| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah 20:24 - Sep 10 with 16611 views | ElderGrizzly |
Was speaking at a University event and appears to have been shot (from distance) in the neck.
And actually shot, not the Donald Trump kind.
Horrific whatever your political views and has no place in politics
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:55 - Sep 11 with 1224 views | Blueschev |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:47 - Sep 11 by TownieRob |
I’ve always understood a fascist to be someone who silences or punishes opposing views, and is intolerant of different opinions. He did none of those, in fact, he welcomed debate. So calling him a fascist just doesn’t add up in my opinion. |
That is the opposite of what he did. He didn't welcome debate, he bastardised it in order to appear as though he was always smarter than his opponents. He was an affront to honest debate and free speech. |  | | |
| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:00 - Sep 11 with 1181 views | Bloots |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:28 - Sep 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I stayed off this thread until I saw your post. Most of the posts from what I would call 'left leaning posters' have been reasonably measured and thoughtful. Opposing Charlie Kirk's politics whilst at the same time showing sympathy for his young family and saying that violence is not the answer. Sadly one or two are justifying his murder which is absolutely disgusting and a couple of others staring into conspiracy theory crankery.
I also think there is a massive overreaction that this could lead to civil war. America has been through much darker times in recent history. McCarthy hearings of the 1950's,the assassinations of Jack and Bobby Kenedy and Martin Luther King in the 1960's, followed by the Killing of unarmed students in Ohio in the ealy 1970's.
America got through these dark times because they are, in the majority, decent human beings.
I posted a few weeks ago how I had spent the best part of a month driving over 4,000 miles through 20 States.I'll post it again because I simply don't recognise the American people being portrayed online.
Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska by GlasgowBlue 16 Aug 7:53Ok, I’m going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and I’ve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didn’t particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we aren’t as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldn’t bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Biden’s mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasn’t somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesn’t need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said “elect a clown expect a circus” with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldn’t have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and I’ve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
I’d not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasn’t sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But I’m glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there.
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….most of the replies from the “lefties” on this thread start off with something like “obviously it’s terrible and it can’t be condoned” and then is swiftly followed by “but if someone is gonna chat sh1t then…..”.
Then it just descends into the usual aggressive, boring, pompous, rhetoric.
Both extremes of the political spectrum continue to promote their personal causes through nothing more than abuse, whataboutery and now extreme violence.
It would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous. |  |
| "GSTK" - TWTD User (Sept 2025) |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:02 - Sep 11 with 1149 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
Let's be clear, he was far right.
That doesnt mean we all would necessarily disagree with everything he said, but most of us a great deal of it certainly.
Sure he welcomed debate, but within that debate he presented a lot of things as fact that may not have been as true as he made out. Turning up armed with figures to suit your agenda to argue with a bunch of college kids who are not blessed with the same access to resources that Turning point had, that do not debate full time rather unevens the playing field. Charlie struggled rather more and engaged rather less with people who were truly well informed.
Violence is never the answer and advocating for death is Citezen Smithesque nonsense that harks back to a very different time, in a very different setting compared to what is a democratic society.
All for power to the people but until Trump is an unselected dictator all this Violence has achieved is to further his agenda and heavily deflect from the very issues that were starting to bog him down. If anything this strengthens MAGA, Trump, the republican part and general nuttiness across the pond.
Agree with him or not a man had his life taken away and that is something none of us should celebrate, though nor should we have to feel the need to mourn him. All that does highlight what a messed up world we live in and underlines that we must all try and be better as much as we can.
Peace and love, peace and love. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:05 - Sep 11 with 1102 views | ShortyBlue92 |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:02 - Sep 11 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Let's be clear, he was far right.
That doesnt mean we all would necessarily disagree with everything he said, but most of us a great deal of it certainly.
Sure he welcomed debate, but within that debate he presented a lot of things as fact that may not have been as true as he made out. Turning up armed with figures to suit your agenda to argue with a bunch of college kids who are not blessed with the same access to resources that Turning point had, that do not debate full time rather unevens the playing field. Charlie struggled rather more and engaged rather less with people who were truly well informed.
Violence is never the answer and advocating for death is Citezen Smithesque nonsense that harks back to a very different time, in a very different setting compared to what is a democratic society.
All for power to the people but until Trump is an unselected dictator all this Violence has achieved is to further his agenda and heavily deflect from the very issues that were starting to bog him down. If anything this strengthens MAGA, Trump, the republican part and general nuttiness across the pond.
Agree with him or not a man had his life taken away and that is something none of us should celebrate, though nor should we have to feel the need to mourn him. All that does highlight what a messed up world we live in and underlines that we must all try and be better as much as we can.
Peace and love, peace and love. |
“Far right”
You are very stupid |  | | |
| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:11 - Sep 11 with 1038 views | Luk38644 |
| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:00 - Sep 11 by Bloots |
….most of the replies from the “lefties” on this thread start off with something like “obviously it’s terrible and it can’t be condoned” and then is swiftly followed by “but if someone is gonna chat sh1t then…..”.
Then it just descends into the usual aggressive, boring, pompous, rhetoric.
Both extremes of the political spectrum continue to promote their personal causes through nothing more than abuse, whataboutery and now extreme violence.
It would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous. |
Spot on - it's as if some people can't possibly conceive an opposing viewpoint so smear anyone that has one.
People calling him a fascist/nazi or whatever, he openly encouraged debate of opposing views and has now had his views forcibly suppressed... the actual definition of fascism. |  | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:12 - Sep 11 with 1023 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:48 - Sep 11 by DJR |
Whilst (as John Donne once wrote) "each man's death diminishes me", I struggle to see why the killing in the US of someone I have never heard of, in a country where guns deaths are commonplace, and where the motives of the killer are unknown, is dominating the headlines in this country.
I suppose it is just a further example of culture war issues originating in the US and then being played out here. [Post edited 11 Sep 10:51]
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Really? You struggle to see it? That says more about you than the country if that is genuinely true. It did allow you to shoehorn 'culture wars' into your post though which always goes over well doesn't it? |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:14 - Sep 11 with 991 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:15 - Sep 11 by DanTheMan |
Whilst I understand what you're saying, I think my thoughts on this are best summed up by Dean Withers.
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I agree with every word he said there- it’s understandable as someone who came into direct contact with Kirk that he had an emotional response, it’s also understandable that people who haven’t had that personal interaction don’t feel sorrow for a quasi-fascist being murdered.
People are complex-
While I don’t feel sorry for Charlie Kirk as an individual, I think it’s sad that there’s kids out there who will no longer grow up with a Dad,
that should go without saying and I think it does detract from the point somewhat.
I’ve seen a number of posts pop up trying to claim he wasn’t far right, nor a quasi-fascist, no point engaging with people so deep in the mire. |  | | |
| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:17 - Sep 11 with 958 views | noggin |
| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:11 - Sep 11 by Luk38644 |
Spot on - it's as if some people can't possibly conceive an opposing viewpoint so smear anyone that has one.
People calling him a fascist/nazi or whatever, he openly encouraged debate of opposing views and has now had his views forcibly suppressed... the actual definition of fascism. |
I'd never heard of him before today but it seems he considered his own murder, an acceptable consequence of gun ownership in the states. He was openly racist so not someone the 'decent' world will miss. |  |
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| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:19 - Sep 11 with 937 views | Libero |
| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:17 - Sep 11 by noggin |
I'd never heard of him before today but it seems he considered his own murder, an acceptable consequence of gun ownership in the states. He was openly racist so not someone the 'decent' world will miss. |
That’s going to upset the ‘he encouraged debate’ crowd… [Post edited 11 Sep 11:22]
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:22 - Sep 11 with 902 views | DJR |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:12 - Sep 11 by J2BLUE |
Really? You struggle to see it? That says more about you than the country if that is genuinely true. It did allow you to shoehorn 'culture wars' into your post though which always goes over well doesn't it? |
Thanks for the insult.
Maybe I am alone in this but I think it is very odd that this has, for example, relegated to a footnote an attack by Russia on Poland, which is I believe the first attack on a NATO member ever.
As it is, culture wars cut two way as this thread perhaps goes to prove, and I have not commented at all on the issues which others have raised.
I would just conclude by saying that issues such as the NHS, social care and the precarious position of the courts system just don't seem to get a look in these days, whether in the media or on TWTD. [Post edited 11 Sep 11:29]
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| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:23 - Sep 11 with 881 views | bartyg |
| Hmmmm, not sure about that my friend…. on 11:11 - Sep 11 by Luk38644 |
Spot on - it's as if some people can't possibly conceive an opposing viewpoint so smear anyone that has one.
People calling him a fascist/nazi or whatever, he openly encouraged debate of opposing views and has now had his views forcibly suppressed... the actual definition of fascism. |
Not quite, he hasn't been silenced by the state has he? |  | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:25 - Sep 11 with 846 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:05 - Sep 11 by ShortyBlue92 |
“Far right”
You are very stupid |
Which of his anti abortion, transpobic, racist, gun toting so what if some high school kids get shot views do you think were centrist?
Stephen Yaxley Lennon is a leftie i presume. [Post edited 11 Sep 11:26]
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:30 - Sep 11 with 781 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:22 - Sep 11 by DJR |
Thanks for the insult.
Maybe I am alone in this but I think it is very odd that this has, for example, relegated to a footnote an attack by Russia on Poland, which is I believe the first attack on a NATO member ever.
As it is, culture wars cut two way as this thread perhaps goes to prove, and I have not commented at all on the issues which others have raised.
I would just conclude by saying that issues such as the NHS, social care and the precarious position of the courts system just don't seem to get a look in these days, whether in the media or on TWTD. [Post edited 11 Sep 11:29]
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It's because you are an intelligent poster and I really don't believe you struggle to see why this will be news for a few days until the media get bored and go on to something else. The Poland thing is the usual Russian games.
I just cannot stand how anything you don't like is dismissed as culture wars. And yes, on the other side, anything they don't like is dismissed as woke nonsense. Oh sh1t, i've just both sided it haven't I? I am the worst of all. I will go and whip myself to repent.
(Last bit not aimed at you personally) | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:40 - Sep 11 with 685 views | DJR |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:30 - Sep 11 by J2BLUE |
It's because you are an intelligent poster and I really don't believe you struggle to see why this will be news for a few days until the media get bored and go on to something else. The Poland thing is the usual Russian games.
I just cannot stand how anything you don't like is dismissed as culture wars. And yes, on the other side, anything they don't like is dismissed as woke nonsense. Oh sh1t, i've just both sided it haven't I? I am the worst of all. I will go and whip myself to repent.
(Last bit not aimed at you personally) |
I certainly realise it will be milked for all that it's worth but I was using culture wars in the following sense, when the expression came back into use in the US in a different sense to an earlier use.
"James Davison Hunter, a sociologist at the University of Virginia, introduced the expression again in his 1991 publication, Culture Wars: The Struggle to Define America. Hunter described what he saw as a dramatic realignment and polarization that had transformed American politics and culture. He argued that on an increasing number of "hot-button" defining issues—abortion, gun politics, separation of church and state, privacy, recreational drug use, homosexuality, censorship—there existed two definable polarities. Furthermore, not only were there a number of divisive issues, but society had divided along essentially the same lines on these issues, so as to constitute two warring groups, defined primarily not by nominal religion, ethnicity, social class, or even political affiliation, but rather by ideological world-views. Hunter characterized this polarity as stemming from opposite impulses, toward what he referred to as Progressivism and as Orthodoxy."
Used in this sense, it is not a loaded expression. [Post edited 11 Sep 11:47]
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:46 - Sep 11 with 636 views | giant_stow |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:40 - Sep 11 by DJR |
I certainly realise it will be milked for all that it's worth but I was using culture wars in the following sense, when the expression came back into use in the US in a different sense to an earlier use.
"James Davison Hunter, a sociologist at the University of Virginia, introduced the expression again in his 1991 publication, Culture Wars: The Struggle to Define America. Hunter described what he saw as a dramatic realignment and polarization that had transformed American politics and culture. He argued that on an increasing number of "hot-button" defining issues—abortion, gun politics, separation of church and state, privacy, recreational drug use, homosexuality, censorship—there existed two definable polarities. Furthermore, not only were there a number of divisive issues, but society had divided along essentially the same lines on these issues, so as to constitute two warring groups, defined primarily not by nominal religion, ethnicity, social class, or even political affiliation, but rather by ideological world-views. Hunter characterized this polarity as stemming from opposite impulses, toward what he referred to as Progressivism and as Orthodoxy."
Used in this sense, it is not a loaded expression. [Post edited 11 Sep 11:47]
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Must admit, its news to me that "culture war" could possibly be considered a loaded term - I always took it / used it as per your quote.
*if* its loaded, what's the preferred neutral term? |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:47 - Sep 11 with 619 views | baxterbasics |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:25 - Sep 11 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Which of his anti abortion, transpobic, racist, gun toting so what if some high school kids get shot views do you think were centrist?
Stephen Yaxley Lennon is a leftie i presume. [Post edited 11 Sep 11:26]
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Part of the issue here is lumping certain positions into a 'right-wing' bucket (just as those on the other side do similar for 'left-wing') which just reduces the terms left and right to generic insults for people you think are no good. Like it's not possible to be left wing and racist, or right wing and care about the environment. To me it always just defined what role you think government should have in the economy and the detail of peoples lives. You can be an A-hole on either side. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:58 - Sep 11 with 530 views | textbackup |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 23:05 - Sep 10 by Swailsey |
Dude…
I’ve defended you on here and have a lot of time for you, but that’s a really awful take, really inhumane. |
Inhumane is to carry out atrocious attacks or crimes (IMO) it’s not inhumane to not care. I could lie and say I do, but it won’t change anything.
I’ve many things I care about, whats happening there isn’t on my list. It doesn’t offend me, or worry me, if people don’t care about the hundreds of dogs that get mistreated daily, or that we’ve not seen a single mention of the poor Ukrainian girl murdered in the US (if the shoe was on the other foot… wow, I wonder the outcome) so I don’t see why anyone cares that I don’t care.
Since the attack on the music festival by those barbaric cnts my only thoughts have been for those beautiful souls who were freely enjoying their lives. Who were then brutally attacked, murdered, raped… I do wonder if we’d be seeing these scenes in Gaza if that incident hadn’t occurred (I guess we’ll never know) |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:07 - Sep 11 with 461 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:58 - Sep 11 by textbackup |
Inhumane is to carry out atrocious attacks or crimes (IMO) it’s not inhumane to not care. I could lie and say I do, but it won’t change anything.
I’ve many things I care about, whats happening there isn’t on my list. It doesn’t offend me, or worry me, if people don’t care about the hundreds of dogs that get mistreated daily, or that we’ve not seen a single mention of the poor Ukrainian girl murdered in the US (if the shoe was on the other foot… wow, I wonder the outcome) so I don’t see why anyone cares that I don’t care.
Since the attack on the music festival by those barbaric cnts my only thoughts have been for those beautiful souls who were freely enjoying their lives. Who were then brutally attacked, murdered, raped… I do wonder if we’d be seeing these scenes in Gaza if that incident hadn’t occurred (I guess we’ll never know) |
I think it was George Carlin who said something like if you're not directly involved in it then horrible things can be entertaining. Not saying that's what you are saying but it's a similar belief of why bother caring if it doesn't impact you and if you can't do anything about it.
You're not alone. 24 hour news is thriving for a reason.
I think one of the reasons Corbyn lost the election was the party conference being full of Palestinian flag waving when most people didn't really pay any attention to it. [Post edited 11 Sep 12:09]
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:11 - Sep 11 with 439 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:05 - Sep 11 by Libero |
Read some history, this is par for the course, sadly.
I always find the ‘violence isn’t the answer’ thing interesting, especially when the record shows that violence is essential in removing any kind of fascist organisation from positions of power.
Things will get worse before they get better, for sure. |
Maybe I should have been more specific - THIS kind of violence. Because shooting a political commentator is going to do precisely nothing to remove a fascist organisation from power. In fact if anything it'll embolden them. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:18 - Sep 11 with 399 views | Sarge |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:35 - Sep 11 by J2BLUE |
Showing empathy for his family including two young kids who now don't have a dad. |
Empathy? Pah!
“Empathy is a made-up new-age term that actually does a lot of damage.” - Charlie Kirk | | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:23 - Sep 11 with 365 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:11 - Sep 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Maybe I should have been more specific - THIS kind of violence. Because shooting a political commentator is going to do precisely nothing to remove a fascist organisation from power. In fact if anything it'll embolden them. |
Again, it's not unique in history - I wish I could remember the guy's name but there was a Nazi mouthpiece who befell the same fate. | | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:27 - Sep 11 with 334 views | textbackup |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 07:42 - Sep 11 by noggin |
"Gaza and what is happening is of absolutely no interest to me"
Yet people fleeing war and persecution, does interest you? |
Yes, I’m sure every single one of them is fleeing war and/or persecution. How wet must one be to believe that. | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:27 - Sep 11 with 334 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:58 - Sep 11 by textbackup |
Inhumane is to carry out atrocious attacks or crimes (IMO) it’s not inhumane to not care. I could lie and say I do, but it won’t change anything.
I’ve many things I care about, whats happening there isn’t on my list. It doesn’t offend me, or worry me, if people don’t care about the hundreds of dogs that get mistreated daily, or that we’ve not seen a single mention of the poor Ukrainian girl murdered in the US (if the shoe was on the other foot… wow, I wonder the outcome) so I don’t see why anyone cares that I don’t care.
Since the attack on the music festival by those barbaric cnts my only thoughts have been for those beautiful souls who were freely enjoying their lives. Who were then brutally attacked, murdered, raped… I do wonder if we’d be seeing these scenes in Gaza if that incident hadn’t occurred (I guess we’ll never know) |
Hang on.
So you care about those innocent people who were murdered in Israel (which we all should, it was horrendous) but not the innocent Palestinian people who are being murdered daily (which we all should it was horrendous) That seems odd to me ? Why would one group of innocent people be more worthy of care than the other?
"I do wonder if we’d be seeing these scenes in Gaza if that incident hadn’t occurred (I guess we’ll never know)" We sort of do know, the attacks on Gaza didnt start after the musical festival. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:30 - Sep 11 with 310 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:18 - Sep 11 by Sarge |
Empathy? Pah!
“Empathy is a made-up new-age term that actually does a lot of damage.” - Charlie Kirk |
Oh well feck them then, let's all camp outside their house and yell at his kids that daddy deserved to get shot. | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:31 - Sep 11 with 282 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:23 - Sep 11 by Libero |
Again, it's not unique in history - I wish I could remember the guy's name but there was a Nazi mouthpiece who befell the same fate. |
I didn't say it was unique in history. Now back to what I actually said - how is shooting a political commentator going to bring down a facist regime (rather than, as I've suggested, emboldening it)? | |
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