Feb 1 with 1398 views | backwaywhen |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 17:49 - Feb 1 by Sarge |
“so clearly we needed upgrading across the whole pitch!”
This is the point. We have not done this, we’ve just thrown huge sums of money around replacing rather than upgrading. If we’re all so certain that players from a promotion winning Championship side wouldn’t be good enough why can we not grasp that players from mid table Championship teams wouldn’t be either. |
That’s an excellent point you have made , yes they are good players we have bought in , but do not possess the commitment and team spirit that was installed in our group from last 2 years , McKenna rightly tweaked the div 1 squad to improve in the championship , has tried to do so again for Prem and thus far it is proving to be bl00dy hard , remember the whole club is on a very steep learning curve. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:18 - Feb 1 with 1392 views | DavoIPB |
This team is so much better than last season's team. Last season we were very lucky to win against Southampton, they were the better team. This year we were a lot better than them today just errors and lack strategy in last 30 cost us. | | | |
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:26 - Feb 1 with 1361 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 17:20 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
How is it going backwards?
Are you saying the championship side was better than the current one?
SB |
I’d say that our team last year would beat this one. It was far more cohesive, organised and driven. In fact we finished yards ahead of Hull where three of them played. |  |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:29 - Feb 1 with 1338 views | ITFC_84 |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:26 - Feb 1 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
I’d say that our team last year would beat this one. It was far more cohesive, organised and driven. In fact we finished yards ahead of Hull where three of them played. |
Would be an interesting match!
Muric
Johnson O’Shea Greaves Townsend
Phillips Cajuste
Philogene Encinso J Clarke
Delap
Hladky
Tuanzebe Woolf Cam Davis
Morsy Luongo
Broadhead Chaplin Hutch
Hirst
Last season wins doesn’t it? | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:35 - Feb 1 with 1323 views | BlueNode |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:00 - Feb 1 by HighgateBlue |
Talking of Ashton, we've not heard an awful lot from him lately. Maybe he's running towards adversity and away from the fans.
I think you may be right on the saving grace. Sunderland are 4th. If Jack Clarke was one of their best players, we have nothing to worry about from that division next year. It would just be nice if other teams didn't see Ashton coming like a kid in a sweet shop when it comes to scamming us for 4 Hermann Hreidarssons' worth every time we want to add another unproductive bang average Championship attacker to our bloated squad. At least Broadhead is finally getting a game I suppose, but that is hardly a ringing endorsement of the transfer strategy. |
I wouldn't underestimate the chumps, Its a very tough league and one underestimates it at their peril |  |
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:53 - Feb 1 with 1265 views | NedPlimpton |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 19:29 - Feb 1 by reusersfreekicks |
Davis, Walton, Broadhead, Burgess, Woolfenden, Chaplin, Tuanzebee, Morsy, Taylor have all stepped up |
Are you kidding?
4 of those started today and another came off the bench. None of those players are having a great season |  | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:59 - Feb 1 with 1223 views | Smoresy |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:01 - Feb 1 by HighgateBlue |
We're doing WORSE than Luton. I fail to see how doing worse than Luton having spent many times more can possibly be spun as a good thing. |
I don't understand HOW anyone could fail to appreciate the difference in standard between this division and the one below, honestly. Yes we have fewer points than Luton had at this stage, as do Southampton, Leicester and Wolves.
Does that mean these four teams are worse quality than Luton were last year? No. Much like Burnley and Sheffield United also weren't worse quality last year. What It means is that Luton were able to be put together a better underdog strategy. It wasn't a good enough strategy to come close to survival though and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.
We all share an obvious quality deficit. Consequently, we should all lose most of our games on paper; we would in a computer simulator. Spending £120m didn't move the needle sufficiently on paper for that to not be the case anymore, and sadly this is also proving true in reality.
Blasting the ball long à la Luton may have earned us a few more points, if we recruited with that strategy in mind, but it isn't the manager's style and the fans would have likely hated it and we likely wouldn't have survived anyway. Then in 25/26 we would have needed to rip up that strategy and start again, perhaps with a major clearout, because hoofers tend not to earn title-winning points totals.
At least this way we'll return to the Championship having applied the manager's principles all season, and suddenly we'll enter a league in which WE have an obvious quality surplus - unless we lose much of what we signed. If anyone has confused the above message and previous posts for being celebratory then that's on them - recruitment hasn't been good enough this season, bottom line, obvious point - but it isn't all doom and gloom either AND the team is better than last year. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 21:28 - Feb 1 with 1169 views | monkeymagic |
We’ve probably had an average outcome in terms of hits versus misses in the last two windows, having previously had a run of mostly hits. It seems to me that we had a go at survival (and still might do it) but were quite measured and didn’t risk long term financial damage in the event of relegation.
I think the only 2 buys which are likely to result in big losses are Muric and possibly Philogene. Most of the others fetch what we paid for them I reckon, and Delap might be 3 x value come the end of the season. Looking like we’re are going down but future still good and miles ahead of where we were only 3 years ago. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 21:29 - Feb 1 with 1160 views | textbackup |
Muric £8m wasted
Clarke £15m wtf
Omari £20m… probably be ok in the championship
Greaves £15m? Decent championship
O’Shea £15m very good signing
Philoene £20m chased for ages. Yeah whatever
Delap £15m good signing. Probably not the £100m player some think he is
4/10 transfers in terms of scouting and signings |  |
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 22:27 - Feb 1 with 1074 views | LA_Tractor_Boy |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 17:20 - Feb 1 by StokieBlue |
How is it going backwards?
Are you saying the championship side was better than the current one?
SB |
Because IMO our performances are getting worse.
If we hadn't signed a single player other than Delap, I think we'd be on a similar number of points. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 22:46 - Feb 1 with 1042 views | WicklowBlue |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 21:29 - Feb 1 by textbackup |
Muric £8m wasted
Clarke £15m wtf
Omari £20m… probably be ok in the championship
Greaves £15m? Decent championship
O’Shea £15m very good signing
Philoene £20m chased for ages. Yeah whatever
Delap £15m good signing. Probably not the £100m player some think he is
4/10 transfers in terms of scouting and signings |
Not sure Philogene can be judged yet, he's barely played any football this season and is adjusting to a new setup.
Winning is a habit as is losing, losing regularly takes its toll and impacts confidence. Confidence is key in all sports we just need to try and reset and hopefully get a bit of luck. |  | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 22:57 - Feb 1 with 999 views | pointofblue |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 20:53 - Feb 1 by NedPlimpton |
Are you kidding?
4 of those started today and another came off the bench. None of those players are having a great season |
Woolfenden and Burgess have both been more than adequate and we got them on a free/relative pittance. For me neither is £15m worse than O'Shea and Greaves. This is the issue. We've upgraded but not to the extent required. | |
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 01:40 - Feb 2 with 887 views | HonestyOReilly |
it’s not hard to see how da money has been wasted roit now is it remember dat fella Paul Hurst who relegated us in two or tree months he did it by buying da players from league below and they weren’t up to da job our recruitin in a few windows now has been a bit of a joke ey there’s been no tought to experience at all and if you didn’t know better you’d tink that just scattergunnin the league below for players that might get da club some money back when relegated was done so from a business perspective with no tought at all as to what might be needed to stay up our hit rate on signinz is a disgrace no joke what a shambles ey | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 02:08 - Feb 2 with 877 views | E_I_E_I_E_I_O |
I suggested before the season that less could equal more and that just 4/5 signing could mean keeping the team spirit which helped so much and with those 4 or 5 adding to what we had rather than overhaul. Most disagreed and hindsight is a wonderful thing but it’s hard to see we had less points that what we currently have. Even now people say we need more players but that simply isn’t the answer. Our cohesion is not good and even if we sign so called better players for the near future at least that won’t help on that front. | | | |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 02:25 - Feb 2 with 868 views | radiogaga |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 17:14 - Feb 1 by itfcsuth |
Will be our downfall, we’ve got it horribly wrong, and continue to follow suit in the January window with Philogene.
In no way are these bad footballers being bought in, but they’ve certainly cost a few quid, and have not improved the group anywhere near enough, if at all. |
We’ve probably got recruitment for this season wrong, relative to the level we are at right now and if the ambition was that we MUST stay up, which is most certainly not the case. My mate is a Sheffield United fan and pre warned me that the Prem is a horrible experience and that unless you flagrantly cheat the league as Forest did, a newly promoted club stands little chance of staying up, which is hard to disagree with him.
The one that vexes me the most is that Kalvin Phillips has, with respect, been a total waste of wages and a loan space as McKenna continually plays Morsy ahead of him/ he has had no chance of building a decent run of momentum when he is in and out of the team like he has been. Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but when you see Ramsdale in goal for them yesterday there is a sense that we missed a big opportunity by not going in for him on a season long over spending £8m-£10m on Muric - I have considerable sympathy for Muric - he’s not been good enough but the current situation is also far from his fault alone.
As dark as it feels in this moment, as there is a lot of anger and disappointment after yesterday, I have to at least trust that the current squad (less inevitable departures such as Leif and Delap/ the loanees returning, and hopefully some sensible recruitment around that) should really give us a strong chance of doing really well in the championship next season, and in reality the group of last season was unlikely to repeat what they achieved last season again. Guys like Philogene and Jack Clarke will look totally different players at that level. This season was all about giving it a go to stay up whilst also having one eye on ‘going back down with a squad that natural ability wise has a higher ceiling’.
The money spent doesn’t concern me so much - transfer fees are grossly inflated now, so in the grander scheme it’s not an outrageous sum in relation to where we are. If we didn’t invest, fans would also have been annoyed. Delap will recoup a decent amount of money, as will Leif if and when we go down. All our signings are of a good age, and on the whole the transfer fees we’ve paid do not scream of being horrendously overpriced (O Shea at £10m, Szmodics at £10m, Jack Clarke at £10m certainly next season will prove to be fair value, Philogene at £20m was very impressive for Hull last season and it’s too early to judge that one but I’m also not sure he brings a lot for the rest of this season sadly, Hutchinson is an England U21 and will undoubtedly have suitors. Greaves has struggled at collective spells in the Prem but again will be another that should thrive next season. Ogbene when fit and running again will be a really good low risk signing that will comfortably be a good champ player and £8m was not ridiculously inflated for a guy that played regularly for Luton last year). A lot has to go wrong next season for us to not strongly challenge to go back up. The fact that 2 bench and bit part players have gone on loan to the championship on loan very easily (1 to the 2nd placed team and goes straight into the team, and the other to Stoke having had a move to a play off challenger break down) goes to show that we have a lot more muscle for next season than we perhaps realise when we keep coming up against the quality on players we are facing this season. There will however be a lot of pressure on Ashton and Co in the summer.
Saying “pocket the money would have been better” I simply cannot agree with this. As a club we have tried to be resourceful by signing the best champ players and also relegated players who played well in poor teams last season. No disgrace in that. The reality is grim, that this league is just now very very hard to break through the ceiling to survive and grow. It’s important that next season or 2 after relegation we make it back up, in which case the money we have spent this season will have proven to not be a bad spend.
We need to take a moment to breathe and accept that two windows to evolve a team that conceded 57 goals in the championship last season into a team capable of staying in the premier league has been a step too far. The Prem is depressing to watch your team struggle week in week out, but next season should be a very different scenario in a lot of respects. It hurts that we are not good enough at this moment in time, and fans are allowed to feel disappointed. [Post edited 2 Feb 3:07]
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 07:34 - Feb 2 with 661 views | smithy69 |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 21:29 - Feb 1 by textbackup |
Muric £8m wasted
Clarke £15m wtf
Omari £20m… probably be ok in the championship
Greaves £15m? Decent championship
O’Shea £15m very good signing
Philoene £20m chased for ages. Yeah whatever
Delap £15m good signing. Probably not the £100m player some think he is
4/10 transfers in terms of scouting and signings |
I’m muting you. You are worse than frimmers by a country mile. I actually can’t believe you’re a town fan with your constant negative drivel. Would hate to live in your house. Must be like prison [Post edited 2 Feb 9:04]
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 08:48 - Feb 2 with 557 views | ITFCBlues |
| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 22:57 - Feb 1 by pointofblue |
Woolfenden and Burgess have both been more than adequate and we got them on a free/relative pittance. For me neither is £15m worse than O'Shea and Greaves. This is the issue. We've upgraded but not to the extent required. |
I agree to some extent, but the issue that to improve to the requires level in this division costs far more than 120m, especially when you're already building from a championship/L1 Base which gave us an even bigger mountain to climb that the other 2 promopted sides.
As hard as it is now, we will be in a far stronger position next season than we were when we went up, which was in all honesty a miracle season. |  |
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| Imagine spending £120m and being a worse team than last year. on 09:02 - Feb 2 with 541 views | DJR |
Let's get a sense of perspective.
According to the following article from October, we are bottom by a long way in terms of squad cost in the Premier League. And it's not just a case of the starting 11, other teams are able to turn games and switch tactics by bringing on top quality subs. Indeed, even yesterday their No. 20 whose cut inside and shot led to the second goal looked a very good player, and he only played the last 20 minutes.
https://www.planetfootball.com/premier-league/premier-league-squad-cost-2024-25-
1. Chelsea – €1.26billion
2. Manchester United – €1.038billion
3. Manchester City – €1.017billion
4. Arsenal – €798million
5. Tottenham – €787million
6. Liverpool – €735million
7. Newcastle United – €683million
8. Aston Villa – €475million
9. Brighton – €433million
10. Wolves – €426million
11. West Ham – €414million
12. Nottingham Forest – €398million
13. Bournemouth – €364million
14. Leicester City – €317million
15. Crystal Palace – €311million
16. Southampton – €308million
17. Brentford – €306million
18. Fulham – €293million
19. Everton – €291million
20. Ipswich – €166million [Post edited 2 Feb 9:11]
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